ZLIB for .NET is available for download here:
http://www.componentace.com/zlib_.NET.htm
The license is BSD.
dfghdfgh
[WebMethod]
public Northwind.CategoriesDataTable CategoriesDataSet()
{
Northwind.CategoriesDataTable tbl = new Northwind.CategoriesDataTable();
NorthwindTableAdapters.CategoriesTableAdapter ad = new NorthwindTableAdapters.CategoriesTableAdapter();
ad.Fill(tbl);
return tbl;
}
....
<mx:DataGrid id="tbl" dataProvider="{ws.CategoriesDataSet.lastResult.diffgram.DocumentElement.Categories}">
<mx:columns>
<mx:DataGridColumn headerText="Column 1" dataField="CategoryID"/>
<mx:DataGridColumn headerText="Column 2" dataField="CategoryName"/>
<mx:DataGridColumn headerText="Column 3" dataField="Description"/>
</mx:columns>
</mx:DataGrid>
Well, you should never actually render the "&" character directly anyhow. It should always be &.
Hmmmm, I posted this bug a few months ago at asp.net forum and the Atlas team replied that it will be fixed in the next release.
Have you seen what Midnight Coders are doing with their WebORB for .NET? It appears to be a native implementation of Flex Data Services in .NET. See their website at: http://www.themidnightcoders.com
Do you have any posts on your Macromedia stuff?
well, no, it's nota causing a string concatenation to break. the problem is that the head element is included in a partial postback response (if it has runat="server") and its content is not escaped on a cdata section. since the partial postback response is an xml message and you're using one of the "forbidden" xml chars...yep, you'll get a badly formed xml message on the server which won't be processed by the client portion of the framework.
This fix was released a while back. : http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=915782
Just call MSFT support via the toll free number and the customer service rep will send you the fix.
Blogging came after my MM Generator days, you can see my Generator forum posts here.
http://groups.google.co.uk/groups/search?hl=en&q=Andrew+Stopford&qt_s=Search
and web links
http://www.flashcentral.com/Tech/And/Generator.htm
http://cfdj.sys-con.com/read/42029.htm
Even though I don't have to, I will gladly pay $95 to use TD.Net for my personal development projects.
Daron explanation is nice...but wrong
see Marting Fowler's explanation @ http://www.martinfowler.com/eaaDev/ModelViewPresenter.html
Arnon
I contributed some sections to the book too, so you can add me to the list of contributors you know. ;)
No what you mean. Take a look at doxygen http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/
If you point it at your source code it produces great documentaion. It also has some other rich features and custom tags
I contributed too with a chapter about BusyBoxDotNet. Is it really a a life's ambition to write in a O'Really book?! That sounds very good ;)
After my post on documentation tools and the news that MS had a NDoc style tool up it&#39;s sleeve comes
Andrew,
For this CTP release we will not include any MS Build task. We are look at this as feature for future release. Please feel free to email me directly (aramATmicrosoftDOTcom)if you have additional questions or feature requests.
Anand..
You can follow the posts in this thread, but I know a *lot* of people are anxiously awaiting the release
I will build one as soon as I can get my hands on a copy of it.
I'm not so sure I entirely agree with you on this one.
Like you, I don't publish my blogroll as a permanent fixture on my blog. No point in saying "This is my clique".
However, I do find value in occasionally highlighting blogs that catch your attention above the norm. For example, that was one reason I tried to start a meme around that: http://haacked.com/archive/2005/09/23/Top10RecentBlogs.aspx
I think it is a good way to help others find blogs they wouldn't otherwise find. Although, I do like trying to take the appproach of highlighting blogs *other* than just your top 10.
I'll cover you ;-)
I'm pretty suprised by your comment. Did you listen to the show? He clearly said that he had 1500 blogs, had gotten it down to 600 or so and just wanted to give an example of some he reads ever day in order to highlight a few. He didn't publish it as a "list"
Phil\Sam,
Thanks for the comments, Scott may have a mighty blog list, he may gotten it down to 600 and he may have shown the list as key examples but....I don't believe in trying to show key blogs when every blog has value. Like you both I believe in showing items from blogs from all over the blog world that have value, rather than any one blog. I understand that Scott was showing some key examples of what he reads and that's cool but my preferance would have been showing key posts from his blog list, bringing focus to those posts.
Andy
> don't believe in trying to show key blogs when every blog has value.
Does it? There a lot of blogs that talk complete ***. In fact, the noise drafs the signal and for many people they need a guide to blogs that provide consistent signal value. I'm not saying it was the ultimate list of that but someone's observations unformally.
The FxCop add-in now lives on Tigris. I agree there's much to be improved. I'll be looking into it more this week. I hope to release a new version soon.
Please let me know if you have any suggestions for improvement. =)
Sam,
The nature of blogging is to blog what you want when you want, different people obtain different values from posts. Some folks may find it *** others may find it useful, different levels of ability exist within our community and not everyone is elite. Let me bring to attention the one guy that values posts from as many sources that he can.
http://jasonhaley.com/blog/
I value everyone in the community's blogs. I link to everyone and I was doing it way before Jason. I don't understand the reference to elitist. I have spent the last five years trying to build community.
All, I was saying is that Scott just had 20 minutes or so to informally mention some fave blogs that he goes back to every day. It wasn't meant to de-value any one else or their contributions. For instance, you weren't on it but does that make your blog any less? Of course not. You have been one of the biggest contributers to the community and I have linked to you consistently through the years.
I feel like we may be talking past one another. I appreciate *anyone* who takes the initative to start writing about their experiences.
Do have any examples where the web service returns XML?
The folks over at TheCodeproject have a rudimentary GUI for sandcastle --> http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?msg=1602333#xx1602333xx
hi!
I've tried this IDE and I think Web Designer is better than Aptana, and I don´t know where Atlas is in Aptana. furthermore, Aptana is based in Eclipse, and I don´t like it. :-)
bye!
I decided to take on the task of writing a MSBuild script for Sandcastle. Have a look at it if you're interested!
http://blog.ljusberg.com/2006/07/msbuild-script-for-sandcastle.html
/Anders
An IDE without Asp.Net support and you would like to see Atlas support :)
That kinda sounds funny :P
Seriously though, it looks nice for a javascript IDE and thats basicly what it is.
Yes - Sandcastle on Codeplex is a brilliant idea. Every time you check in a change to your class library it updates the documentation..I like it!
looking forward to it
I have found something on www.netbpm.org. I would appreciate your feedback on trying to use it.
Thomas Murphy on Team Edition for Database Professionals CTP5 is around the corner. Eric Jarvi on...
Thanx it worked
There is no impact.
There is an impact on the agile approach to the remote worker. Remote work just does not work.
Thomas can you expand on what you mean, what impact and why does remote work not work?
I just added a Visual Studio plugin to the above-mentioned build script. Try it out if you're brave!
http://blog.ljusberg.com/2006/08/sandcastle-visual-studio-project.html
Andrew raises the question: What is the impact of the remote worker on Agile approaches?A couple of months
One point you have with people in one room is the informal information exchange. Overhearing conversations, meeting for a coffee. That simply gets eliminated. Tools like VNC do not work properly on a multi monitor setup - you can share basically one. Plus chat is a lot slower than audio, and struggling for keyboard control for virtual pair programming is a pain - you miss all the feedback of the otherguy just taking the keyboard.
In my experience is just does not work. We are eliminating remote work for most positions as a result. Agile methods work best if you have - well - a TEAM that has all these informal communication channels open.
I really think it depends on the size of the dev team, and the level of communication with the remoters. I have had a lot of experience with this and it has seemed that it is all too esy to forget the remote folks. In agile, change is a constant as we all know.
I think the remoter takes the brunt of work fallout when communication is "sub par", yet the team feels it in the end. What I mean by this is that without solid communication a certain amount of retooling could occur on the dev side for the remoters if the had missed something through the products evolution. This is all to easy to do. In the long run, the entire team could take a hit due to this incurred cost of retooling in lost time.
It really depends on how good of a project manager, if there is one, is at the reins. They typiclly are the one that needs to be flying at full bore to assure that everyone is on the same page.
I have witnessed it work in many cases, but have seen and felt a lot of frustration with virtual teams as well. It definitely requires a lot more of a team than if you are sitting right next to everyone else. It is all to easy for something to get "lost in translation" when you are not face to face.
I regards to the impact of time, you really can't gauge it without project scope clearly identified. In a perfect scenario, it has no impact, but more likely than not, the timeline will be longer without a doubt due to the additional energy that needs to go into communicating.
Some rules of thumb that I have found that helps:
1) don't forget the remoters (obviously)
2) for agressive projects, daily status meetings are critical.
3) Instant Messanger... nuff said...
4) GoToMeeting, or the like (they are money well spent). Far more people are visual not conceptual.
5) To address Thomas Tomiczek comment, implement a Time Tracking application. I like using one purely for a CYA purpose.
Here is a good read,
<a href='http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:6kO0qt50-wYJ:www.agiledevelopmentconference.com/2003/files/R12Paper.pdf+development+agile+virtual+teams+remote&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1'>Agile Development and Remote Teams: Learning to Love the Phone</a>
If you do a search for 'development agile virtual teams remote' you will find that many have pondered this subject before. I think all it comes down to is streamlined and constant communication (which is a requirement of agile anyway but remote scenarios IMO require more).
Let me add that for the last 3 years I have been running projects that involved people on up to 4 locations, distributed over multipel countries (in the same timezone)
We are now consolidating teams two locations and eliminate the majority of remote work.
Thomas, you stated that in your opinion, "it just doesn't work"
In your opinion, what do you believe to be the source of the failures. Your statements point toward technology and its shortcomings are resposible for the failure, but in all honesty, I don't believe that technology could be held accountable here. It sounds like in the experience you have had is a simple communication breakdown. I couldn't agree with you more on the "coffe talk" that is missed, but if a team has solid communication, those things don't slip through the cracks.
I have been working in agile virtual teams for almost six years now in one capacity or another (on both sides as well), it works IMO, but must admitt it can be painful if communication is not held on a pedistal and aggressively pursued.
Remoters are to easily held as scapegoats for failures, which is one of my biggest peeves in virtual teams and see it in almost every project. It is a TEAM. If I have the choice, when building out a team, I steer clear of virtual teams at almost all costs. But, the fact of the matter is, sometimes they are unavoidable.
::I couldn't agree with you more on the "coffe talk"
::that is missed, but if a team has solid
::communication, those things don't slip through the
::cracks.
The problem, though, is that this COSTS MONEY again. It costs lots of time, lots of effort. And eliminates most of the gains you had in the first place.
It works very well on the non-programmer level (i.e. separating project management from the team), and it works if you can cut down tasks. It may also work for stuff like graphics, web design. In fact ,we do use it here (note: web DESIGN, not programming).
But when you ask about real programming, the loss is just not worth it, imho.
hey andrew,
Ben Hogan of ThoughtWorks recently did a talk at Agile 2006 on running a distrubuted Agile project.
The project was a success although not without its difficulties according to Ben.
The question that needs answering is why would one opt for a distributed project?
He offers some great tips for easing the troubles associated wth the approach.
You have to make sure you think of yourself as one team, not as two teams. If you think of yourself as two teams, you will blame the other for any problems.
It helps if you make sure you always think of the "other team" as a group of people with similar strengths and weaknesses and competing priorities to yourself and have regular communications with them to reinforce this.
Thanks for the comments guys, interesting debate opening up here and it's good to see two sides of an arguement developing.
I really should add that one of the reasons I ponder this is because OSS projects tend to spawn large development teams that spawn mutiple locations across the globe. Now if Agile does not work for remotely then will it ever see adoption in OSS projects or should a more micro-team per feature approach be taken to make a remote appoach work better.
My take on the costs of remote working is such that sometimes you cannot always ship the talent your need to the places you need and the cheaper option is to work remotely with this folks. Relocation costs are far more than some decent hardware/software for remote working. While coffee talk is missing here, I disagree that during daily meeting and pre-start informal IM chats that you cannot have this. Nor does the phone have to be ignored ;-)
Your thoughts as ever are very welcome.
Which testing framework do you use?
Valtentin, I am lead on the MbUnit project so I use MbUnit everywhere I can.
If you're interested in knowing a bit more of the inner workings of Sandcastle, but don't have the time to figure it out for yourself, come have a look:
http://blog.ljusberg.com/2006/08/sandcastle-under-hood-part-1.html
http://blog.ljusberg.com/2006/08/sandcastle-under-hood-part-2.html
I'm working on part three, let me know if there is something specific you'd like me to include!
I think distributed agile can work, but would guess-timate it at 2x to 5x less effective than a co-located (warroom) team. I lead a colocated team that occassionally have team members work from home. We compensate those days by doing more structured work planning in our morning stand-up and by using a Skype room (easy to chat and hop in out of voice) that the whole team, including ScrumMaster, is in all day.
It's not ideal but, if there's a good reason to take the effectiveness hit, you can still be successful (by which I mean build working software in a predictable way). If you have a growing product line, however, I would look at the possiblity of creating multiple co-located teams instead having a strategy of distributed teams.
I also agree that "coffee talk" can very much happen in a team chat room over the course of the day.
Distributed agile does work. I have been the project manager for agile projects for the past two years. Yes, the communication with the remote team is a challenge, but not a show stopper.
Remember the original question of this post, "Do you think all the team need be in the same place or can some be remote and some be with the client in the war-room?" Well, what do you want the role of the remote team to be? That will drive the answer to the original question.
Remote workers do have an impact on any team and management structure. Some of this impact is positive while other is not. Just like having active and passive personalities, rigth-brain and left-brain types, boys and girls, different backgrounds, et cetera.
In general it's harder to communicate with remote workers. If the remote people have strong "remote" communication skills this is probably a non non-issue. Not everybody is suited to work remote which I guess goes both ways: not everybody knows how to work with remote co-workers (this second part might be easier to address, though.)
It's also a matter of the percentage of people that will be remote and the reason for it.
On the upside you can hire the best of the best when you don't have a geographical location restriction. Even if your office it's in the middle of nowhere you can hire the best C# developer for high performant systems that lives near the beach and won't move to the middle of nowhere (again, certain conditions need to be met first but it's an option that you might not have otherwise.)
In SCRUM, and agile in general, the need for frequent communication is a key ingredient. If you can get the level of communication that you need from the remote workers and/or the rest of the team that will work with the remote coworkers then go for it.
Process Academy made a Visual Studio plug-in that works quite well with Sandcastle. It is free and you can easily select which projects you want to build. Read the readme.txt and you should be all set.
Louis
C# Best Coding Practices Naming Conventions for UI ControlsStringBuilder vs. String / Fast String Operations...
The World is small :)
We've done agile in a variety of remote locations for a variety of projects. It works but it isnt without its difficulties. We use the phone for daily scrum with remote team members. Each team member has one remote day each week. We have one full time remote team member. To date we havent had issues with being less agile but rather issues with things like reception on the phone being poor, people not being a assigned phone numbers, or online for chats, etc.
We've also done agile with a hearing impaired staff member via IM for daily meetings. Again, with proper, aggressive moderation this is completely viable.
Its not without its challenges but its completely do-able. Personally, I look for growth in the collaboration space with things like Skype, Groove, etc being more heavily used in the future.
"I'll say it again that a community Sandcastle codeplex\SF project for all this stuff would be great to see."
I allready submitted a project request on codeplex last week, but still no project generated. The project wont only contain the sandcastle functionality but also other helpfull stuff.
The sourcecode of the add-in is freely available allready.
http://dotnetpret.blogspot.com (look 4 sandcastle)
cheers,
Frank
I am also looking at the same tool for an ERP implementation. Any takers? I looked at nxbre - but it does not meet all requirements.
Regards
Ram
Well, here you are, now on Codeplex:
http://www.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?ProjectName=SandcastleAddIn
For those interessted also my GoogleDotMaps project:
http://www.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?ProjectName=GoogleDotMaps
gr
can flex objects have customized ways to be serialized? if yes, how to do?
Some interesting comments and some really unusual colors on some of the linked blogs.
See - http://weblogs.asp.net/astopford/archive/2006/07/27/MbUnit-Asserts.aspx We need Asserts AreNotEqual IsEmpty IsNotEmpty IsNaN. Less - dupes existing LowerThan Contains - dupes existing In Greater - dupes existing GreaterThan Typ...
Big Geek ;-)
Just to let you know, I've added MSHelp 2 support to the above-mentioned build script:
http://blog.ljusberg.com/2006/08/sandcastle-help-compiler-2-support.html
I personally find the basic tenets of Agile improve both the quality and the speed of development. If nothing else breaking up a project into smaller chunks makes things dramatically easier to manage.
I'm not however all that enamored with TDD. It is great for some things, but it isn't the /only/ reliable method to develop software. And for things like UI it doesn't make an sense at all (you can't assert ugly).
The keys to me are keep things simple, keep things small, and keep every pieces of code "fresh" by constantly refactoring both the code and the comments.
It's a love/hate thing man. If you are only running your code in one context (ASP.NET), what's the point of abstracting your context to another class that is simply a passthrough?
Problem is, I do run my code in 2 contexts. ASP.NET and MbUnit (what! what!).
I wouldn't even consider this IContext if Microsoft had done so with ASP.NET. Or if they had at least not sealed HttpContext. Because it is sealed, I can't use RhinoMocks to mock it. Grrr!
That leaves me this monstrosity that handles 80% of my cases.
http://haacked.com/archive/2005/06/11/4617.aspx
But is complicated and hard to maintain.
Phil
Andrew Stopford asks:One of the comments in Phil's post on using the MVP patten ismappingthe Context
I simply dont use sprocs anymore. With a good OrMapper, you dont need them. That is a layer I dont have to *deal* with anymore in my apps.
Now there are arguments that have been re-hashed a billion times, but in the end the OrMapper's benefits out weigh sprocs by far. I wont argue sprocs do have some benefits.
Also there are some OrMappers that can use sprocs, http://www.ormapper.net comes to mind for the best of both worlds.
This post by Paul Wilson is interesting - http://weblogs.asp.net/pwilson/archive/2004/09/18/231188.aspx
but in a real world query what about several tables with several joins or variables from one table to serve another query etc?
Depends what you're doing.
If it's pure CRUD, where your OO and the relational model have clear correspondence there's one answer.
If the sprocs do some relational work that will take a lot of OO code to emulate it's another.
Neither is there a good reason for an OR-mapper not to encapsulate sprocs!
I feel the real problem is languages that have big blind spots. (Think C# vs. T-SQL for example.) COmega looked on the surface to have a much smarter language design, though we won't (unfortunately) see all of that any time soon.
To repeat. It depends what you're doing (and how things are architected).
nhibernate... kickass...
I agree with Travis. We use LLBL Gen Pro (http://www.llblgen.com) on our site (http://www.myhomepoint.com) and it is great to leave the majority of our DAL up to the O/R mapper. Occasionally we've had to go outside of it, but he includes strongly typed methods for calling sprocs.
One of the major source of power for most ORM is that they have a great amount of flexibility in generating SQL.
SP limit you to a predetermained set of operations, often very hard to handle.
If you need do present a different view to the world than your real tables, use views.
The place where I still use SPs for even when using an O/R mapper is for triggers - especially in cases of updatable views.
After doing O/R mapping for quite some time now, I have found that updatable views are a required abstraction. On the one hand, you want to allow the DBA (sometimes myself) to reorganize or partition tables (for example horizontally) for improved performance, while on the other hand you don't want to have to redo all the mapping work. Views give you just what you need.
In my last post I pondered for how a ORM and Sprocs fitted in, for mea database that is in at least 4nf
Castle Active Record gives you access to all of the query stuff in NHibernate if you want it. So whatever features are in Hibernate, you've got them in Castle Active Record.
You can do quite a bit with AR, including joins, etc.
The framework is smart enough to know about the associations between objects and query for them effectively.
Ayende, any examples that show this ?
O/R mapping tools are becoming more popular each day and people are realizing the productivity gain they provide to developers. Yet, many people don’t know enough about O/R mapping to consider using these tools and many others are weary of using any code generators (including O/R mapping tools).
In this article, Iqbal Khan try to educate people about the various important features that a good O/R mapping tool would provide us and how it can be beneficial to us.
I've written a CodeSmith template which along with data access entities generates the sprocs for me, and have integrated this step into the VS.NEt 2003 build using Nant.
They have an excellent page describing the many ways you can map your objects to your data
http://www.castleproject.org/index.php/ActiveRecord:Mappings
http://www.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?ProjectName=actionpack
Watch the video.
Sprocs != bad
O/R Mappers can work with sprocs to generate a strongly typed result (O/R Mapping) of the sproc as well as make the sproc look more like a function in that the syntax you call the sproc is also strongly typed.
Yes,
http://www.ayende.com/Blog/2006/03/05/CasleDemoAppMidwaySummary.aspx
There are several features you can use. HasMany, BelongsTo, HasManyAndBelongTo (for many to many relationships).
I recently looked at ActiveRecords and with the options provided (ie lazy loading) you can really get what you want, when you want it.
I applaud the Castle people though I have yet to use their AR in a real world setting, we're considering it for some upcoming stuff.
you should add report file attribute:
<project>
<target name="tests">
<mbunit
report-types="Text;Html;Dox;Xml"
report-filename-format="myformat{0}{1}"
report-output-directory="put\it\there"
>
<assemblies>
<includes name="*.Tests.dll" />
</assemblies>
</mbunit>
</target>
</project>
hope that can help you
bro, the link is dead, can you tell me another link
thx
Hi Andrew,
I have used both AR and nHib, and I moved away from AR because that pattern proved more difficult to test (mock) than using nHib directly.
The reason for using AR was the abstraction and no XML files, both very bad reasons NOT to use nHib.
Although Ayende did solve the AR testability issue, nHib is much cleaner and doesnt mess with your domain model like the AR pattern does.
ASP.NET is not the problem. Web Forms is the problem. ASP.NET without Web Forms works just fine with MVC and MVP. I have never liked Web Forms... leaky abstraction, that is.
Hey,
There is a DotNetRock TV show by John Paul Boodhoo on Model View Presenter that would be worth checking out if you are just getting started.
Here's the link.
http://www.dnrtv.com/default.aspx?showID=14
Have Fun,
Tom
Send me email describing how you are building the app and I'd be happy to help.
thanks,
Scott
If you use an XmlDataSource, you should write :
MyXmlDataSource.EnableCaching = false;
Hope this will help you! :)
All you need to check is the second option (in 5536 that is) to allow any RD viewer and either make an exception in the firewall or disable it.
Worked fine after those two tweaks, thanks for the info :)
where is more the pdfs :)
Is that the right link?
Ya, don't look rite
Doh, fixed.
The thing about pushing things into "The Framework" is that it is very difficult remove them.
I would rather have a bunch of extensions than a monolith.
PingBack from http://www.mattberther.com/?p=677
For $249 USD, you can buy a full-featured treeview from Telerik or ComponentArt. Not only are they fully cross-browser friendly, but they come loaded with a bunch of other goodies - and you'll be up and running with them within minutes.
The $249 probably has a much greater return than spending your own time on it.
I don't know if yours is a real bug - it has been replied to now.
There do appear to be several bugs in the CollapsiblePanel though, judging by the number of posts on the forum.
The one I'm hitting is definitely real:
http://forums.asp.net/thread/1384934.aspx
Thanks for the head-up Karl however this kit does the job for my needs and it's a freebie.
It is worth mentioning that the cssadpters are going to break a lot of properties e.g.
http://forums.asp.net/thread/1285603.aspx
This could prevent you from using them.
Hi Andrew, I was surprised to hear Scott say this, too. However, a developer I was interviewing recently mentioned that he had tried to download and check out MbUnit after I'd mentioned it, and couldn't figure out how to download it. The relationship between MbUnit and TD.NET is confusing and it's hard to get a clear understanding of where to go to get started with MbUnit by googling it right now.
Thanks for all your work on MbUnit. We use the heck out of it with Rhino Mocks and TD.NET and love it!
Cheers,
Luke
I think instead of using TestApp.GetTitleData.result it should be TestApp.GetTitleData.lastResult
I should have also mentioned that this CSS Adapter Toolkit update fixes reported bugs/issues people had with older adapters -- so hopefully any issue you found was fixed. If not, send me mail and I can help hook you up with someone to investigate.
Thanks,
The best OR/Ms let you use sprocs where you want to and entities and collections everywhere else.
I've used LLBLGen Pro generate a DAL included storngly-typed stored procedure calls that enabled my team to start out by calling all of our legacy procs, and then deciding where to refactor to entities and collections. That was years ago, and today that project still have some procs, but they just turned out to be not productive use of anyone's time to refactor (and in one case, would not have been performant to do so).
I'm now looking at SubSonic which does everything through ASP.Net 2.0 build providers to produce the OR/M objects at build and run. This cuts down generated DAL code to ZERO (although there is a utility to generate the classes for you since you can't use build providers in medium trust by default).
Try the new beat version
I ran into this bug a few days ago. I ended up using the javascript method from this message: http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet/msg/f2234ba565b8effa?dmode=source&output=gplain as a workaround.
I recently used the fix you mentioned. What I'm having trouble grasping now is how to determine which radiobutton was selected. There is no "CommandName" to set on radiobutton so you cant use itemcommand of the datalist or repeater right?
Simply loop through the controls as in the javascript function and instead of setting each radiobuttons checked state, see if it is checked or not. If you hit a control with a checked state, that is the selected control.
i.e.:
if (re.test(elm.name))
if (elm.checked)
// elm is the selected radiobutton.
it's been a long time..
However i have implemented what i consider a very flexible workflow Engine,its 100% in C#, it uses most of the artifacts defined by the YAWL languaje, so it can handle very complex scenarios. I still havent implemented some of the funcionality like Cancel Sets, and other things, but most of the control flow is done (Parallel, Sequence, AND, OR, XOR splits and joins), also there is support for Atomic and composed Tasks (Sub process). There is some work to do, but its a very decent start. i think its not ready to be open source,but if there is someone interested in the project feel free to contact me ( hugozap @ gmail ).
good luck
Hugo
Would it not be simpler to use an html control with runat=server in some sort of repeater (or build a control that does this) and take control of the html output rather than fiddle with the html's state on the client side?
