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WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?

Friday, Microsoft brought the news that WinFS, the highly anticipated new filesystem annex object store, is delayed again. It is now said they hope to release a test version in late 2006 and it will not be present in Longhorn server as well.

If WinFS isn't ready for the Longhorn server release in 2007, something serious is holding it back. WinFS is already in development for a long time, and 2007 is more than 2 years away. That's an awful lot of time for a filesystem. When I read articles like the one on news.com, I instantly get al kinds of questions in my head. One I got from reading this particular article was : "Is this the same company that wrote SqlServer 7 almost from scratch in 4 years that is now incapable of producing a filesystem within twice that much time?". Reality gives the answer: yes, apparently it is the same company.

My somewhat paranoid mind however refuses to accept the spin Windows Server Chief Bob Muglia gives to the fact that WinFS will not show up for a long period of time. I mean, somewhere on this planet a guy named Hans Reiser wrote with just a couple of people the Reiser4 filesystem, which sports a large amount of complex functionality and is one of the fastest and most secure filesystems known today. (Read more about ReiserFS by clicking here). How could mr. Reiser succeed while Microsoft with all their power failed? A couple of reasons pop up: 1) Reiser4's functionality is small compared to what WinFS will do. 2) Microsoft hired the wrong people. 3) Microsoft has given WinFS a low priority.

According to what mr. Muglia said, it's clearly option 1. Is this really true? For what we've seen from WinFS so far, I can only conclude: no, it's not. Muglia said:

"This isn't a relational database, this is a brand-new data model, and it satisfies a whole class of applications that frankly have been unsatisfied from a data model perspective since the beginning of history. We've been working on things like this for a long time."

A brand new data-model... Now, I'm not a manager, so I don't know the jargon managers tend to use, but in the world where I live in, the professional software engineering world, a 'brand new data-model' doesn't exist. A couple of decades now a lot of very bright people are doing research on different data-models, database formats and how to handle data. But frankly, the last decade, it's more about the handling of the data than the datastore itself, basicly because everything to be said about storing data has already been said.

So it's all about the handling of the data, i.e.: creating information from structured or unstructured data. Let me dig up an old slashdot posting I made some time ago:click here. The only way WinFS can be something 'brand new' if it's something like that: files are views on data objects in a datastore. Is this something that's new or hard to do? Well... no. You see, Windows works, as every other good OS does, with a virtual filesystem. This means that what the OS API sees as the filesystem is actually a virtualized view on all filesystems mounted. This means that if you want to plug-in a datastore as a filesystem, all you have to do is write a filesystem driver for the virtual filesystem and applications can use your datastore as a filesystem. With an object store at the filesystem core, the virtual filesystem should be extended to offer access to that store as well: not only via the concept of a file, but also via the concept of an 'object'. But the bottom line is: a 'file' is just a view provided by a driver, how it's stored internally is not important, that's the job of the driver and datastore (be it NTFS, FAT32 or SqlServer).

The real problem is in the applications: if they save a file which is actually a collection of objects, and the file arrives as one big object at the gates of the filesystem driver, it can't chop it up in a clever way so it can re-use the individual objects. But this is not the problem of the WinFS team, but the problem of the people writing applications. In other words: deliver the filesystem first, then help application developers migrate their applications to the new filesystem format. This can never be the cause of the delay, as the more you delay the filesystem, the more time it will take to make people convert their application structures to the new filesystem API.

Let me get back to my original question: How could mr. Reiser succeed while Microsoft with all their power failed? With all due respect, but I simply don't buy reason 1) that it is so incredibly complex that it is so incredibly hard to do that it takes such a long time (we're talking 8-10 years) to create this filesystem called WinFS. I also don't think Microsoft hired the wrong people. So we arrive at reason 3: Microsoft has given WinFS a low priority. I actually think, but I'm speculating here, this can be close to the truth. The reason why I think this, is fairly simple: Microsoft is a demand-driven company. It has to make money, so it delivers what people want. A simple, yet, effective strategy, used by a lot of companies around the world.

