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Moshe Eshel said:

Really Neat! This tool has some great options and gizmos...

Very handy, I just forwarded the link to all designers and product people (and developers :) around here
# March 1, 2004 5:40 AM

Hannes Preishuber said:

since i am a web consultance i have seen solutions like this.
The "high end" is to store the HTMl Layout in database
there are always wrong

- no visual designer
- debugging
- development cost
- changes of code need much knowledge
- changes of design need compilation
- its not faster
- no support from standard asp technologies like caching,

bad the most badest thing from own "frameworks" is that there is no way back.
Alle the code and design is lost if you want to step into asp.net
# March 2, 2004 1:33 AM

Marcus Greenwood said:

I've actually worked on systems like this. They're completely insane! Why not worry about making your web-server secure rather than waste time and write code which is far more complex than it need be.

Obviously with the advent of ASP.NET, this problem is solved much more nicely!
# March 2, 2004 4:19 AM

Pat Piccolo (patpiccolo@piccoloenterprises.com) said:

Actually, this was one of the easier ways to do websites with VB6. I think the buzzword of the day was 'Web Classes'. Jerry Ablan and Matthew Reynolds wrote an excellent book on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/186100222X

I'm so spoiled with ASP.Net. I started using Beta 1 from the PDC back in 2000 when it was ASP+ . I must say though, the best book for the money (free) thats a must-read for anyone who crawled their way through classic ASP / VB6 is to download the 'Design And Implementation Guidelines for Web Clients' from the Microsoft Patterns and Practices website

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnpag/html/diforwc.asp
# March 2, 2004 8:24 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Pat,
Thanks for that link to the Patterns & Practices page. I must have missed that PDF - because I've downloaded and read just about all of them.
# March 2, 2004 1:21 PM

Paul Wilson said:

Yep, that's the plan -- just MS SQL. Of course, you can use my "lite" version of ObjectSpaces now, instead of waiting, and it supports MS SQL, Access, Oracle, other generic ANSI databases, like MySql.

See http://weblogs.asp.net/pwilson/archive/2004/01/07/48405.aspx .
# March 2, 2004 7:06 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Wow Paul, thanks. I don't know how the heck I missed the fact that you've got an ORM tool also. I think I'll give it a closer look.
# March 2, 2004 7:43 PM

TrackBack said:

You've been Taken Out. Thanks for the good post.
# March 2, 2004 10:43 PM

George Chernyha said:

My employer is ready to make a MAJOR commitment to .NET. However, since we drank the Oracle kool aid a long time ago, the thought of not having Oracle support in ObjectSpaces makes me cringe, i.e. we're going to use TopLink and Java for database access!
# March 2, 2004 11:43 PM

Shaykat said:

Visual Studio's equivalent in its documentation is at:
ms-help://MS.VSCC.2003/MS.MSDNQTR.2003FEB.1033/vsintro7/html/vxurfvisualstudio70defaultshortcutkeys.htm

Just paste the above into the little web input thing toolbar in Visual studio. BTW this URL is from my Everett machine.
# March 3, 2004 1:41 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks Shaykat, I'll give it a look.
# March 3, 2004 1:50 AM

Bawb said:

Damb troo dat' that's a useful link.
# March 3, 2004 2:08 AM

Frans Bouma said:

They'll have a hard time supporting other databases than SqlServer, because of some details in the xml format they use. They also don't use (afaik) a plugin architecture for sql generation. THis is especially a wrong choice because Oracle now can't provide a Sql engine for Oracle which can be used with Objectspaces.