I'm talking about is determining which repeater item is selected on the server side. Client side doesnt really help me unless I can do some sort of callback in the method...
Possibilities for server side...
Loop through the controls in the repeater and look for a selected radio button. Determine the repeater item from there?
Hi,
I was trying the above example, but didn't succeeded. The webservice which I have created in VB.Net is working fine(individually). But when I post any value from the flex application, it is getting submitted but returning nothing. No error message displayed. Can I have further help on this?
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Too busy to comment. Here is what I'm reading... SOA/WCF/BPM/Workflow My good friend Tomas has a sample
Scott has previously mentioned MbUnit in a pod cast, that lead to this post, as such he did say and he
Now that MBUnit is getting a lot of attention, it might be time to give the documentation a little more attention. It's a little sparse and assumes a little too much prior knowledge about unit testing.
Since I can't go to a bookstore and pick up a book on MBUnit, yet, I feel the online documentation really needs to step up.
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Mentioned the dinner before but Dave Bosthas a some more details and a picture of me and Scott :)
Where was that? San Jose?
Hi.. I have de same sample and not work, I recive the error:
HTTP Response Error
Error #2032: Error de secuencia
Some Idea ?
thx, great article
MbUnit is gaining some momentum as one of the nicest unit testing frameworks for .NET out there. I just
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After I posted that I still recommend NUnit over MbUnit, and reading Andrew's response regarding how
Andrew, doesn't MbUnit run NUnit fixtures without recompile?
At the very least, there's non much you have to change to convert an NUnit test to an MbUnit test. Just change some using statements, right?
> a few things are different but on a whole you have the same asserts and fixtures
i'm kind of new to MbUnit and i love it. i would love to hear about these different things sir, thanks!
Have hear that the beta SP1 is very slow to install. What about. Was it fast enough
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I have also run into a few issues where I though generics would be a solution, but ended up running into this same problem.
I would love it is this became possible.
However does it cause any problems when using value types as in:
List<object> list = new List<int>();
I would need to think through the ramifications, given the way the CLR implements generics.
I want to thank everyone who came out for our first FAQ Friday devBrainPick event last week. I especially
IMHO this is called co-variance. Contravariance is the opposite:
http://blogs.msdn.com/rmbyers/archive/2005/02/16/375079.aspx
Frans, from reading that post types in generics in C# as it stands right now can be considerd invariant. Contravariance seems to be stricter on how types relate, to qoute:
it means that the subtype relationship of the generic type varies inversely with the relationship of the type parameter. Or formally, G<T> is a subtype of G<U> if and only if U is a subtype of T.
Arrays in C# are already contravariant, to qoute.
For example, since you can convert a string to an object, shouldn’t you also be able to convert a List<string> to a List<object>? After all, you can convert a string[] to an object[], why should List<T> be any different?
More formally, in C# v2.0 if T is a subtype of U, then T[] is a subtype of U[], but G<T> is not a subtype of G<U> (where G is any generic type). In type-theory terminology, we describe this behavior by saying that C# array types are “covariant” and generic types are “invariant”.
Yes it is very slow to install (at least it was for me). Dunno what's up with that, but in my case it did succeed.
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Try Nemerle: http://nemerle.org/
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Now some peoples hard work on VS2005 integration for this language.
Hi ...
I want to do same thing in flex 2.0 ??
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I've done the above, and have a <mbunit> node in my nant build script which is run by ccnet (and runs the tests) but i was hoping that after doing this the summary resutls would show up on my ccnet dashboard - what else do i need to do? Here is my nant ccnet section
report-filename-format="mbunitReport"
report-output-directory="AppTests\Results"
<include name="AppTests\bin\AppTests.dll" />
I think i need to merge the XML. I will be back if i'm wrong :)
Imho, the best way to add covariance and contravariance to generics would be to add "Readonly" and "WriteOnly" to the Type arguments.
That is ReadOnlyList<Readonly T> (in which no method in ReadOnlyList can be defined as taking an object of type T as an argument, nor can any return-value, out-parameter, or exception throw a Generic Object that involves type T except as Readonly.
ReadOnly would be the way to make sure you never have the type violation of trying to insert an "Object" into a list of "strings" because we're using List<string> in a variable typed as List<Object>.
WriteOnly is the opposite, and handles the reverse concept of substitution - cases where we want to treat a List<Object> as a List<String> - sine you can insert Strings into a list of OBjects, but you can't read strings _out_ of a list of Objects.
Send me a note when MBUnit 2.3 ships and I'll post it on InfoQ. I'm the new editor at InfoQ for the .NET section.
James
It might be due to the way that .NET handles strings, too, though. Under normal conditions, I believe .NET holds onto strings (since they are immutable), and reuses them (GoF Flyweight style) if it is created again. The == operator compares the references (unless it's overloaded), so it might be that DLinq somehow messes with that default behavior causing the references to be dissimilar.
You should take a look at Deblector:
http://www.felicepollano.com/archive/2006/05/12/93.aspx
It combines Reflector with the managed debugging API and lets you step through the IL and quickly switch between the IL debugger and the language views.
I'd love to see a tool like deblector get more polish and end up an add-in for VS2005, but that's just wishful thinking right now.
I agree on the Rotor stuff - I used to single step that source when it first came out but I've not revisited it lately (time mostly) but it's a really great learning tool when combined with Stutz's book.
Thanks for the deblector link - going off to look at it now.
When comparing strings, the CLR first checks for reference equality, then for exactly one instancing being null, then for the same length, then for the same characters using the appropriate StringComparison enumerated value. Andrew, perhaps you could dig into the disassembly and look at the raw data?
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Mine was working - no new changes... and then it crapped out! No idea what the deal is!
Which forums do you recommend?
Wouldn't Mono support for WCF/WPF be quite difficult? They would need the source to the managed and unmanaged parts of those libraries.
I am also looking for a .net implementation of a workflow engine. Hugo, i am intereseted in your solution, could you send me any kind of info?
We are using SVN for a mid-sized (10K classes/20 developer years wrok, total) commercial project.
I find that it is mediocre on a good day. Our sysadmin claims some admin tasks are easier, but this comes at the expense of the entire teams' productivity.
The system is quirky, particularly when you use tools like Tortoise, Subversion, Subclipse, etc. Often the local image metadata gets corrupted and the "cleanup" function cannot straigten it out, requiring everyone on the team to become a subversion expert so they can rebuild their entries file or similar nonsense.
Very few major bugs you can reproduce or point to, but many little things that make it not worthwile. STICK WITH CVS for a couple years, is my advice (as of Nov, 2006).
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I am also looking for a .net implementation of a workflow engine. Hugo, i am intereseted in your solution, could you send me any kind of info?(my email is xuyi7208@163.com)
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We're writing an ASP.NET Cookbook type of thing. I think I'll see if there's interest in a Subtext book after Subtext 2.0 when we have a real plugin API to program against.
When are you going to write a book on MbUnit?
When I get 3.0 out, I might think about it Phil. Expect to see that SubText book next year ;-)
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I had to add a service, with the ip of the host computer and the ports.
Scott Guthrie's style is definitely something that more MS program managers and MS people higher up the ranks could learn something from. He keeps his ears to the ground - which is incredible important in this business - and communicates very well.
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Is Expressions going to be available in MSDN?
Thanks
We started working on a intial support for WPF.
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Yeah, I was looking for it on MSDN also and so far no sign. I would think it would be posted as there is much to do with the SDK for added tools.
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#1, namely Control Panel > System > Remote Settings, did it for me in Vista Business. After changing the settings there, I was able to connect to Vista from Windows 2000 Server using RDC without any other changes.
My Vista is a pretty vanilla install (released version, not RC).
Just curious, why do you need to run VS w/ IIS7 seeing as Vista Server won't be released for at least 6 months?
Simple curiousity :-).
Just wanted to know from your side about what is your final views about Mbunit compared to latest NUnit.
Should we go for Nunit or Mbunit
Well if you are running Vista on your desktop you have to write code some how ;-)
Not covered on any of the links but make sure that windows authentication is enabled for the VS2005 debugger to attach ok, to do this open up the IIS7 MMC interface click on your web app, click authentication and set "windows authentication" to enabled.
-- This is required for all IIS
The VS 2005 Patch for Vista is now available for download. This improves the experience quite a bit, and also provides helpful error messages (including the step to enabling windows authentication) when things aren't configured right.
Just to clarrify - you don't need to run the app-pool in compat mode once you have the patch installed. Both integrated and classic mode are supported.
Hope this helps,
How does this work? Last time I looked - because I wanted to implement attributes that were order-dependent just like this - the order in which attributes are retrieved by Reflection is explicitly undefined and you cannot get at the order they were specified in the source code.
There was a pattern in practice, as I recall, but I was able to confirm that I was relying on undefined behavior, and had to change my APIs accordingly...
It was considered when the project started, but at the time it lacked a community and regular releases. We should definitely take a new look at it right now, we had too much pain with Nant's NUnit task testing processes that spawned new AppDomains.
Happy New Year! I predict MbUnit will continue to rock and TDD will finally catch on in a larger wave of adoption.
The only reason I use NUnit over MbUnit now is because ReSharper supports it. I would love to see this officially supported in some way so that I can move back to MbUnit.
I also moved to NUnit just because of the Resharper support. I'd love to see MbUnit supported.
I'm totally into this idea!
There will be some work to do, so it would be great that if get feedback from some users of the plugin!
My team is using this successfully. I'd love to see this project pick up more attention and support.
Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you like my projects!
obsydian suggestion worked for me.. Thanks
An Update is available
http://der-albert.com/archives/95-Update-zum-MbUnit-PlugIn-fuer-ReSharper.html
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I haven't gotten anything done. Whatever. I just don't have anything to say.
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Can you also update the log4net version used by MbUnit? Thanks
Hi Hammet,
MbUnit does'nt use Log4Net in the v2 line, its a distinct possability for v3.
That's great. The less dependencies, the less headaches. Thanks
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Thanks for blog mention! A few people have setup their .Net builds by using a "Custom Command Builder" to run Visual Studio's command line builder. We haven't done much work with this since we're a Java shop, but things that run on the command line will work in Bamboo.
We're also planning to allow better integration support for NAnt and NUnit (see http://jira.atlassian.com/browse/BAM-701). We'll have to look into the XML format of the NUnit tests, but this should probably be possible sooner rather than later. Bamboo also allows you to write plugins (though you'd have to write it in Java), that extends its functionality, so you could write your own .Net builder if you need to.
Also a quick look at MbUnit, looks pretty interesting. Is there a page that documents how you'd build MbUnit from source? Can it produce XML test results files?
Anyway, if you do decide to give Bamboo a test run, feel free to drop us a line at the forums (http://forums.atlassian.com/forum.jspa?forumID=103) or raise an issue on our JIRA instance (http://jira.atlassian.com/secure/CreateIssue.jspa?pid=11011&issuetype=4).
Mark C
The factorial example is interesting. I wonder what exactly they are getting at with it.
First of all, it would be quite something if the program could calculate factorials up to 1000. I was trying to figure out how many digits 1000! has, and it is several thousand. It might just about be representable in an extended precision floating point quantity (runs up to 1.19e+4932 I think)
They might be looking for testing using the inductive condition - e.g. for a random sample for n:
n! = n x (n - 1)!
Sample some values at n at random, and test that.
Also, I guess you could check the results against Stirling's approximation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling's_approximation
although unless you're recruiting someone with specifically mathematical background it's a bit of a big ask to expect them to have heard of this.
I think there are some opportunities to be clever here. Putting together a "row test" with 1000 input-output pairs looks attractive at first, but that depends on you having a guaranteed more reliable method of generating large factorials than the test under code, and faith in your ability to key extremely long numbers.
Personally, I'd make use of the fact that X! is divisible by all integers between 1 and X, and perform a series of divisions.
That being said, I wish I had thought of using Stirling's approximation.
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Maybe the best thing to do is ask some questions back. For example should the factorial calculator produce an exact answer or an approximation. Calculating an exact answer means validating the answer to 1000s of digits of accuracy. Also...we are supposed to be testing the factorial algorithm, not writing a new one.
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We can often safely say that a given implementation isn't an implementation of such-and-such pattern if implementation doens't reflect the spirit of the pattern.
I personally don't see that the webforms' codebehind and MS-HTML file combo reflect the spirit of MVC.
Webforms also don't seem to be idiomatically in line with MVC in it's own native habitat in common .NET, which suggests to me that the pattern's objective to be a means of communication has not been achieved.
Even if webforms meets the strict definition of MVC, the strictness of the definition doesn't seem to be helpful if we're using strictness as a means to reduce meaning.
My 2 cents.
Andrew, I fail to see how a code behind plays the controller role. The way I see code behind is a way to not have the code on script/@server blocks on the aspx. No more no less.
IMHO a controller controls the application flow, coordinates data/view and to do so it has to be the entry point.
A code behind is only a controller if you stretch the definition of a controller. And stretch it a lot.
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the comments. While webforms meets MVC in it's true defination I agree 100% it breaks things like seperation of concerns and testability that in turn renders the point of a pattern usless. Thats the reason webforms is extended with MVC frameworks in the first place :)
Code behind does do all the things you describe hammet, it does co-ord data to the view, it does control events fired from the view, it does control application flow etc. It's also tightly bound to the view as a inline code block would be, valid MVC. However, it must always be in context breaks testability down to such a degree that you must resort to functional testing and this miss one rung off the test ladder, not good at all. True seperation of concerns means we can introduce the correct levels of testability.
Don't get me wrong guys, webforms although standing correct to MVC also breaks the purpose of using a pattern in the first place. Don't get me started on viewstate ;-)
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It would be very nice if one could run nunit tests and mbunit tests from the same assembly.
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Hello Andrew,
MbUnit is great and what it realy lacks is a good documentation and/or example repository of how to use it.
You got my vote on this!
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What? Where in anyone's definition of MVC does it say that the purpose of the pattern is for testability? Your View is specific to the presentation technology and the Controller is specific to your View. What a lot of the comments here seem to be referencing is an Application Controller.
Michael Hunter (the Braidy Tester), suggests creating a logical interface that can support your tests as well as your UI. Something like what Martin Fowler describes in the Transaction Script pattern (http://www.martinfowler.com/eaaCatalog/transactionScript.html). That's all that most of the "MVC" frameworks do nowadays anyway. BTW, in my former life, I worked extensively in Java and the Struts "MVC" framework provided little more than ASP.Net code-behinds.
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Unfortunately mono doesn't support VB, so it is undesireable for use in ASP.net which should always use the VB language for web development.
C# is intended for desktop developers who are unable to convert from C++
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The VB 8 compiler is running on Mono now. I don't know how complete it is, machines running Linux are hard to come by in my neck of the woods.
http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/01/VB-Mono
Dee:
Huh? First, Mono does have a VB.NET compiler. The VB.NET runtime wasn't complete last time I looked, but it's not that bad off.
More importantly, though, where the heck did you get the idea that C# was meant only for the desktop and for developers "unable to convert from C++", what ever that means? VB is no more suited for web development than C# is, and I know many a web developer who prefer it. From a technical stand point, neither has anything over the other for this problem domain.
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http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Jan-09.html
"Although binaries compiled with Microsoft's VB.NET compiler would run unmodified on Linux, it was not possible to use VB code in ASP.NET applications (as those get compiled on the first page hit) or if developers wanted to debug and tune up a few things on their target Linux/OSX machine."
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I like SQLite, but be aware that it's got some pretty significant limitations:
http://weblogs.asp.net/jgalloway/archive/2006/04/12/442615.aspx
http://www.ayende.com/Blog/archive/6916.aspx
I'd generally go with SQL Server Compact Edition (if you're running on Windows) or Firebird (cross platform) over SQLite.
Thanks for the comments Jon. I see that SQLite suffers from two possible issues, locking and date time. It is interesting to note that Firebird is supported by ORM's like NHibernate. I suspect but have not investigated that SQL Server CE would be discounted for OSS projects due to it's license.
you need to redirect the router incoming connections to the vista machine on the RDC port. usually that's port TCP 3389.
After that when u access the router outside ip on port 3389 it should redirect u to the vista machine.
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Right. I think the datetime thing is part of a bigger issue - data types in SQLite are pretty limited and loosely enforced:
http://www.sqlite.org/datatype3.html
I agree about SQL Server CE being out of the running for most open source projects, since it requires a Visual Studio license:
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/editions/compact/howtoobtain.mspx
I think I'd go with SQLite for a simple project and Firebird for anything that may have more advanced needs:
http://www.firebirdsql.org/
I'd like to see VistaDB on this list, too. It's a commercial product, but I think it'd make sense for them to grant licenses to open source projects.
I'm getting frustrated. I have Vista Home Premium. I have McAfee and Windows firewall both turned off. I can remote Vista to XP pro SP2, I can see shared files and folders on the Vista machine from XP, but I can't remote desktop from XP into Vista.
dan.peek- vista home premium doesn't act as a remote desktop host, which means that you can't connect to it from any other computer using the built-in utility. only vista business, enterprise, and ultimate support "incoming" remote desktop. there are other programs available, however. i recommend VNC (realvnc.com). you just need to install the free edition on your vista pc and the free edition viewer on any pc you want to use to connect to it.
Funny, I wasn't that impressed. There are definitely better UIs for the auction sites including ebay. Apart from the video and some of the caching there was nothing there that couldn't be done with AJAX. I was expecting a significant step up.
The whole freeformat user section on ebay always makes the site look like a bad pop-up.
You can ping me:
mesh@adobe.com
I can answer any questions you might have (I'm on the Apollo team).
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Unfortunately the work through guide is incomplete. The first one is good, but then you get left wanting for more :-(
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Why were you blown away? Was it just that Adobe have not managed to destroy Flash or something else? The technology etc isn't that maazing ...
Joe - bad UI won't be fixed by any RIA, that said EBay don't go for amazing UI but something that lets users do what they need. If you can give a user new a new and improved way of doing things they do already that brings value.
Mike - thanks for leaving your details, I have pinged you offline.
Phil - Several things about Apollo are cool, the mix of HTML\Ajax, PDF and Flash into one mix along with application API's brings new and interesting ways of building an application. In the Ebay app, the use of 3D and Video was effective and the offline data sync API bring tons of value to occasionally connected applications.
That all said I _still_ think that using Flex and Microsoft technologies interop needs to improve _a_lot.
@jp: thanks, that did the trick.
@Tiago: that's not exactly a wise idea. An attacker, one that's clever enough to document itself, knows that the 3389 port is used for RDC. Then, he can use an exploit to compromise that computer. Right now there aren't any exploits for RDC for Vista, but that can change in the future.
There are 2 possible solutions:
1) forward another port, 10000 for example, that will look to the casual attacker as a port used by some torrent client.
2) if your router is an Unix based router, this is my case: I have opened only the port 22, for ssh connections, log in with putty to the router from outside my network and set up putty to make a tunnel that will forward, let's say, port 1234 from my work pc, to 3389 of my workstation from home. Then, I connect to 127.0.0.1:1234 with the RDC client and the whole communication is done through a secure tunnel.
After trying many things to get RDC to work as a host on Vista Premium, I searched through windows help on "remote desktop" and this is what I found:
You cannot use Remote Desktop Connection to connect to computers running Windows Vista Starter, Windows Vista Home Basic, Windows Vista Home Basic N, or Windows Vista Home Premium, and you can only create outgoing connections from those editions of Windows Vista.
I should have read Michael's posting a few hours ago.
I have to say that I am very disappointed (although not surprised) that Microsoft decided to leave this feature out of their "Premium" version of Vista.
@Robbie: well, you can't join an AD with XP Home, can you? :) The fact is that 90% of the home users (eg, the ones that could use Windows Vista Starter, Windows Vista Home Basic, Windows Vista Home Basic N, or Windows Vista Home Premium don't need very advanced network utilities. That's why (prolly) the price is lower for these versions. The only solution for these versions is to run a vnc server. Which isn't a very good idea because for each refresh, the vnc server will send to the client a full bitmap with everything on the screen. RDC sends objects afaik, and can optimize that.
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I'm looking to add every feature in, and re-do the entire interface so it's more user-friendly ... as soon as I can find the time to steal away from my work (which will be soon) =) Thanks for the suggestion!
Existing presentation tier technologies, yes – even Ajax, tend to gobble up resources; wither it is the continual processing and pushing of dynamic data or keeping Javascript/CSS libraries up-to-date to make sure that the majority of internet browers can even use the system (QA implications here are staggering). Apollo will allow you to reduce complex system requirements to a manageable common denominator and opens the door to some incredible ‘convergent’ thinking in systems design.
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Just bought a vista (business) computer. Turned on IIS and had no idea why my ASP websites were not working. Thanks for your post.
I would have never thought that ASPX and ASP would not be on by default and the Microsoft help tells you to go in and setup MIME types, which is useless.
Thanks again for the post.
C# is well suited for web development.
Personally, I can't use VB.NET (VB in general). It just doesn't feel like a real programming language.
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Just a general question, not a flame etc.: why would a commercial company give you their work for free while others have to pay for these same licenses?
Are you also asking your local supermarket to give you their groceries because you have no source of income because you give your work away for free?
If such a company isn't willing to give you their work for free, why do they then get slammed on your blog because of it?
This is what Open source is about: if you spend all your time on a given project P, and P is given away for free, then you have to make sure you have other sources of income so you can still pay the bills and thus make P.
You now hit that hard wall. However, there are other solutions. Tigris.org for example is the home of a lot of open source projects and they provide services for you. You can also try to get your work on codeplex, I'm sure MS will accept you. And there's also still sourceforge. YES it might suck in some ways, but I think you shouldn't complain in that sense: you also don't pay a dime for the service. Sure, they could have done a better job writing the same code, but that's about what you can argue about sourceforge.
(before you kill me off as stupid, I have released a lot of open source in the past decade, so I know what I'm talking about. )
I agree with Frans to be honest. Maybe a discount would be nice, but they still have to pay their bills at the end of the day.
I've actually paid for Frans' software that I'm using to build an open source piece of software, because in the end it'll actually save me hours. Although that software is a fixed cost, rather than a recurring cost.
I'm sorta hoping I'll get enough back in donations eventually to pay for my investment, but I'm not that bothered if I don't.
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Frans\Boris thanks for the comments.
I made the point that allowing software to be used for OSS is a goodwill guesture and nothing more. None of us are in OSS to make money and we do generally depend on the good will of others. A company has wages to pay and by no means has to give away for free. For companies that are making money I have no problem with getting charged for making money of my own. Does a company have to give away for free because a project makes no money, no way, I don't expect them to either. Some companies do this so that more and more OSS projects use them and thus more and more coders use them (and thus consider them on their commerical projects). The ball is the court of those companies that choose to, if they don't thats their concern not mine.
MbUnit lives on Google Code which has a project tools but I was after something a little less involved. I guess I will have to wait for Google to create something.
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Freedom is more important than security
I can completely understand where you are coming from. You're supporting an OSS project and you'd like some companies to support you with their software. Never hurts to try, right?
Since 37signals won't offer a discount, have you considered asking your users to help support the costs of Basecamp for you? I'm sure you'll get some folks willing to donate money to support your costs.
Andrew try telling that to the DotNetNuke people, or Red Hat, JBoss...you get the picture.
For more on DNN's recent manueverings see John Mitchell's blog here http://blogs.snapsis.com/PermaLink,guid,f7cd028a-a5bb-45f4-8dbb-23fbbf7a5d18.aspx
I work for a distributed consulting company and we used to use StarTeam. Starteam is nice, but crazy expensive. About six months ago we moved to Subversion and I love it. No corruption problems, no hours spent trying to learn the crazy security, just set it up and get back to work.
I now run several subversion repositories of my own on my home network. My children even have their own Subversion repository for their homework. If a nine year old and thirteen year old can get he hang of Subversion, anyone can.
btw, we use Tortoise SVN to interface with Subversion.
Have you looked at Zoho project? From their home page.
"Zoho Projects is 100% free for open-source projects.
To get an unlimited account for your open-source project contact our support."
Might be worth looking into. I've used their Writer and Spreadsheet products before and they are excellent.
I can RD from Vista Ultimate to XP Pro, but after I do, things go bad in XP (can't boot to the desktop). This has happened twice now. First time, I was able to rename the usrclass.dat file and boot to the desktop, but the second time I RD'd to XP from Vista, renaming usrclass.dat and various other attempts at recovery failed, short of having to recover from a Ghost image.
Thousands of entrepreneurs build new start-ups every month and quite a few of them make tons of money in the end leveraging free and open source software created by enthusiasts.
There are tons and tons of greedy people who do nothing but sit and observe the open source community looking for free *** they can make money of.
37signals themselves used all that good and free stuff like Ruby and MySql to build BaseCamp.
This is why I find it sick when I see some people's comments about "why would a commercial company give anything for free..." In my opinion commercial companies owe big time to OSS folks.
1. Non-profit does not mean no-revenue. It just means that after all the bills are paid that revenue equals (hopefully) expenses.
2. As I am sure Andrew recognizes, there are lots of expenses associated with developing Open Source software. You can get a lot of goods and services donated which keeps costs down, but rarely are these goodwill gestures sufficient to eliminate costs completely. As such, OS projects naturally seek to minimize costs for support software/hardware/bandwidth etc, so that they can use their limited hard currency for those items that really do require cash.
3. While DotNetNuke has recently gone through a re-org, this is nothing new for any organization of any significant size. You try to let people leave a project with a bit of dignity and without trashing their reputation, but sometimes people would rather stir up trouble than just accept that they no longer are a good fit for a project.
4. Commercial projects don't owe OSS folks anything. If you are doing OSS because you think you are owed something, then you probably are not working in the spirit of OSS. We give away DotNetNuke with no anticipation of getting anything in return. We have companies and individual who turn around and sell our software for thousands of dollars to their clients, and yet I still don't expect anything from them. I know that in the aggregate that we are well compensated for the work we do. Some of it is in the form of project support, some comes in the form of volunteer support, and some comes in the form of professional reputation, resume enhancement and public recognition. Everyone who works on OSS projects is compensated exactly what their contribution is worth: which is to say if they were not adequately compensated, they would no longer continue donating their time.