Unless you've lived under a rock in the last couple of months, it's pretty obvious what the next big thing will be on the desktop: search. Everyone who has seen the Steve Jobs video where he demos the desktop search power of MacOS X 'Tiger', knows it: this will be huge, if not the next big thing which makes an OS a real OS instead of a toy. "At least on the desktop", you say? No, it goes far beyond the desktop. People in corporate networks see the part of the network they're allowed to see as part of their desktop. So a search for some data based on some criteria might look like it's a desktop search but might turn out into a network wide search. The company which can bring that power to the desktop is king.

Microsoft has a problem though: time, or better: Time to Market. It works against them: Google, Yahoo and others have already announced their desktop search engines which will deliver to the Windows desktop what mr. Jobs showed for MacOS X. But not in 2006 or 2007, no, it will be next year, or even: today. So what do you do when you're Microsoft? You continue with this huge project that will deliver a big leap forward in how we work with data, but it will take a couple of years to complete, or you look out (pun intended) your window and buy a small company with a clever guy who can deliver what your customers want on time and what will be delivered is good enough for these customers? The theoretical academic will say: "Go for the huge project!", but a person who knows how business works will say: "Go for the clever guy in the small company!". So Microsoft bought Lookout, and desktop search will come to you in Longhorn client, and because WinFS is delayed, probably also in a server version in Longhorn server (but that's speculation from my part).

In software engineering a famous saying goes: "Nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution.". The temporary solution here is the desktop search functionality that will be included in Longhorn. It's temporary because WinFS will show up eventually in the future, but... will it? Would you invest a lot of money in developing WinFS if you had a temporary solution that is good enough for your customers? Would you invest a lot of money in developing WinFS so that it can replace MS Access and SqlServer desktop edition? Just to replace a search functionality (remember, the user doesn't care how it works) that is good enough, i.e.: it doesn't make a difference in usability?

You do the math.

Published Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:47 PM by FransBouma

Comments

# WinFS Slips Again@ Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:13 AM

Seen on Frans Bouma's blog, the news that WinFS has slipped yet again. Is WinFS just a huge blackhole project? Who is the Captain Ahad driving this project on?...

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# WinFS is delayed yet again.@ Sunday, December 12, 2004 6:18 AM

WinFS is delayed yet again.

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# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Sunday, December 12, 2004 8:26 AM

You're probably right, but I've always had a slightly different impression of what MS wants to do with WinFS -- of course it might be the wrong impression. I thought they were not just wanting to move the "file" to the relational datastore, but also have a significant amount of the "file" schemas to be an integral part of WinFS. One of the examples I've seen, although again maybe I misunderstood, was that whether you use Outlook or Outlook Express or some non-MS client, all of these apps would work with the same schemas for contacts, calendar, email, etc. Similary for all the imaging applications, and I assume most other such common apps. These standard schemas would then make search, the very thing you state is what's important right now, much more workable!

OK, so that's what I've thought WinFS was supposed to be. That doesn't seem trivial to me, although I think the difficulties would be much more on the schema design side than the technical side, as you have rightfully noted. What troubles me, if my understanding is anywhere close to correct, is that I don't want MS doing anything like this at all! They may know what's needed for Outlook and Outlook Express, but they have no idea what my custom apps need, so are they going to make this open enough to be usable for everyone? And do I really want my information stored in such a standard schema anyhow, since it seems that will just make it easier for other rogue apps to get to all my valuable data?

So I think that either WinFS should be doable and MS is just screwing up again, or they are going for something much more -- something that may make things far easier -- for both legit uses and other rogue uses too!

Paul Wilson

# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:39 AM

It's a little misleading to think that Microsoft won't produce a desktop search product without WinFS. It seems Microsoft will be coming out with a Beta for MSN Desktop Search soon (maybe Monday, according to this article: http://blogs.msdn.com/msnsearch/archive/2004/12/10/279709.aspx).

Like Paul Wilson I don't think search is the goal of WinFS.

Darrell

# WinFS delayed again@ Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:30 PM

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# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:21 PM

Frans: yeah, come back on Monday. And watch the videos on Channel 9. You'll see how a team shipped a really cool new product in only seven months.

