Carl Franklin

.NET Wonk

Carl and Rory Take 2?

Rory and I are going to be hosting a new Internet Talk Show someday soon, but we're getting a bit hung up on the issue of when. So, let me describe the show and maybe you could provide us with some feedback?

While .NET Rocks! is very cool, its audience is limited to .NET developers and managers (for the most part). We want to do this full time eventually, and that means we need to set our sights a bit higher in terms of our content and target audience.

This new show will either be one or two hours long, and will be of interest to thinking adults. I don't know how else to describe them... people who read? people with more than one brain cell firing at any one time? Basically, a general interest talk show.  Of course, it will be funny. Public Radio with a pulse?  Bob Reselman's show and the show with Dan Appleman on PC security are closer to what we want to do here.

I don't want it to be Oprah, though. So, we're not going to talk about the things most talk shows are focused on. Instead, we hope to expose listeners to interesting people (authors, scientists, technologists, innovators, or anyone whom we think would be a good guest).

We want to make it a showcase for musicians and bands that you'd NEVER otherwise hear, so we'll have a mechanism for submitting original music. It's possible we will have a live band in the studio, even if once in a while.

Rory is going to do some classic Rory bits, and we will most likely involve the talents of some local comedians and writers. 

Of course it will be extremely interactive. We will not only take questions the way we do during .NET Rocks! but we'll have a dynamic website where people can chat. We might take snapshots during the show and post them, or have the guest send us photos that we can put up.

We'll start out streaming on the Internet, and if XM Radio or even radio radio wants to pick us up, that would be great. But, like all other Carl enterprises <g> it will start small and grow.

Got a good idea where we're going with this? Good.

Now, I think it would be very difficult to get a big listenership during the day. It's not like Imus or Howard Stern that construction workers have on while they're hammering out Jersey Barriers, it's interactive. It's hard to do it in the evening, because that's a pretty small window when your audience is worldwide.

Dan Appleman was thinking this would be a good midnight show. I like that idea, but I'm a night person. Not everyone out there is. In fact, I think we're in the minority.

I was thinking Saturday afternoon. That's when I personally love to listen to the radio while I'm doing laundry, washing dishes, cleaning up, or tinkering with my computers, or just sitting and listening.

What do you think?

When is the best time for us to broadcast it?

One hour or two?

Are we smoking crack?

Comments

James Avery said:

Wow, very interesting idea. Personally I think Saturday is a busy day for most people, whether they are going to kids sports, doing yard work, etc... I think it would be hard to get people to sit down and listen. (Since you are starting with the internet, most people will have to be at there computer)

I think Sunday might be better, maybe in the late afternoon. That is usually a relaxing time for people. (I guess some people might have problem with people saying fuck on Sunday, but not me)

-James
# April 14, 2004 12:49 PM

Carl Franklin said:

LOL - Sunday is also a great possibility.
# April 14, 2004 12:51 PM

Scott Galloway said:

Aemember 'during the day' only refers to your particular colony - this generally equates to 'late in the evening' or 'middle of the night' for most of the rest of the planet. I'm probably a bad person to ask - I listen to .NET rocks despite the interstitial babble not because of it...sorry!
# April 14, 2004 12:53 PM

Brian said:

Will this be in place of the .NET Rocks show? Or are you going to do this also?
# April 14, 2004 12:55 PM

Bill Vaughn said:

Hummm. Finding a time is tough. I don't have much "free" time (sadly) but I would probably listen occasionally during the day (my time).
# April 14, 2004 12:58 PM

Carl Franklin said:

We will keep doing .NET Rocks! until a judge orders us to stop! <g>
# April 14, 2004 12:59 PM

Scott Galloway said:

Umm...may have been a little harsh..I mean the doscussion in between of course :-)
# April 14, 2004 1:02 PM

kip said:

Well I guess that if you are smoking crack, then midnight would be a pretty good time!

I know that I very rarely am able to listen to the live .Net Rocks show because I'm always busy at work on friday, so weekends sounds good.