George: Toplink is a top player, I don't think there is a .NET equivalent for that system available at the moment. THere are O/R mappers available on .NET of course which do support Oracle. :)
# March 3, 2004 4:29 AM

TrackBack said:

I'm sure many of you know this page, but for the rest - here is useful link to default Visual Studio .NET shortcut keys. I like this stuff. My favorite one is CTRL + TAB to navigate over opened files. [Via Jason Mauss]...
# March 3, 2004 10:43 AM

Jerry Pisk said:

Wow, Ctrl+Tab has been in Windows MDI applications since at least Windows 3.1, and probably even earlier but I am too young to remember older versions. Funny that people are finding out about these basic keyboard shortcuts today...
# March 3, 2004 11:57 AM

Josh said:

Considering that he says he makes about $500 a month through Amazon referrals, he must have a lot of fans. I don't know how much he gets per book, but it would seem to me that it would take a lot of people going to joelonsoftware.com to generate that many purchases through click-throughs. I don't have a referral account, so I don't know the details. Just seemed like a lot to me.

Regarding your post, I don't know that it matters how old someone is when it comes to finding good people. Good people are good people, regardless of age. I'm a fairly young guy (27) and I wouldn't hesitate to hire an older programmer if I thought that he/she would fit in with my team and add value to the team. Conversely, I would hesitate to hire someone younger for the same reasons.
# March 4, 2004 6:05 PM

Josh said:

My wife is a technical trainer and she is impressed with LiveMeeting.
# March 4, 2004 7:12 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Yeah, $500 a month in Amazon referrals IS a lot. I have a referral account and I've made about $50 in 2 years or so.
# March 4, 2004 8:27 PM

TrackBack said:

You've been Taken Out. Thanks for the post.
# March 5, 2004 12:36 AM

TrackBack said:

Take Outs for 6 March 2004
# March 6, 2004 7:10 PM

Michael Hensen said:

Looks nice. Do you have any details on the license of the widgets.
I am very interrested as I am building a complex system right now.

I am in the progress of building a new kids community website. As I want complete flexibility on both sides (database and frontend) I want to generate most based on definitions of content managers. These widgets could help me in building up the complex screens

You can contact me at mh@WebVize.nl when you have any detail for me.

Regards,

Michael Hensen
# March 7, 2004 4:56 AM

Chris Ormerod said:

Jason,

The grouping grid you have used on the "home page" and the listbox/grid with the option button on the "listing page", are they both standard controls available in Eds controls library?

And when you say "we can count on IE 5.5 or later being the browser", have you any idea how your app handles on Mozilla etc? Or to put it another way, if a huge customer came along and said they wanted to buy a $10 million licence of your EVS app but it has to run on [Mozilla|Netscape|etc], have you put any thought into how much effort it would be to give them a working version for that browser?
# March 7, 2004 7:04 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Chris,
The grouping grid for the home page and the listbox/grid with the option button on the listing page, we did those ourselves. The only widgets of Ed's that we used were for the Menu's and Toolbars.

To answer your question about the browser compatibilities - We haven't tested our app in any browser other than IE. In the industries and markets we target with our software - we've never run into a non-Windows/non-IE environment. Thinking about it now - it wouldn't take a huge amount of effort to make it compatible with other browsers, we'd just redo the menus and toolbars (which we have in include's already) and possibly re-write a little bit of script for some of the listing pages.
# March 7, 2004 9:37 PM

Shannon J Hager said:

The stedy.com site is pretty much (98%) useless in non-IE browsers, so it might be more work than you expect if you're using the same components as they are.
# March 8, 2004 1:04 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Yeah - the stedy.com stuff is done with behaviors (.htc) using VBScript and JScript mostly. I'm not really saying I would convert them to JavaScript - we'd probably re-write them and make them simple menu's like you see with widgets like Telerik's or something. But, like I was saying, it's not really an issue - I doubt we'll lose any sales because of the IE requirement. 99.9% of people we deal with are on Windows using IE already.

Besides - I'm sick of all the stupidity out there with browsers. I'm not going to spend 3 or 4 times as long as I should have to writing script so that it's compatible with all the different browsers. There should be one standard - and ONE BROWSER, period. So as far as I'm concerned, that browser is IE for now, until someone else takes noticable market share away from it.
# March 8, 2004 1:18 PM

Joel Ross said:

I love this idea! I have contemplated doing the same type of thing, but opted for building tournament management software (like NCAA pools) instead.