Robert Scoble

# WinFS delayed@ Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:55 PM

WinFS delayed

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# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Sunday, December 12, 2004 5:25 PM

WinFS has little [if anything] to do with desktop search. I've written about this in the past at http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/PermaLink.aspx?guid=bfc38a8a-41e4-4303-b37f-760fb096d0f0 and http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/PermaLink.aspx?guid=20c54323-3236-44e9-8095-87b75a71ed8d

Dare Obasanjo

# WinFS Delayed Again@ Sunday, December 12, 2004 6:57 PM

Frans Bouma blogs about the MS announcement to delay WinFS yet again until at least late 2006 - and he isn't very happy about it....

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# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:37 PM

Desktop Search would be easier with WinFS but today's desktop search products (like my fave, the incredible and free Copernic Desktop Search) use an index instead. WinFS was my favorite "pillar" of Longhorn but I think MS got a lot of wild ideas and tried to incorporate them all and ended up with something they just couldn't handle. It is very unfortunate.

I hope the lack of ObjectSpaces means more people will try out LLBLGen Pro.

Shannon J Hager

# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Sunday, December 12, 2004 8:09 PM


Paul, I doubt they are working on standard schemas, because my understanding is that there is no such thing as a standard schema. Take something as common as an Person. How can you define that type without any context? Two applications can view what a Person is very differently.

I think the hard part that Microsoft is trying to solve is unifying the different data-formats. Let's examining a few for a moment: relational sets, objects, XML, LDAP directory, registry, file systems. These are all examples of structured data. Which means you can define their structure with schemas. But the rules for each data-format are a little different, in some cases drastically different (object/relational might be the two formats with the most differences). Now why do we have all of these different formats? Well, each has its own unique advantages. XML is verbrose and transparent. LDAP is perfect for apps that need to read hierarchical data quickly and rarely need to write it. Relational sets are perfect for transactions and indexing very large data. Objects do not persist but are the ideal in-memory format for application logic.

Anyway, I believe Microsoft is trying to get at the heart of what a structured data-model is. Because you could have an API that lets you define schema structures that work in multiple (or all?) data formats.

Either that's what they're developing, or they're trying to reduce our need for so many formats by creating a new best-of-breed format. I'm not sure that's possible. Surely there is no single data-format that could solve all the app needs I've mentioned above.

So to comment on Frans's options. I think its either #1 (its very difficult) or option #4 (its impossible). Certainly its not #3 (they don't care) and I doubt its #2 (they suck).

Gabe Halsmer

# It's happened before...@ Monday, December 13, 2004 1:39 AM

Anyone remeber the talk about this new object-oriented desktop for Windows NT that was going to make IBM's object-oriented desktop for OS/2 look sick? Was that going to come out in Cairo? I forget, I'm pretty codename-deaf to begin with, all I remember is that this was the coming thing, and whatever happened to Windows 95/98 it was just a stopgap.

Remember that what we got in NT4 was the Windows 95 desktop. It even had 16-bit code back in its hindbrain, like some digital r-complex left over from the precambrian. And that's what we still have on the desktop... the nifty new object-oriented desktop got shuffled off to the same place Xenix and Microsoft Bob ended up.

Peter da Silva

# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Monday, December 13, 2004 1:42 AM

Even if Desktop Search was a priority I don't think a company with 10,000 developers don't have enough people left to continue on WinFS. However your article and reasoning is very clear and pleasant to read. Its still possible thats its just politics. Abandening development on IE as soon as competition was killed has proved that many MS managers doesn't really have genuine instrest in improving products unless there is a competitive pressure from up and which might potentially hurt their ability to draw profit charts for their divisions at theie year end meetings. However I'm guessing that unlike IE team which was over 1000 people, a really expensive monster to keep alive, the WinFS team is really small. I don't think maintaining it will bring down profit levels of core Windows division significantly and it would be hard to drop it anyway when most other team managers would think this as an important piece. So I would cut out reason #3. So with best guesses, probability is that the WinFS team had a major screw up or the old Windows file system veterans just came to that "age" where everything looks a lot longer ;)

Shital Shah

# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Monday, December 13, 2004 4:04 AM

Dare: You say: "At its core, WinFS was about storing strongly typed objects in the file system instead of opaque blobs of bits. The purpose of doing this was to make accessing and manipulating the content and metadata of these files simpler and more consistent." (in one of the links you provided). I don't think this is true. The reason for this is that what you describe is exactly why object databases failed: data is just data, it depends on the CONTEXT what the meaning of it is. So storing it in a strongly typed way is ok, as long as the strong type is not too stong, i.e. it has to describe the data to retrieve the data, not the meaning of the data.