I totally understand Andrew's dissapointment at not having 37Signals provide a little more support to the OSS community, but I do have to say that they already provide quite a bit through their development and support of the RoR framework. I have just finished reading about the development of Basecamp in the recent book "Founders at Work". Given the ammount of code involved, it should not be that hard to create a reasonable replacement. Personally, I used the software in the past and don't see what all the excitement is about since I found it to be extremely limiting: but to each his own.
I totally understand (and share) Andrew's thoughts, but also agree with Joe Brinkman. I just think Atlassian, JetBrains, Cenqua are great OSS supporter, mostly because they use OSS and believe in it.
A wild thought now: would have 37signals behave differently if it was a Ruby project?
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I can see you point Andy -- but where would it stop? Hospitals are much more deserving than OSS.. so should they get it for free too. What about charities. Companies that make Carbon neutral products?
With XP Pro on box 1 = Remote access works fine
With Vista release box 1 = Remote only works on LAN not from WAN
All 3 settings for RD are set too allow, I have turned off all firewall software to no avail
Good points, all.
There are enough free homes for OSS project management that calling out Basecamp for not being one of them is not a productive avenue of exploration.
37Signals already contributed Ruby on Rails to the world, they've done enough for OSS. :)
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Subversion is way better than vanilla cvs. Big d - don't know how 20 developers can't get the update-work-commit thing wrong. You only need to clean up when people are stupid and screw things up. it really is quite simple. Always update before starting anything. I have had teams using tortoise built-in, VS pulg-ins, and the only time we had a corrupt repository is when I did something stupid, and my admin was able to sort it out and restore it while we played foozball. Then everyone did an update and merged their changes. beautiful because its simple.
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You have to be using rdp 6.0 to rdp to vista http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925876. Even with it installed I still had issues on my xpsp2 box. The default setting for rdp on vista is to use NLA (network level authentication), for some reason my xpsp2 box can't use it even though the service is running. To check if it's running right mouse click on the upper left hand corner of your rdp client and hit about. You should see a line NLA supported/not supported. If it's not supported go back to your vista system, goto adv. system settings\remote, set the middle option allow any rdp client to connect (less secure). This should take care of those having issues.
R_James what level of authentication are you using on your wlan? I'm using wep64 and NLA won't work. See my note above on how to turn off NLA.
RDC is really weird in Vista or may be it's me. I am able to RDC within my home network, but when I try to connect using internet it's not working. I have forwarded the incoming connection to port 3389 and selected "allow connections from any computer...(less secure)". I've tried every thing as JP (first comment).
Any idea would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Check out http://www.activecollab.com/. It's a basecamp clone written in Php 5. I wish there was a similar open source project in ASP.NET.
Did you actually look at the problem the candidates were struggling to solve?
Thom: Your point is valid and important, but I think Andrew is talking about something else.
I am also troubled at the lack of imagination and open mind among the current crop of programmers.
I classify software professionals as Geek/Hacker -> Programmer -> Developer -> Architect. Unfortunately 99% of software professionals are at the geek level.
Great post Andew, Got to go...
A few years ago we set a programing problem as part of an interview. It was fairly simple: print the first 1000 primes. People had as much time as they liked and could do it in whatever language they wanted. Of the 10 that did it (all well qualified):
1 person managed it (Well nearly)
1 person ran off
1 person wrote a program to print the first 1000 integers (via a label!)
7 people simply failed
We took on the person that managed it and it turned out to be an excellent decsion. Interestingly my wife (who is a housewife) managed a perfect implimentation in pseudocode in about five minutes...
"A few years ago we set a programing problem as part of an interview. It was fairly simple: print the first 1000 primes. People had as much time as they liked and could do it in whatever language they wanted. Of the 10 that did it (all well qualified):"
See now that one would hang me up, as the easiest way is just a bunch of loops where you keep trying to divide and check the remainder.
But I wouldn't do that. I get caught up trying to remember how to do a Sieve of Eratosthenes, and without a reference text I'd most assuredly get it wrong.
It's like asking someone to write an algorithm to sort an array. Most people know how to do a bubble sort, but that's not the most efficient way, and the real question is why are you wasting your time writing a sort when it's an API call?
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If only you could get a qualification on your ability to use Google :-)
That would probably cover about 50% of the job alone!
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The fraction that does use TDD is as productive as pulling in an entire stack of VM bloats, BEA/ASP.NET bloats, and then some JMS/WCF bloats and whatever tools and editors are required bloats and then some more xDoc bloats and wow they got a web-page and one class.
Same for .NET, same for a lot of disciplines and environments.
The best coders you will ever come across are not the ones familiar with TDD for sure, take that for granted. Reason is very simple. They will take equivalent amount of time to reach the destination (quality design), whilst the TDD guys will live in SD and SSADM and formal methods, and hierarchies and what not, ONLY to prove 'no absence of bugs'. Those that follow patterns blindly produce most conventional, simplistic and very inefficient code.
One example that does stand out are people writing client code first, and being a superset of TDD it is an art in prototyping and it is certainly not as restricteve. But why bother, look at that reply above and you see how the industry is pushing everyone one to call themselves an Architect (ops ego-lego), Developer (watch out of those as they are the ones that can be neglected in the story) and Geeks/Hackers.
So it is not unusual to come across Geeks and Hackers out there that simply dwarf the Architects of runtime and other worlds, plenty of examples on the web, look at the 1999/2000 age and technologies around that timeframe. Their code is not documented, their code has no unit tests, but it speaks volumes. Look deep and you will find examples how an 'geek artist' can be a great developer, better architect than all runtime wannabies ever will be, and certainly a great software engineer. Some of them ended up in top positions making software for Architects to blindly follow.
Just my 10 cents.. I wouldn't classify anything or anyone, especially developers because they are one and all :)
Thanks for the comment. It's interesting to see your viewpoint on developers and the use of patterns and approaches like TDD, it speaks volumes.
Why would a great developer be one that does'nt use these things? Every developer makes mistakes, has bugs, every single one with out exception (including the good ones). Code can pass hands or sit still for a few months/years. In both cases modification with out a safety net is like having a shark as a swim buddy. Even good developers forget, and if they blindly start changing things with out knowing what the change might effect then they may as well eat beans and wear spurs. I finish up on TDD that your understanding of it is such that I've never seen SSADM featured in TDD, if I were you I'd follow Atuls suggestion.
Following anything blindy is crazy, on that we agree. Not following a script of any way shape of form is one sure way of cooking up the biggest plate of pasta mud to ever grace this planet. Using patterns as a way of explaining concepts to others and cleaning your design and your code is the right way to be using them. Most folks that use patterns also have common sense.
@Andrew,
Did you see the questions? They weren't "how many people live in seatle" type of questions.
They are "does he even know what he is talking about?"
If you can't reverse a string, you aren't a programmer, period.
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Ayende, thanks for the comment. I suspect that in a true interview if you can find out what work a candidiate has before, on what and how then you do need to ask him these kinds of questions. My point here is not " how to draft interview questions 101" but that no programmer should be considered on their ability to answer programming questions alone yet this whole debate centers around that very fact.
I see this as a lacmus(sp?) test.
If I give someone visual studio, access to google and ten to twenty minutes, and they still can't solve the problem, that means that I just saved an hour of my time.
I should point out that this is something that is really only relevant for people that I didn't get from friends. If I got someone that was referred, I can assume that he is a competent programmer and move to discover if he is a good match for us.
If it is just random stranger, I need to establish that he knows one of of the compiler from the other.
> no programmer should be considered on their ability to answer programming questions alone
I agree with Ayende on this one. Certainly, people shouldn't be judged only on their ability to answer programming questions, but, hey, we're not talking rocket science here. Candidates that can't make a decent fist of the type of questions discussed (not necessarily a complete solution, but an indication that they know how to approach it) don't know the basics of their craft. This isn't a "wits contest" - this is about finding out the non-starters at the first hurdle and not wasting any more time on them.
In mathematical terms, the questions aren't a sufficient condition, but they are a necessary one.
I can't be bothered with anything lately, but that's how it is. Nothing seems important, but what can I say? Shrug.
Hey Andrew, I noticed that MbUnit doesn't just give committ access to anyone who asks for it. Jeff Atwood asked the question why we don't just give committ access to anyone. After all, isn't that what source control is for?
I wrote my response, but as this is an interesting debate, if you have a moment, consider adding your point of view in the comments here: http://haacked.com/archive/2007/03/02/A_Comparison_of_TFS_vs_Subversion_for_Open_Source_Projects.aspx#feedback.
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Thanks for all the comments. It's great to have some views on this but I'll try and put this one to bed so I can blog about other things :)
First off I agree with everyone here that programming questions, in terms of judging how to approach and a resolve a problem should be included in an interview. The questions being asked were not vastly tricky of that we all agree.
However, the buck should not stop there and what folks should be focusing on is that if a candidate shows willing and you can round off with SE questions then you get a bigger picture.
Read the 'leaky' post.
You know I've been using ASP.net since late 2001, and it amazes me when I read posts like I just read. It's perfectly okay to admit that you don't have a good understanding of a technology and recommend areas for greater research. For example, viewstate can per turned off on a per-control basis, and it's factored so it can be compressed, stored in session, database, cached, sent in a post card ... okay maybe not sent in a post card, but it's fairly flexible.
But what was most revealing is when the author said to bypass the ise of the controls to get data and go straight to the Request object becasue the Request is anchored to HttpContext and that can be used anywhere. Interesting ... you know, this sounds like an OO design problem - or lack there of.
If you -know- ASP.net you can really do some neat things. But if you try to bend asp.net to your expectations, instead of learning how it works, it will punish you and make you feel like it's just a bunch of overkill.
ASP.net is a very productive technology once you get through the steep learning curve. Taking on the learning curve is a choice. But don't blame the technology for your own lack of patience or understanding.
I agree with this post 100 percent. I posted a follow up to this over here.
http://www.jerradanderson.com/blog/index.php?/archives/62-Only-software-engineers-make-good-software-engineers.html#extended
"For some annoying reason, I still get a _VIEWSTATE variable in the pages, I assume that it is the ControlState, but so far I haven't dug far enough to find yet."
When you don't know what is going on but you know that it is wrong :P
He is not removing the abstraction, he is just choosing to ignore it and to not even use it where it really works.
@mysterious.e,
I am well aware of all the things you can do with a view state, none of which solve the immediately problem, I am working within a stateless environment, but the framework insist of trying to make me work in a stateful model.
I have very good level of familiarity with ASP.Net, and I know very well what the pain points are. Feel free to browse my blog about issues that I have run into with ASP.Net, I do not feel that I speak from ignorance.
Accessing the user input directly from the request get me one major thing, I move the input processing/validation/etc from the view level to the controller level.
This means that I can now test the code easily, since I have the abstraction in place to fake the request when I need it.
@AndrewSeven,
You did saw the yet, right? This is something that I certainly plan to check, just not right now.
I agree with mysterious.e. Ayende doesn't know ASP.NET as well as they think.
I see another mass debate heading my way again :)
First off lets not confuse asp.net with webforms, the problems with webforms are well voiced but in general.
Viewstate add's a great degree of page bloat and farming it off just add's cpu cycles. While some may say that's not a great cost, I don't get these kind of costs in other franeworks.
Webforms breaks pattern abstraction, code behind serves as a kind of controller but is coupled to the view too tightly. It actually meets the MVC pattern square on the head but in testability terms is a head ache. I want the ability to test in each unit the code by GUI interactions and should not need to skip it for functional testing. As it stands I can't isolate code behind from view, they need each other to work correctly.
Webforms is tied to a web context very tightly and that once again breaks testability. Returning to the HttpContext issue, its a sealed class so you can't easily mock it. Most folks use their own variant IContext type but you end up with needing to go to great lengths with this approach(and documented on the web already folks).
Getting around most of the concerns of webforms can be tricky and if most of the concerns raised here are concerns your having then I recomend giving MonoRail a shot.
1. You know it!
2. MbUnit
3. Ummm, didn't you read my #1?
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1. Yes and no. Anything I have control over that will be maintained, I try to cover with unit tests as much as possible.
2. NUnit
3. On the other hand, I've inherited an older .NET 1.1 project that was outsourced and came back in unspeakably horrible shape. I'll be in so far over my head trying to sort that out, that I probably won't be able to add any tests to it for a long time.
1. Yes, except the web pages...it's not easy enough to unit test Ajax pages especially.
3. N/A
1. Yes, except web pages.
2. Nunit with Ncover
3. Sometimes for existing projects.
1) Yes. Everything except views. Except for when I am lazy and unprofessional.
2) MbUnit
1. Sure thing!
2. NUnit when doing .NET, JUnit when doing Java.
I also use extensions like XmlUnit and similar when they are applicable.
1. No
3. Unit testing web projects and unit testing db heavy projects is just too hard to be useful.
1. Selectively
2. Nunit
3. I only write unit tests for calculations and complex logic. (Not webpages, general CRUD operations, etc)
What Eric Wise said.
3. Currently only domain logic, but UI and data layer are also on the menu in the near future (not rushing things).
Not on small projects that serve specific tasks, but yes when building code libraries that will be used extensively.
Its not working if i use this service in eclipse
Unit testing is for girls, real men don't write bugs into their code.
;-)
To Joe Brinkman : It is ok to re organize DotNetNuke but why ask people to lie about their retirement reason:
"This will be easy for others to understand and support and helps us all to continue to work together harmoniously in a community we all wish to see growing."
What would it be easy for me to understand that John Mitchell retired from DotNetNuke willingly, as it is not true.
It doesn't really make sense for ASP.net environment where the vast majority of the work is in development of web pages.
If someone were coding reusable custom controls for long term usage on internal projects, then it might make more sense.
Most work these days is bid work and bid work can't compete if cost includes unit testing development.
No
-
For writing web apps with a fairly build once don't reuse too much, it really doesn't make much sence for me.
I don't unit test -- as you know ;) Although I do use active testing within my code (lots of Asserts etc). I would be interested in hearing you reply to comments like:
"For writing web apps with a fairly build once don't reuse too much, it really doesn't make much sence for me."
"It doesn't really make sense for ASP.net environment where the vast majority of the work is in development of web pages."
1. Yes
2. Microsoft.VisualStudio.QualityTools.UnitTestFramework
2. NUnit, and Watir for web pages.
2. Would use NUnit
3. I have no idea how to test ASPX and database code, which is what I write mostly...
We use Watin + Nunit. The main downside so far is that it doesn't work very well with Cruise Control, since CC runs as a service, and Watin by definition requires UI.
There are damn _fragile_.
I am testing via WatiN and I can't get them to pass successfully all the time.
not cost effective.
use your validation for forms and trace for everything else and be done with it.
has anyone been able to remote desktop the other way? remote desktop an xp machine from vista?
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PingBack from http://www.benoitlavigne.com/blog/2007/03/12/around-the-net/
Could someone please tell me if my home machine (using Vista Home Premium) will be able to RDC with my desktop at work (using XP Office) through a VPN connection. I've read somewhere that home premium will allow client-access only and not host. So in that case, shouldn't I be able to make this connection work?
Nagging indeed! =)
1. Yes, selectively. I don't generally bother with automated UI tests.
2. MbUnit. Previously JUnit.
3. Much of my work is oriented around a rather large legacy code-base with a shamefully low degree of testability and a lot of inertia among the engineering staff. Everything at or above the data layer is pretty much a mess. Nevertheless I've written hundreds of unit tests and obtained good coverage wherever possible but generally limited to the core libraries and frameworks. Alas virtually no one else has followed suit. The situation is reversed in most of my personal projects where unit tests become my primary measure of pride and progress. =)
I am not able to create an ssh tunnel to vista in the past with xp I could log into remote desktop ushing ssh...any ideas?
When testing webforms, you're actually "functionally" testing, and not unit testing.
There's a big difference.
For instance build use cases, like "create a new Order" and "try to add order line items to an existing order with an orderdate before today" and so forth.
Unit testing is for testing the actual methods, like IsValidEmailAddress("eric@asdf.com")==true
Nice site. Thanks.
This is bizarre. I am trying to RD to a Vista Home Premium machine using XP Pro. The vista machine RD dialogue is happy to send my XP machine an invite by email but reading this posts it seems to be that the RD won't be possible. When I use the invite, I find I can't connect and when I try the suggestions at the top I find I don't have Share settings as advised by the first poster.
Can this be right?
Disappointed to find out that Vista Home Premium IIS7 doesn't come with Windows Authentication. Does anyone know of a solution to running web apps on IIS7 without Windows Authentication???
Thats with VS2005 of course.
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For anyone interested and concerned with Apollo development a new forum has been launched just for the community, take a look and join in on this new technology--be one of the first to soak it up:
http://www.codeapollo.com
You guys are doing great work and high-quality releases. Thanks a bunch for them!
Total nitpick: the MBUNIT-96 line above is missing the <T>
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I don't think there are any licensing restrictions on SQL Server CE.
Please see this link: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms171938.aspx
It says: "SQL Server Compact Edition is free to download, deploy and distribute."
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Sorry, it wasn't filmed. As for feedback everyone seemed to be very impressed, I have had a number of people tell me they are definitely going to switch from nUnit or Team System to MbUnit.
RowTest and PairWise would probably the biggest hits, especially when I showed the PairWise example that generated 418 tests. The only real question around PairWise was how to come up with the expected value for your assertion. In my example I basically duplicate the logic on the method to come up with the expected result.
The answer was basically that I think PairWise is best for ensuring no unexpected results are coming back, but not necessarily best for checking calculations. You could use it to make sure none of the possible inputs throw an exception, return a value less than 0, etc. Although it might be interesting to be able to specify another factory for returning the expected result. (can you already do that?)
-James
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Pairwise and row will drill across a range of values between x and y. It's really intended to throw a wide net over your tests, you could then combine with code coverage to check you don't have plains of untested code showing up and that your checking for the unexpected in your code. I'd double up with a more directed test to check expected against actual as well as a wide net test so you get the best of both worlds.
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Does anyone know of a solution to running web apps on IIS7 without Windows Authentication???
I am running VS2003 and cannot edit existing apps, please help!
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Just to let you know Windows Vista Home Premium will NOT allow incoming remote desktop connections, however Vista Business, Enterprise and Ultimate will.
I know this as I am writing an article on how to use remote desktop over the internet :D
Andrew are you familiar with SourceAnywhere for VSS or SourceAnywhere Standalone?
PingBack from http://liangwu.wordpress.com/2007/04/10/interesting-finding-04102007/
Another way is to use SnoozeNet and throw the DataSet over to Flex/Flash in XML form and let snoozenet handle the conversion to proper objects on the client side.
Url: http://develop.itmaskinen.se/labs/snoozenet/
WEAK! Not allowing RD for home versions is a big mistake. Im removing my Vista install and going back to XP...
I really think its idiotic that MS doesn't let Vista premium support RDP. There are many home users who might like to connect to their home pc's while away from home and aren't running Vista Business. What a terrible decision. Its one of the reasons I'm not upgrading to Vista until I have to.
Hey Andrew,
Good to hear that you guys are going to take a stab at your external docs... Just to be clear, I was talking about a documentary style of writing test code and application code so that *code* is easier to understand.
Hi
Unfortunately MbUnit's Row Test doesn't work in VB 2003. I blogged about a way to achieve something similar with MbUnit's combinatorial tets. You can check it here:
http://www.hpoffice.cl/julian/archive/2007/04/17/mbunit-rowtest-in-vb-2003.aspx
Best regards
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PingBack from http://liangwu.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/interesting-finding-04182007/
Get on and do it! - everyone that is forced to use Subversion with Visual Studio .Net needs this now!
Could there possibly be enough potential users of this type of tool to justify the development expense?
It seems like the 'code oriented developer' could be well servered, but lots of folks love those visual designers for WPF, WWF, SQL Server Transformation and more
A while back in one of the forums for ReSharper, someone from JetBrains mentioned that the IDE was being put on hold. My impression was that they began to realize that it was more work than they could handle, so instead focused on making ReSharper as good as possible.
I love it "The Code Oriented Developer"! Can I wear a 'cod'piece to show my support?
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To get it working in Flex 2.0 use lastResult instead of result.
Interesting...
PingBack from http://liangwu.wordpress.com/2007/04/26/interesting-finding-04262007/
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Cathy... I know exactly what you are talking about. You're right, you are the client, not the host. but if you are connecting through a VPN, i believe that it is still trying to connect TO your computer on port 3389. even though your end goal is to RDP to your work computer. I'm still trying to figure out a way around this because a co-worker of mine is having this same issue. If anyone else has figured this out, or even knows what i'm talking about :) let us know.
Microsoft should release an update to allow home Premium to include RD support.
Nice
Cool!
Just FYI, I've developed a NAnt Builder plugin for Bamboo which also support parsing and displaying NUnit results. I haven't used MbUnit before, but I don't think it'd be too difficult to include support for MbUnit results, feel free to drop me a line if you'd like to discuss (piaross at gmail dot com).
Ross
Sorry, I forgot to add the URL:) The plugin is available at http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/CODEGEIST/NAnt+Builderf%2fconfluence.atlassian.com%2fdisplay%2fCODEGEIST%2fNAnt%2bBuilder
I'm all for extension, in particular I'm aiming to integrate NUnit/MbUnit/Selenium into MS Test.
In general, I don't expect Microsoft to do the work, and the open source teams are interested in making their frameworks first. Integration is, well, rather tedious work, and plugging into MSTS or VS is rather specialized programming, with a large amount of COM, which discourages the casual or 'pure .NET' developer.
Found a hack to allow RDP into vista home premium. I can connect from the vista machine to another user session on the same vista machine, but haven't been able to connect from an XP machine. I followed the links above and got the rdp6 version, but it won't support NLA on the xp machine, so I'm assuming from documetation I've read that i have to drop the nla on the vista machine. However I don't have the settings available in the remote section, i guess as this is a hacked termserv dll. I've found a registry item that supposedly means rdp only accepts from vista, when set to 1, but mine is set to 0, so I don't know what that means. I'd almost think it means nla is off, but i still can't connect from xp. just says there was a problem connecting, please contact your administrator... any ideas?
Actually, recent announcements from MS on post-Orcas are all about this. Can't remember the source -- Brian Harry or Buck Hodges, I believe. But it was explicitly about having open extensibility points to make plugging in testing, code coverage, etc. into the IDE/VSTS ecosystem.
I am using the RDP hack for Vista Home Premium and is having problem connecting from XP even with rdp6. After searching around, I add the port 3389 in the firewall exception list and it is now working fine.
The spirit of OSS should be done without expectations of others. Do OSS because you believe in it, and you are happy to provide it to the entire internet community without biases.
If you have expectations of others, then make a custom license... or require that your software can only be used in completely free software, and can not be shared (or copy and pasted into other projects, with licenses and credit attached of course). So other OSS software such as Ruby can decide not to utilize your code, since they want to allow Ruby be used by commercial, and non OSS projects too.
To complete your project it would be nice for basecamp to donate to help you with your cause, it would also be nice for your internet provider to donate, and your electricity company to donate for your usage while building OSS, and the petrol company to donate, when you go to meet your OSS project developer team.
Basecamp will consider donating when it's good marketing and PR, which could generate them more profits... they need to do the ROI on that one, if they haven't already done so. Perhaps if you can convince them the marketing+PR buzz from donating and becoming a sponsor of your project is worth the costs they might work with you.
Good luck!
MbUnit rawks!
Raj.
turned out, for some reason it won't work if i use the pc name, but if i use the ip address I was able to connect fine. now to figure out if i can get ssh working on vista...
I've followed David's directions manually - and ran his script - in each case when I try and run the test.php page I get the following error:
HTTP Error 404.3 - Not Found
Description: The page you are requesting cannot be served because of the Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) map policy that is configured on the Web server. The page you requested has a file name extension that is not recognized, and is not allowed.
Error Code: 0x80070032
Notification: ExecuteRequestHandler
Module: StaticFileModule
Requested URL: http://localhost:80/test.php
Physical Path: C:\inetpub\wwwroot\test.php
Logon User: Anonymous
Logon Method: Anonymous
Handler: StaticFile
I'm new at this. Any help in fixing this would be most appreciated.
John, I knew I had heard it somewhere but had forgot the source. Still can't remember how I heard about it. Would be interesting to find more out about this, shame its post-Orcas.
I have a question about differences between SDE and SDET positions. They seem to be totally different, since first one means building the product, and second testing it with different kinds of inputs.
How different are interviews for these two positions? I’d like to know more about SDE interview process (since I’ll be interviewing pretty soon)
Are technical questions similar to SDET?
thanks
I get the same problem... :(
I'll also mention that the SubSonic crew also have Scaffold style system.
www.codeplex.com/actionpack
The ORM\Scaffold picture is more complete with SubSonic.
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jd
I am writing to support this post. Although I see the problems with implementing co-/contravariance, the ability to cast concrete/lower types to their abstract/base type as a whole object tree allows for very generic and flexible coding. I am glad I found this page because I knew others had to share my frustration, but I didn't know what to search for.
Cheers.
Sorry :(
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MbUnit 2.4 RTM
The latest and greatest of the best unit testing framework available for .NET is now available . -Jame
Pingback from MbUnit 2.4 RTM is Here « Vadim’s Weblog
See the official announcement from Andy's blog here . You can download the bits here . Nudge to smash
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Motivate Your Unit Tests With the Release of MbUnit 2.4
Are your unit tests a little flat lately? Have they lost their shine and seem a bit directionless? Maybe
I am trying to remote from XP to Vista Ultimate. It looks like it is going through and then I get a Remote Desktop Connection Error saying the remote computer ended the connection. I did everything explained above and still can't figure this out. Very frustrating.. Anyone have any suggestions please?
Pingback from MbUnit 2.4 RTM: Now you can use Decimals in Row attributes. « Vadim’s Weblog
David
MbUnit 2.4
Hello.
I would like to comment here about the fact that Agile development has so far steered away from the inevitable extension of a good idea - remote work. I don't believe that remote work in itself is incompatible with the central mission of a development initiative. Remote work, and remote team members, often seem to be scapegoated in projects where the real causes might be the quality of the tools used, or even the preconceptions of other team members and their reluctance to cooperate with their remote counterparts, thereby sabotaging the potential that remote members offer.
I have seen no study that objectively asks the question: Are remote team members more or less effective than collocated ones?
