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My Thoughts On The Paul Hamm Gold Medal Controversy

For those of you who are not familiar with the controversy over Paul Hamm's gold medal in the men's all-around gymnastics at the Olympics, check out http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5784651/ to catch up. Here's my simplified version of the story, which I will try to make interesting for those who don’t follow gymnastics religiously:

The men's all-around gymnastics competition consists of a bunch of male athletes performing flips and gyrations on various apparatuses dragged in from the local junkyard. Each apparatus differs slightly because some have ropes tied to them or bars welded on or whatever. I think one of them had most of a broken bathtub while another used the chassis of an abandoned ’57 Chevy. Regardless, there are judges who rate each athlete for their performances based on a pre-decided scale that varies based on the difficulty of moves (and model year of Chevy, I believe). However, the athletes aren’t really judged on how well they perform—instead they start with a given score based on the difficulty of what they plan to do, and the judges take points away every time they mess up.

Still with me? Fantastic.

During the competition in this year’s Olympics a South Korean gymnast, Yang Tae-Young, was given the incorrect starting score for his performance of his raised-army-surplus-stretcher-with-no-canvas event (they call them “parallel bars”). As a result, his score was .1 below what he would have deserved if they had gotten it right. When it was all said and done, American Paul Hamm earned the most points (or relatively lost the least, sort of), and Young ended in third with the dirty, dirty bronze. The difference of their scores was .049.

This is where the controversy explodes. Based on popular opinion, Young should have won the gold and Hamm the silver, while the official silver medal winner would slide down to the bronze. Unfortunately for this case, the official ruling states that the judges’ decisions are final and that once a medal is awarded it cannot be taken back. Okay, I don’t know that for sure, but every news site and station seems to take it for granted, so I will as well. There have been a ton of proposed solutions, but the only solution the people in charge will accept at this point is for Hamm to give up his gold.

This next part is my explanation for why I feel Hamm should not return the gold.

Hamm won the gold medal. He began his last routine with a goal in sight for the gold, so when he achieved it he deserved the gold. Although I can understand the argument that Hamm would have come in second if the Young mistake were not made, I don’t think it should be accepted as a given.

Let’s switch things up a little and put the same situation in basketball terms. Pretend you’re on a team that’s losing by one point with three seconds left. The team strategy is pretty straightforward: you do your best to land whatever basket you can get. In fact, the easier the basket, the better. After all, you only need to win, and it doesn’t matter by how much. Suppose you get the ball and put up your best 2-point lay-up and it goes in—hooray! You’ve just won the gold medal by one point. Now, suppose that two hours later the referees are reviewing the game and realize that the 3-point lines painted on the court are twelve inches too far. When recalculating the shots, the referees come to the realization that your opponents would have had two 2-point shots really count as 3-point shots, assuming the people responsible for the lines hadn’t screwed up. As a result they determine that you really should have lost by one point. Is this guaranteed to be true? Absolutely not! Had the score been different in the least, you would have played differently. Assuming everything else played out in the exact same way, your team would have had to go for 3 in the last few seconds just to tie, so there’s no way you would have gone for the lay-up—unless you knew you’d be fouled. Had that butterfly not flapped its wings, the tornado could have been prevented altogether.

Now, how does this relate to gymnastics? Although competition in gymnastics isn’t direct in the same way, there is a very real level of competition when it comes to selecting the difficulty of routines and even more impact in the performance of athletes themselves. Sure, there’s no way to guarantee Hamm would have performed better if he had a higher score to beat—but assuming he wouldn’t isn’t guaranteed either. After all, he had a score to beat and he did it. Who’s to say he wouldn’t have nailed the 3-pointer from half court if he had to?

This next part is my explanation for why I feel Hamm should return the gold.

Regardless of whether or not he deserved to win gold, popular opinion seems to be growing in favor of Hamm returning the medal. In fact, there is a good chance that he will never be given the true respect an Olympic gold winner deserves from the world. Giving up the gold medal may be the only way he can get that respect, although it will be at the expense of long-term glory. Although I don’t have intimate knowledge of his situation, I’d like to believe any potential endorsements he’s lined up for would not be withdrawn by his honorable abdication of the gold under such circumstances—especially considering that he is one of the few main players in this story who have done nothing wrong. Playing the innocent, honorable victim may be the right thing for his career after gymnastics (as if I had a clue here). For a man with true personal and professional self-respect, giving up the gold medal should mean little. He knows he won it, and anyone who really matters to him should know the same.