Let's say you're right. Why would WinFS be necessary? Would all of a sudden developers drop support for oracle, sql server and friends and store their data in WinFS? I hope not. WinFS is 'a' (not the) way to expose data of an app to a generic interface, f.e. the shell search functionality, so the user can find data back (or better: make information out of data, by specifying a query and data matching the query becomes information in the context of the query. This is fundamental. ) and open the app to grab the data in context. Or do you think that when outlook 2009 stores the contact information in WinFS, you can use it from a 3rd party app? You still need office/outlook.

Desktop search engines do the same: they index data, have a query interface and the user can find data back, open the app to use the data in context. (data found in a PDF can only be utilized if the pdf is read/opened)

So I absolutely disagree with your on the fact taht WinFS is not about search. Its sole purpose is to provide search to the desktop, by providing a platform for application developers to make searching any type of data very easy.

Or are you thinking it is for application developers so they don't have to deal with databases anymore, just store objects in the 'store' ? That would be a big problem, because it would cut into their sqlserver sales on one side and it would provide a problem to the developer on the other side: when to move from filesystem object store to a database because the store gets too big? And as if there are no solutions to using data as objects today ;)

Frans Bouma

# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Monday, December 13, 2004 5:04 AM

I mostly agree, it´s a political decision. But partly I also think, it has to do with the vision behind WinFS: Microsoft has/had too big a vision of what it wanted to accomplish. It wants to make everybody happy, to finally provide a silver bullet for all(?)/most data access problems, to close the impedance mismatch chasm between OO and relation world. And I guess, this task is (currently) too large even for Microsoft - or maybe especially for Microsoft since they need to provide backward compatibility with all sorts of stuff.

So my conslusion is: Live in the now! The larger the hype around Longhorn technologies the more I get the feeling I should look at what I´ve got today.
It´s nice to get a glimpse of what the crystal ball shows once in a while. But doing business today, most companies cannot (and should not) focus so much on what possibly might come sometime in the future. Avalon, Indigo, WinFS: Really nice - but not manifest for many, many months. And that means: not relevant for most (not all) developers.

So even though I´m a Microsoft Regional Director for Germany, I shut out most of the noise coming from the hype around Avalon, Indigo and WinFS. The only real and tangible thing, right now, is Whidbey Beta 1. .NET 2.0 and improvements to VB.NET/C# and SQL Server I can already use today and which will be generally available in June 2005 are (somewhat) relevant to my customers and me.

Above that... I look beyond Microsoft. There´s more to care about than Avalon, Indigo and WinFS. What about O/R Mapping for .NET today? What about easier GUI programming today? What about tuple spaces/shared virtual memory for (cross-platform) communication? It´s all here today and needs to be mastered.

Ralf Westphal

# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Monday, December 13, 2004 10:36 AM

Frans, just to add a little more perspective to the ReiserFS comparison, you're correct that ResierFS (on paper) seems to do a small subset of what is envisioned for WinFS. But Hans Reiser himself says...

>>Andrew, we need to compete with WinFS and Dominic Giampaolo's filesystem for Apple, and that means we need to put search engine and database functionality into the filesystem. It takes 11 years of serious research to build a clean storage layer able to handle doing that.
Reiser4 has done that, finally<<

Source: http://kerneltrap.org/node/3736?PHPSESSID=a49c007a131b9d350553581d536d0711

Hmm, 11 years for a FS that does much less than what WinFS is supposed to do, kind of puts things in perspective. Mind you I still think WinFS will never actually ship, I just thought that was an interesting bit of trivia to add to the discussion :-)

Senkwe

# MSN Desktop Search@ Monday, December 13, 2004 11:39 AM

Today Microsoft released a beta version of its MSN Desktop search tool. There is video on Channel 9 about it (note that the video is nearly an hour long - I didn't watch it because I could download it quicker)....