Also any idea of your demographics? In other words structuring the show for a worldwide audience makes sense in the Carl & Rory Take Over the World schema, but if most of your listeners are US East Coast, and there's one guy in Vienna who calls and bitches about the time, well then.....
# April 14, 2004 1:03 PM

Chris Kinsman said:

If it is carried on other than the internet then that really affects the time. If XM picked it up I would prefer to see it in an evening drive slot. i.e. between 4 and 7PST. That is my locale centric view. From that standpoint I also prefer Saturday morning.

In any case if it is Internet only I will probably end up burning it to CD and listening on the evening drive.
# April 14, 2004 1:05 PM

Pete Beech said:

I'd vote for Sunday too - if only because I'm in Europe, and if it was Saturday afternoon for you, it'd be Saturday night for us.

I hope this doesn't mean the end of .NET rocks, or less emphasis on that, because I wouldn't be able to stand the withdrawl symptoms.

Also, really like the idea about showcasing musicians - it'd be great if there was a feature or even a slot about musicians and technology. I'm a musician myself, and would love to submit some of my stuff.
# April 14, 2004 1:09 PM

Carl Franklin said:

> I hope this doesn't mean the end of .NET rocks <

OK, I'll say it again.

<BIG>
<STRONG>
.NET Rocks! is not going away!!!
</STRONG>
</BIG>
# April 14, 2004 1:11 PM

Pete Beech said:

sorry, didn't refresh enough, so missed your comment about not stopping .NET Rocks! Phew..
# April 14, 2004 1:12 PM

Carl Franklin said:

lol.. no prob.
# April 14, 2004 1:13 PM

Carl Franklin said:

I just had a very strange idea: Instantaneous transcription.

So, you're online. You can't listen, but you can read. Somone in the studio transcribes the show in real-time, and it becomes a permanent document available online.

Ah the things we could do with money... :-)
# April 14, 2004 1:25 PM

Dana McNeil said:

Carl,

I'm glad you don't want to be oprah. ;-)

I think the biggest obstacle might be finding a niche' that is within your expertise... Obviously that's one of the reasons .net rocks is so great, because you and rory know the in's and outs of it, and therefore can guide the show along. If you end up having a show that has conent you just find interesting, then it becomes more "journalistic", and I think it's a really different sort of show then what makes .net rocks great.

As far as a time, imho, I can't listen to a live feed at work during the day, and on my time off I'm too busy to sit down for an hour or two, so I get my .net rocks fix through the downloads. The interactive idea is great though, and maybe others might be more inclined to participate.

Keep up the great work, and good luck!
# April 14, 2004 1:39 PM

Dave Balzer said:

I would love to see a show like this take off. I'm a huge fan of dotNetRocks.

Weekends are big family time for me and probably imposible for me to listen live. Would you archive these shows for download as you do with dotNetRocks? This would probably be a must for me.
# April 14, 2004 1:41 PM

M Kenyon said:

>Instantaneous transcription
Voice recognition software, taking multiple inputs, can then tag the appropriate input with the appropriate ID.

So does that mean we'd get more tech content on DNR?

Also, where can I get some more of Rory's music.
# April 14, 2004 1:54 PM

Addy Santo said:

If this is internet based, I would expect a large portion of your audience to listen to on-demand streaming. Is .NET Rocks even available live? I follow it, but on my schedule...

And I think this is a great idea, and if anyone can make it come to life- you are the guys. Save this thread so you can come back in 10 years when you r a big star and remember how it started :)
# April 14, 2004 2:09 PM

Carl Franklin said:

Well, I don't think a host needs expertise in order to make a show work - take .NET Rocks! for example <g>

No, seriously, some of my heros include Michael Feldman, who does Whaddya Know. He's intelligent, and although he isn't an expert on his guests' topics, he reads up and does his homework, and he lets the guest shine. That's what it's about, I think.