Paul Hamm has the opportunity to be the brightest American star in the world’s eye, especially in light of the lowlights of these games from countries around the world:
- Banned drug use (nine athletes banned so far): http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5837305/
- Illegal tactics such as the Kitajima dolphin kick—whatever the hell that means—along with the expected whining (which is actually sort of legit here): http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5746636/
- Non-countrymen-stocked teams such as the Greek baseball team of mostly Americans: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5774074/
- Whining from Russian female gymnast Svetlana Khorkina about scores being pre-decided in favor of Americans: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5788468/
- Hundreds of other public and private issues

At the end of the day, the decision of what to do with the gold medal is Paul’s. I didn’t watch his event. I don’t care about gymnastics. I’m used to people hating Americans for much more valid reasons. I probably wouldn’t even know about this if there was an English non-news television channel in Beijing (where I was all last week). After a few weeks, this topic will never again arise outside Olympic or gymnastic circles. I guess I don’t have a really good reason to care about what he even does.

And I really don’t.

Comments

Bruce Williams [MSFT] said:

This kind of problem has been solved before, hasn't it? You give them both gold; you don't take anything away from anyone.
# August 27, 2004 12:21 PM

Jeff said:

Oh yes...remember all this....http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/15/oly.skate.row/ just 2 years ago?

I know this is easy to say since I haven't worked x hours a day for y years to end up in Hamm's situation but I don't think I could be happy with myself keeping the gold knowing if things had gone as they should I wouldn't have won it. Give it up and be a man....oh wait this is gymnastics.....yeah....he'll probably keep it and try and scratch the eyes out of anyone that tries to take it.
# August 27, 2004 1:15 PM

Richard Dudley said:

You missed one thing, and NBC detailed this during the men's individual rounds. On the parallel bars, you are only allowed three "hold" moves. The South Korean silver medalist clearly did four (they showed this in slow mo with the commentators pointing out the moves), which is something like two-tenths point deduction. Given how close the competition was, to go back and adjust scoring properly, Hamm still would have gold, the bronze medalist would have silver, and #4 would have bronze. The silver medalist would not have medaled with that deduction, even if the judges started with 10.0 difficulty. This may be part of the reason why the South Koreans aren't making a big deal out the issue.
# August 27, 2004 1:40 PM

Kevin Dente said:

The flip side of this is that when reviewing the tapes, the commentators spotted a move that should have resulted in an extra .1 duduction from the Korean. In that case, the errors cancel, and Hamm still wins gold.
# August 27, 2004 1:42 PM

AEB said:

Why I think Hamm should not give it back...

http://www.ksdk.com/sports/sports_article.aspx?storyid=65643

Avery claims the Korean should have been deducted 0.2 points for four holds on the bar, which would have put him in third even with a 10.0 start value. "Judges are going to miss things," U.S. coach Miles Avery said. "Yeah, they made a bad call. He should have started with a 10.0." But, Avery added, the judges "made another mistake when they missed (Yang) having four holds" on the bar, which carries a 0.2-point deduction.
# August 27, 2004 1:52 PM

Dave said:

Paul Hamm should be allowed to keep it.

As the rules state, the judges decisions are final and once the competition is over, that's it. Otherwise, if they're going to go back and review things days later for errors in judging, they need to do it for everyone to be fair.

In the individual competitions, Paul Hamm performed better than the Korean. The Korean had a chance to show how good he was and choked. Paul Hamm had to deal with the crowd booing the judges for their terrible scoring of Russian gymnast Alexei Nemov and still came away with a medal.

Perhaps next Olympics they just need better judges.

# August 27, 2004 2:32 PM

Phillip said:

>> Although I can understand the argument that Hamm would have come in second if the Young mistake were not made, I don’t think it should be accepted as a given.

Except it is a given. The error was not in the judging of the events. If the judging (subjective) part stays the same but the correct numbers were used (non-subjective) the South Korean would have won.
It was an error in the non-subjective paper work of the event, that the South Korean did not do but should have validated earlier.

By the scores the South Korean won the event. By a paper work error the American was handed the medal.

I am ashamed that an American would refuse to give back something he did not earn. It is becoming more of an American way of life, if I want it then it doesn't matter if I earned it or not. All I have to do is find a way to get it.