It frustrates me that so many people want to hold an opinion that is based on nothing but their opinion, so this is my opinion: Remote team members are equally as effective as their collocated counterparts.
My opinion isn't going to change untill I find some objective evidence showing me otherwise.
Owen.
Well this week was a nice rest, most of it spent relaxing with my wife. So it was a non-coding week but
You should really have to look at what this guy is saying about MCSE Certification. Some points he made are very solid and insightful.
Below is this week's list of useful .NET links for my weekly link-listing series . This morning I also
Below is this week's list of useful .NET links for my weekly link-listing series . This morning I
Hi Andy
I blogged about the other row test changes, take a look here:
hpoffice.cl/.../MbUnits-RowTest-improvements-in-version-2.4.aspx
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Seems that CombinatorialTest got lost on the way...
Looks like the MbUnit home page link is borked on his wiki too. Apparently its available for download from the NUnit home page.
Peli, I sent a note to Gerard about where the combinational test sits in the pattern scheme. He has stated that space prevents him from noting every single framework feature, although stated in my comments it did'nt make into the book.
Dan, I've asked Gerard to correct this, thanks for noting it.
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I too am using the hacked termserv.dll on a vista Home Premium machine. Works perfectly for the administartors. However, I'm trying to allow it for other users too. Does anyone know how?
I've tried creating a user group called "Remote Desktop Users" using the net localgroup CMD and assigning that group to my users (the kids) but RDP still says that a "the connection is denied because the user is not authorized".
Just so you guys know, one of the reasons Home, Home Premium, Diet Home and Home ZERO SUGAR are cheaper is because they don't include things like remote desktop, so don't hold your breath for an update that solves that.
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i have vista and xp on dual boot machine and i RDP all the time on the xp side of it but i fix the static ip for the vista machine because i use dsl and ip changes all the time. i have one user and thats the admin but when i connect to it i get the log in screen with user name and password but it saids the password is wrong for that user. i did not add the port of 3389 in vista yet because i have the log in screen and didnt see why i have to do that uac is off . i am running ult ver of vista. so i am now stuck at the log side of it. will post later if i fix it. that about it.
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Nice...
tests in code aren't the documentation how the code works internally. Some people seem to think that, but they just test the outer interface's behavior.
(here, interface is the broader definition of the word).
Furthermore, the debugger isn't a code reviewing toolkit. It's also not equivalent with debugging. A debugger is a tool used DURING debugging, but you can also debug without a debugger, you're then still debugging. Unittests don't make debugging time smaller, they just test the code written. I.o.w.: they are measures to see if what's written is correct, but if that's not the case (test fails) they can't tell you WHERE the cause of that is and WHY, they just tell you that something is wrong.
Solving that is a puzzle. Most of the time, you don't need a debugger at all, just common sense.
So, what you tried to tell with the post, I have no idea... perhaps you wanted to illustrate that writing tests is making your code more robust. I can agree with that, but that has nothing to do with debugging, using a debugger or understanding how code works. In libraries with hundreds of classes and a lot of code, you can stare at your unittests all day, but you still won't understand how it works INTERNALLY.
That's something that shouldn't be overlooked, i.e.: documenting how stuff works internally is still required, no matter how much unittests you write.
I agree that debugging is not a code reviewing tool, your preaching to the wrong guy Frans. I also agree that finding a bug will require you to debug, BUT to do that you can zero in, quickly on what you need to debug down to a small unit of code that with out tests would be a much wider\time costly exercise.
Your point about understanding how something works internally is an interesting one. Tests as executable units in accordance to your user requirements/user stories tell you exactly what is going on. Again you can zero in on an area that you wish to work on with out fear of whats going to happen on wider scale and in a lot, lot, less degree of time it would take than a wild walk with the breakpoint.
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Agree 100%. However iterations are not just for Agile development processes. Everywhere you will find processes with short iterations representing the minor epicycles of the process. Where Agile differs is in polishing and releasing the results of each cycle to get immediate feedback from stakeholders. Other processes will stretch things out. I expect very few are in such disarray as to never exhibit cyclic behavior.
I can't tell you how many times I've gotten stuck writing code because I had an incomplete picture of where I was going with it and I encounter unexpected difficulties. It's a difficult balance to find. Documenting everything up front is a doomed endeavour and embarking on a journey without a destination is pure folly. Cutting away enough of the problem to be confident in your approach is the only hope. And of course deciding what to cut away is why we have team meetings!
Just rename your project and it will solve your problem
Try follwing when connecting from e.g. XP to Vista Home Premium:
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For many developers, the current infatuation with unit testing has taken a bad turn, in my opinion. A colleague of mine recently attended a week long seminar taught by a somewhat famous coding guru. I won’t say who the instructor was for fear of embarrassing him in a few years when he understands the folly of his youth. My colleague came back to work bragging that “So-and-so hasn’t used a debugger in 3 years because his unit testing discipline is so strong. I’m never going to use a debugger again.” Wow! I didn't have the heart to tell my co-worker that the lecturer had been teaching full time over the past 3 years which explained why he could make such an outrageous statement.
That same co-worker came to me a week later with a seemingly difficult problem he had been trying to solve for hours. He was out of options or so he thought. I listened to his problem and said, “Let’s run your code in the debugger to see what it’s doing.” He stood idly by while I fired up the debugger. Within one minute, I had found the root cause of the problem. The problem was very simple and the debugger exposed it brilliantly. On exception, some of the code my friend was depending on was throwing a new exception without attaching the old exception as the InnerException. The debugger let me inspect what was happening and to SEE the real root cause.
In this case, even the finest unit tests in the world wouldn’t have uncovered the real problem. My friend’s tests uncovered THAT there was a problem but they could never have found the root cause given that the code was hiding it. My advice is to use debuggers for what they are good for and to use unit tests for what they are good for. Furthermore, while unit tests are good for setting expectations about what code should and shouldn’t do, they depend heavily on the developer’s understanding of the boundary conditions. When working with complex business logic, the perimeter of understanding is often limited by many factors which are beyond the developer’s control. It’s very good to unit test prolifically. It’s better to use it with an arsenal of tools including debugging, profiling, functional automation, object mocking, etc.
What’s baffling about this current generation of developers is that they claim to embrace the open source movement. I know I do because I truly love using the debugger to step through the source code for Spring.NET, NHibernate, log4net, NAnt and so many other brilliant bodies of work. Stepping through a factory pattern implementation in Spring.NET, for example, is often like drinking from a fire hydrant of knowledge. And once in a while I’ll stumble on something in the code that I know could be done with much more efficiency. So, I’ll pop out of the debugger and pop into my profiler to confirm my suspicions. Then I’ll extend a class or two and pop back in to EACH AND EVERY ONE of my tools make sure everything is just as I expect it to be. Voila! The code runs 8 times faster under heavy load and I have much more confidence because I've actually SEEN IT working inside and out.
What I don’t understand, to be honest, is that if developers love free source code so much, why are so many of them afraid to step through it as it’s running? If developers are not going to use the debugger as part of their learning ritual (or at a minimum, for faster triage), why do they need the source code at all?
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Chto s holodami ne v lada. Zelda Herakleides.
And you often drive your motorcycle without a helmet.
- developing on the production server, especially heavy database queries
No explanations, no support
There should be at least something about unhappy customers - or is there no actual downside to cowboy behaviour?
Unwillingness to listen to reason.
Unwillingness to be a team player
Please -- I turn 39 in a couple of weeks. You are not old!
Happy Birthday!
Gosh, you serious? You are old! :-D
happy b-day!
advanced happy birthday!
～_～
happy birthday!
Happy birthday!
BTW, what happened to the development builds @ www.mbunit.com/downloads.aspx
It seems that no more dev builds are available since more than two months ago.
What about a MbUnit beta release for your birthday? ;-)
Don't think of this as being another year older; Think of it as being another year closer to death. Seriously, I am almost 50 and have been writing software for 28 years. If it wasn't for this, I would have to find real work.
31 is the worst! When you turn 30, they throw you a big party. When you turn 31... you're just old :)
I'm 40.
How about 52 ! Have been writing software since 1979 and still enjoying the work (most of the time).
Happy birthday! :)
We also use MbUnit heavily on our team at Oxygen in New York City, and we're also hiring a couple of great developers to work on our XP/Scrum team. <a href="jobs.codebetter.com/ShowJobDetails.aspx our ad.</a>
If you come and interview and explain how a CombinatorialTest works in MbUnit, there's a VERY good chance you're making it to the next round. :-)
I turn 31 tommrow, gee I am getting old. Read More......( read more )
Happy Birthday mate, sorry I didn't say it sooner - been away from RSS Bandit.
Btw - i'm 22 :)
Work well. Just follow the first instruction.
Enable three things on the list.
Thx!
I'm just 28, thats how long some have been programmers, but I've already been working (payed) for 6 years, but programming 15 years.
31 is not old, age almost describes how much experience you have. =0)
Dont' worry, be hippie (happy) hehehe
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I was talking the other night with a friend about their interview experinces and in particular the how
Great post.
I think you forgot a few
Rule 6) Don't make an attempt to make the interviewee feel like an idiot. If it is clear they don't have knowledge/experience in a subject don't keep asking them more questions about that subject.
Rule 7) Don't eat lunch while performing the interview.
Rule 8) Don't bring laptops into the interview in order to 'ask' them questions. And REALLY don't IM others in the room during the interview.
If you could not tell, I have had a few bad experiences in the past.
Great Post..
I agree Derik though on point 6 and 7
I upgraded our CCNet CI server to 1.3 today . I also noticed that Eden has updated his CCNet stat upgrades
If you're hiring anything but the most junior position, test and test hard. Make it a surprise, don't make it a surprise, whatever..but for the love of god, give them at least 30 minutes written tests and 10-20 scripted oral questions specifically about the technology they'll be using most and programming in general. Knowing the difference between a linked list and an array or a small function so a unit test passes, should be trivial to anyone - even under interview pressure.
Karl
Some slightly older guides knocking about on the web, the easiest way of adding MbUnit to CCNet is to
I agree and disagree Karl. A 10 point written and vocal test is a usless as it comes as you have no idea as how the candidate is thinking about a problem and more clearer idea of what they can remember. It's better to a test a candidiate when you a referance to do so in the code example.
The example should be a problem solving sample that forces the candidate to consider logic and iteration. For example a friend once had to code an example that tested how long a message would take on different kinds of 3 letter keypads (such as a mobilephone). It mixed data structures such as arrays with iteration and logic.
Asking a candidiate as to why they used an array or a linkedlist and what a possible refactoring could be in the code example gives you a far better idea of their understanding and there use of that understanding.
Some lightly older guides knocking about on the web, the easiest way of adding MbUnit to CCNet is to
Hello
I am Lucy, I have found your website while searching for some info at Google. Your site has helped me in a big way.
Bye
Fantastic link and true to life!
Well the evidence is clear, Subversion is the clear winner
Thnx to all.
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can anyone let me know how to send the xml from client to the server which is using vb.net.
Around February will be the start of something new for me, I'll be a dad. Read More......( read more
That's the most wonderfull thing that can happen to you. It change your life and you can't compare the experience with nothing else. Congrts and my best wishes to you and your relatives...
GA
I am happy for you
Congratulations.. I am recent "NEW DAD" as well. When will you have the OpenSource Family Web site for sharing pictures and "FIRSTS?"
Congrats Andrew. That's good news!
Congrats! I'm expecting to be a Dad in February too!
congrats. happened to me 12 weeks ago. amazing experience. if you want some advice, make sure you have a nice new bit of handheld consumer electronics like a n95 or psp (not a laptop) to keep you occupied during the long nights when baby wont sleep.
Congratulations, Andrew!
The experience will change you forever.
What day? Feb 23 here.
Congratulations Andrew!
Andy, Grats Mate! It will change your life believe me...but for the better.
Have anyone got any feedback on the wf engine mentioned here.
Many thanks
Leo
To speed up the creation of solutions like these, I've created two templates to plug into Visual
I'm in search for a Sr.Software Engineer who has experience using MbUnit, CruiseControl and has a interactive development style. Position is with a BioScience company located in the Boston, MA area. If interested or know of someone who would be please contact me as soon as possible.
Thank you,
Jake
briggjk@kellyservices.com
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I know how you feel. =) Next month for me, and I'm scared out out of my mind. =P
Congrats Andrew, 8 weeks ago I started the same new thing and, most of the time :-), it's really wonderful. I am wishing your wife and you all the luck.
Keep away customers until the software is released
I know this thread is a bit old now but do you have any good examples of implementation CC.Net for web applications, considering the amount of assets that care included with websites, i.e. css and images, which will then ultimately be used as an entire website build.
I have struggled to find good examples online as all of them deal with class libraries and applications.
Andrew, many managers do not like asking candidates to fill out code samples because those candidates might get their friends to do it instead of them.
Though you can easily root this out during the interview process by asking them questions on the code sample they provided, what ways could you get around this? (without sending ninjas to investigate of course).
Not often I get the jump on it's old master but MbUnit answers Peli's post on unit testing generics
I'm pleased that someone has noticed the extra documentation :-)
Now to add some sample code to each page so that we make it even more useful.
Please let me know if you don't like the layout or I've made any mistakes.
-dave
I'll admit my design skills are naff (not very good) and I am looking for someone with some great
Thanks for sharing this, I'd been hunting around for a good solution :-)
Andrew, by design skills, do you mean graphic design or architecture? I have a little bit of the former and a little bit more of the latter. ;)
Regardless, I'm interested in knowing what you've got baking.
--Mike
I am interested and willing to help you with that.
Here is my resume: http://navin.biz
I know a guy you might be interested in... email him at email (at) justinpardee.com
~mike
Yes it would be very good for me to work with you and learn some new thing related to graphic or an architecture.
I am a final year computer student and doing my project on SMS based Application so I also need some prototype for that and may be by doing with you i would learn definitely.
waquas@gmail.com
Mike, I am after a graphic\ux designer and can cook me a killer ux :)
Waqas, I'll be talking more about design in relation to code in the coming months. Y
Your both welcome to ping me using the contact form as nothing is set in stone yet but I'd welcome your thoughts.
Opensource is a funny old game, we do it for love (of software) and not love of money. You work when
Andrew, I just wanted to say thanks for developing MbUnit. I'm just starting to get into it (I'm an NUnit holdover) but NUnit just isn't keeping up with the feature set.
Andrew, I just released an open source .net "room" (aka network) in The Lounge.
montylounge.com/.../DotNet.aspx
Essentially users can take the code and place it on their blog, site, etc and it will rotate through advertisement of our favorite .net projects.
I know it's not coding help but it's a good way to spread the word and have your users help support mbunit and other open source .net projects.
let me know if you're interested.
A few people are running the code on theirs blogs right now. I'd love to include MBUNIT.
Let me know.
Is there ZaneBug support for 2.4RTM?
Second Annual Contribute to Open Source Day
There are plenty of companies making money off of OSS. Microsoft, Novell, Sun, IBM, Intel, Mozilla, SourceForge, all the Linux distros.
It's not a funny old game at all.
William, some companies do quite right, but most of us in the OSS game are not in it for love of money, for most of us it's a funny old game.
Ryan,
Asking questions about the code sample will soon show if they coded it ot not. How and why they approached the problem, what did they miss and how might it be better. If the problem is complex enough to draw a few hundred lines of code then if a candidiate did'nt write the code it will quickly become obvious they did'nt write it. I'd ask candidates for a test suite to go with the code, asking questions as to how they tested, why they tested and it could be better demands that they have understanding of the code.
Prehaps a better example might be to provide some code, provide some tests and then provide a set of refactorings. If the candidate can implement the tests, the refactorings and talk to you as the interviewer about it then it demands they understand what and why they have approached the problem the way they have. Half the skill in understanding how candidates resolve a problem is the use code reviews.
Rob has been busy, creating two SonicCasts :) MVC and using SubSonic MVC templates . Rails from a ASP
I am no R# Jedi so it could very well do this but I found my self wanting R# to check old code for Microsoft
FxCop can check MS naming conventions. Maybe somebody could borrow it's rule code, and apply it to resharper?
I'm pretty certain there's a resharper bug about this, which mentions a more comprehensive naming system they'll be implementing. I was actually surprised that this functionality wasn't already in there.
devAdvantage is out of business, so they moved it to the open source.
It's wild friday afternoon idea time but it's occured to me that a very cool R# feature could
Well that's what our SmartSearch feature of the Koders plugin does www.koders.com/info.aspx
It does a background search while you're writing code to see if it can find similar methods. It's not as sophisticated as you've described...yet.
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For the fun of it I spent most of this afternoon using this dark VS theme , and pushed the font size
my eyes!!! lol kinda fun to play with but I wouldn't use it to actually write code with.
I've used white-schemes for a long time with VS versions starting from the days of VB 5. Recently my company required me to work on Unix with vi. I couldn't bare it and used gvim with white colored scheme.
But recently, I tried out a dark scheme on VS and now I'm hooked. One probelm that i ran into was when copy/pasting code into a WYSIWYG editor (e.g. on a blog). Since VS copies them in rich text format, and the colors are suited for a dark background, postig it on site with lighter colored backgrounds requires you to reformat the code. Nothing to worry about though. Just a small annoyance.
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Thanks for the link Andrew.
For reference, I don't actually use the scheme myself anymore. I never explicitly decided to stop using, it just wasn't something I setup again after my reformat. I think it's more the cange that makes it cool - so for me, going back to the white theme gave me the same experience again.
One of the points often raised is that MbUnit lacks a finishing professional touch and it's something
Great stuff, Andy and all. Thanks!
vanity is one of the worst sins...
yes, c# can indeed be used (and is prefferable in my opinion) in mono for web development, dee, it would be interesting to know where you got this "information" about c# only being used by desktop developers, as c++ is totally different to c#, c++.net is the .net equivalent
ok my question is , would anyone know a workaround to debug asp.net apps in mono, i know in windows you can use the dgbclr and attach it to the asp.net process, is there any hacky way that one can tell mono to attach to another thread?
I am interested in cranking out a C# to Parrot compiler. While I wont be around to get any replies to this message, I have been working on possibilities for retargeting GCC to Parrot bytecode (tech. diffic. are there; not intractable though), a BASIC to Parrot compiler (get new people started), and a dynamic, SSA-like language for optimization.
I have also considered applying tools like TXL, JANUS or Semantic Design's software to aid in translating the Python Standard Library and any other Python code to something that will run on Parrot. It will probably be VERY slow, but it will give us something to use immediately (after its built) until the stuff is handcoded.
I have currently been working on these in either preliminary stages or the system level. If someone would get a C# to C converter going, perhaps we could have something running on Parrot sooner, as someone could make a subset of C for easy conversion to PIL or PASM. (C-- comes to mind)
So far, Janus claims to be able to translate full COBOL to languages like C++ or Java. I say apply transformation technologies to our current problems, and crank out a working runtime for Python on Parrot rapidly, able to reuse existing code by a recompile.
Can anyone tell me why C# on Parrot will be "10x-30x slower than CLR?" I haven't seen a justification for that, as Parrot supports many of the static language features, and could run some variation of C# more dynamic features, like reflection. As a matter of fact, it was made to handle things like that specificially. I think that if you can reduce C# down to an IL, with an available grammar, you could produce PASM code that has reasonable performance, esp. if optimizations are used.
I lack much knowledge of C#, as I have only browsed a few books listing its features/semantics, so I would appreciate any feedback about why we would get a slowdown on Parrot, causing a speed deficit that's as big as the difference between pure Java bytecode and hand-optimized assembly.
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Have any of you checked out the Workflow Framwork found in .Net3? Why would that not fit your needs?
I am also curious about the Microsoft one. I hope you don’t have to have Sharepoint services or servers as a requirements. I am getting ready to play with it. I looked into Bonita one time and then the ASPOSE workflow for .net, but was not able to get a .net one that I was confident in. Any suggestions are appreciated.
Everything all right?
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When I use Visa RD to connect Terminal server, it always said wrong ID or Password, but when I use XP RD to connect TS is fine. What happens??
How did you managed to run it? I installed it but monodevelop just doesnt run :( cannnot load gtk# and others.. :(
Thank you very much Ben, Dan, Andy and ALL. These Docs would be very helpful. You all are making big difference in the way MbUnit is being used.
Paintshow is a good teaching tool
I use Eclipse Blacksun plug-in to develop C# apps under linux. I've tested MonoDevelop but it lacks some features that Eclipse have, like CTRL+SHIFT+R, o code formatter, and others.
I'm waiting to see Eclipse release a C# version, like Java environment that its really excellent.
I saw once Emonic, another plug-in, but it seems to be alpha yet.
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I wrote an article "Learn the new NUnit 2.4 Constraint-Based Assert Model" that covers the built-in Assert (Constraint) Classes in more detail:
blog.troyd.net/PermaLink,guid,21b4cfe8-9d82-443f-86a5-db2d93d6e617.aspx
Thanks!
thanks - it worked for me too
Scott's last post had a link to a new opensource Lisp project for the DLR, called IronLisp (in homeage
Phils latest point is a cracker . Microsoft cannot for a lot of reasons bundle OSS and if they do what
"Cracker"? Is that an Aussie term for a good thing or a bad thing? ;)
well considering I am an englishman it's english for the ozzy term of 'played a blinda' which translates as 'very good' :)
The MbUnit 2.4.1 release was released tonight , this adds some bug fixes and additional functionality
I want to extend my thanks to the following commerical software projects who have donated a license to
What about a 2.0 build of mbunit? :)
I think you can also look at this from another angle - who is involved? They generally fall into a few categories:
* Enterprises (not SMEs in general).
* Developers who cater to enterprises.
Enterprises are generally risk averse when it comes to software, unless they exist to build software. Therefore they generally choose safe options (ASP.NET/J2EE), even though the best option might be something else. The 80/20 rule means that make compromises. Startup organisations generally can't make the same types of compromises because they have to gain an audience. To see this in action compare the level of consideration given to UI design and performance for the end user. Enterprises often make many compromises in these areas. Startups who make these compromises are dead in the water.
Startups often have a younger cadre of developers, straight from university. They don't have the baggage a lot of enterprise developers have. Enterprises have a particular culture, benefits etc that attempt to encourage a 9-5 work style, and compromises for political or other reasons. Since startup developers are not exposed to this they look towards the best tools that do the job for them. This means the way they work is alien to enterprise developers. The potential for long work hours etc mean that you have a higher level of automation in some cases, and a duct tape and string approach (until you can afford a better implentation). Tools like Rails are seen as safe to the startup developer because they offer a quality approach that speeds them up, yet has a 'reasonable' foundation.
(All of the above are generalisations and I'm still trying to form my own thoughts in this area. I think it also highlights that a lot of developers would benefit from a little reading on business strategy etc in addition to open source (licencing) etc that many do these days)
I have commented many times on tools on our project, and how we were still using VSS 2005 and not TFS
what i dont get any of this
Try Allegro CL, its free for personal use and very comprehensive: www.franz.com/downloads
Time for another weekly roundup of news that focuses on .NET and general development related content
James Avery has a link to Jeff Eaton post that asks "Why not ASP.NET [for startup's]?"
a sample case study on cholecystitis
Master Jedi Jeff had an itch in between Gallio coding and over on the Gallio contrib coded up a Instrumentation
I based this post from a post by Sebastien Pouliot , I was so thrilled that I wanted to write it up here
It's in reflector too: blog.dotnetwiki.org/FunWithGraphs8WhereAreMyHotMethodsOrMethodRankingAddinForReflector.aspx
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I am trying to RDT from an XP Pro machine at work to a Vista Ultimate machine at home. I am connected to the internet via a free wireless internet service provided by the city. I created an account at No-IP.com and set it up for my home connection. I also enabled the setting for remote desktop at home. I got back here and found that I can't connect. I tried pinging the IP address and address from No-IP.com and it's not seeing it. Any ideas on what I may have missed? BTW, no home network or router. I am just trying to connect through the City's wireless provider. Thank you for any advice and assistance.
I can't stress enough how happy I am with svn over vss or team system.
I was away on vacation this week and when ever I go away the week is eventful, I came back to the news
Sorry, I didn't see support for [Timeout] when looked through the MbUnit DLLs (my experience with MbUnit is fairly limited). I've updated the Wiki to reflect it.
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Members of the MbUnit team will be on the road in the coming months. Jeremy alluded to the fact that
I guess the cat is out of the bag now. ;-)
You can use flextense for accessing the .net web services.
www.flextense.net
You can check out this *excellent* guide over dotnetslackers.com here
dotnetslackers.com/.../InversionOfControlAndDependencyInjectionWithCastleWindsorContainerPart1.aspx
Actually, there are 4 tutorials building on top of each others. A must for people wanting to get started with the Windsor Container and IoC/DI in general.
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After I did the first step (see figure C), I was able to remote in. I already had the other settings mentioned above set up. Be careful following all steps here. I hear there are problems with browsing some SLL pages if you enable FIPS (figures F & G).
Cheers!
J
i have a problem finding information on the topic
"problems and issues of collecting of information via webforms" I was wondering if any one can help me with some urls or any information ,
Check the settings under computer/remote
Make sure you enable incoming RDP sessions from sources other than the ones that do network authentication and you should be set. XP RDP will use local authentication rather than network.
Hope that helps.
Yes, Please post views or experiences on APOSE workflow and .NET3 Workflow framework.
Also next month Peli takes Pex on the road to show-case his new framework at the Seattle codecamp , not
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Next month I'll be talking about MbUnit at the AgileNorth 2007 conference , this is a one day event
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Hi everyone. Please could you clarify something for me, i'm a bit confused....
I have a computer at home running XP Professional.
I would like to remote access the computer via my Laptop (which is running Windows Vista Premium)...
To have the desktop of the XP Pro Computer at home on the Laptop (Premium Vista)...
Is this possible please!!!
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With all the AJAX / Web 2.0 hype lately, I've been thinking about what's next for Javascript (the J in
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link for func. web testing article not there already. 2 years seems too quick. :)
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Hi guys..
This is very weird... I can't connect to my Vista Ultimate from any XP (pro) box here anymore.
A few weeks ago I RDed from a friend of mine to my Vista box to show him something, worked just fine. But now I can't connect to the Vista box anymore..
Really weird.