I think a good host actually knows how to play dumb and be curious, asking the questions that the listeners want to ask.
# April 14, 2004 2:30 PM

Bob Reselman said:

Whatever you do, don't smoke crack.

It's not good for you and eventually leads to a life of crime and asocial irresponsiblity.

And, now as I think about it, don't run for national office either.
# April 14, 2004 3:49 PM

C Shadle said:

OK, we got it, you're keeping Friday's .NET Rocks! (you'd better, we've got duct tape, need I say more????)

Like your idea, but considering your forward thinking asperations, why not have a M-F show?

One day would feature .NET Rocks, another could feature a particular industry technology, another philosopy for reader types, another science breakthroughs, etc. let you mind go wild....

and like the other gent, weekends are reserved for family, I wouldn't listen to live or archived but on M-F.

PS..too rural for DSL/Cable, I have Satellite. When do I get to see Carl & Rory on something like Tech TV?
# April 14, 2004 3:50 PM

Josh Pollard said:

I love dnr and would absolutely love something else from you guys! So I am totally in favor of another show. I agree that making it during the day time would be difficult. I can listen to dnr live for the most part, but anything more interactive than the webform to submit questions is beyond what I could do during the day. I would suggest a weekday evening (Monday-Thursday, people are busy on Friday and Saturday nights) or a Sunday evening.

Can't wait to hear it!
# April 14, 2004 4:09 PM

Jesse Ezell said:

I'd love to see another show. However, although interviewing some scientists and inventors might be interesting, I don't know if it is interesting enough that I would take time out of my day to listen. My knee jerk reaction is that I would probably listen one or two times and then decide I had better ways to spend my time.


It would be very cool to have a show along the lines of what Artima is doing. There are plenty of non-.NET specific guys (like Bjarne Stroustrup or Martin Fowler) that have great insight, but aren't completely .NET oriented, and there isn't really any place to hear their input on application architecture, etc.

As for times, I definately wouldn't listen to anything live on the weekend unless it was broadcasted on the radio and I was alone in the car driving somewhere.
# April 14, 2004 4:44 PM

Ian said:

Hey Carl,

I'm a huge fan, but I see a few danger signs lurking ahead.

The reason I'm a devoted .net rocks fan is because it TEACHES me things. In this vertical market you have very little competition. I listen to LEARN.

You guys are funny, but if I want to laugh I'll watch a chris rock dvd. Your music is cool, but if I want music I'll listen to eminem.

You guys are talented and have enough energy that you want to create more content, here is an idea: more videos like you did a few weeks ago. I like the videos I'm starting to see on channel 9. Another idea would be bunches of 5-10 minute audio/video searchable by keyword. For example if I'm having trouble with commandbuilder object, boom I'm listening to your talk with Bill Vaugn.

Good Luck!

Ian
# April 14, 2004 5:11 PM

Carl Franklin said:

> why not have a M-F show

Because I want a life. <g>

> Your music is cool, but if I want music I'll listen to eminem.

That's like saying If I want gourmet fare I'll go to Wendy's

> here is an idea: more videos like you did a few weeks ago

Why does everyone think we're going to stop being geeks if we do a show about anything but programming?

> It would be very cool to have a show along the lines of what Artima is doing...

*sigh*
# April 14, 2004 6:12 PM

Carl Franklin said:

> although interviewing some scientists and inventors might be interesting, I don't know if it is interesting enough that I would take time out of my day to listen

How about an interview with the team at NASA who wrote the code behind the Spirit Rover?

I think your expectations of "some scientists and inventors" might be a bit low.

Remember, there are non-programmer nerds in the world.
# April 14, 2004 6:15 PM

James D. Beine said:

Carl & Rory,

Hello, what about doing the shows live and scheduling them in an organized way like MS does Web Casts? Not at any specific interval. Take all the time you need to produce each show making each show the best it can be. Then, when you edit the shows content you could "time shift" the content (and adds) to give that episode longevity, being this show is geared at "thinkers", the goal would be to have "content", and that doesn't happen at "intervals".