Hamm put on a fantastic performance. He should be proud of what he did. But instead he shows how the American way no longer has anything to do with what is right.
# August 27, 2004 4:11 PM

Steve Hiner said:

I have a friend with an interesting perspective on this issue. She's an American that's been living in Korea for the last 4 or 5 years.

It is her opinion that if the non-complaining Korean athelete had won gold, Hamm had won silver and the complaining Korean had won bronze the Koreans would be happy.

The reason she thinks this is because the Silver winning Korean is older than the one that won bronze. Since their society is highly sensitive to giving honor to elders they wouldn't dream of fighting to get a younger athelete bumped up over his elder. The only reason they want to do it this time is because it would enable them to beat the American.

Maybe this is totally irrelevant but I thought it was an interesting perspective. They are more concerned with getting the gold for the country than they are in righting a wrong.

Presently I don't have a whole lot of opinion on the issue. Certainly it would be a bummer for Hamm to lose the medal but it's also a bummer for the Korean to not get what he believes he deserves. Maybe giving them both a gold is the answer.

I think the female Russian hurdler has a bigger complaint since she was knocked out of the race by another competitor. If we're going to right all these wrongs they need to run that race again too.
# August 27, 2004 8:27 PM

Jason said:

Philip, did you read any of the previous posts, or did you just fire off your opinion without regard to all the facts? Clearly, there were at least two errors in the judging, but all told, the ones in the Korean's favor and against when combined would have left him in 3rd (or possibly 4th). Why does it matter that one was subjective and one wasn't? And what about the fact that changing the score could have changed the rest of the outcome? Perhaps the judges decided Hamm should win and gave him the score to do so, and would have regardless of whether the South Korean got another .1.

How does the fact that the starting score error _could have_ been corrected with the correct paperwork but the missed deduction for the four holds couldn't have been in any way shape or form mean that Hamm didn't 'earn' his gold? I call that justice. And the Korean's complete self-destruction on the high bar in the apparatus competition, I call 'the bar never lies'.

Oh, and Hamm not giving it back somehow means that the American way no longer has anything to do with what is right? Get a clue.
# August 28, 2004 2:05 AM

LEVE said:

I think PAul has to return gold medal and ALL his medals too. He knows, that he won. We know too.
# August 29, 2004 9:32 AM

Elise Luong said:

Paul Hamm won the gold medal for sure. The case is not that complicated, in fact, it is quite simple. I don't know why the public has such a hard time to understand that. It doesn't matter from which angle you look at, Paul Hamm is an All-Around Olympic Champion (AAOC). Here are why:

1. Before the controversy started, Paul placed first.

2. After the controversy, after reviewing the tape of the Korean's performance, Paul still placed first because the 0.2 points deduction the judges missed on the Korean's routine. Based only on this account, the Korean would have to lose his bronze medal, and placed no higher than fourth (or possibly lower). If I were Yang Tae-Young, I would keep my mouth shut and be happy with the bronze.

3. The term gymnastics is a general term, the one we are talking about is actually called Artistic Gymnastics. The athletes were judged not only on the level of difficult skills they performed, but also judged on how well (i.e. how easy, how effortless, or how pretty) they performed the skills. This is when the subjective part of the judging steps in. When do a side-by-side comparison on both Paul and Yang's routines. Overall, Paul's are more pleasant to look at.

4. Now, the following discussion is very subjective, but believe me, the judges had thought about it and slept about it before the season started. Suppose putting one gold medal on Yang, and one on Paul, and have them stand side by side for photo shoot, the majority the photographers will agree on that the gold medal looks better on Paul than on Yang.

5. During the individual high bar final, the momentum was really favor the Korean while completely disfavor Paul, and yet Paul was able to deliver a phenomenal performance while Yang messed up his badly. This already tell you who deserve the All-Around Olympic Champion Title.

American is not a whimp, we don't give up any medal just because of someone else is complaining. The fact is the fact, if Yang still think he deserves the 0.1 points the judges owed to him, he then also deserves the 0.2 points the judges forgot to deduct.

In the end, Yang Tae-Young is the one ought to give up his bronze medal and accept the fourth finish placement.

# August 29, 2004 2:10 PM

Amanda said:

This is a comment for Phillip regarding his statement "It was an error in the non-subjective paper work of the event, that the South Korean did not do but should have validated earlier."

Read up on your gymnastics a little more. The start value IS subjective. It's actually determined after an athlete has completed his routine in case it varies greatly from what his routine was supposed to be.