RDC is enabled to except all connections and opened up in firewall (windows firewall since I'm doing this in my home network, router is out of the picture).
Any ideas how I could fix this?
Thanks in advance.
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Excelent information. Best wishes from New York.
Pingback from Revised MbUnit site and docs
Been off the radar these last few weeks, lots of reasons why but getting back to speed slowly. Ben gave
Good luck on Thursday Andy
Do I need to uninstall my 1.0 version before downloading this? May I request any online tutorial on getting started with MbUnit?
Well hopefully no storms :) I am here at AgileNorth, due to a hitch with the internet my track has switched
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Great idea. I have used the SqlRestoreInfo in MBUnit and found it solved the database rollback problem.
The only thing is that an equivalent "AccessRestoreInfo" does not exist. Care to implement it in the future for MBUnit?
Gallio / MbUnit v3 Alpha 1!
JJ said:
JJ - did you get an answer??
I was also shocked when I knew about NDoc. What happened? I thought NDoc is a stable tool. If it’s dead, what is it that replaced its position? Anything new? Do you think NDoc will come back again probably rise from the dead…resurrect and make a comeback?
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Hi could anyone help me how to write the code for retrieving .flv files from the database using .Net 2.0 as backend and Flex 2.0 as frontend.
Will look forward to
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MbUnit has achieved a lot in 2 and half years, it was around that time that Peli joined Microsoft and
Pingback from Jay-z » MbUnit and some news
And Bec Bell said: Did you get an answer??
I have the problem as JJ. Can anyone help? Thx, DJ
Pingback from Jay-Z » Blog Archive » MbUnit and some news
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I've not used Spec#. Having read the PDF on it, there are a few things I don't care for too much (expose seems like a bad idea to me... the bounds for when invariants don't need to hold should be between any calls to public methods). All in all, though, it's beyond time we finally get DbC into our languages, so I hope you're correct about this prediction. Microsoft would have to go back and update a lot of code to take advantage of this, though.
It's that time of year again and a custom on my blog to look back at my predictions for this year
I had the same problem. I would like to remote desktop from vista premium home into xp. please tell us how...
Can't wait for C# 4.0 and also, more reviews about Singularity next year!
It's that time of year again and a custom on my blog to look back at my predictions for this year, relect
I have disabled UAC after it was working, I suspect that stopped some authentication parts of it too.. hence why it's not working anymore.
I'll try and re-enable it after I go home today see if it works.
Sorry for offtopic,
I'm implementing an Asp.Net testing framework, and I need my fixture to be created in another AppDomain, the same as Asp.Net lives in. Looking at the MbUnit code, I figured out that it's not the fixtures I really need, but some class that's created earlier in the process, like FixtureExplorer or something. What I really need is a class created via the CreateApplicationHost() method -- the fixtures will be automatically created in the same domain.
Is it possible to accomplish that without modifying the MbUnit's code?
Thanks a lot
ulu
Ian has a good post on Java developers moving to the Scala language rather than Ruby and asks.... Maybe
I think you just described the F# language which Microsoft recently annointed as an "officially supported" project instead of a MS Labs project.
As I understand it, its essentially a different evolution of C# towards achieving functional programming capeabilities. Therefore its familiar to C# developers, but at the same time is not trying to "be" C#.
oops!, one more language? how many languages are we going to implement, learn then drop, then go for another. Does it do any good other than making developers life a hell?
At some point we have to stop and focus on making good use of available languages.
http://www.ms-dn.com
#gizmo, interesting and valid point. To help build in good design pratice some languages need the use of design patterns, some languages however have this built in. While making good use of available languages is a must the development of this pratices into the language can help good use.
#codesniper, yeap F# is Microsofts functional language but what I am wondering is if Don and his team can work closely with the CLR team so F# (and other languages) could use more services from the CLR.
Pingback from » Daily Bits - January 8, 2008 Alvin Ashcraft’s Daily Geek Bits: Daily links plus random ramblings about development, gadgets and raising rugrats.
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I'm a freelance software engineer. I do most of my work remote. I work both solo and in virtual teams.
I know what I personally get out of working virtual. I have the best, quietest, best equipped office of my career. I've got all the tools and reference resources in one place. I control the environment. I have flexibility to work when I'm most productive - and do things that improve my quality of life. I feel this helps me deliver higher quality to my clients than if I were in a cube farm. They are happy with my work - and keep paying me to do more for them.
However, I'm not as clear how being a virtual team benefits the client or the team. My question to the group is - what are the benefits to team and customer for being virtual and do these benefits outweigh the costs?
Jim
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Yes, it is difficult to get rid of obsolete technology books. I've been trying to sell my Visual J++ books for a long time. Nobody wants my Windows NT certification exam books. Recently I tried to sell a lot of Visual Basic books and even they did find any buyers.
Our house lately has been a mine of change, 2 new windows, 1 new boiler, and stripped/paint/wallpaper
<blockquote>So I started the task of reducing books, packing them into boxes (just can't bring myself to sell them) for storage.</blockquote>
I put things in boxes. If I haven't opened the box in three years... I toss the whole thing out. I don't have the room to keep a bunch of stuff I might use someday, when I know I'll never touch it.
Old technical books only have value as recycled cardboard.
I also tossed out all my old MSDN CDs, and software which dates back to pre-WinXP. I have no more floppies in my house, or cassete tapes, etc.
Dee, Aside from VB having an overly verbose and bloated syntax (IMO) it is no more or less suited than any .NET language for desktop or web dev.
I found myself in a similar situation when I moved. The best thing to do with old books is take them to a charity shop. They'll sort, sell and recycle them for you. :)
Oh and be ruthless! If you box them up you'll almost certainly never look at them again. Recycle them now while they might still have some value to someone.
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Why would someone want to write freeware so MS can profit... I would recommend joining the freeware movement and choose another programming languge... that is if you want to use freeware software
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I don't think there's any documentation tool that can generate output which is 'usable'. We utilize technical writers to take care of the entire gamut of API documentation. The work is accomplished partly manual and partly automatic through easily available documentation tools. Our API documents are really 'usable' now and a real asset.
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Guys,
I have problem to connect Vista home premium to Xp sp2 pc. Is this possible? It seems from above posts you can do it.
We have Firepass VPN service by college.
My college pc is Xp and my laptop Vista. Xp to Xp rdp was working but i couldn't connect from Vista to xp using rdp.
Can you please suggest me how to do this?
can u please tell me the topics from which questions are asked in microsoft internships
we can test it by checking it for zero and -1 and 1
then chekc for any arbit number and for 1000 .. it should give values
then take any two consecutive numbers and find factorial of the two n! = n * (n-1)!
then calculate the number of digit output it is giving
For functional web testing for the .NET platform, see <a href="http://www.InCisif.net">InCisif.net</a>.
(C#, VB.NET, IronPython, Visual Studio, Express Edition)
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- C#, VB.NET or IronPython.
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anyway, enough of this, i see enough of you throughout the day and theres a glass of vodkacoke with my name on it.
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This is a personal post , some of these seem to escape into feed aggs so feel free to ignore this if
C# has slowly been leaking in functional staples first with closures (using external variables in anonymous methods) in 2.0 and now full on lambda expressions in 3.0.
What's the saying there are two types of programming languages: Functional Languages, and those that strive to be Functional.
With Darceys arrivial this month I've not really being pay much attention to the various announcements
This release won't include unit tests. I'd like to, but it really depends on resources etc...
One problem right now is we use some internal tools we can't release. I'd like to switch over to open source tools for the unit tests, but then we don't want to be seen endorsing one tool over another. Not to mention the time cost in rewriting many tests.
However, if we can make a strong case for why we picked one tool because it served our *specific* needs, I think we may be good.
Pingback from Daily Links - February 24, 2008 | Alvin Ashcraft's Daily Geek Bits
<blushes>
You're too kind. ;-)
"What I can't figure out is why not attempt to run Python\Ruby on Tamarin?"
You mean why instead of re-using an existing implementation they don't re-implement both from scratch... no wait... ;-)
Todays Flex 3 announcement also carried with it the announcement of an Adobe OSS site . I was looking
Pingback from Daily Bits - February 25, 2008 | Alvin Ashcraft's Daily Geek Bits
Savan,
You can't RDC using Vista Home Edition. It doesn't have that option on that version.
Sorry.
I have been watching the development of IronLisp, a Lisp compiler for the DLR for a while now . A little
Back in 2006 I wrote about the co\contra variance generics support in .NET , fast foward to today and
If you need to remote a vista PC (any version) remotely (not in the same site) and securely, then simply use the www.logmein.com free version. This creates a secure connection from the machine to control to logmein servers, you then logon to their web interface and choose the PC/Server to control and it opens it in your browser.
It's not lightning fast but perfectly good for remote control, browsing, configuration etc. It's got very good encryption, works over HTTP so will go via routers already and can be accessed via work proxies too.
What happened to NSpec? I am not sure if all of you know but the NBehave project consolidated with the
Implementing IronMonkey *will* require work on the VM. For example it likely means implementing 'DynamicMethod' which is needed for proper support of dynamic languages.
I was having the same problem, and found that if you are using Vista 64 bit, then you need to get the 64 bit version of PHP. Go here to get it: www.fusionxlan.com/PHPx64.php
Download php-5.2.5-x64-2007-11-12.zip (or a newer one if it's available) then extract the contents of the "php-5.2.5 (x64)" folder to your php folder.
I wondered if there had since been movement from Microsoft on getting other test frameworks integrated into Team System?
Lately I've been drafting posts on my daily commute and post them up in batches (just in case you
Phil has some good thoughts on ASP.NET MVC preview 2 and beyond.   A couple of key things that I
Thanks Andy.
Besides the MVC templates, I also added ordinary templates for test projects and test fixtures. Check 'em out!
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Good post.
> Jeremy’s most recent post talked about using static and integration styles in your tests..
I think here you mean "state" when you say "static" and "interaction" when you say "integration". Dunno though, but that's the way I read it.
Personally I think its often reasonable to test a little group of classes together, not least as it gives you more wiggle room for refactoring.
> One thing that is worth mentioning about integration is that integration means as light as you can make it
I was also wondering, you don't talk about entities/value objects and so on...do you stub/mock them out to achieve lightweight interaction tests?
Kate,
We did get my Vista laptop to connect successfully to my XP desktop. To do so, on the desktop we simply needed to install a newer version of Remote Desktop. We got it here:
www.microsoft.com/.../details.aspx
Pingback from Enlaces: ASP.NET, ASP.NET AJAX, ASP.NET MVC y .NET « Thinking in .NET
I am a previous developer, now tech writer who uses Innovasys HelpStudio and Document! X and find it's part automated, part manual process very developer oriented and easy to use. The tools including Document! X and HelpStudio really do everything you need to pull in your API and create rich text and VS context sensitive help files.
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You can find one written in C#, ASP.NET with MySql back end www.codeplex.com/evpodc
I'm a big proponent of CVS. It can run anywhere, and repository administration is little more than creating a directory in a filesystem. Compare that with the overhead of creating a whole MySQL database, which may or may not be possible in your development environment (can you say "Oracle ONLY in THIS shop!"). A vast majority of this things that people purport as advantanges for SVN are only minor annoyances with CVS, and do not, in my opinion, make it a clear winner over CVS. How many people have lost days worth of work (or sleep!) waiting for a 2-minute tag operation to complete?
In my humble opinion, CVS is the clear winner.
I am integrating MbUnit tests for a project I'm working on that our CCNET implementation is building. I have an NAnt script that compiles the solution and runs the MbUnit tests.
When I run the NAnt script manually from a command line, I get a successful build. However, when I run the same script via CCNET, I get the following error message:
Build Error: NAnt.Core.BuildException
Unexpected engine error while running Tests
at MbUnit.Tasks.MbUnitTask.ExecuteTests(FileSet assemblySet)
at MbUnit.Tasks.MbUnitTask.ExecuteTask()
at NAnt.Core.Task.Execute()
at NAnt.Core.Target.Execute()
at NAnt.Core.Project.Execute(String targetName, Boolean forceDependencies)
at NAnt.Core.Project.Execute()
at NAnt.Core.Project.Run()
I do not want to mess with the configuration files since there are 10 other projects on this server and this project is the only one that's using MbUnit instead of NUnit.
Any ideas?
You can RDP from XP by using the IP:port number, i.e., 10.224.1.100:3391; If you have more than one computer on a network you will need to use port forwarding within your router so it will know what IP and port to access on a particualr computer...of course you will need to enable the remote connection options mentioned earlier.
@Babak
Dunno about your NAnt problem since in any case I am only using the Gallio test runners nowadays. You might try using an <exec> task to run MbUnit.Cons.exe.
(Or try Gallio Alpha 3 while we will release this weekend. Instructions on configuring CCNet are included in the installation folder under "extras/ccnet".)
However, you probably do want to take the time to edit the CCNet dashboard.config file. It's not hard. You can customize your reports by project so that only the MbUnit project is affected.
having same problem very frustrated.. yeah figured out the javascript thing, no biggie, only after 6 hours... BAH! so now its checking correctly, but when I findcontrol, the value always says unchecked??
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oh yeah. right. so .net user's don't have the right to use freeware software? you're such a guru.
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Pingback from time » Blog Archive » The work\life balance and my absence of late.
Many choices aren't between good and bad things, but between good and better things. Being a good father and a good husband I think is one of those better things. I'm glad you are making that choice.
I've enjoyed reading your posts and will continue to read any of your future posts...if you post any more. I'll just know you are making a better choice. ;-)
thank you for your coding travis
I had to step away from this issue for a while but I'm revisiting it. I've resolved some of hte issues I was having, but now I get the following error message from CC.NET and is preventing my progress:
Failed loading assemblies
Failed loading TestDomain
Failed loading assembly
The argument type 'MbUnit.Core.Filters.AnyTypeFilter' cannot be converted into parameter type 'MbUnit.Core.Filters.ITypeFilter'.
Object must implement IConvertible.
But you are say, that this idead is bad?,
I had the same error and I fixed it. I had other issues with Vista SP1, VS 2005 and IIS 7 and I have written a post here developershelf.blogspot.com/.../problem-loading-iis7-hosted-wap.html
Of course, but what do you think about that?,
Mike,
I tried to use rdc 6 running on my xp box and still cannot connect to vista home premium, even with the ip address and port number specified. Can you please tell me which remote connection options need to be enabled to make this work?
demos dont work :(
I liked short sales.
Pingback from Dew Drop - May 14, 2008 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
I have to agree with hammett. Although, codebehined is a step removed from the UI elements, codebehined at least from the ASP.NET model, is web page or page specific (ignoring inheritance).
The true sence of MVC is to create logical reusable business rules from a UI prespective but not specific or bound to any given UI (i.e. ASP.NET, WinForms, etc). In addition, MVC also shelters the UI from the implemenation details of any underlining BR, data access or service interface layers, etc.
You guys are awesome!!!!!
MbUnit ROCKSSSSS
You missed the MSBuild and NAnt runners. :)
Also, fear not, the [Factory] attribute will return in Alpha 4.
Pingback from jeff hugunin
The old CombinatorialTest was already a pairwize implementation? What's new? :)
Point taken Peli, I've edited the post to reflect that, the style is new and as much as I am aware the pairwisejoin is new. Unless I missed that in v2's inner depths, I'll double check next your online :)
I did Jeff, edited the post to reflect that :)
I began my work as a web developer with little concern for testing other than to see if IE or IIS threw any errors. Now, I assist with applications used in government work and testing is a big deal. Platforms such as Gallio help bridge the gap and shorten a journey which typically is quite uncomfortable for geeks like the one I am.
Peli is correct. Pairwise was already in MbUnit v2. We're using a new algorithm and completely different syntax for v3 though.
Actually, in MbUnit v2 the pairwise join was the default for [CombinatorialTest]. This actually led a few people to conclude that MbUnit was "broken".
So in MbUnit v3 the default join when there are multiple data sources present is now a cross-product. You can override the join by adding an attribute like [PairwiseJoin], [CombinatorialJoin] (default), [SequentialJoin] or create your very own if you wish.
Great stuff Jeff :), I think this needs a post all of it's own.
why doesn't
var values = from p in tbl_data
where
p.some_other_value == 'hello world'
group p by p.a_value into g
select g;
work for you?
Thanks, Frans that works too. My version used Generic Lists of IGrouping and your version IQueryable which is nicer. I figured there would be a nicer way of doing this but a) I was being stupid and b) crap at searching google.
Hum... I don't understand what you're trying to achieve and what the problem is.
I agree. Maybe you could write one... ;)
Also check out named data sources and binding attributes...
Hmm.. I touched on some different issues on my page.
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MDAs are useful diagnostics but can be somewhat insidious.
I get a disconnected context MDA when debugging Visual Studio add-ins under certain circumstances.
IIRC you can disable MDAs using environment variables and other options but that may only mask a deeper problem that is manifesting in debug mode. Granted it may not be a real bug in your code but rather a problem with the debugging environment, but allowing them to go unacknowledged could be detrimental to your debugging experience.
Actually, the MbUnit.Samples.sln in the Gallio source tree came about because loading All.sln into Visual Studio under debug would crash 75% of the time.
Thanks Jeff, the enviroment variable would be another option. Turning off this warning could mask a problem I agree but runs through the code with no debugging ran ok and I suspect as noted it is due to the long running nature of the batch process that is causing this one.
Sometimes this can show up when working with COM wrapppers such as VSTO and can also be a false warning but use with great care folks, as Jeff notes it can mask a true defect.
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I suppose if you are stepping through a long routine it could just be a message waiting to be delivered from an unmanaged thread. The code being stepped would look dead -- which is sort of is unless you let it go at full speed.
was an C++ Guru ... am now in C#/.Net .. but will soon have to go back to Ubuntu/C++..
i'm dreading C++ syntax... what do i do?
Python
Ruby
Mono/C#
Mono/Manage C++ (does it exist)
Make/vi/C++
Mac-Pro-10? with dual OSs + Ubuntu??? hmmm maybe yes!
Yes, you can see more about this here:,
Do you want to see good pics?,
What about sequence attribute?
Also cannot run test using R#4 am i missing something?
If you have a little free time, read this post:,
Sorry, the R# plugin model is version sensitive.
The next update (in a few days) will fully support the final release of R# 4.0.
What is this VB is better than C# crap? Let me tell you my story. I was using the VB6 IDE and wanted to learn about .NET for creating database applications. I went to Borders and they didn't have a VB.NET book, so I bought the C# book instead. I have MySQL and Apache running on a Ubuntu server. I am writing database applications with C# on a Win XP client through a Samba LAN. I actually prefer C#. Now I am interested in ASP.NET on a Linux box.
Hey I just gave this a shot but don't get mbunit as an option. I'm using visual web developer though, are there any templates available for it?
Sorry guys, VB is in no way superior to C#/C++.net.
realizing my poor programming skills, I am off to commit suicide.
Have you seen:
channel9.msdn.com/.../Expert-to-Expert-Contract-Oriented-Programming-and-Spec
Unrelated to this post, so feel free to delete :)
Happy 20th birthday :-)
Is it possible to have both NUnit and MBUnit options on the control panel / xsl.
The reason I ask is that I have some projects with unit testing with NUnit and some with MBUnit and all this overriding the default unittest.xml stuff makes me think that people are advocating one or the other.
-- Lee
Gallio includes instructions out of the box and a set of XSL templates and resources you can pretty much just drop into place in your CCNet install.
Are you saying that Gallio has xsl stylesheets that I can use with CC.NET to allow the Control Panel to..
A) Show a link to MBUnit results in the Control panel if the UnitTest program used to automatically test the project is MBUnit
Otherwise..
B) Show a link to NUnit results in the Control panel if the UnitTest program used to automatically test the project is NUnit.
I have a bad feeling that by altering the unittest.xsl stylesheet to accommodate either MBUnit or NUnit means you are locking your projects watched by cruise control into using only one of the testing programs.
Does this make sense?
Can you understand my concern?
I hope I am completely wrong. Please tell me if I am.
why not using the dot-notation?
var values = tbl_data.where(p => p.some_other_value == 'hello world').GroupBy(p => p.a_value).Select(p => p);
If you follow the instructions then you will end up with a Gallio test report which is universally applicable across MbUnit, NUnit, xUnit.Net, and MSTest at this time. Assuming you run the tests using one of the Gallio test runners like the command-line Gallio.Echo.exe, the MSBuild task, or any of the others.
Here's what it ends up looking like:
ccnet.gallio.org/.../ViewBuildReport.aspx
Notice there are two flavours of the report, a full one and a condensed one (only errors).
In any case, I certainly wouldn't recommend modifying unittest.xsl. There are other perfectly good ones for MbUnit.
Moreover you can copy, rename and tweak templates however you like. You can also select the ones you wish to use in the dashboard on a per-project basis using standard CCNet configuration options.
I turned 33 a few weeks ago, and I know (unfortunately) what you mean when you say you feel 50. Happy birthday anyway; and continue to produce high quality code for the Gallio project.
I can't believe Microsoft's decision to leave out RDC for some versions. That is ridiculous!
Pingback from Dew Drop - July 4, 2008 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
Наверное многие форумчане сидят В Контакте и им интересно все, связанное с этим проектом. Буквально на днях обнаружил вот что: <a href=vkontakte-info.msk.ru/>%D0%92%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B5 инфо</a>. Что это? Пародия? Плагиат? Новый проект? Вообщем, у кого, какие идеи - пишем тут.
Its about time to clear out the backlog. CLR/.NET/Visual Studio/TDD/ALT.NET Jeremy has a nice piece here
Just to give credit where it's due - there's an nunitForVS project on Codeplex that added this support for nunit to Visual Studio 2005.
www.codeplex.com/NUnitForVS
But nice work! It's nice to see plain old VS getting some love :-)
Cheers
Matt
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Speaking of credit...
Some of the recent changes to NUnitForVS contain code that looks awfully familiar to me. Kind of like it was lifted from Gallio.
BUT MISSING THE COPYRIGHT NOTICES!
Compare ServiceProvider.cs and NUnitTestPackage.cs with GallioPackage.cs, for example.
For what it's worth, I have contacted the author of one OSS project who borrowed code from Gallio and stripped off its license and copyright.
He appears to be somewhat new to the scene and was not familiar with licensing terms and mechanisms for attribution in general. However, I believe we will reach an amicable resolution in short order.
So that's good.
That said, this is an old tale; it concerns me.
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The link you're referring to is no longer available :(.
Would you please elaborate a little bit more on the solution you're finally found and describe it here?
I'm caught in the similar problem for the last few days and while farazmasoodkhan.wordpress.com/.../data-binding-observablecollection-can-be-update-from-other-thread and blog.quantumbitdesigns.com/.../wpf-cross-thread-collection-binding-part-4-the-grand-solution solutions were helpful in gaining some understanding, I still need some more. I'm using 3.5 and 3.5 SP1...
Thanks for all your contributions to the community,
-ms440
Is it written yet? I'd buy it right now.
We've got some work underway but it's still early. I'm hoping to push out an initial kernel of the docs in time for the next release.
Actually the main page for NUnitForVS does give credit to Gallio
"Parts of NUnitForVS uses code from Gallio http://www.gallio.org"
although they should have put in the correct attribution in the source files
cheers
benjy
Ultracet dosage and administration. Ultracet addiction. Ultracet.
Really interested in what issues we might have with upgrading from MbUnit v2 to v3 as it seems we need to in order to try Gallio (can it run MbUnit v2 tests?).
Interesting IOC, AOP news
Yes Gallio can run MbUnit v2.
Just be sure to use the exact same version of MbUnit v2 as is distributed with Gallio. You'll find it in C:\Program Files\Gallio\bin\MbUnit2.
Wow, Hammett too huh?
But hush, I don't want to move to Seattle...
i have a experience of vss for two years.sometimes, it might conflict when more than one team member trying to modify the same file, if you didn't check in, others can not edit it. it's not efficient for a big team.
another advantage of svn is that many free tools could be found while vss need microsoft's license.
i don't hate saving money.so, svn is my top priority choice.
NDepend ? I found it quite useful last time I had to do something like this.
- use a profiler to check which code is run often when you perform actions in the application
- use a code coverage tool to check which code is executed when you perform a given action X
- use code metrics to see which routine is referenced a lot etc.
- and AFTER you gathered those info, you can place debugger breakpoints and can step through code which needs further investigation.
But profiler and code coverage tool are a good start.
I created this tool sometime ago. Guess it doesn't solve all your problems, but it should be able to give you a good idea of dependencies between asseblies and projects.
www.codeplex.com/DependencyFinder
Get your hands on a CASE tool (e.g. enterprise architect) which is able to reverseengineer the code you have the sources for. Sometimes UML is the best way to tell you what/where/why.
In reply to a similar request I received last year, here is a collection of tools I suggested: weblogs.asp.net/.../net-reverse-engineering-tool-for-understanding-projects.aspx
NDepend is quite useful.
By the way, we are working on a tool like you imagined. Quite interactive, massive visualizing, ability to load .NET and Java assemblies/jar files, but at the moment we are only at the beginning of the implementation, so please wait. :)
Once we have finished, i will tell you more about the software, i promise.
Profiler + NDepend should help you out.
Good thing about NDepend is that you can drill down and ask more atomic questions.
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yup....Nice and informative and easy to read as well.
See. I've been trying to find an sln file so i can put it in visual c++ but once i drag my sln file inside it saids the selected file is not a valid soulution file
any help..?
please email me
thatsso_hot@hotmail.com
or add my aim.
stephurniiee
Will Visual Studio 2008 SP1 have all the necessary templates and when is it coming out?
Ray Akkanson
http://www.akkanson.com
I'll giving a talk on MbUnit at the next ThoughtWorks geek night here in Manchester, UK on the 27th of
I'll be giving a talk on MbUnit at the next ThoughtWorks geek night here in Manchester, UK on the
@Chad: The problem is that you're running Windows Vista
i want .NET coding for editor.....
i am having mini project on this..so please send me...
i am waiting for ur replies....
I have to work in this fashion (often with other people's legacy app's) all the time. I tend to find I can do everything I need to do with Resharper and a whiteboard.
I find that the navigation features of this tool the best thing at letting be traverse lots of code very quickly. I use the whiteboad (piece of paper, or set of index cards if I have to) to model out the interactions and dependencies.