Yahoo used to provide free csv feeds for fantasy sports information that you could integrate to - it was updated daily early in the morning, but they've since taken that feed down (from what I can tell).

Sorry, I don't really have any name suggestions for you though. I'm a developer - No creative bones in my body!

What are your plans for the software? I would be very interested to see what comes of it, as I want to run a few fantasy leagues, but don't have the time to 1.) manage it manually, or 2.) build the software to run it automagically.
# March 9, 2004 9:55 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Joel - My plans are to be able to let people download the framework and install it on their own web server in order to host as many of their own fantasy leagues as they want. There would have to be plenty of admin tools so that once it's installed they can set up leagues for various sports, configure it to point to a particular data source for stats information, authorize users, etc.. I haven't yet decided how all the logic will go but I haven't seen anyone else build something like this before so I thought it might be groundbreaking as well as fun. I wonder if perhaps I should have some kind of Workspace or some facility for people to be able to provide suggestions for the kind of features it should have. I played in some of the very first fantasy leagues back in 1997-98 (Sandbox, the "old" WallStreetSports, etc.) but lost interest after a few years not being able to keep up. I think it would be fun to build my own and get back into it.
# March 9, 2004 12:06 PM

Shannon J Hager said:

There is one standard. No browser follows that completely. The choice we make is do we write for the standard or do we write for a specific browser. I don't think that writing for the standard is 4 times as much work, certainly hasn't proven to be so in any JavaScript work I've done. In your case, considering the fact that you bought the components, there would have been no extra work on your part at all, either. There are plenty of components that are not written specifically for IE.
Writing for IE is fine if you discount the future. If you write with the future in mind, you choose to pretend that IE is correct and will never move any closer towards the standards. I can't believe this is the case; I hold onto my hope that IE will progress.
# March 10, 2004 5:32 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Shannon - we actually didn't have to purchase any components, they were all openly available for us to implement.

And it's not that I'm discounting the future - it's just that we understand our clients very well - and not one has ever asked us to make a web application compatible with a browser other than IE.

I share many of the same thoughts and feelings that you seem to. Personally, I wish there was only one browser, made by a non-profit org that would adhere precisely to the standards. Until something like that happens - we're having to work way harder than we should to build a rich web interface that "looks the same" to everyone.
# March 10, 2004 5:41 PM

M. Keith Warren said:

I dont think that any of us are hounding Microsoft for the slip, they should not ship until it is ready...period. But the underlying story here is that Whidbey is getting held back because of Yukon. While there may be some really good reasons for this that have not been aired, it appears that the reasons are outweighed by the need/desire of the community to get into FX 2.0

# March 11, 2004 1:56 PM

IM said:

What about Fant-o-sport-a-tron 2005?

Damn, I'll never get rich just giving away my brilliant ideas. When will I learn? :-)
# March 11, 2004 2:12 PM

Christian Romney said:

The infuriating part is not the slip itself. Slips happen. The outrageous part is the claim that the slip is because customers want to wait until Yukon to get Whidbey.

See my post at: http://www.xml-blog.com/archives/000185.html
# March 11, 2004 2:14 PM

Jesse Ezell said:

1. The MS folks have already stated that Yukon integration is holding back the VS.NET release date. We don't need all the details of what exactly the details of this are to state that we are not happy with any delays in the release of a product that we can use immediately (VS.NET) due to integration with a product that we don't have specific plans to use any time in the near future (Yukon).

2. The point is that the majority of people AREN'T ready for Yukon (and they won't be next year either), so they aren't going to be upgrading their datacenters any time soon. However, the majority of people are very ready for .NET 2.0. Things like ClickOnce, ObjectSpaces, ASP.NET 2.0, etc. are all things that developers could (and would) use today if they were available. Developers are quite ready to upgrade their IDEs. That is the point you seem to be missing. You couple the two together as if people aren't going to upgrade their IDE's and their datacenter's seperately. I would suggest that the VAST majority of people are going to do just that.