Why everyone is mistakenly taking it for a "given" is because his routine did not greatly vary from the same routine in the preliminaries, which had a 10.0 start value. However, during the competition, the 2 judges saw something that at the time made them both agree the start value was a 9.9 (hence the head judge not stepping in to overrule them).

People are not doing their research before stating their facts. This is a fairly complicated issue, but I see people dumbing it down to simple mathematical accounting errors, when that is not an accurate situation.
# August 29, 2004 2:29 PM

steve said:

there were some other athletes who were given incorrectly lower starting values. this happens at every olympics. should we review every tape at every past and present olympics event to make sure the starting values and deductions were correct or should we just do it to paul hamm?
# August 29, 2004 5:03 PM

Elise Luong said:

Answer to Steve's question:

For judging training purpose, it is necessary to randomly review tapes from past and present major competitions (not just the olympics, but world championships as well) to see how the judges performed so that improvements can be made for future events, because accurate judging is so important especially in events that can change people's life. However, the information gained from reviewing such tapes are not for changing ranks and should be kept confidential. Whatever done is done, the athletes should not be responsible for anything. This is to say that the judging committees do not need to screw up more innocent lives. I am not saying this to protect Paul Hamm, luckily, after reviewing the Korean's tape, Hamm is still placed first.
# August 29, 2004 7:46 PM

steve said:

Thanks for your response!

One more question, if you would'nt mind. I understand that the starting value could have been appealed but the mandatory deduction couldn't have been. If it's true that it takes a video review to assess that the starting value is correct, is it also the case that using video review is not allowed. I quess what I'm wondering, is how it would have played out, had the korean team filed a protest at the time of the event as required. Thanks very much!
# August 30, 2004 3:34 PM

Tracy said:

It's this simple. Paul can either spend the rest of his life answering this question in EVERY interview he does, with an asterisk by his name in the record books (ask the Marris family how that felt), or he could do the right thing and exchange his medal for the one he TRULY EARNED and endear himself to the ENTIRE world forever. Someone needs to explain this to him. I too am ashamed that an American athlete would keep something that did not belong to him. This was not resultant of subjective judging, but a MATH ERROR. If it were the US on the loosing end of that stick...boy we'd all be hearing about it!
# August 31, 2004 8:26 AM

whey said:

Tracy, he should exchange his gold medal for a gold medal? I actually admire him much more for sticking to his guns by keeping his gold medal (which he TRULY EARNED) against all nay-sayers who have now been proven wrong.

And yes, it was a subjective judging error, NOT a math error. And the US was on the losing end of the stick -- heard of the illegal dolphin kick? But the medals were awarded, and the Japanese swimmer (who I was rooting for) came back the next day to win a second gold medal to prove he is an Olympic Champion.

Just like Paul Hamm is.
# August 31, 2004 11:35 AM

Chris said:

hey guys I'm not even going to get into the whole korean guy vs american guy debate, but Paul Hamm should have not won that medal regardless of the .1 point. Why? during his vault, the guy completely failed the event and fell on his ass and had to be stopped by a judge. I believe the event was called "all-around" and Paul clearly did not pass all events. The guy FAILED an event. But what was his score? 9.12 or some sort I believe. Later on in the event, the chinese guy was doing the high bars (i think thats what its called) and he slipped once but didn't fall on his ass and slide all the way to the judge's table like Paul did. I'm not an expert in any sense on how the points are handed out, but the Chinese guy got like an 8.85 or something really close to that. OUTRAGEOUS! Paul completely fails his event and he gets higher score than the Chinese who made a similar slip-up on a different event? What I'm trying to say is, Paul Hamm doesnt deserve a medal because HE FAILED AN EVENT ON AN ALL-AROUND COMPETITION. I don't see how someone who totally wiped out on a vault can be declared the best all around gymnast.
# August 31, 2004 12:29 PM

essnse@aol.com said:

Yang Tae made a mandatory 0.2 deduction mistake during his routine that was NOT deducted from his score. So Hamm would have won anyway. Yet he is being hung out to dry by just about everyone - including being taken off the Wheaties box! General Mills should be boycotted. Hamm has done nothing to deserve what is happening here.
# August 31, 2004 4:02 PM

Shrak said:

Um, you're forgetting one big part of the controversy: Young took an extra stop in his Parallel Bar routine, which was SUPPOSED to incur a 2-tenth deduction but the judges didn't do it for some reason. So, if you take the extra 2 tenths he should have gotten off from the the extra tenth he SHOULD have gotten added to his start value, you end up with -1 tenth. Paul Hamm's still in the lead and now Young's probably not even medal worthy. So Young got a break and people are chewing Paul Hamm out. That doesn't make sense, and neither how the judging can be so OBVIOUSLY f*cked up. If you watched both the Rings and High Bar fanals, they also gave the gold to the wrong people there.
# August 31, 2004 5:10 PM

Jim said:

A gymnast is evaluated on a myriad of skills, including presentation elements (piked, hollow, bent knees, open legs, not holding skill, holding skill too long, connecting skills, virtuosity, etc.). Then, add the bonus (or subtract the bonus, if not made) and subtract the deductions to get the individual apparatus score (inclusive of start value). All of the gymnasts in the All-Around competition were evaluated by the SAME JUDGES, so there was consistency in scoring. There is (hopefully) no collusion or bias going on among the judges. The Korean coaches had an opportunity to submit a formal complaint (regarding the start value) after the Korean gymnast's P-Bar routine ended and before the next competitor started his routine on this apparatus. This is in the FIG rule book and the Code of Points. If you countermand this rule, then you might as well go all the way and review all of of the gymnasts routines, in all the apparatus events, in slow motion, and determine the event winners. Paul Hamm is a good kid. I wish people would quit blaming him for this controversy. He is not responsible for the start value error from the FIG judges on the P-Bars. Judging errors will happen. It is unfortunate, but the world is not perfect. And, if anyone thinks judging a gymnastics meet is easy, then think again. I have three kids in optional/elite level gymnastics and I have seen the scoring requirements/criteria that are used. It makes Differential Calculas look like "counting to your tens on your fingers." If you want a controversy to talk about, then wait four years when the Olympics will be held in China, and their wonderful record on human rights is up for public debate. Will the Chinese army roll out the tanks again to crush Chinese demonstrators?
# August 31, 2004 6:05 PM

Nancy said:

Paul Hamm is an athletic hero. While being subjected to unbelievable pressure he has remained clearheaded, calm, and measured in his response to nasty press and endless questioning. Give this guy a break. He delivered an exceptional performance in the all-around and should keep the medal. Paul, if you read this, DON'T GIVE UP!!
# August 31, 2004 6:57 PM

Alex from Australia said:

Hi All, I stumbled across this by accident.
My thoughts to everyone posting here...

GET OVER IT !!!

Its not the end of the world if you give back a medal. No matter what he (HAMM) does he will always be doubted. better to leave the doubt behind and get on with life.
Go out, get a bear and get laid !
# September 1, 2004 9:06 AM

Byron said:

Its Typical American Spin , to make excuses on why Paul should keep the Gold. All of which is Bull. had the Roles been reversed the US would have been raising Holy Hell to get the Mistake corrected. Bottom line the Judges made a Mistake , yes,, but the Mistake is in Plain site Black and white,, and nothing to do with what the Young or Hamm did or didnt do on the Field of Play. Young Won,, and the IOC is showing that it is Afraid of the US, so is not willing to correct the problem. Had it been a Greek or any other Western countryman, the problem would have been corrected. "Spirit of the Games", what a Joke phrase that is. I my self can not see how paul Hamm, USA Gymnastics , the USOC, could ever put Paul Hamm out on tour and have him try to project fair play. Paul Hamm and all those organization that back him, Lack any Morals and in the Long Run, the USA will pay the price at future events.
# September 2, 2004 3:06 AM

Emma said:

I dont think that the reason people are saying that Hamm deserved it is because they just want American's to win! OK I'm not going to go through the whole thing again, because I'm sure everyone knows the story by now, but Hamm deserved the gold medel, and should not give it up. If you are going to use the tapes as proof that Hamm should not have won the gold, then you can use them as proof that the manditory two tenths deduction was not taken! That is exactly why the judges do not use video tapes after the performance! The judges are human, not some robot who finds every single possible little flaw in the routines! If they were to use the video tapes weeks after the competition for all of the athletes, then the standings would totally change. But that is not how gymnastics works. I have watched all of the gymnastics competitions, and you can see in the qualifying rounds, and the team final that Paul Hamm is the best gymnast in the world!