The parts of resharper I tend to use:
- FindUsages (let's me find what parts of code depends on this method/variable, etc)
- HighlightUsages in file (gives me an indication about how a member variable might be a key/peripheral concept)
- GoToInheritor (gives me an indication of how many sub-classes/etc I need to understand if I change the superclass)
- GoToBase (so I understand if I make a change in a subclass, what else do I need to understand) or alternatively (or alternatively ViewTypeHierarchy)
- GoToSymbol or GoToTypeDeclaration using pattern matching and camel case lets me find duplicates or similarly named methods
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This is not working for me. I tried to ran the tests from the menu Test > Run > All tests in solution and the status bar in VS2k8 said "no tests were run because no tests are loaded or the selected tests are disabled."
I am on Vista 64 bit, VS 2k8 and MbUnit v3 Alpha 2 (bundled with Gallio alpha 2)
What am I doing wrong?
I found the answer at
blog.davebouwman.net/.../TroubleRunningMbUnitTestsWithTestDrivennetOnVista64.aspx
hi, did you file a bug report with jetbrains?
You guys should know:
You cannot use Remote Desktop Connection to connect to computers running Windows Vista Starter, Home Basic, Home Basic N, or Home Premium. In addition you also cannot connect to XP Home Edition.
You can connect from the above editions to other editions, but not to those same editions.
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Microsoft have in beta a free product called Windows Live Mesh, www.mesh.com
It has a number of benefits, including abilty to remote desktop in your Vista Basic machines.
www.damaa.co.uk/.../at-last-windows-vista-home-basic-remote.html
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links for 2008-08-20
The SSCLI aka Rotor tends to not draw all that much attention unless your a researcher or CLR wonk but
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Just a quick reminder about this Wednesday (27th) and the Manchester UK ThoughtWorks geek night where
Excellent stuff, indeed, which could only be even more excellent through the removal of that "GetInstances" magic string you have there. I know, I know, good refactoring tools can see the string too, but I'm sure that you still feel a bit of a twinge, as I do, when seeing that magic string. ;)
Since the attribute appears at point of use, we can't get rid of the string because there may be multiple factories so we have to specify which one to use.
In general, it's not possible to guess which method is the factory method. Moreover, a factory might be defined on a different type (as a static method).
That said, if you rename the factory (uncommon), then the tests will fail... which should serve as a good enough reminder the moment you run your freshly refactored test. ;-)
It's also important to note that there are multiple ways of specifying these tests. The [Factory] could have appeared on the test method itself, for example, assuming the test method had a parameter of the right type. It could also have appeared on the fixture's constructor. It could also have been given a data source name and referenced indirectly from the tests, and so on.
So you're free to decide your own conventions based on the available syntax.
This has always been a problem, Agile definately makes things easier (less inflexable). I was recently introduced to a cool tool that can help with the Agile process, close to the flexiability of Agile. Check out http://www.targetprocess.com.
I have tried mostly mix and match. What worked best for me is taking small chunks getting feedback right away(sometimes this is hard), and the client being able to say ahh wait a minute this is what I really want. I think the agile mind-set reflexes the development reality more. Instead of trying to force structure and non-changing requirements we are able to adapt.
Good Article ,
Bill
ok.. i'm late to the party and a little slow. I've mostly used nunit, and am not familiar with this concept. I take it from your v3 example that ProviderArrayList is passed in to the Test my mbunit? .that's pretty cool. I just started using mbunit on a project today and will definitely look to apply this.
Agile Rocks.Always Satisfy the Client requirement and meets the time lines.[One thing is that the one who uses it must be smart and experienced]
Link Listing - August 26, 2008
I'm not sure I grok it.
Is the [Factory] a way to specify the rows for [RowTest]?
At http://www.xamltemplates.net you will find themes for all the wpf controls maybe this address will help you, we also make custom work.
Yeah we use Agile and BDD / TDD rather successfully at our company. We even do the crazy "pair programming". Though it's been that way since the company started, and everyone is on board with it.
The biggest drawback with Agile and practices similar, such as SCRUM, etc. is that everyone on the entire team must be on board with it, or it isn't going to work.
@AndrewSeven
In MbUnit v3, several attributes such as [RowTest] are no longer required.
Instead, any [Test] can optionally be data-driven in 2 easy steps:
1. Define its parameters.
2. Provide its data.
[Row], [Factory], [Column] and others are all just mechanisms for accomplishing item #2. You can actually use them all at once on the same test. The data provided by each one will just be combined into a bigger list.
I recommend this book:
http://www.sw-estimation.com/
It is comprehensive and compiles more estimation techniques than you will probably ever need.
Pingback from Arjan`s World » LINKBLOG for August 28, 2008
딸국질은 횡경막의 경련에 의해서 일어 나는 것으로 쇼크를
준다거나 잠시 호흡을 멈추면 낫는다.
하지만 경우에 따라정신적 부담감으로 빨리 멎지 않을 때가 있다.
멈추게 하는제일 좋은 방법은 심호흡을 한 뒤 견딜 수 있는데까지
숨을 쉬지 않는 것이다.
또는 숨을 멈춘채 찬물을 조금씩 마셔도효과가 있다.
그래도 가라 앉지 않으면 조용히 숨을 내쉬면
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을 멈추는 복식호흡도 좋다.
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Pingback from Dew Drop - August 30, 2008 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
Hi, Andrew,
The code you posted get wrapped and it's hard to follow, you may consider reformat your code a little bit so we can follow your example a little bit better.
Out of curiosity, what's the use case for this? It smells like bloat to me...
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Thanks for your posts.
I wish I could find some documentation about the attributes used by MbUnit. Their official document seems to be lacking any info about that. Would you know where I could get this?
Headers are more interesting when using external data files, such as with CSV (if the header does not appear within the file). This can make the overall test more resilient.
That said, I probably wouldn't use [Header] together with [Row].
The MbUnit data-binding features are highly composable and can be reused in a wide variety of contexts so fewer special-purpose features are required.
VersionOne has just published the raw data from its Agile adoption survey. It is available on www.versionone.com/.../3rdAnnualStateOfAgile_FullDataReport.pdf
Start working with Boo
Oren,
I figured you might say that :), your a Boo expert so some high level questions?
Does Boo have a MOP?
Does Boo support the MOP own object creation that you find in CLOS and Ruby?
This may be more of SCM wishlist item, but:
Either this:
www.jetbrains.com/.../continuous_integration.html
Or 2 stage commit. Where I commit to one repository and it only gets pushed to the other if everything builds.
Distributed build / Build Farm support for Crusecontrol would be nice.... Maybe I missed a contrib-project?!?
how about supporting a build engine that's easier than a nant script. something like Boo Build Script.
www.ayende.com/.../Introducing-Boobs-Boo-Build-System.aspx
-j
I simple way to pause listening for a particular source change. Maybe I'm in the middle of a committing a whole bunch of stuff but it's going to be several commits or something. I want to be able to tell the server to stop listening for a commits for awhile.
i have been using CruiseControl.Net (ccnet) for a long time now and find that there are very few things that i want or need.
most of what is wanted or needed has a tendency to show up early on in the config and setup process but once it is up and running... i don't touch it
i would think that the best thing to have would be to have an SCM and a CIS combined so i can pick and choose what goes into a build (think selecting change lists or revision ranges) and deploy it to an environment
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Hi.
I don't like the interface, because is tightly coupled to the Basket class. Probably an interface like this is more appropriate :
public interface ICache<T>
void Add(T item, string key);
void Remove(string key);
T Get(string key);
The implementation is :
public class Velocity<T> : ICache<T>
private const string CACHE = "MyCache";
#region ICache<T> Members
public void Add(T item, string key)
var CacheCluster1 = new CacheFactory();
var Cache1 = CacheCluster1.GetCache(CACHE);
Cache1.Add(key, T);
public void Remove(string key)
Cache1.Remove(key);
public T Get(string key)
return (T)Cache1.Get(key);
#endregion
And finally
public class BasketRepository : Velocity<Basket>
I don't know how this will integrate with an IOC container but it's more pleasant to me.
Any thoughts?
Pingback from Dew Drop - September 17, 2008 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
Make sure your monitor is not too high as well. I have been suffering from eye strain recently, and found that the top of my monitor was above eye level. Lowering it meant that more of my eye was covered with nice, moist eyelid for more of the time.
Combine this with a regular basting of Viscotears and the odd break (regimented by www.workrave.org) and you can maintain a 24/7 IT-fest ;)
I use the Twilight theme in Textmate. It's more toned down than Vibrant Ink, uses more pastel tones. I've not come across a good port of it for VS.NET yet though, certainly none that work well for both C# and VB.NET but it would be nice :)
Small example pulled from google images:
thinkingdigitally.com/.../monaco.png
Hi again.
I like this version much more but still I don't like this line :
var cacheValue = cache.Get(basketid);
It won't compile ;) - we need basketid.ToString() but that isn't the main problem.
Suppose we add another class say Car and we implement the same cache strategy for this class. What will happen when we call the Get method with "1". Is it a carID or a basketID ? When we perform :
return (T) Cache1.Get(key);
and we have a Basket in the cache with basketID = 1. If we try to retrieve a Car with carID = 1 the will fail !
So we need a way to distinguish carIDs and backetIDs.
Here's my proposal
public interface ICache<T> where T : ICachable
void Add(T res);
public interface IIdentifiable
int ID { get; set; }
string ClassName { get; }
public interface ICachable
string CacheID { get; }
public class Velocity<T> : ICache<T> where T : ICachable, IIdentifiable
private static readonly string CACHE = Cache.DefaultCache;
private CacheFactory _cacheCluster = new CacheFactory();
public void Add(T res)
var Cache1 = _cacheCluster.GetCache(CACHE);
Cache1.Add(res.CacheID, res);
public abstract class ObjectActions<T> where T : ICachable, IIdentifiable, new()
private ICache<T> _cache;
public ObjectActions(ICache<T> cache)
_cache = cache;
public T Get(int objectID)
T b = new T() { ID = objectID };
var cacheValue = _cache.Get(b.CacheID);
if (cacheValue == null)
var res = GetBasket(objectID);
if (res != null)
_cache.Add(res);
return res;
return cacheValue;
protected abstract T GetBasket(int objectID);
public class BasketActions : ObjectActions<Basket>
public BasketActions(ICache<Basket> cache)
: base(cache)
protected override Basket GetBasket(int basketid)
return new Basket() { ID = basketid };
public class Basket : IIdentifiable, ICachable
#region IIdentifiable Members
public int ID { get; set; }
public string ClassName
get { return @"Basket"; }
#region ICachable Members
public string CacheID
get
if (ID <= 0)
throw new ArgumentOutOfRangeException("value", "The ID must be greated then zero.");
return ClassName + ID;
public class Car : IIdentifiable, ICachable
get { return @"Car"; }
what do you think ?
I'm sorry but dark themes in VS just don't work for the simple fact that the UI of VS doesn't play well with them at all.
I like dark themes, just not in VS. I find that using a dark theme in VS messes my eyes up as the UI of VS is light. If there was a dark mode for VS, or a full screen mode that truly was full screen it may work better.
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Hi Petar,
I see your point and thanks for posting your code up, never done pair programming in a blog post before :)
One other way I an think of is the use of the Velocity regions, you could partion certain objects by region id and use that as a marker in the code for certain objects. Your solution is more generic however.
Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts.
I'm not sure which IoC you are using but with Unity you can register the ICache<T> as an open generic type and then resolve any number of different closed types using the single registration. (I hope I have that terminology correct. :-| )
So instead of:
IOC.Register<ICache<Basket>, Velocity<Basket>>();
You can do:
IOC.Register<ICache<>, Velocity<>>();
Now anywhere you use ICache<T> the container will resolve it to Velocity<T>.
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Because dot notation sucks... duh
I could not find any documents under part2 & part3.
In case anyone in a position of authority looks at this post, I support this feature; I ran into an issue that this would have solved. It would be a nice addition to a future version of C#!
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The license fits. I currently use Asp.Net in conjunction with jQuery and, as far as I'm concerned, the better things that could come out of this are client-side WIDGETS, intellisense support, samples, best practices guidance, and lots of documentation!
But...but.. I thought OSS was evil, and theft, and a leach, and incompatible ans a poison pill, and...
Definitely an interesting development. With the arrival of MVC, now jQuery and some of the shifts that II&/2008 have made, I'm starting to actually believe MS might be starting to "get it".
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could you tell me which Mono download I need for ubuntu 8?
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Regarding
[CsvData(ResourcePath="CsvDataTest.csv", HasHeader=true)]
Can I point to an absolute file path? I don't want my test data to be part of my project; we store the Gigabytes of test data outside of our scc system.
And how can i call a Test method with 2 data files? I want to do a nested foreach.
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Dee: C# was developed from the ground up specifically for .NET. VB.NET is only there for VB users who can't move on, and for hobbyist programmers who find the BASIC language base easier to read.
The language is constructed to best suit the object oriented nature of .NET, as well as generics and deep .NET functionality like object pinning (with fixed statement).
C# is also a standardized language specification (by ECMA I think).
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@Ja,
Use the FilePath property like so:
[CsvData(FilePath="MyHugeDataFile.csv", HasHeader=true)]
That said, you may encounter problems when you load your gigabytes of test data into memory for testing all at once. It might make more sense for the test case to open up the data files it needs one at a time as it executes... ;)
Subject close to your heart:
blogs.msdn.com/.../linq-farm-covariance-and-contravariance-in-visual-studio-2010.aspx
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Yes, Both join together and kills VS.NET ;)
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Pingback from Dew Drop - November 12, 2008 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
I hope they both get left behind.
go wpf!!, go silverlight!!
dee, vb should just die, period.
Emad I am on <a href="http://www.notionsolutions.com">Microsoft</a> Windows Vista 64 bit, VS 2k8 and MbUnit v3 Alpha 2 (bundled with Gallio alpha 2) as well but it seems the solution to which you posted the link here..does not work for me... I mean what am I missing...did you do something besides the things menitoned there?!
If only my IDE (VS.NET) could save my custom window layouts. That way, I would not face window re-org micro-tedium every time I switched between single and dual-monitos on VMWare workstation (I spread my VS.NET windows across both monitors).
Pingback from Dew Drop - December 2, 2008 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
If only it could list all implementors of an interface, or abstract or overridable member.
If only my IDE (VS2008) could allow me to continuously type and not freeze every time (every 10-30s or so) it needs to do some background parsing or god knows what (aspx editing). If I could only have the ability to wire up events (with cs stubs) from aspx to cs without switching to design view (which breaks a lot with "fancy" code that runs perfectly fine at runtime). And, if only my IDE could somehow check my aspx for compilation errors the same way it checks cs files, ooo, if only...
P.S. In VS10 you guys better figure out a way to disable clear-type / anti-aliasing in the editor or you'll see a wrath of angry programmers that will make Vista's bad rep small by comparison.
One big thing I'd like in Visual Studio is *true* multi-monitor support.
This could be accomplished with some simple changes. At least on the surface -- I have no idea how difficult it would be to implement. Although simple, the changes would allow for some interesting things when you have multiple monitors. Here they are:
1) Make the dockable tool windows in the IDE first-class windows in the operating system when they're un-docked. I.e. if they were derived from System.Windows.Forms.Form (I have no idea if they actually are), their FormBorderStyle would be Sizable rather than SizableToolWindow when they were un-docked. This would allow maximization of the tool window in either/any monitor rather than require the user to size the window manually
2) Allow all items in the tabbed documents bar (including code documents and designers) to be dockable tool windows with a full set of toolbars.
When I want to have more than one document visible at any time, I have to go into split mode by creating a horizontal or vertical tab group. If I want those documents on separate monitors (perhaps I want the designer on the left with the toolbox and properties windows docked near it, with the code-behind on the right with the System Explorer docked near it) I have to de-maximize the main IDE window, manually expand it across both monitors, create a vertical tab group, then monkey around with the location of the split until it's almost (but not quite) right at the border between monitors. If I go into debug mode new docked tool windows are added, which means I have to manually resize to the way I want (and it's never exactly the same as the way it was when I was coding), then deal with the switch when debugging is done. It's a pain.
But, by making tool windows first-class windows and allowing code and designer tabbed documents to be tool windows (which are also now first-class windows) I can utilize the maximize feature on separate monitors, allowing me to have a more consistent development environment.
It's amazing how useful that maximize feature is.
What I use a lot in Eclipse that I was missing in VS.NET (2002 to 2005, don't know for 2008):
- Ctrl+Click on a class/method/field to jump to its definition
- search where a class/method/field is referenced/called
- show the inheritance hierarchy *rooted* at the current class (i.e. show interface implementors and/or derived classes); in Eclipse, this is as easy as pressing F4 when the caret/cursor is in a class/method name. The hierarchy tree then shows the methods defined for a class when you select it, with the method override (in case you launched it from a method) selected (so you just have to double-click on it to jump to it; without first looking for it by its name)
I also love refactoring tools, but VS.NET 2008 seems to have pretty good ones (maybe even better than Eclipse)
I hate the way Intellisense currently works. To take the most recent example, the other day I was trying to figure out how to use the ReportViewer control in VS2008. And I was trying to figure out how to set the DataSource correctly. But when I typed the ".", Intellisense innundated me with far too much irrelevant data. In this case, I don't *care* about the fact that it derives from Control, as thus has a Left property, and a Right property, and a Click event, and so on, and so on, ad nauseam. I wanted just the properties of *that* class, without the base classes cluttering up things. That way I wouldn't have to sift through the inheritance detritus obscuring what I was trying to find.
So what I'd like is a drill-down capability in Intellisense. (Or maybe, as an option, show just the properties, etc of the current object, with a drill-up capability.)
And since this is a wish list, keep track of (and, of course, display) the current level of the inheritance hierarchy I'm interested in, on a control-by-control basis. And persist this as part of the project settings.
Well, wish me luck. I've given this feedback before, and it's been ignored every time. Maybe this time...
@Andy
If you are using VS, ReSharper will do that and more.
It should not crash. It should be fast.
A easy way to close all open files.
Integrated GhostDoc like tools and sandcaste / CodeDoc like help file generation.
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Explorer-like folder project -- I just want a folder full of random folders and files (text documents, word documents, etc.) accessible from within a solution (in a separate project). I don't want to have to refresh the folders and include the files myself. On that note, it would be nice (but definitely not necessary) if it could use IFilters for searching those projects and ideally open the documents within the IDE like Outlook does when you view an attachment.
Also, it would be nice to have remote desktop connections open within the IDE (with rdp connection files in the solution somewhere).
how about multi monitor support - sure we can undock windows and drag them out, but its clunky and breaks if you need to do anything with the resolution, or if you remote desktop into the machine. I have three monitors, but I can only use visual studio on one. I can use ultra mon to stretch it accross several monitors, but thats hardly ideal either.
I want to learn MVP
About VS10 - it would be really great if WPF text rendering was done waaay better than it is now. Otherwise, it's gonna be really annoying to read the code. The problem as we all probably know is not in clear-type, but in absence of native windows clear-type in WPF text rendering.
1) Until someone comes up with a better UI than tabs I think we just have to suck it up. At least we *have* tabs now.
2) I can't imagine anything less important to me.
3) I can't even think about coding without dual monitors because I need many of those windows to be top-level.
4) The only time I truly hate Devstudio is when I'm doing a C# project and I have to use the "Add Reference" window. Gawd. Can't it work like appwiz (Add/Remove programs) in Vista and at least *appear* responsive while it's loading? Or even better... 99% of the time I'm adding my own assemblies anyway, so it should defer loading the ".NET" & "COM" tabs until I select those tabs. The "Browse" and "Recent" tabs should come up and respond immediately.
5) Don't care about WPF. I'd rather see MFC get the love it deserves: a true framework update, bringing it into compliance with our 2008 concept of convenient code.
Only thing I care about on that list is speed and the ability to turn off clear type in WPF - gives me a headache. If I could have an IDE that is modular to the point that I can load and unload the pieces that I need when I need them that would be brilliant. 80% of the time I'm in "glorified text editor mode" where all I want is syntax highlighting, intellisense, ReSharper, VisualSVN, and the solution explorer - when in that mode I just want a fast, lightweight editing experience where it doesn't take 30 seconds to open an ASPX page on a quad-core, 64bit machine. I'm tired of seeing devenv.exe at 500mb in memory with only a few files open and hanging repeatedly during simple text entry. I'm always on the lookout for alternatives, and of course none come close, unfortunately. Put my quest to rest, please.
Styling the IDE means nothing to me, even if it's simply because I'm afraid it'll slow it down even more.
I couldn't agree more with the Add References comment, that takes for ever. Any of my assemblies that are framework assemblies are copied to a 'lib' folder in my solution anyway for consistency. Let me have the browse window first, then only open the .NET windows or, god forbid, the COM window when i need it.
WPF scares me if simply from a performance aspect (see my thoughts on styling). I don't see the advantage of spending time doing this when other parts of the IDE could be improved or stabilized instead.
One more thought, one the biggest reason I refuse to use MSTest is because of the MSTest assemblies. I hate the fact that if I'm scrolling through projects in the SolutionExplorer and i happen to click an MSTest project my entire IDE locks up for several seconds so it can show the stupid unit test toolbar.
Stop trying to make the IDE think for the user. Developers are power users, they're not standard users. Trust the developer to open things or load things as they need them, stop trying to do everything for them (add refs, unit testing)..it just gets in their way.
Oh would I love multi-monitor support.
I would love to see following things in VS:
- something similar to Eclipse perspectives, different toolbars, tool windows setup depending on current task, for example I like to have Immediate window on my second monitor, fullscreen but only when debugger is running
- more than one monitor support, let me undock tool windows, place them on any monitor, remember its positions and perspectives
- let me view two (or more) documents in split view (documents next to each other or below/above other documents), similar how Eclipse is doing it
- open more than one solution at the time, give me some way of switching between them
WPF editor: I've been waiting for something like this for years. I really like what I saw at PDC, e.g. being able to show (XML doc) comments completely different than code etc.
Being able to use multiple fonts for different language elements inside the source editor right out of the box is important for me - I don't want to have to write extensibility code for that.
Zooming also could be great - maybe something like
holding a hotkey to zoom out to show a source file in 50% size, then doing some scrolling using the mouse wheel, then releasing the hotkey to zoom back in to 100% size. That would be really useful in some cases.
It will be great if VS display error/warning icon in tabs/solution explorer if in the file is error (like Eclipse)
In the Solution Explorer I would like the ability to sort by type and then by name. This way all the ASPX files would be grouped together, CS files the same, etc.
TFS integration is DIRE. That needs a great deal of work in my view. The offline experience while TFS is enabled in your VS install is just awful.
Native support for other editors (such as VIM or EMACS).
First off, thanks for asking!
I normally code in full screen mode with no toolbars or extra windows, which allows more screen space for code windows. I also use the “reuse current document windows, if saved” option. Too say my IDE is sparse would be an understatement. Utilizing the numerous windows shortcuts and add-on tools like DevExpress CodeRush / RefactorPro almost everything is within fingers reach.
Wish list:
Make tool and debug windows an opt-in choice through the add-in menu.
Multi monitor support with full screen option would be very nice.
Would really love an apply button on the options menu.
If only i could bind commands to mouse button (with ctrl/alt/shift).
I would like to see the following...
- C# Project level option to set C# source code is case-sensitive / in-sensitive.
- more code formatting guidlines like Structural highlighting lines which shows how code flow lines up.
- Highlight source code with different colors
- option to set editor background wallpaper
great topic
i will be adding my 2 cents to the other post but here are my thoughts on what you have asked
sorry for the long post but... if i have a chance to be heard on this topic... i am taking advantage to do so :)
tabs are great... sometimes. the ctl-tab works great but it would be nice if we could make it "sticky" while i select the documents i want in the fore-front. hope that makes sense
i like being able to set my editors to have a dark theme... having a blazing white background for my solution explorer... not so much. more customization would be welcomed
windows are windows... i think this is a low priority
speed... ahhh... now we are talking. the only times i see speed issues is when i jump into an ui file or add a reference. other things like server explorer, refactoring, and definition look-ups are understandably slower.
i could also make a case that vs should handle large solutions better but that is unreasonable
i welcome the new wpf editor. add all the bells and whistles you can to that thing and allow me to toggle what i want or edit the xaml
thanks for listening
ok... here we go...
dump the navigational and hierarchy drop-downs at the top of the editor windows and utilize the class view more. let the class view know what class i am working on and allow me to determine when it should be loaded or not.
the code definition window is too touchy. as soon as i click on a single word the code definition window loads that class in (even if it's the same class i am working on). i love the concept behind the code definition window but is there any way to be a little smarter about it?
give me a "dumpster" meaning give me something like the tokenizer but beefier. i should be able to add code samples, common references, blocks of code, etc... to a general or common bucket that is managed by visual studio (not solution items)
it would be great if i could incorporate the snip-its functionality to pull them in.
when i import a namespace... attempt to add a reference to that dll for me. if you don't know that namespace or it isn't a common namespace... ask me where to find it. that should shave time off of the add references.
speaking of adding references... when i right click to add a reference... produce a list of the current projects in my solution to select from. in other words... get a little better about adding references. it seems to take for ever.
i love the way eclipse has perspectives... vs has attempted to do the same but there is just something off. it seems like it is not as robust.
give me a little more refactoring tools. the only one that stands out for me right now are generating a file from the selected (or highlighted) class and updating an interface from the class. i don't want the resharper functionality because i think they are doing a great job and it shouldn't be duplicated by the vs team but give me a little more functionality
more to come as i think of them... :)
For VS how about a post called "If only my IDE wouldn't do this"?
Real snippet functionality.
1) Expose the ability to write our own Functions to be used in snippets. I want things like MethodName() that would find the enclosing method and place its name into the snippet.
2) Check out Eclipse's way it allows one to search for an option throughout the option dialog. Instead of having to remember Project and Solutions - General - Track Active Item in Solution Explorer you can just start typing it is searches for matching options.
I wish they would integrate sql management studio in VS. Instead of only doing 1/4 of the things you can do in ssms, do it all in vs.
Automatic background compiling so that when you press F5 the application just runs...everytime code changes you could restart the compile process in a background thread (or 3), even if it wasn't done it would take less time...