3. If we were going to wait till every last bug was eliminated, we wouldn't get the next version of VS.NET for another 50 years. This is not about bugs in Whidbey, this is about Yukon support. Microsoft has made that pretty clear. In their mind, releasing Whidbey without Yukon is like releasing Orcas without Longhorn. However, those in the development community (aka. Microsoft's customers) think this idea is a bunch of hooey, because as much as they are looking forward to Yukon, that is not what is driving them to upgrade to Whidbey. It is understandable that Microsoft may have made a mistake in judgement, thinking that Yukon was driving Whidbey adoption. What we are trying to do here is let Microsoft know that this is an error in judgement and we don't care all much about Yukon integration with VS.NET.

4. A lot of people still using VB6 and Access don't play into this situation, because they aren't going to be upgrading to Yukon anyway, or VS.NET for that matter. However, a good percentage does play into this situation, because VB.NET is finally going back to its roots in Whidbey to give those VB6 developers the tools they need to make .NET application development feel much more natural. Again, these features have nothing to do with Yukon, so there is no reason to delay VS.NET because of it.
# March 11, 2004 2:32 PM

Frans Bouma said:

"The infuriating part is not the slip itself. Slips happen. The outrageous part is the claim that the slip is because customers want to wait until Yukon to get Whidbey."
EXACTLY.

I fully agree that slipping releasedates are something we have to live with. However because someone tied them together a product which has a better chance to get released earlier (and has to, vs.net 2003 has serious issues) is now delayed until that other product is released. THAT's the issue here.

Of course, if you want both, that's a pity, but see it as if a windows release is delayed because a new office release is scheduled at that same moment and can't make the deadline.

I never blame developers for slipping release dates, don't get me wrong. I only blame marketing departments for slipping release dates. And that's what this is: marketing. Yukon's tools might rely heavily on whidbey, that doesn't mean whidbey has to ship with yukon. It has to ship or together or earlier.

Yukon can perfectly ship with an installer for a full plugin/addon for whidbey, which is perfect as people who do not run yukon do not need the tools anyway.
# March 11, 2004 2:36 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Yeah - to Frans and Jesse - I more fully understand now what it is you guys were taking issue with - that Whidbey was (or is) being tied to Yukon. After reading about a dozen different blogs I was getting different messages from them all. Anyway - I added an update to my post to reflect that.
# March 11, 2004 2:40 PM

Mike Gunderloy said:

But remember...Yukon uses the same IDE bits as Whidbey for its management tools (bye bye to Enterprise Manager and Query Analyzer). So if you ship Whidbey before Yukon, you're either comitting Yukon to be unable to fix shell integration bugs in the intervening time, or you're committing us to taking another shell version when Yukon ships.

The connection between Yukon and Whidbey is more intimate than many people outside of Microsoft realize, I think.

Of course, we're all just reading tea leaves here; all this furor is based on a few lines of quote that eWeek got out of Tom Rizzo. So unless we get clarification from the product teams, we're all guessing.
# March 11, 2004 5:36 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks for pointing that out Mike - in Question #1 in my post - this is the type of thing I was wondering about. I think if Tom Rizzo had mentioned something the IDE bits there might not have been less complaining, but perhaps more understanding. Maybe he did mention it - but eWeek edited it down, who knows.
# March 11, 2004 5:43 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Hmm IM, tempting but there's just a certain je ne sais quoi about that name.. :-)
# March 11, 2004 5:56 PM

TrackBack said:

# March 11, 2004 6:32 PM

TrackBack said:

# March 11, 2004 8:07 PM

TrackBack said:

# March 11, 2004 10:13 PM

Scott said:

IBM Alphaworks site vs. MS Research.
http://www.lazycoder.com/weblog/wp-trackback.php/30
# March 11, 2004 10:56 PM

torsten.rendelmann@gmx.net (TorstenR) said:

At http://labs.silverorange.com/archives/2003/july/privaterss#replies you find some infos about RSS Feed security and how the more popular Aggregators handle them.
# March 12, 2004 8:42 AM

Greg Reinacker said:

NewsGator supports all of the authentication mechanisms you list - Basic, Digest, and NTLM/Kerberos. Incidentally, the subscriber-only feeds in NewsGator Online Services (http://services.newsgator.com) are all protected with Basic and Digest.
# March 12, 2004 11:30 AM

Michael Carr said:

The thing I'm MOST looking forward to is having an HTML editor that doesn't constantly mangle my HTML. So if we can't have Whidbey, how about a version 1.1 patch for Visual Studio 2003 that makes it not mangle my HTML?? Can we at least have THAT before 2005? Exactly what was the purpose of that "Check for Updates" help menu item in Visual Studio, anyway?
# March 12, 2004 11:27 PM

Alex Kazovic said:

Presumably this means that there is a very good chance that Indigo will now ship with Whidbey.
# March 13, 2004 1:48 AM

Doug Thews said:

The problem with Blogs replacing TechPubs, is how does the average Joe User know who's Blog to take advice from? I've seen a lot of Blogs that quite frankly don't give you the right way to do something. At least authors in VSM are pre-screened to make sure that they know their stuff.
# March 15, 2004 7:55 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Doug - I think the answer to that is simple. Good blogs will have lots of links to them in other blogs or web pages. Bad ones won't.
# March 15, 2004 8:10 PM

Doug Reilly said:

The link to my blog pointed to in the comment name link is a blog that I do "professionally". That is, it is a blog that is actually content on the site that I get paid to write as opposed to just someone posting randomly. I was very interested to hear someone was willing to pay for such a thing, and I think that in general the model is a good one (though I do not think it is working terribly well on blogs.mobilizedsoftware.com yet, but this is a new publication - I get more comments on identical items posted on my weblogs.asp.net blog than on the Mobilizedsoftware.com blog - perhaps due to the required free registration to read blogs.mobilizedsoftware.com). I am not sure if all my content is better than the average technical blog entry, but there are entries that are more comprable to magazine articles in scope than normal blog entries.

It will be interesting to see if this is a trend or if I am just fortunate!
# March 15, 2004 8:41 PM

TrackBack said:

You have been Taken Out! Thanks for the post.
# March 16, 2004 2:28 AM

Shannon J Hager said:

I think bad advice in blogs will have "no, that's wrong" in the comments or no comments, where goo advice will have "thanks" in the comments. The thing about magazines is that they also occassionally give bad advice and there is no comment area unless they publish a letter from a reader a month or so later.
# March 16, 2004 2:30 AM

Olle de Zwart said:

I still have a MSDN magazine subscription. Because I still find reading from paper easier then from the screen when it's a large piece of text. I can take it with me, I've read it in he train, in bed, on vacation etc...

I do agree with you that there might be new delivery/content systems that will either keep me there in the future or pull more people in.
# March 16, 2004 5:32 AM

TrackBack said:

# March 16, 2004 8:45 AM

Don said:

Hey John, good ideas hopefully someone will take note!

http://weblogs.asp.net/dbrowning/archive/2004/03/16/90438.aspx

# March 16, 2004 9:48 AM

Jeff Gonzalez said:

I always liked the saying, it takes 9 months to make a baby. 9 women can't make a baby in 1 month.
# March 16, 2004 12:27 PM

TrackBack said:

# March 16, 2004 12:48 PM

Damian said:

Hahahaha

I saw a C3PO in Sydney yesterday :)

# March 16, 2004 8:06 PM

Darron Jennings said:

I have mine... it matches my web address...

http://www.icodevb.net/images/icodevb.jpg
# March 16, 2004 9:05 PM

Sean Malloy said:

a guy in Melbourne has BAJEDI (Be a Jedi)
# March 16, 2004 9:22 PM

ron said:


I admit, I have been living in a cave since I was born. What does:

w8n405

mean?

thanks.
# March 16, 2004 9:41 PM

Jason Mauss said:

ron - I believe it's "waiting for 05" as in "waiting for SQL Server 2005 (yukon)"
# March 16, 2004 11:07 PM

TrackBack said:

# March 17, 2004 12:25 AM

TrackBack said:

# March 17, 2004 3:56 AM

TrackBack said:

You have been Taken Out! Thanks for the post.
# March 17, 2004 5:13 AM

Kent Tegels said:

Precisely. :)
# March 17, 2004 9:35 PM

foO said:

gotta luv RSS... else i'd never have known or found this ;)

thx for the plug, btw! for what it's worth, i think your webapp UI looks damn nice and i absolutely dig the icons. i swear, a nice set of icons can make the biggest difference in how something looks - not to mention how users respond and react to using it.

just my $0.02, but "two big thumbs up" on EVS, bud! >:D
# March 19, 2004 10:03 PM

Derek Ferguson said:

Fawcette owes me over $1500 for articles I wrote for them in 2002. I actually went the to their offices a couple of months ago and threw a bit of a temper tantrum to try to get them to pay, but only got $200 out of it. :-(

On the positive side, I have been Editor-in-Chief of the .NET Developer's Journal since January 2003 and I'm happy to announce that the content in our upcoming April issue was 100% chosen by the members of INETA via the voting site at http://www.ineta.org/inetachoice. As far as I'm aware, we're the only publication in the industry that does this -- so we would actually appear to have already done exactly what you are suggesting above. :-)
# March 21, 2004 5:15 PM

Jason Mauss said:

That's cool to hear Derek - I wish more magazines would choose their publication criteria like that or in a smiliar way. Who do you typically look for to write articles for .NET DJ? INETA Speakers/authors?
# March 21, 2004 7:04 PM

Jeff said:

Good... I'm not the only one! We might not "get it" for different reasons, but now that I read your perspective, it does kind of feel like a "look at me" effort while denying that it's "look at me" at all.

That's the funny thing about blogs. They (for now anyway) create exposure for people that you might not otherwise be exposed to. That must have some kind of effect on people.

But I'll leave it at that. I'm sure everyone has pure intentions at heart, but the execution of such intentions isn't always great.
# April 6, 2004 3:21 PM

adamw said:

Well, you persevered longer than I did. When the rendering fell to pieces on Firefox, I just closed it down. I stopped have patience with sites that requite me to switch my user agents some time ago.

Like you, I’ll give it another shot when it either works on my computer, or I hear an overwhelming amount of praise from people I trust.
# April 6, 2004 3:50 PM

Jerry Pisk said:

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fchannel9.msdn.com - They can't even get the Transitional HTML right.

It's just so typical of Microsoft - we're going to listen to you, as long as you say and do what we want you to. In this case only use IE and waste your time watching videos... But we're going to keep telling you it's not marketing so you have to believe it's not.
# April 6, 2004 4:19 PM

Robert Scoble said:

We tested it in Firefox and it worked here. We fixed several bugs we didn't catch today. You can email the entire development team (all five of us) at channel9@microsoft.com. Mozilla and Firefox are important to us and we are going to fix it so it works. Just report the bugs! Sorry for screwing it up.
# April 6, 2004 8:16 PM

TrackBack said:

Take Outs for 6 April 2004
# April 7, 2004 3:04 AM

Jerry Pisk said:

Robert, you just did the exact thing that's wrong with Microsoft. Just create a page that's valid HTML (you current version has 353 errors in it), and don't worry about specific browsers. I mean, which is the home page title, Channel 9 or Channel9 Forums?
# April 7, 2004 12:52 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Jerry - I think what you're seeing over at Channel 9 is that they built it using VS.NET and ASP.NET. Now, if they had written the HTML by hand...writing XHTML wouldn't be too difficult. But they've been biten by their own tool (VS.NET) that doesn't create valid X(HTML) to begin with. It's their own fault. Maybe now they'll see what we've been complaining about all this time.
# April 7, 2004 1:00 PM

Jerry Pisk said:

I'm stil finding it hard to believe that even VS.NET would put two <title> tags into the output. If it does then it needs some serious fixing (well, we all know it needs that), but that will not happen since we're all waiting for Whidbey and not using existing tools anymore, right? and if it doesn't then they have to write the HTML themselves (be it by hand, with a filter, master page, header control, whatever, the actual implementation is not that important) without knowing or caring what their code actually does, which again is typical for Microsoft. Maybe if I should shoot a video of myself reading this they'll listen and clean up their act ;)
# April 7, 2004 1:39 PM

Stefano Demiliani said:

A good idea but not too simple to maintain I think... a big work. Good luck! It's interesting...
# April 22, 2004 4:29 AM

Wim said:

Jason,

Interesting idea. I think you do need to scope it more. How realistic is it to want to cover everything?