Now, for all you people saying he should give his medal up, i just want to ask you a question. If you were a young gymnast, and you had just won your first individual medal (and it was a GOLD!), would you really give it up just because lots of people think that your country cheats in all things? America is a strong country, and it makes me so upset that people would actually say that just because we have amazing athletes, that the judges favor them and that we cheated!!! Hamm does not have a lack of morals or anything! He knows that he rightfully won that medal and so do I! And Byron, what makes you so smart that you know what the IOC is thinking??? The IOC could definatly over-rule anything any country has to say if they think it is right!!!

OK you know what? this stupid controversy has gone on long enough! Hamm deserves the medal, and there is freakin proof that says so!!! So if you dont believe the truth than you can go complain to some higher power, but know that you are wrong.
# September 3, 2004 10:13 AM

Vassar said:

Everyone is talking about the South Korean's performance on tape and a deduction that should have taken place. Did anybody look at Paul Hamm's performance on tape and try to examine it shot-by-shot? That should only be fair, isn't it?
# September 4, 2004 3:42 AM

Benedict said:

The essential question that people should be asking is, 'if this happened to my kid at his baseball game, what would I ask him to do?' First put your kid in Hamm's position. Then in the South Korean's shoes.
# September 4, 2004 3:43 AM

Mark said:

Hamm should have made himself immortal, and done the right thing giving the medal up for the absolute "clerical" error.

Not a single person talked about this world being a lot more dangerous, and this actually plays a role in that. If even only a small amount, can enrage people more, and who will pay the price, our soldiers, economy??

Way to go Paul, US All Around Gold Medalist*

Oh, and folks, you can write Paul directly at http://www.hammtwins.com/address.html.
# September 5, 2004 2:51 PM

kelly said:

I am really tired of hearing how Paul Hamm did not do anything wrong and that he should keep his gold medal because he played by the rule. Well, the judges admitted they made a mistake and FIG told the whole world very clearly in a letter that the true winner is Yang. So what is the big deal trying to keep the gold medal that no longer holds its true value???

Hold on to that gold medal Paul, and sleep with it if you have to but really...what's the point? The fact that the Wheaties did not want you, has nothing to do with your sqeaky voice but has everything to do with your lack of integrity and sportsmanship.

Paul Hamm is a great athlete for sure but the way he handled this situation definitely shows his immaturity. I would not want my sons looking up to somebody like him. On that note, I am really glad I don't have to see his face on the Wheaties box.
# September 6, 2004 11:19 AM

Crystal said:

Ok. What happens if Paul does give up his gold medal to the Korean? Does he just swap with him for his bronze? No, because he finished 2nd if we look at just changing the start value of the Korean. So now we have created a contrevery in the silver medal spot. Does the Korean who earned the silver now give up his to Paul? The answer to that I would be willing to bet is a big NO! Paul will have to settle for nothing. He does not deserve that!!!

He also does not deserve to have the weight of Amerca's morality put on his shoulders. He is a young man who has worked his whole life for that one night of competition. On his road to the Olympics I'm sure he has been on the positive and the negative side of the judges subjectivity too many times to count. He is used to this and knows the rules of what constitutes a win, the judges scores. That night, the judges scored him the gold medalists(I would have too, I watched the whole thing as I have the past 4 Olympics, he WAS better!). They have the rules in place because it is an artistice sport mixed with fundamental judging and you could go back after every competition and argue some part of it or another for years. The Koreans had a chance to make their point well within those rules, but they did not. We are expecting an American to take the moral high road and give up his gold while we overlook the fact that the Koreans are breaking the rules.


# September 12, 2004 1:21 PM

Casyle said:

Paul Hamm deserved the medal, simple as that.

Change the scores, fairly, and Yang STILL loses. Ya can't do that though, either way, because NOBODY knows how Hamm would have performed in his final routine with the changed scores, good or bad. And nobody knows how Yang would have scored if he were down more.

I find this amazing. I feel very sorry for poor Hamm. He did his best and won the gold. Yet some people continue to insist on a ridiculously simple idea that you can just change a score after the competition is over. *Shakes his head in disbelief*

# September 12, 2004 7:21 PM

Tam Nguyen said:

There are 2 sides.

One who believed Paul won GOLD obviously know gymnastic

One who did not believe Paul didn't win obviously don't know gymnastic.

Sp what is the point to continue this discussion.

Go do something for your country
# September 16, 2004 10:39 AM

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