Better responsiveness on XAML views (ie escape actually works).
Tab selection via the scroll wheel (ie. hold down ctrl+alt and scroll to change to the next or previous tab), ctrl+shift and scroll to go to the next file in the solution view
How about making add reference be required less by adding a right click option that allows you to "add reference" and then searches for the item that was right clicked in all available dll's in the gac? It wouldn't be perfect as there are dll's not in the gac that you need to add sometimes as well as COM, but you could have a way to index all dll's and pull out their interfaces for this feature. If there are options it would work like the Add Usings right click feature that currently exists.
I feel like a lot of energy is being spent on "rearranging tabs/windows" when I start an application, and often the UI behaves wierdly just before an application begins, it would be nice to have it change quickly as well as smoothly (animation etc perhaps)
"Always on top" windows with realtime information for watches and stack traces...it would be great if this could be done in such a way that it is possible to slow down the application and see the stack trace in "slow motion" ie. each method call takes 0.1 second. But the application can remain responsive and in focus. Perhaps some shortcut keys to engage this mechanism, this would be especially helpful for debugging graphics and quick running items.
Debug a process - Click on the window to add a process to be debugged, rather than choosing it from a list etc. If a window has multiple processes (IE, etc.) it lists the possible processes the window has and then you choose based on that list rather than an entire window list.
Speed is definitely my biggest gripe. Not being able to change the user interface element colors (aside from the coding surface) is another - my coding surface is a nice mellow dark grey, while the rest of the interface is still glaring white.
I've been hearing that Visual Studio 10 will be built with WPF (not sure if that's true) and if it is, then it will probably be better for customization. I hope so, anyway.
I agree with Erik. Speed is the biggest issue.
Many times I just need to open VS and create a dummy 5-lines project just to test something. Every window that opens takes too much time (VS itself, the "new project" dialog, "add reference" dialog).
Also VS 2008 crashes once in a while.
Speed is definitely the biggest issue. I usually open Visual Studio first thing in the morning and keep it open even if I'm not actively using it. Opening Visual Studio, opening a project, and adding a project reference are too slow.
We're attempting to "refactor" out a complex stored procedure from our database so we replaced it with a C# stored procedure. We're also linking the C# project in several other projects so we can slowly remove all references to real stored procedure in the database. The pain point is that Visual Studio
complains "There were deployment errors. Continue?" every time we attempt to run a project linked to the stored procedure project. If "Deploy code" is not checked, why is it complaining about code deployment?
Speed as others have mentioned.
For me the second biggest gripe these days is that VS crashes too many times if too many xaml files are edited in a WPF project.
One feature I will love to see in VS is the ability to compile and run code snippets. I wonder if that will happen someday.
Agreed with the others. Speed and crashes. I even get that "delay notification" thing sometimes when building. Now, thats not just a delay, its a complete crash. So killing it from taskmgr is the only thing left to do.
Another nice improvement would be to get rid of that "could not debug because no symbols have been loaded" thing when trying to debug. Resolution is to clean the project and restart debugging. Why do I have to do that? Why cant VS do that for me?
Finally, XAML is the future but a real pain in VS. Please improve that.
I'm not sure if it isn't already in VS10, but a feature that I really miss is a searching ability in configuration window like that in Eclipse.
The configuration tree is very complex and finding an option that I need is sometimes very frustrating..
Speed, especially when window/tabs are switched around, e.g. when starting to debug. The windows switch back and forth which gives it a very slow appearance.
Another thing that has bothered me for years is that the window where you configure your keyboard shortcuts is very small so it's hard to browse through the list.
The context (right-click) menu both in the editor and file view should be more customizeable. There are lots of plugins that add stuff there, making the menu cover a lot of the screen, it's hard to find stuff, also it feels kinda slow if you have lots of stuff there.
There should be an easy way to configure the help topics. E.g. to chose which categories to filter out (XAML, C# etc.)
the ftp that's built in. It's the worst remote deployment solution i've ever used. MS should just buy dispatch and integrate it into the next version.
The step into functionality is the thing I hate the most. Most of the time I want to really step into the method that is called and not first go thru all the parameters that form the input.
I also hate the go to definition when the definition is an interface with one or more implementations. I would like the ability to go the one of the implementations of the interface directly.
Multi monitor support. I use two monitors. Why can't I have one code window on monitor one and a second on monitor two?
We use MSBuild and TeamBuild for most of our deployment but some things are not easily done from the command line. This includes publishing ClickOnce and some Web application publication stuff. Who in their right mind deploys to production from VS?
The synchronous nature of vs really sucks. Why should the whole VS freeze just for the toolbox to initialize. In some cases when debugging I may just be waiting for some animation in the GUI that is not relevant in my debugging session.
If a code file just contain one class why is that class not selected in the class selector at the top of the coding window? More than one, select the first one.
Features I'd love:
- Firefox/Opera like Undo Close Tab feature. You close a tab in VS now, you have to go find the source file in Solution Explorer. I want to hit Ctl+Shift+T reopen the closed tab. (Ok, now somebody will tell me that there's already a key combination to do this :)
- Spell checker for comments. Even cooler if it can detect spelling errors in method, variable names written in camel case.
Multi-monitor support!!!!!
The dialog windows that pop up for adding a reference or adding items to the toolbox, plus may others are not resizable. Don't make dialog boxes fixed sizes, same goes for the contents inside the dialog boxes.
Lack of design capabilities for all XAML project types.
ASP.Net working area - in split view the designer is at the bottom and the html is at the top. Not easily switchable by the developer.
Muli-Monitor Support.
Speed of loading just about everything.
I sure I will think of some more in time.
It has amnesia about this setting:
Tools->Options->HTML Designer->CSS Styling->Change Positioning to Absolute for Controls Added...
It will not stay checked.
I have commented many times on tools on our project, and how we were still using VSS 2005 and not TFS yet. Those posts go into some detail. My team has been driving me nuts to get rid of VSS 2005 (for many multiple corruption problems a day) and to use
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Interesting idea, I agree with you that having many files open in Visual Studio can be quit a pain, when I get lost I go to the file/tab with the most interest and click "close all but this" and start from there again. And just regularly closing all is also a practise I thought myself ;)
I really like not to have tabs, but I would also really dislike to have to use the mouse to navigate to much. So I would like to suggest adding automatic short cuts to the items with a number to indicate which file to open, these numbers would be the order of the bread crumbs. And it should be a different short cut for the tag cloud, and there the short cut should not change depending on the popularity of the file. And of course keep the Ctrl + Tab functionality working.
I only wonder how you would solve the bread crumb issue when going back and forward between files file1 > file2 > file3 > file2 > file3 I still want to see file1 but not the different jumps between file2 and file3.
The tag cloud should not be in time open, it should be smarter and use time active in the file, so scrolling of mousing or what every, because if it is just time open then when a college asks a question it might impact the tag cloud wrongly.
Hehe this became a long reply, which indicates the frustration I have with the current solution ;)
-Mark
I have a quad core with 4Gigs of DDR2-800 and 10K raptors in SATA RAID - 0, so no issues with me on speed....it's blazing fast.
I'd say the ftp is the worst ftp software EVER. I use the fireftp plugin for firefox (the only time I use firefox, other than testing) - and a browser plugin works better than a dedicated product....how come?
The WPF designer is way too slow. Even on my machine.
VS shuts down suddenly, from time to time. Not good.
There should be a button somewhere that can "add AJAX stuff to my web.config" for asp.net projects. Also, an automated tool for configuring the providers (for example, the membership provider has MaxPasswordRetryAttemps...we need to do that by manually changing XML).
As stated, definately: Speed
VS2008 performs like an over-weight dog comparred to VS2005.
I don't want VS10 yet, I do want a faster VS2008.
Your feed keeps reissuing old posts in FeedDemon. Any idea why?
Speed, speed, speed!
Just listing the two features that really need to get a speed up:
Opening the add reference dialog gives me headache every time I have to use it...
Populating the Toolbar when opening a Form is a real pain if you have more than just the few preinstalled controls.
@Joshka, sorry no idea why, could be that I am editing old posts (which I do).
Would it be possible to put in the C# language based screen the same page events dropdown visible as if you are coding in Visual Basic in web development? I find it unfair for C# developers not having that as opposed to VB.
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One issue I see with a cloud based on how long you're in a file is that being in a file (presumably, the file open and the foremost window) is not always a good indication of significance of use.
However, a cloud of filenames based on how many times a file was OPENED and/or SAVED, perhaps as a "commonly used files" interface, is a great idea.
What? VS has had multi-monitor support since 2002. I used it with 3 21" CRT monitors back in the day. Just move all the toolbar/crap windows to a separate screen.
Something like Ultramon would add some nice features.
I **HATE** the add reference dialog. It defaults to all installed dlls (and is dog-ass slow) when the VAST MAJORITY of the time I want to add a project reference (with far fewer dlls to choose from). Load the system dlls in the background or let me switch over to it and pay the wait time penalty only IF I need to.
What I hate most about VS is that it thinks every organization has just one big solution file, one source code repository, one rigid project dependency structure in a solution, and one build stream that produces exactly one application. Even if multiple solutions are in use, sharing projects between them is far from trivial. The truth is that even small teams produce and consume multiple units of application functionality: UI modules, server-side modules, libraries, plug-ins, database wrappers, helper utilities, unit test suites, SQL scripts, 3rd party components, etc., and they share code and depend on each other in non-linear ways that may differ not just between projects, but also between debug and release versions and between platforms (32-bit vs 64-bit for example, or WPF vs Silverlight). Moreover, development teams move at different paces so reusing functionality under assumption that one can just feed the right version of the code to VS is flawed -- it's not always clear which version is right and VCS can't manage this alone. A concept of a package and an associated dependency management plumbing would go a long way. Solutions for this are available in, let's see... every other development platform out there: DEB- or RPM-based Linux distributions, Java with Maven2, Python with setuptools and PyPI, or Perl with CPAN, they all have it.
Speed. Especially, when shutting down large projects under TFS. Most of the time I just kill it from task manager.
I would like to see a true 64-bit version of VS available.
Also there needs to be much better organisation of screens when working multi-screen.
-Multi Monitor support
---use Tab's like Google Chrome - where tabs can be dragged off to create a new window to put on another screen.
---For VS to remember what monitor the debug windows are on. I usually keep my watch window on it's own monitor while I am debugging. It is annoying whenever I start debuggging again and it's in a weird spot (but then again MS has never had good Multi-Monitor support, it always breaks).
-Ability to sort files in Solution Expoler
-in a solution of 100+ projects, it takes sometimes 2 minutes to load the right-click context menu.
-Ability to show the last values in the watch window when debugging has stopped. Many times I have operations and method calls in there and in the immidieate that are gone when debugging stops. Even if they exist as plain text - it would be nice.
-Better Service Debugging
-Better javaScript Debugging
I will parrot the speed issue, but it's not as big an issue for me as the lack of multi-monitor support.
MULTI MONITOR SUPPORT!
"* Code windows in tabs, if your working with a lot of files you end up with a lot of tabs, could that be better?"
Maybe, but not *much* better, unless there's some innovative paradigm hitherto unforeseen.
I much prefer tabs to MDI, frankly, and I think I'm in the majority opinion there. That said, tabs could be a little better if you could take one tab and drag it out to create a new window. This would be especially useful for (and I may be beating a dead horse here, but: ) multi-monitor support.
"* Styling the IDE, you can theme the code window but nothing else in VS, could that be better?"
I wouldn't mind being able to style the GUI, but that's a low priority for me. If you *do* mess around with system-wide styling, I suggest you create a theme based system, whereby folks could quickly switch between different saved styles. Saving these to file and allowing for "theme packs" would also be a nice feature. But again, that's more of a nice to have than a necessary feature, IMO.
"* Windows, too many of them, could they be combined? do you find the interface too busy?"
IMO, the interface is only ever too busy when I am confined to a single monitor. If I could drag a tab out into a separate window, I could then organize my docked tool windows in two separate monitors without having to do any sort of funky stretch-across-two-monitors window alignment.
I know, I keep mentioning it, but it's important: MULTI MONITOR SUPPORT!!! It'd be easy enough if you just let us drag tabs to a new window.
"* Speed, hear it a lot but do you find VS is attempting to do too much and slowing you down, would you rather VS be lighter on her feet and you add what you want as you need it?"
Most of the issues I run into regarding speed have to do with the way the various tool windows or designers are coded. They're almost always single-threaded running on the GUI thread, which means if I, for example, accidentally hover over a collapsed Toolbox tab on my way to the Solution Explorer, I have to deal with a significant pause while the Toolbox decides what to show me when it expands.
The same issue applies to the designers. Very frequently switching tabs or granting focus to the designer results in a relatively heavy task running on the GUI thread, and I'm unable to switch back or anywhere else while it's thinking.
So if you could have all the tool / designer teams spruce up their GUIs and not do long-running tasks on the GUI thread, that'd be super-swell. Of course, it's possible that the problem is in the underlying event model. I'm not a big VS shell developer, so I'm not up on the shell event model, but it's quite possible that the problem is that the shell itself fires its events on the GUI thread rather than asynchronously.
Either way, it's worth looking into.
"* VS10 will get a new WPF code editor, do you welcome those changes and do you think such things as zooming and aliasing will be useful? would you want to see more?"
I know a couple people have complained about the aliasing, but I'm neutral there. Zooming I think might be helpful, as there are times when I like to have a "birds-eye" view of the code. It would also be especially useful for code-based presentations, i.e. to the local NUG or during a code review.
1) Multi monitor support: The windows from VS should not be constrained to the main VS windows (aka MDI style). What I would love to see is a way for all the windows in VS (editor windows, solution explorer, etc) to be floatable anywhere on the screen (kind of does that already to a certain degree). This should be taken to the next level where the windows could be either grouped like now, but also glued to each other, so when these windows are glued, moving one moves them all. The Google Talk chat application is a good example of what I'm talking about. If this feature would be available even for the editor windows we could have funky layouts: like two windows sharing half the screen, one on top of the other, while the third would take up the other half of the screen. As long as the positions are saved, imo this would solve the multi-monitor problems.
2) Even more than multi monitor support I hate it when VS doesn't properly detect user control creations. For example: I create a new UC, then I go to an ASPX file and add a reference (all this without switching to design view). After doing this VS Intellisense doesn't recognize the new control. To solve this I have to close all the windows, recompile the application, and reopen the ASPX file. Major pain.
3) Typing in ASPX files causes the IDE to freeze for many seconds. When this happens I can't do anything. The IDE should never prevent me from typing. It may not be able to give me Intellisense, that's ok, but let me type...
Thanks.
"The longer you stay in the file the bigger its presence in the cloud, the less time the smaller (until it vanishes from the cloud)."
This is a good example of what I don't like about the way MS designs a lot of their software: The software thinks it knows what I want or tries to guess. Every time you do this, you lose predictability and introduce user frustration.
I don't like, for example, how VS thinks it can figure out what CSS files I will use at runtime. If it could figure out 100% then I would not have a problem with it, but since it can't, I would much rather it let me tell it what those files to consider.
There are many more examples, however, the rule of thumb should be this: If it can't do a perfect job at guessing / helping / anticipating the user's intention it should not do it at all. Just my opinion, of course.
I hope the next editor's border won't be round like that and the text won't be that blurry... There's also a lot of wasted space around there. It's probably just a proof of concept, but just making sure :)
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1. Lack of Multimonitor support
2. Reordering my open tabs in a way I don't understand.
I'm often faced with the situation that my tab, I'm used to find at position x has moved to position y.
I really really hate that.
3. Lack of support for sharing projects among several solutions.
We've solved this with a workaround using subversion externals.
It work's fine, but can cause some headache when creating releases.
What I hate most about VS is how every version makes C++ more and more of an afterthought to the scripting languages they're pushing.
I don't care about anything that begins with "W" and ends with "F". Apart from major head trauma, I simply cannot envision a situation where I would willingly choose to build a program out of XML when I could instead build it with blazing fast native code that I can step through in a debugger.
The C++ framework needs actual work. By actual work I mean importing more BCG code doesn't cut it. The MFC docs are such a mess of outdated material that in some places it essentially lies. Well gee, Goober; no wonder it's not getting any new followers!
I don't want to read about support for "trends" on the 2010 overview page. I don't build software with trends. I build it with proven, high performance technology.
As of this moment, 2010 is a product I don't want, designed to do a job I don't need done.
- I guess I will jump on the "speed" bandwagon. Visual Studio is a bit of a memory hog, even for medium/small sized solutions (11 projects).
- Native x64 support would be nice so I am not constrained to WOW64, and reduce the processor load of switching from 32 to 64. However, I would be surprised if even 2 releases after VS2010 had native x64. It's just too much work to do. I can certainly understand the challenges of moving a COM oriented Application to x64.
- The WPF Designer is a bit shady every now and then. Expression Blend makes up for it, like when using a ViewBox all it shows is a box with the works "ViewBox" in it rather than it's actual contents. I do know that 2010 will improve WPF design. It would be also nice if I could turn off and on animations in the designer. Most of the time I don't need to see them, and they use resources I don't want being used.
- Scott Bruno made some good points about C++. There hasn't been a lot done for Native C++ lately which I am still a big fan of.
- The installation is a little bloated by default.
- BETTER multi monitor support would be nice. It's so-so now (as per Darrel's comment).
Thoughts on other people's comments:
- Buy resharper. It can add references for you if you try to use a class in another assembly or project. Bye bye Add Reference window. How often do you add references anyway?
I hate it when I have a lot of files open in VS and to close each one I have to move my mouse all the way over to the right corner to close one.
Why not have the tab interface like IE7 or FF where I can have the "X" right on the file tab?
That'd be pretty helpful
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Visual Studio 2008 + Notepad2 here is all I need to get my job done :)!!!
Editor used for most programming: SciTE
IDE: NetBeans
Notepad2 and Intype... Was primarily Editplus.
I mainly use VS2008 now, but I really like Delphi's IDE, especially for multi-monitor support. It was very hard for me to let go of the bookmarking system (Ctrl+Shift+<number from 0 to 9> to set and then Ctrl+<number from 0 to 9> to go back) or the every useful Alt+G. Good thing there's (the free) DPack out there. Seriously, I press Alt+U, type two or three letters and it finds the file in the solution, then I press Alt+G and a few letters and it find the method in the current file....
VS2008 and Notepad2.
SlickEdit 2008 + VS 2008. SlickEdit ROCKS
VS 2008 + PSPad (http://www.pspad.com/)
I use PSPad for temporary storage, cut/paste, quick editing of files ... all the times when I want to done something quickly because VS is too slooow.
VS08 + Resharper (I can't stand having to use vanilla VS - the navigation sucks).
Textmate for HTML/CSS drafting (I'd use it for more, but I need an excuse for that...)
VS2008, plain old notepad, SQL Server Management Studio, Expression Blend, SQL Yog, Expresso (for regular expressions) and a little NetBeans (when I need to code Java - hate it though).
VS2008, SQL Studio, Blend2, waiting for SL kxaml and notepad ++ (free, not like notepad2)
VS2008, CodeWright 6.5
VS2008 (with EMacs bindings), EMacs
textmate only (php, html, js, mootools )
VS 2005/VS 2008 Express (can't afford Pro version yet), TextPad and Notepad++. The reason I use all three is that no one is better than the others in *every* respect. One example is that TextPad has the best Find in Files of the three. But, OTOH, it lacks incremental search which VS and Notepad++ have.
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One more thing:
I hate how build events are shared across all configurations in a C# project. C++ doesn't work that way, and with good reason! Yes you can basically write a batch file that checks the config name but that's messy. Why can't we just have separate pre & post events per config (again)?
VS 2005, UltraEdit, Microsoft Expression Web. On the Mac I use ActiveState's Komodo Edit. But the only editor that "rocks my world" is the Propellerhead Reason track editor for working on rock music. LOL.
Visual Studio and Notepad++
What's the point of all of this? Are you going to be working on a new IDE or something?
The primary Editor I use is Notepad++ => This is mainly because it supports tabbed notes, supports syntaxes of many languages and has keyword highlighting (which in some cases is amazingly helpful)
Most Preferred IDE: Eclipse => keyword highlighting (in terms of variables/methods, this is scope based), quick searchable outline (this is for member variables/methods inside the class, and can even show their access modifiers and their inheritance hierarchy), quick view of the type hierarchy for the class, call hierarchy based searching, the "build automatically" feature works well to point out errors/error-files pretty quickly, in built search tool to find resources/types.......... to name a few from the top of my head..
And I do not go to a text-alone editor when coding..
Visual Studio 2008..Thats all what i need... :)
I can't answer without intertwining usage in there. That is, you often can't unwind an IDE from a language (or platform) if the former was designed around the latter to produce a targeted RAD solution.
For example, when working with C# I think VS08 is pretty darn smart. It's made up of all these little bonds between IDE & platform that make .Net code just flow together. C# is incredibly easy, due in part to the IDE.
But if you're not doing .Net, Visual Studio is about as helpful as herpes. For C++ I'm using Borland because while I don't think much of their IDE, at least it was made to help me build C++ code.
Experiences such as these lead me to believe that the pursuit of a perfect, generic IDE is a fool's errand. Strong decoupling of the IDE from the language simply cannot produce a development environment that equals the experience delivered by a comprehensive RAD solution like Devstudio/.Net.
So I guess the short version is, I use the best tool for the job.
XCode and DashCode on Mac (I just wanted that Microsoft add a plugin like Instruments/Quartz on VS)
Visual Studio on Windows
I completely agree. For our architecture we chose an MVP implementation loosely based on what Phil Haack himself blogged about a few years back, but added more strong typing (eg. enum PageIdentifiers for each page) and the use of a dependency container for complete testability. To our delight, existing webforms programmers were up & running in this architecture in a matter of hours !
Check it out at : www.qsoft.be/.../Presenting-MvpWebTemplate-a-template-of-an-ultra-lightweight-MVP-ASPNET-architecture.aspx
I primarily use VS 2008 for .NET related stuff and Eclipse 3 for Java related stuff.
Both really rock. I prefer VS to Eclipse for its very simple solution-oriented concept, something I think Eclipse is sorely lacking. Of course, Eclipse has a ton of great features like perspectives that I think should be in VS, but ultimately VS wins the day.
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Visual Studio 2008 for .NET development
PHP Designer for PHP devel
Aptana for JavaScript devel
and the little notepad for temporary notes
Microsoft could still learn from Eclipse (e.g. Outline View, Refactoring, Incremental builds).
VS2005 for .NET (don't do much .net stuff)
VS2005 for C++ -- grudgingly, I think VS treats C++ as such a poor relation.
VB6 -- because that is how you do VB6 ;)
Delphi 6 -- That is how you do Delphi
Notepad++ -- quite like this for ah-hoc editing.
Visual Studio 2008 ,Notepad
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"Unfortunately mono doesn't support VB, so it is undesireable for use in ASP.net which should always use the VB language for web development."
Without doubt, that's one of the funniest statements I've read in a long time.
Now that I'm doing Ruby full-time, I happily spend my day in TextMate and iTerm.
Of course IMHO! It's need backing of a large company first though - IBM developed Eclipse and put it out to an open source community because they had the forsight to but it before profit. Maybe MS should open source VS - that'd do it.
Given your definitions, I think such a product already exists. It's called the "Visual Studio Shell".
msdn.microsoft.com/.../bb933751.aspx
:-p
Or maybe it's called "Eclipse", since you can just as easily modify Eclipse to function as an IDE for C# -- in fact, several already have. Of course, that ultimately involves writing Java to parse and/or compile C#/.NET which makes little kittens cry.
we have SharpDevelop. It's very customizable, has a shell you can add functionality onto, and is OSS. Still, I don't see much interest in it.
Eclipse is written by a team of more than 150 people, working full time on it, with university teams working on the code everywhere in research projects.
That's not going to happen on .NET, not in the next decade.
Would it be great if there was an eclipse for .NET? Of course, it would force MS to actually fix the truckload of tiny annoyances in the IDE instead of adding yet another visual toolkit for the high-payed consultant to do things in the worse possible way.
SharpDevelop isn't even near Eclipse, in any way. Eclipse has many features we on .NET can only dream about, even refactoring is more advanced than resharper gives us today. This is one of the benefits Java has over .NET: in numerous universities, CS departments are doing research using Java as a tool, for example in parser development, refactoring etc. Often they modify code of eclipse to see how their research pans out. Code is then often given back to eclipse in one form or the other and ends up in the eclipse ide sooner or later. VS.NET is closed source and has a horrific extension model (even with shell).
Good lord no... Having used eclipse for years to write in other languages, it does not hold a candle to Visual Studio. Although it was stable, it was slow and you can tell that the GUI was designed by *nix people, as it is about as usable as a car with square tires.
It actually turns out that with the announced introduction of MEF to the Visual Studio 2010 shell infrastructure, even the code editor is going to be completely replaceable in VS 2010 so in time the very same 'this is just a platform, it doesn't HAVE to be used for a development suite' that makes Eclipse so flexible will be coming to the .NET world.
Now, whether the actual implementation of all of this matches the present hype coming out of Redmond or not will remain to be seen; after all, these are the very same guys who gave us the 3-5 minute delay on loading the Add-References dialog box... :D
Krypton toolkit is free. Navigator is well worth the price
www.componentfactory.com
Ascend.NET is another solid collection of controls:
www.codeplex.com/ASCENDNET
WPF pretty much blows everything else out of the water. They attacked all the classic UI problems and solved them the *right* way. I shouldn't have to write my own class to change the appearance of a Button--Java/Swing got this all wrong IMO. I was a real Java nut until a few years ago when .NET 2.0 went out the door. After developing in C#/.NET for a few years, there's no way I could ever go back to Java. The language is just too limited, and the APIs are terrible IMHO.
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No! We have Visual Studio and as others have said, if anything is done it should be with the Visual Studio Shell.
IMHO, if you have to search in a file cloud for something to click on then you've already lost the game. Or perhaps that's just my carpal tunnel syndrome talking...
Bread crumbs are useful not just for file-to-file navigation but also within files. I regularly use the VS built-in navigate back / forward commands to jump around.