Note: If this idea sucks just make it a good show and definitely hire a (super-blogger) transcriber so we can get the highlights on RSS in the aggregators. This would increase the live audience many times if I am right.

Best Regards,

Jamie
# April 14, 2004 8:41 PM

SBC said:

How about a 'Jerry Springer' type show? We could get a couple of .NETters having a good bout of boxing (without gloves of course).. for example, Rory vs. Roy..
:-)
# April 14, 2004 8:46 PM

Catatonic said:

I download Dot Net Rocks to a flash memory player, and listen to half an hour each day while I'm taking a walk outside. If your new show is 90 minutes long, it would give me something new to listen to every day.
# April 14, 2004 9:09 PM

Mark Hoffman said:


Can you define what your purpose for doing the show would be? The purpose for .NET rocks is pretty straightforward: Talk and teach .NET. You've filled a niche and the listeners followed.

You say "we hope to expose listeners to interesting people (authors, scientists, technologists, innovators, or anyone whom we think would be a good guest)."

but to what end? I listen to .NET rocks because it's educational and entertaining at the same time. If someone were to ask you "Why should I listen to .NET Rocks?" your answer would be simple. What would the answer be if someone were to ask you "Why should I listen to the Cark and Rory Show?"

I just think the reasoning has to go beyond exposing listeners to interesting people, but rather fulfill a need that isn't being filled. (Much like what .NET Rocks does.)

# April 14, 2004 10:24 PM

Carl Franklin said:

> If someone were to ask you "Why should I listen to .NET Rocks?" your answer would be simple. What would the answer be if someone were to ask you "Why should I listen to the Cark and Rory Show?"

I have listened to radio shows that have (get this) nothing to do with programming that have actually influenced me or changed me in some way that I did not expect, for the better. This American Life is one, Whaddya Know is another, Talk of the Nation Science Friday is yet another.

An amazing thing happens when you get intelligent people together to talk about interesting things: dialogue.

I'm not talking about the McLaughlin Group, CNN Crossfire, Hardball, or any of that crap.

Think of the show we did live with Dan Appleman on Security for teens. Had nothing to do with programming. It was great.

This week's show with Bob Reselman had nothing to do with .NET as a technology and could be understood by anyone with SSFS (simultaneous synaptic firing syndrome). Again, great stuff.

How many other people out there would you like to sit down and have a beer with, or invite over for dinner?

Ian, did you LEARN anything from this week's show? It wasn't about .NET. I learned a lot. I don't know about you.

There's a guy in Hebron, CT who hooked his computer up to 150 maple trees (for sugaring) so he can measure the sap flow from his desk, and only service the buckets that are full. He's not a programmer. I want to talk to that guy.

I'm not talking about a "new way" to train programmers here, and I'm not talking rocket science. I'm talking good old edutainment - but for the rest of the nerd world, not just for us.

It's quite possible you'd have no reason to listen to it, but there are many who would, I believe.
# April 15, 2004 12:52 AM

Pete Beech said:

By the sound of it, I reckon you'd be into a lot of the stuff on BBC Radio 4 ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/ ), particularly a show called "In Our Time" ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_archive_home.shtml ). Maybe a bit dry, but absolutely fascinating stuff for thinking people. (All the shows are archived for on-demand listening.)
# April 15, 2004 5:23 AM

Carl Franklin said:

Pete,

"A bit dry" is a big problem with these kinds of shows. Listen to this one: http://www.notmuch.com/Show

Just pick any archive and listen. You learn a few things, it's interesting, and entertaining at the same time.
# April 15, 2004 6:19 AM

Simon Tocker said:

Hi Carl,

Love the Idea I've yet to catch up with the latest show been so busy but I loved the show with Dan Appleman. I thought that was one of the best I've listened to, even though there was not a lot if any coding. I hope you give this a go I will certainly listen. Mixing in the comedy element and music is a good idea as one topic shows can be dry.