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# Microsoft Doesn't Understand (part 42)@ Monday, December 13, 2004 6:14 PM

A few days ago Frans Bouma asked if the (new?) WinFS delays were politics or incompetency, pointing to ReiserFS version 4 as an example of a fast, meta-data lovin' next generation file system. ReiserFS version 4 has been developed and...

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# Microsoft Desktop Search@ Monday, December 13, 2004 9:05 PM

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# A Microsoft Meme Too Funny Not to Point Too (thanks to Cringely)@ Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:52 AM

Having written numerous blogs on the subject of Microsoft and its difficulties getting products out the door, and listened to related web chatter, i had to call out this dig from Infoworld's Robert X. Cringely column. Last week, Redmond Van...

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# On Microsoft, Software-as-a-Service and Time-to-Market@ Tuesday, December 14, 2004 5:01 AM

My timing with this one is perhaps a bit off, given the news, but one of yesterday's posts from Joe Wilcox reminded me to comment on Scoble's entry here. What's more, my colleague's weighing in on the same theme by...

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# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Wednesday, December 15, 2004 4:00 PM

Winfs is much more than search, but with this delay....i start to think that winfs has the "second system" syndrom. What winfs wants to provide to apps can be done now - it's just much harder to do. IMHO, WinFS has become too complex. In that timeframe they could rewrite NT core, instead they're just creating a tool to solve a problem that maybe it's not so important.

Diego

# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:29 AM

Frans,

I think there are a couple of issues at work here:
1) There is a lot of perfectionism creaping into the WinFS team, it is all or nothing. Why slip WinFS, surely a stripped down feature set would still be useful?
2) The business side of MS has probably quite rightly got the feeling the WinFS technical team is unlikely to ship anytime soon (see 1) and has started to focus on immediate threats like Google.

My reasoning goes like this: I suspect the MS WinFS team is working on a development model that is the exact opposite of XP development, they are trying to resolve every problem they can think of before they need to.

For example do you really need to support Multi Container cascading security updates? Surely this with this idea you introduce a whole heap of GUI paradigm problems, this is probably where they are having trouble, how do you present this stuff to the User?

The idea that things can appear in many places and more dangerously can be modified or (affected by other modifications) that are not immediately obvious is where a heap of problems come from.

I am convinced that they are making it more complicated than it needs to be because they have too many academic brains involved and not enough pragmatists. A pragmatist would question the need for some of this stuff, but it seems this isn't happening, and as a result the whole project slips, instead of release2, because it is very hard and they aren't prepared to compromise at all.

Of course this is all just a guess ;)

Alex James

# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:39 AM

Alex, interesting :). Reading your reasining, I thought... perhaps they're not ABLE to compromise? (due to the fact that IF a compromise is made, the whole idea of having this great new FS is falling apart into an NTFS on steroids...).. time will tell I guess... Fact is that any developer I talked to about this simply can't understand what the fuss is all about with this new filesystem that supposes to solve it all. If technical people aren't convinced, who is?

Frans Bouma

# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Thursday, December 16, 2004 6:13 AM

Frans,

I personally am convinced that WinFS, and even a highly compromised version could be beneficial. I spent 3 years and a lot of my own money attempting to create a relational file system, because I was convinced it could improve user productivity. However, about a year ago I 'GOT' WinFS and immediately recognized that our stuff was missing the schema stuff and while it was still a good idea technically, it was a huge problem to sell, because it is completely conceptual, you have to buy the concept to buy any of my ROI arguments. And as you know some of the smartest people in the IT industry can't agree about the concepts in this stuff, so how could I be expected to get a CIO to buy into my vision?

However I now have a very stripped down WinFS like server for schema objects, that is essentially an ORM (nowhere near as good as yours) with less of an ORM focus but more of a focus on File and Image handling and events in the server for managing metadata promotion and demotion.

I recently put a WebDav front end on this and this provides a very simple but still extremely powerful framework for capturing meta data about files and allowing that meta data to be leveraged by an ObjectPath like search mechanism. Especially with the Microsoft WebDav redirector now allowing WedDav drives to be used like network shares.

Imagine you have a Schema with:

Staff who have Departments and those Departments belong to Companies.

