AJAX thoughts

re: AJAX thoughts

Marc — Tue, 04 Apr 2006 04:31:00 GMT

Hi David,

this is exactly what I'm thinking, but with this I'm alone with some other JavaScript developers. I shared a lot of feedback since Michael has released his first Ajax.NET library. "Nobody wants to care about JavaScript, nobody wants to write any line of JavaScript code." he told me everyday.

My understanding of AJAX enabled web application is that you HAVE to write a lot of JavaScript code. With ALTAS the developer is enabled to write similar code like you can write with Ajax.NET Professional, and that is the benefit when comparing ATLAS with other libraries that are only moving the postback to a XMLHTTP request; but you can also use the simple to use postback replacement with web controls using ATLAS.

ATLAS, Ajax.NET Professional and Ruby on Rails are comming with a couple of prototype functions, I think they all are very similar, nothing to compare really.

Marc

re: AJAX thoughts

David Findley — Tue, 04 Apr 2006 03:32:00 GMT

I didn't mean to come off so harsh on Atlas. The JavaScript library is looking really good so far. Alot of effort has been put into it to make it feel like the .NET framework. The update panel also seems to be a bit more integrated than the Componant Art equivilant.

Also I am aware that you can do AJAX with Atlas and never touch a server control. In fact you could just use the JavaScript library with ruby on rails if you really wanted to. And just like you say you can even use it with a PHP site.

I'm just judging from some of the reactions that some of our devs have had to the existing AJAX solutions that exist today. Maybe Atlas will solve all those problems by the time it ships. I've been trying to get our devs to prototype with Atlas but it has been difficult since so far its only been said to be part of VS.Next.

The fear of JavaScript isn't a problem with Atlas. But there is alot of marketing hitting the web these days about how library X enables you to do AJAX and you never see the JavaScript. Even ruby on rails has some of this. I know its splitting hairs, but I'd prefer more of the message you just gave: 80% of the time its all taken care of and 20% of the time your gonna be down in there slinging JavaScript code.

Michael Schwarz's post just struck a nerve with me. I think to do effective client side development the developers shouldnt be afraid of JavaScript and their tools shouldnt be telling them that it's a scary thing that should be hidden from them.

re: AJAX thoughts

scottgu — Tue, 04 Apr 2006 00:03:00 GMT

Atlas supports both a server centric (where you ship UI back and forth between a browser and server) and a client centric programming approach (where you are typically exhanging data back and forth).

The client centric approach with Atlas is a very rich client-side javascript library, and if you are a Javascript developer today you'll find it provides a rich toolset of support. It also provides a nice object oriented library that maps nicely with .NET types, and which can easily call to .NET based web-services. You can also use the client-side model completely independent of the ASP.NET page model and/or even ASP.NET on the backend (we demoed going against PHP at the MIX conference).

The server-centric Atlas model actually works very nicely with the ASP.NET page model. Because it is implemented fairly richly with the page lifecycle, it is actually pretty easy to integrate within an existing page. The hierarchical control model actually works very nicely with Ajax when building composite UI (the concepts map well). For 80% of Ajax style apps, the server centric is probably the way to go. Where you want to push the browser even farther (for example: http://preview.local.live.com), you have the fully power of the client-side library.

Hope this helps,

Scott

P.S. I'd definitely recommend checking out http://atlas.asp.net for more information on Atlas.