As for time I'm five hours ahead any way so it doesnt really matter as long as you archive them.
# April 15, 2004 6:30 AM

Josh Baltzell said:

I think ti is a great idea. What are you going to lose if you try it for a few episodes?

I would say you should start out under 2 hours and see how the time fills up. I am positive some guests will be much more interesting than others. I think that is the reason they do panels on a lot of shows.

I can't guarentee I will listen live weekly, but I will give it a listen for the first few weeks at least.
# April 15, 2004 9:33 AM

TomB said:

I think it's a great idea, and suggest you pick whatever time is convenient for you. Most of us will have to download, and listen off hours anyway.

Do we really have to be thinking though? Like will that be a requirement.

I've always enjoyed listening to intelligent people talk about what they specialize in. But it may also be interesting to hear them speak on subjects that are not.

Scott Hanselman fascinates me, and I'd like to hear his take on stuff outside of programming. Talking about his trip to Northern Africa for example.

Or, Stephen Hawking could tell us why he prefers Coke over Pepsi (or vice versa?)
# April 15, 2004 12:13 PM

Scott said:

I never listen to the show live, I download the MP3 and listen to it on my daily commute or while I'm at work.
I may be in the minority here but I generally fast forward through all of the banter at the start of the show and get straight into the interviews. So a second show with more banter wouldn't appeal to me.
# April 15, 2004 6:49 PM

Paolo said:

I have to say that other than the normal 8 (or more like 10) to 5 or 6, the prime hours I spend in front of the computer is 10pm to 2am (phoenix time). This is the time that lovelines is on - ok i'm not in high school and the show really *shouldn't* interest me, but it does - i mostly listen to it because i think adam corolla is damn funny.

anyway, in my opinion a time slot like that is one where a lot of people are up, and personally i don't like to fill it with tv.
# April 16, 2004 12:02 AM

NJ John said:

"people with more than one brain cell firing at any one time"... Well that rules me out. ;-)

But really - what the hey Carl, it's worth a try. It would be cool to see you and Rory extended beyond .NET geekdom.

As for time slot, as long as the shows are archived and downloadable a-la "Rocks" it doesn't really matter THAT much - unless you are counting heavily on call-ins and listener interaction beyond the chat room.

Hope it gets off the ground. Heck, I'd love to help write some bits! :-D
# April 16, 2004 12:46 PM

mnrp said:

Of course it's ok to have different audiences for these shows. Some will listen to one or the other, some to both.
# April 17, 2004 12:22 PM

J Donnici said:

I thought the show with Bob Reselman was excellent. I went into it expecting just another "rant on offshore outsourcing" and thinking I'd be disappointed with a non-techie show... but I came away with a completely different feeling. The discussions on why we do what we do, what it contributes to our lives and society, and what the role of the "citizen" is in an "information age" were all very thought-provoking. I spent a bunch of time at lunch with a colleague (not a DNR listener) talking about many of those issues from our own perspectives. Great stuff.

So while I'll still tune in to .NET Rocks for the tech/code stuff, I'd happily tune in to a "broader audience" show. I think doing it during the week is the best idea, probably during the lunch time like .NET Rocks.

Sure, it'd be great to listen to it live while driving, but until you're on an over-the-air system (AM/XM), who streams audio to their car? With a mid-day broadcast, US listeners can tune in from their desks around lunch and much of Europe can tune in during their evening.

Making it accessible via a download after the fact will also be key.

Good luck!
# April 19, 2004 11:55 AM

Grant said:

I concur with J Donnici; I would listen via any archives that would be available for download -- there's no "good" time when I could regularly be listening live.

# April 19, 2004 2:10 PM

M Kenyon said:

>How about an interview with the team at NASA who wrote the code behind the Spirit Rover?

I believe they wrote that in Java.

>Stephen Hawking could tell us why he prefers Coke over Pepsi (or vice versa?)

Now there's a guest. Of course he likes to get his questions in advance.

Again, I like during the week day where I can listen at work. But where is most of the audience going to be listening from? And how many could listen live at any time?
# April 20, 2004 9:04 AM
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