You upload a word document that was authored by "Frans" and sure using Google Desktop search type functionality I can find all documents written by Frans.

But can I find all documents written by people in the Sales department? Not with something like Google.

It is not written in the document anywhere so it can't be indexed.

But with the WinFS schema approach I just replace the string "Frans" with the Staff object and suddenly I have a gateway into the whole business schema. I have something that does this, it is nowhere near as complicated as WinFS etc, but it still offers some compelling benefits.

I am very excited by the possibilities this provides especially now MS seems to be backing away further and further from WinFS.

Would love to talk about this offline if you are interested. Alex at base4 dot net.

Alex James

# Why anyone argues with Frans is beyond me - he's just about always right.@ Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:34 PM

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# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Friday, December 17, 2004 3:03 AM

I don't think WinFS is "about search" more than it simply "enables search". It's MUCH easier to search a relational database than to search a file system. Why? Keyword: Relational. If the data is related in someway, ORGANIZATION (which trumps search in all forms) is what defines the system.

I have a theory and I probably should be slapped for this but I believe WinFS as it is is perfectly fine. I believe that they are simply having a very difficult time introducing it into the Windows code base and have it actually function properly. Much of Longhorn now still has many XP roots and I think Longhorn isn't that "new and improved" to easily just drop in WinFS and have it automagically work.

WinFS as a concept is probably already done but the incredible time consuming process is to make Windows itself work with it. Sure there WERE file system drivers you could just drop in but this is something completely different. Maybe they could have started with a file system driver and built on the existing technology but part of the equation could be that they decided to start from scratch and are realizing that Longhorn isn't quite the total sum of all parts it claimed to be when it was first conceptualized.

Microsoft sacrifices a LOT for backwards compatibility, lets not forget this. Sometimes I question that they sacrifice too much, but they've done a good job about keeping a happy medium. Backwards compatibility may be coming into play here though there's really nothing they could be worrying about with WinFS except maybe MSDE (which they proposed WinFS would do away with completely).

I'm probably completely wrong since I haven't kept up with any of this since I heard about the initial cuts. Also there was a ton of Longhorn talk in blogs around the WinHEC build release but things have severely died down since then so I don't really keep up with it any more. It doesn't mean I can't speculate and form conspiracy theories since I don't particularly work on that team.

Jeremy

# re: WinFS delayed again: corporate politics or incompetency?@ Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:17 PM

A few comments:
- WinFS is about searching, but also about much more. Fast searching on the local pc will be possible without WinFS, look at http://beta.toolbar.msn.com; WinFS wants to give a much better story on the field of linking metadata and maintaining schemas for structured data that can be consumed by a bunch of applications in a unified and uniform way.
- Don't forget WinFS is a layer on top of the physical filesystem, being NTFS. So, in the core, NTFS is doing the physical storage work whileas WinFS provides the logical services.
- The idea of having a database engine on every desk is a huge one and needs to be 'correct' from day one on, otherwise we fall back in compatibility problems later on. On the server level this impact is even bigger, think of porting services to get to use this technology to store and link data (e.g. AD, Exchange, etc). The first step to take over there is to move to a unified storage model first (or as a crucial part in moving to such a model).
- SQL Server is the core engine behind WinFS and it's better to finalize SQL Server 2005 first, offering all the great benefits over there, so that the new core can be used further on.
- Without the story server-side, the client-side would have a low impact (cf. searching and maintaining docs on an intranet).
- Avalon and Indigo will be in Longhorn and these two offer a great new application development model that will enable us to build better, cooler, richer applications faster with a better user experience (cf. browsable applications with XAML etc). Avalon and Indigo will be delivered for W2K3 and XP as well (cf. Avalon CTP November 2004) to support developers.
- Don't forget about the work at the core of the Longhorn OS: driver isolation, WinFS, new user experience, MSH shell (aka Monad), etc which are all great and non-trivial improvements.

Bart

# WinFS delay discussion@ Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:27 AM

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# WinFS delay discussion@ Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:28 AM

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# Spot the difference@ Tuesday, January 11, 2005 10:45 PM

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# Spot the difference@ Tuesday, January 11, 2005 10:46 PM

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# Microsoft Desktop Search@ Monday, February 14, 2005 10:11 PM

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