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Among a lot of other things, I code a lot in c++. Initially, my thesis started off (and got quite some progress) before I switched to XNA (simply for the content pipeline). As I was using C++, I could've used VS or Eclipse. What did I do? Well, it was almost a no brainer. Visual Studio is so much damn better. Now, if only they added some decent UML tools into the mix...Hang on, VS10 is gonna have UML, right?
Cuteness :)
* Better intellisense and debugging JavaScript
* Do something to increase the responsiveness (especially the IDE) - agree with Randolpho's post above.
* Also the same thing about the responsiveness when one try to add reference.
* If my code contains error (underlined) and I fixed it, it takes the IDE long time to remove the underline.
* I'd like to see IDE highlights the variable, function, class, etc. wherever used when I select them (similar to Eclipse Java Editor, or even NotePad++! kind of)
Notepad++ and VS.NET 2008 in Mac I use TextMate.
I have am slowly learning Eclipse it feels quite promising but from usability aspects I still love VS.NET.
For me VS2008 really rocks, but for quick editing (even C#) I use Programmers Notpad, or Notepad++. Recently my friends recommended me EmEditor. I am using it for a few days. Don't like it! I think I should also try Notpad2, and choose one of the 4.
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Eclipse really only handles one case all right, and that is Java. And adding to that it only handles editing java all right. Debugging is really 2nd class compared to VS. Integration with anything but CVS/SVN is anything but a fun experience.
Lately mylyn have somewhat eased the pain of some tedious things, but they are still no match for VS with TFS, not even close. (I would almost go as far as saying the VS with sourcesafe is a better deal...)
And the colloborative editing tools for simultaenous editing are really promising.
But hey it is for free and given that it is a pretty good tool that you can modify if you so please. But actually finding, downloading and building IDE is not a simple task the first time.
And as most free things you get what you pay for.
I use both Eclipse and VS everyday, and then mostly eclipse because most is done in Java (I wish Ms wouldn't have dropped Java from .Net) still. But I much prefer Vs as it is much more productive with less overall issues.
To use eclipse for C++ is really just a viable option if you don't have VS (even then express editions can be viable if you don't use plugins), because even if the VS team hasn't focused enough (or almost zip) on the C++ part of VS ince VS6, it is ahead of eclipse especially in the debugging department, but also in refactoring as the dev express refactor is free for C++.
Ruby in eclipse.. sad story still, Sapphire based VS shell is far better.
XML editor.. getting there, but the MS one is better and I could keep going.
Memory usage, well it's Java, its working set is horrendeous (VS isn't much better, but it is better especially on the working set).
Too many plugins in eclipse and it will really slow down. Custom build triggers go nuts and more often than not using the built in OSGi will get you into class loader problems when eclipse has been running for a couple of days without restart (especially if you load other java programs, shouldn't really effect it, but something is odd, still debugging that).
Eclipse's workspaces are really annoying, at least if you try to use them in somewhat the same ways as solutions (which they are not really meant for). However VS would benefitting from adding workspaces ontop of solution and projects.
So while eclipse is a really good Java editor, it is really all that it does well, at least in the line of work I am doing.
But it would naturally insanely great if VS was open sourced for people with licenses so that we can contribute and fix issues ourselves.
And VS has alot of things that need fixing, such as speed and sluggishness (eclipse is sluggish too but that doesn't mean it gives VS a right to be) and occasional crashes (eclipse ported those as well..)
But I would not want it to be free of charge, as well.. incentives seem to push development of boring features as well as fun ones.
And as always I usually think you get what you pay for.
And VS is a pretty affordable tool for the productivity it gives on a Win32 platform.
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You can try using both Hamachi and UltraVNC. This setup works for me - my XP Pro SP2 machine can remote to the Vista Home Premium machine.
I have been able to remote from xp pro to vista pro and I can get a connection from vista pro to xp pro - it brings up the desktop but drops the connection and about 1 minute - I have heard that Vista Pro has a more robust Remote Desktop but it is not real compatible with XP - I really need to connect to the XP machine from Vista - My XP will connect VPN to work (it is a desktop) - I am having surgery so I need my Vista Laptop to be able to connect to the XP machine so I can work on another floor in the house - back surgery and can't go up stairs for 1 to 2 weeks - my desktop is upstairs - My DNS is WiFi (clearwire) and not sure it that figures in the difficulty - any clues
Visual Studio 2008 for my livelihood. gvim + vim for everythign else.
You willb e happy to know your tips get the trick done between xp and windows 7
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jdeveloper and more recently netbeans 6.5 for Java development.
notepad++ for quick and dirty editing of anything
komodo edit for some stuff as well.
I'm always on the lookout for new editors/ides
................................................................................................................
hmmm may be a bit late in the day, but iwas ASP programmer, then moved to VB.net and now i do C# .net, i wouldent say VB.net is bad, i would just say C# is easier and better with regards to tools like reSharper etc that you cant really get as good with VB.net, other than that my classes are virtually the same in VB as they are in C# but the syntax is a little different? LOL it is the age old argument that i can actually argue, most people that diss VB are the ones that can only cope with one language! ;-)
Listen to yourselves, arguing over which is superior between C# and VB.NET. They compile to nearly the same code. Performance differences are not dramatic in the least, with the exception of using un-managed code in C#.
Making fun of a vb.net is simple elitism. If a person learned vb6 or lower and they are more comfortable with vb.net than C#, then let it be. VB.Net is far more capable than it's predecessor vb6 and deserves to have shaken off the negative stigma.
I’m trying to convert from MbUnit2 to MbUnit3
I note that Assert.Warning has been replaced with TestLog.Warning.WriteLine, according to blog.bits-in-motion.com/.../announcing-gallio-and-mbunit-v304.html
However I cannot make this work and can't find any documentation to help other than the link above – any suggestions?
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Its about time to clear out the backlog. CLR/.NET/Visual Studio/TDD/ALT.NET Jeremy has a nice piece here, Before you use an IoC tool, some concepts to know first Favorite Visual Studio 2008 Keyboard Shortcuts (Corey Schuman) [via Alvin ] MbUnit in Visual
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what's the use of repeating the execution of the test many times?plz let me know in what scenarios of the real time,this will be necessary?
@Simon - You need to import the Gallio.Framework. That will expose the TestLog class.
Notepad2 - for quick edits on all files (aspx, c#, php, config files e.t.c.)
Komodo - PHP programming (Komodo freakin rocks)
PHP Designer - PHP programming
VS2008 - ASP.Net programming
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DotNetZip includes a ZlibStream class for Zlib compression, as well as a DeflateStream class that replaces the built-in System.IO.Compression.DeflateStream with a more effective, efficient version.
MS-PL licensed.
:) nice, look at my happy face
Dear Aaron,
The main use of RowTest is that we can test multiple sets of data with a single test assertion..This is the power of RowTest in Mbunit..Great.
I love this blog! Give me please more arcticles :)
Why not some 1:1 screenshots? There's not much you can see in those scaled down images... :(
I think there are no any difference and easy dipent on our work.i you are doing work on vb the that way vb is easy for you.if your consept is cear the syntax is not big deal to learn any thing else.
Pingback from Dew Drop - February 25, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
will I be able to turn off cleartype because it's WPF? it gives me a terrible headache no matter how I tune it, and I know a lot of people are in the same boat...
multi-monitor - nice, triangles look a bit goofy - doesn't look like a very big target area to click - seems like it will require careful aim and therefore be disruptive to normal workflow, i.e. you have to break your rhythm to slow down and hit it square on the nose to collapse a block of code...
@matt if the expand\collapse was tied to a short-cut key then you could open up\close blocks with out breaking that flow?
If the markers were more like windows explore style collapse\expand and bigger in size would that be better. If you could also make that margin bigger to suit your eyes\style would that be better?
Better yet, if you replace the marker with what ever suited you (button, image etc) would that be better - option or better yet add-in?
Pingback from Dew Drop - February 27, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
Interesting idea - I really like the idea that unused files vanish from the cloud. How about closing the file at the same time (optionally, of course)?
I frequently find myself buried under too many tabs, especially after following some obscure code trail to isolate a pesky bug (unit tests? not so much..). Once I find the right file, I'm not relly interesting in how i got there - but I'd prefer to keep the starting file open, along with any other files I'm actively working on at the time..
Just knowing that the less interesting files will "fade away" after some time would improve my day.
Oh, and +1 for keyboard shortcuts for the cloud.
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Dave said "most people that diss VB are the ones that can only cope with one language! ;-)"
they called monolinguists =p =)
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Oh my,
I come here to check out the possibility of using .NET on UBUNTU and look what I find!
Ha it seems that the old Your Mama Codes in VB and my Grandmother forget more about BASIC than your Mama will ever know is still going strong.
Come on get with it, coding is coding is coding to be honest heck I would prefer writing my web applications in Cobol!
Now try that one on for size.
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Sad. You guys think VB.NET is a shiny VB6 when it's not.
Having used Java, C, C++, C#, VB6 and VB.NET I have to say, VB.NET is more time coding and less time with syntax. People who say VB.NET has bloated syntax have obviously never used it are are thinking VB6. Also,
Even to this day, with .NET 2008, the VS IDE handles mistakes in VB better than in C#. The case sensitivity gets annoying. Also, VB code is a lot easier to read, especially when you have to deal with somebody else's code. The only time I use C# is when I know I'll be sharing code with people stuck in C++. Everything you can do in C# you can do in VB. The only thing is that sometimes you have to use the Marshal class when using pointers in VB.NET
But yeah, VB6 was garbage. But we're not talking about VB6, are we?
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SQL Server Compact does *not* require a license for Visual Studio. You just need a license for Visual Studio if you're going to use Visual Studio to program against the DB. Have a look at www.microsoft.com/.../compact-redistribute.aspx for redistribution rights.
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When I started off in IT I made the decision to buy at least one technology book a month and read them the next month.
Now with things like amazon marketplace I manage to buy 2 - 3 books a month. I just had to sell 50 of the books I had when I first started 7 years ago which were vastly outdated!
I usually try to write proof of concept apps in each new technology (where applicable) and then bring them into work to show what we could be doing instead of .net 2.0 winforms.
I push my company extremely hard to get them to move to new frameworks and features but as you said the needs of the customer do come first, and sadly the customer is like a village idiot with a big wedge of money!
MbUnit 3 has been a long, long labour. It started around early fall of 2007 and under Jeff had grown
Pingback from Dew Drop - April 3, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
.NET Services/CSD/WCF/Oslo .NET Services March 2009 CTP Is Released - There are many exciting improvements in cross-platform interoperability, Services Bus and Workflow Service capabilities and the developer experience. Speaking of said release, Clemens
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Right on the spot. VB.NET is very fast to code since it's built on the natural language which keyboards were designed for. So basically you could argue that keyboards were designed for programming Basic. It wouldn't be true, but you could.
But it's also true that whenever I need that little extra performance for graphics and games I turn to C#.
If you'll excuse me I'm gonna go dive into some F# and see what funtional programming can provide me :)
Keep an open mind guys!
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Pingback from Dew Drop - May 6, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
How about using IronPython. That's what I am going to try. If I have to use a MS inspired framework, at least I can try to use a beautiful dynamic language. (sheds a tear as he leave his Mac for Django dev later :-). Nice framework, nice ORM.
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I am interested how successful people are using Mono in an Ubuntu world. I love ubuntu, and Netbeans/Eclipse.
I want to move to a Mono environment because I like some of the .net features, but I don't want to move to WIndows again. I like windows, I use it everyday, my preference is Linux (using it for almost 18yrs now, and 100% @ home for many yrs).
In terms of VB/C# arguement.. is compiles down to the same 'bytecode' so it really does come down to preference. As far as the IDE and editors, they are just tools used to aid the user (programmer)... I would more than likely use Mono (maybe sharpDevelop/monoDevelop) with nAnt, something like CruiseControl and either svn or git and more than likely vi (if I don't use ant IDE). These are my preference that suite my style and ways of doing things... this is one of the great pluses of Linux :-the flexibility of choice.
if anyone has one and serious Mono development using the likes of Ubuntu I would be glad to read your posts!!!
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Love Autofac for:
-Expression configuration
-Container scopes
-Decent docs
-Integrations
-Modules
-Compact and unobtrusive design
-Responsive project owners
Have not yet found it wanting for anything.
NInject because it supports CF.Net
I second the love for AutoFac. I assume, Ben, that Auto-wiring support is a given?
Support for collections (ie, dependencies of type IEnumerable<T>) is another thing I've found very useful.
The WCF/ASP.Net integration is great.
It's useful that there's also a Silverlight implementation.
Windsor. Mostly for convention over configuration and extensibility. Also proven on several projects already and have absolutely no complaints.
Samuel - Yes, I had auto-wiring as a given. However, I did not realise that Autofac auto-wiring was as smart as it is (just re-read the wiki page). So I add that to my list, and crank up my Autofac fanboy level.
Pingback from Dew Drop - June 10, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
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I'll have to do another survey of the available options some time soon, as I haven't done one in a good while now, but when last I checked Structure Map won out on its good balance of feature set vs. performance but even moreso on its assistance in getting a convention-based assembly scanning and component registration process up and running easily without forcing us to adopt an arbitrary pattern of assembly organization, component interface base interfaces, naming patterns, etc. Instead we were able to design one that worked best for our project and then add a tiny amount of code to get SM working with that convention.
Here we uses Spring.Net.
I like:
- None invasive IoC container, never get in your way when you code. You don't need to inherit or implement anything, neither to added any attribute. But if you want, there are available and give you more power and/or convenience.
- Most of features mentioned about except SilverLight support (not 100% sure but I don't think it does).
- Modularized, use only when you need.
- Option of auto-wiring or take full control, or somewhere in between.
- Convenient data access support.
* Consistent data access exception abstraction, make you service layer code much easier to write.
* Data
* NHibernate integration.
* Loaded ADO support feature to simplifies ADO code and automatically database neutral.
* Declarative Transaction Support
- Factories automatically expose PONO class as WebService (asmx or WCF), Remoting object or maybe something else that I don't know.
- Common Logger think adapter layer make your choose of logging framework as a simply configuration task. This is not exactly part of Spring but was built by the same team. NHibernate is adopting it.
- Ported from Java's proven No.1 IoC container.
I want to see:
- Hopefully, it will still keep the philosophy as an non-invasive framework.
- programmable configuration in addition to XML configuration.
- Detailed tutorial
- Integrate with some advanced AOP, for example PostSharp, so that you can inject dependency into objects created by the new keyword.
The Joel Test is still alive - my attempt to update for today's world is here:
geekswithblogs.net/.../132842.aspx
Autofac.
One of the biggest reasons is there's a lot of guidance on the Autofac website on how to use IoC correctly rather than using the container in a service-locator style.
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Pingback from Dew Drop – August 6, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
Remove the blue space around the editor, make the tabs smaller, remove the dropdowns for code navigation and you get a really minimalistic editor :) BTW: I hope there will be a way to get rid of that blue background -- totally useless -- and make the tabs a bit smaller.
What color scheme is that? Looks nice! I'd really like to see deeper skinning support in VS to allow me to scroll through a themes gallery or something similar.
Don't forget about alt-shift-enter. It's like hitting F11 in your browser. Much easy than a separate theme I think.
I lived and died by that when I was teaching in classrooms with only 800x600 projectors.
@JC that is Rob Connerys VibrantInk theme that he ported from TextMate - blog.wekeroad.com/.../textmate-theme-for-visual-studio-take-2 all the cool cats run it (most of the Gu's posts show code that uses these theme).
A theme gallery (like whats in Windows 7) would be a really neat addition.
You can also remove the useless line numbers. The current line number is already available in the status bar (with the column number).
I use IDE the same way, but also I've placed some toolbar buttons on the menu bar. It can be easily done by drag'n'drop when "Customize" dialog is opened on Commands tab.
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This seems very hacky to me.
And we sometimes use NUnit and sometimes MBUnit.
Is it true that it is better to use Gallio to run either NUnit or MBUnit Tests as the output from Galiio is the same for either unit test type?
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"The issue with mocking is that many implementations only work with some code. Forces you to code differently. "
My experience is that it forces you ** think ** in a different way.
It forces you design / code in a testable way.
This may be hard, and time consuming.
Another one is www.pnmsoft.com/sequence_bpm_workflow.aspx
"would you want the ability to create your own and plug them (or even share\download others)?"
Very much so
JetBrains have started working on R# for VS10. Check it here:
www.jetbrains.net/.../ReSharper+for+Visual+Studio+2010+%28Preview%29
Interesting Finds: September 6, 2009
I thought VS2008 already has refactoring.
Anyway, I'm not sure what MS intentions on providing refactoring on VS2010 are but if they are the same as what they gave us refactoring in VS2008, then it is a very simple choice, R# is the winner :)
I will only use it if they make refactoring more responsive. Until then R# for me.
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Use it, teach it, love it... :0)
Looking into it, after seeing Lee Brandt's talk at the St. Louis Day of .NET
Yes and yes! I primarily use the context specification variant of BDD, but I find the focus on the behavior of the system (particularly from the end-user perspective) more valuable than names based purely on implementation. I've also found that it is easier to explain to newcomers because they don't get caught up on the whole "test" in TDD, but instead can focus on it as a design tool.
Makes testing more natural imho. I also noticed that it is easier to explain why we need testing to our business and functional people.
Pingback from Dew Drop – September 9, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
I'm interested in BDD, but I have never used it.
Interested but still reading about agile and solid at the moment
Yes to Context/Specification-style testing. I don't even use the term BDD much, these days (too loaded of a term). Or, if I want to laugh smugly to myself, I say I'm practitioner of Bellware-Driven-Development.
What's important is the break from the traditional TDD "Class/System Under Test" model of thinking that tends to lead to tests that talk about and verify an implementation, and not really *desired behavior* of a component. Any experienced practitioner of TDD will say as much (as they've learned from pain and experience), so really this is a codification of what experienced TDD'ers already know.
Also, I feel less squeemish about testing interactions between systems as an exploratory, implementation-phase exercise when doing Context/Specification. The tight 'red-green-refactor' cycle in TDD dictates one test -> one feature or thereabouts, but that isn't strictly neccesary in Context/Specification, where you "stub" a number of specifications for behavior you want, and work through implementing the specs as you add the functionality.
Context/Specification (for me) is also about revealing the utility and use of a component through easy to read/meangingful code in the context/because segments (the Arrange/Act portion of a traditional TDD tests). Once again: I think more deliberate attention is paid to this, compared to traditional TDD, even though learned practitioners will tell you that this is something they try to do.
Anyhow, its definitely improved the way I think about testing, but my process/thoughts on the matter still evolve constantly.
I don't get it, seems like the end user tells you what they want in their own words\way (even if that logically contradicts itself as is often the case) and you make all other decisions from there on yourself, thats not a methodology at all. I do it all the time, but its usually infuriating, am I missing something?
BDD is just TDD with different method names. Barely deserves mention.
I am in agreement with the comments above: refactoring that effectively requires compilation before anything happens is refactoring not worth using. It simply can never keep up at the speed with which I can (and need to) apply faster, better-engineered refactoring tools.
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Pingback from Dew Drop – September 11, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew
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I am somewhat knowledgeable in working with computers but am losing my freaking mind with this issue. Im running windows xp sp3 and i desperately need to remotely access my mothers Toshiba satellite laptop running vista home premium.
Is there anyway someone could give a step by step tutorial for dummies so i can actually accomplish this? My parents recently moved about 9 hours away and it is impossible to walk my mother through things over the phone.
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This makes me remember this thing my brother pretty much always said...
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This brings to mind something my cousin would always say...
However it's so inappropriate right now...
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It was certainly interesting for me to read that article. Thanx for it. I like such topics and anything that is connected to this matter. I would like to read a bit more soon.
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Can you update this for the recent Gallio download? The UI is different and instead of loading assemblies, we're loading files?
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If you know how to write well architected applications, it does not matter which programming language or platform you use, its simply a matter of syntax. I speak a number of programming languages and do not prefer one over the other. If you are a good programmer, then you can make any platform\language do what you want it to do with little fan fare or opinion.
I am excited about the opportunity to run MONO. Something new to explore ;-).
Hello, Dear Colleagues.
Sorry that is not quite in the topic copyright weblogs.asp.net appeal,
want to open a long blog or forum about <a href=www.pnevmatika.su/>pneumatic weapons</a>, but never with the board software and the blog can not define.
Need engine because of the blog and forum with the normal protection against spam, and then my friend found a forum filled with spam, and its already after 2 weeks.
And you are a software engine for weblogs.asp.net use? Which script forums and blogs I choose to open a forum about air guns?
I'll be glad to any advice, thanks in advance.
I like NInject and Autofac, because they are lightweight, easy to use and the syntax, Autofac also support lambda, it's cool.
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Assert.Over.Pairs and Assert.Over.KeyedPairs are also interesting...
Hello everyone! Who knows where to upload the film Avatar?
I even bought the film Avatar for a SMS to rsskino.ru/.../avatar.html , the link was, but download fails, the system will boot quite strange cocoa something.
Men, advise where to normal as quickly download film avatar?
Great news! It's good to see one of the major contributors of MbUnit to come back after a so long period. Welcome back!
Hi could anone help me to project in .net with flex
please
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Мое ИМХО, что не стоит писать такие посты вообще. Никогда
Потыкаю по рекламке в качестве благодарности за статью!
мне кажется: отлично. а82ч
Увлекательно. Поброжу у вас еще. А долго ли писали этот пост?
я вот что скажу: шикарно... а82ч
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That is a a very smart approach. Thnks for sharing
That's great, I never thought about Add MbUnit to Cruise Control like that before.
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Please advise on the best choice Script Deployment program available for download?
I Googled the web and discovered the following:
Kaseya.com
GFI.com
Logmein.com
They all look different... Does anyone has a priority?
By the way had somebody hear of that software:
<a href="n-able.com/">N-able remote desktop software</a> ?
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I would like to see full IDE support for dynamic languages in VS Next, with a special emphasis on debugging: the ability to attach the dynamic language's console to the process running in the debugger. The ability to fully examine what is going on (e.g., by running ad hoc queries on the data at the breakpoint) is the kind of debugging that saves me time, and allows me to figure out the edge cases that were not foreseen.
I'd like to the ability to 'record' a set of interactions with my application. These would then be played back as a part of a test. I should be able to easily parameterise the input that is typed during the recording. So the scenario is:
1) start my app in record mode.
2) navigate through menus/screens to a particular place.
3) type some input, select some items from a list.
4) produce some output from the app.
5) close app and stop recording.
6) go to the recorded script and replace my typed input with %1, replace list.selectedindex = 13 with list.selectedindex = %2 and save.filename = %3
7) construct a test database that has various values for %1, %2 and %3 as well as expected outputs
8) write a routine to compare outputs and call this at the end of the script
9) run the test script using the database to change the input. The outputs would be saved to a folder and the function would return pass/fail.
Basically I don't want to spend days writing GUI test code (using White) like this:
app = Core.Application.Launch(strAppLocation)
winMain = app.GetWindow(Core.UIItems.Finders.SearchCriteria.ByAutomationId("frmMDI"), Core.Factory.InitializeOption.NoCache)
mdicld = winMain.MdiChild(Core.UIItems.Finders.SearchCriteria.ByControlType(System.Windows.Automation.ControlType.Pane))
but = mdicld.Get(Of Core.UIItems.Button)("Button_Next")
etc
mattpil29 @ google mail . c o m
I would like to see it super fast and error free.
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Listed in the order of importance to me.
1. Better extensibility. 2010 has made improvements, but it's still overly complicated extending the test framework.
1a. First of all, registering DLLs is a non-starter. If a test project has referenced the DLL, the testing framework should be able to consider it an extension and go with it. End of story.
1b. We shouldn't be locked into the current attributed class/method structure. Just give me an interface to define that returns a collection of tests to run, and let me go.
2. A new test runner. The current runner's use of a table for display is barely usable for the vanila style tests. As tests become more complex, with longer names and structures, it becomes very difficult to read the output in a table. Like most other test runners, this REALLY should display as a tree, not a table. Allow the display to be extended with test specific visualizations.
3. Stop doing test deployment when tests are run in the IDE. Deployment makes sense when run as part of an automated build process using continuous integration, but when I'm using the IDE I'm practicing TDD/BDD and deployment wastes disk space and precious time.
Nearly anything else that I or anyone else wants can be trivially built on top of what exists, given these changes. That means nothing else should be on the vNext list. On the vNext++ list you can get back to innovating, possibly with further data driven, UI automation, asynchronous testing, etc. test types.
I can go into specifics of any of this. Just contact me.
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Good starting point mate. I also think one needs to start refactoring the code to get abreast with the coding structure to get the hang on it. Thereafter, it will be easier to plan because by then you would have a good grasp of the pain points et al.
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The majority TDD is just a cover up for the lack of design by contract.
If you have DBC, you code is tested repeatedly, all the time.
It's easy to see why. Almost all TDD test cases set up data that matches some precondition (and if lucky, asserts the preconditions). Then executes a command. Lastly asserts the postconditions.
Nick
Nick,
DbC is not a replacement for unit testing or even TDD. The concepts overlap some, but they are complimentary not mutually exclusive.
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Cool - do you still get the the slow debugging with mbunit problem in 2010?
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Nice post, thanks for writing!
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is the test long is there alot of questions?
Truly great article you have here. It would be great to read more about such topic. Thnx for posting such data.
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Really cool domain to pay attention to to my mind. The only question I have, why haven't you you place this article to social bookmarks? This might bring much traffic to this article.
I feel your pain.....
Which build of Gallio are you showing here? I've tried many of the dailies with VS2010RTM, and none of them appear to work.
I wanted one for a project I was working on..couldn't find any so started one on codeplex with some colleagues.
It's only been going for a couple of months so doesn't have many features. Makes it very lightweight though :-)
http://objectflow.codeplex.com
Nevermind. Realized that it was working with new MbUnit projects I created from the template after installing Gallio, but not with the pre-existing ones we created ages ago. Found out that the existing projects worked well by adding this <ProjectTypeGuids> fragment to the .csproj file.
<ProjectTypeGuids>{3AC096D0-A1C2-E12C-1390-A8335801FDAB};{FAE04EC0-301F-11D3-BF4B-00C04F79EFBC}</ProjectTypeGuids>
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