Don't forget that a decent amount of good quality content covering a limited set of topics is better than a huge amount of low quality content covering too many topics.

Which brings me to another point - content. The site you have in mind will only be successful with good content. How are you going to get this, and also - how do you think you can keep growing this with so many topics to cover?

Lastly, you need to make sure that on launch, you already have decent content up on the site, otherwise people will check it out and not come back.

My couple of cents,
Wim
# April 22, 2004 6:13 AM

Datagrid Girl said:

Wow, are you going to develop all of the content yourself?

Just curious :)
Marcie
# April 22, 2004 10:26 AM

Jeff said:

What you're suggesting is a good idea, but it's also a herculean task. It has also been done before on other sites, just not organized well.

I launched http://www.uberasp.net a couple of months ago and as soon as I got knee deep in a paying project, my updating of it stopped. I feel like I've got something out there now that's just another URL of neglected junk.

Not saying you'll have the same problem, but sites like these are content intensive and not easy to keep up.
# April 22, 2004 10:29 AM

Chrisg said:

Good luck, some ideas for you
- get volunteers to provide the content - with the best will in the world steve doesnt write *all* the articles on aspalliance ;O)
- make it easy to manage and update, you want to put most of your energy into building content and community not editing html and fixing problems
- see if you can get an ISP/hoster on board - if it is successful your bandwidth requirement will be huge
- what about starting with one topic then growing to cover everything, ambition is great but you dont want to get disheartened by the magnitude of it
- to make it worth your while you need content, visitors, and reward. I am guessing your reward will be ads as well as praise (<g>) so consider what people are looking for, make your site search engine friendly and think about talking to steve about the aspalliance ad network

Slightly controversial point: If you have this much energy you could always write some of what you described for an existing site then when you have enough content take it with you? Speak to the site owners, might save you a lot of hassle ..

Chris
# April 22, 2004 11:51 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Dare Obasanjo has posted a lengthy response to this on his blog at http://25hoursaday.com/weblog/permalink.aspx?guid=3824dceb-82ac-4c2f-8642-992e753cf46d
# April 22, 2004 4:37 PM

DevHawk said:

FYI, it was me who said that you pass messages back and forth, not objects.
# April 22, 2004 4:55 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks Harry, I couldn't remember and had already deleted the .wmv file of the show.
# April 22, 2004 5:21 PM

TrackBack said:

# April 23, 2004 4:32 AM

TrackBack said:

# April 23, 2004 4:34 AM

Datagrid Girl said:

1) no ads
3) anonymous is good
# April 23, 2004 10:48 AM

Wim said:

Ads is fine. As long as it's no flash cr*p or popups. Embedded images - no problem, unless you plaster them all in between and around the actual content, in which case it does get annoying.

Should be able to post anonymously. We all know you get the stupid trolls here an there with anonymous access, but simply make sure you check the site frequently and delete through some admin interface where appropriate.

Cheers,
Wim
# April 23, 2004 5:47 PM

Julie Lerman said:

Jason - this is all pointing back to an interview that was just published today. It is the very last question in the interview that Marcie was referring to which is my attempt to scratch the surface. Marcie links to the interview in her post.
# April 25, 2004 8:56 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Julie - sorry about that - I forgot to click the link in Marcie's post before writing my post. While I think there is some truth in the answer you gave, like you say, you only really scratched the surface. I think there are some underlying psychological and perhaps social reasons behind the lack of women in technology.
# April 25, 2004 11:06 PM

Julie Lerman said:

Jason- you should ask my husband some time if I ever get emotional when I'm programming! Like "i'm gonna throw this damned box out the window if it doesn't do what i *want* it to do!" :-)
# April 25, 2004 11:12 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Heh, Julie - that's just the computer's ability to frustrate you. Everyone experiences that. In fact, I bet it's worse for those that aren't programmers. They have less of an idea about why it won't work.
# April 25, 2004 11:23 PM

Alex Lowe said:

The answer, or I should say answers, to the question is simple, in my mind. Julie hit on these in her answer during the interview. There are two major reasons that females are not represented equally in the IT industry:

1) Men and History: It is a historical fact that men have prevented women from being treated equally in the workplace. Now, one might argue that this is changing but I believe that history is one place you will find a piece of the puzzle as to why there are fewer women "in the IT " than there are men. We are still emerging from a "man's world" to one where things are more equal.

2) Society and gender ring fencing: Again, historically we can see that women were not always pushed to work outside the home let alone work in the science/mathematics field (the precursors to computer science). Society has not done much to encourage the education in and pursuit of technology by females.

Genders are not "ring fenced" like they used to be but there are still men and women who believe that each gender has a certain purpose in life. This is a societal issue that has plagued the United States for a long time. We see this with both gender and race.

Now, don't get me wrong - A LOT of positive change has taken place in these areas over the last 20-30 years. Women are certainly in a better position today than they were even 10 years ago. That said, societal changes of this kind take many many years to come to fruition. We have a long way to go.

Lastly, I think we can all agree that there is no difference in the capabilities among men and women in the IT field. That is to say, there are no physical or mental reasons a women can't be as successful or more successful than men in the IT field. So, I don't think it is a good idea for us (men) to in any way demean the idea that there can and should be more women in the IT field. If both genders are equally capable (which they are) then there should at least be a more even distribution in the workplace than the current 90/10 split.

In response to the women speaking at TechEd line of questioning, I think you are seeing a "chicken and egg" type problem. In order to coax more women into the lime light, there needs to be a sufficient number of women already on the top of the field. How do you get the chicken before you have the egg? I don't think you will (as you've seen thus far). Instead, over time people like Julie will raise awareness to a level where it is seen as a "cool" thing for women to be on top of the IT field. You must wait for the egg to hatch.

I think as we see more women enter the IT field in the next ten to twenty years we are going to see some innovation that wouldn't otherwise exist.
# April 25, 2004 11:46 PM

TrackBack said:

Take Outs for 25 April 2004
# April 26, 2004 3:30 AM

TrackBack said:

# April 26, 2004 9:06 AM

TrackBack said:

# April 26, 2004 9:14 AM

Scott C Reynolds said:

"Development methodologies" sounds good for XP, AOD, TDD, etc. For something like SOA, OO, I would maybe say..."Architecture Paradigms" or something of that nature (Since "Architecture Paradigms" sounds a bit like marketing-speak).

I think for a site like this, a lot of what is missing from other developer sites are the real CS-oriented things...algorithms, architecture, theory, stuff like that. A lot of programmers have jumped into VB or whatever (not slighting VB at all here..just example) without the solid foundations, and just start throwing code together and learning as they go, and there is a serious lack of the foundation material for software development out there on the web, at least compared to the amount of "code snippet" sites out there.

My two cents. Good luck with this. Very excited to see it progress.
# April 26, 2004 3:30 PM

TrackBack said:

# April 26, 2004 4:59 PM

TrackBack said:

# April 26, 2004 5:03 PM

Kent Tegels said:

I'm sort of the same thought. I think the five "schools" if you will are:

Applications (utilization)
Programming (construction)
Systems (engineering)
Project Management
Architecture

Within each area, you would have a fundamentals (100 levels), intermediate (200 levels), Applied (300 levels) and Theory (400 levels.)

Something that I've seen as of late and have been talking more and more about is that any IT professional should have mastery of the fundametals in all of these disciplines (the old every Marine is a Rifleman first theory.) I've dealt with so many developers who couldn't tell you a socket from a packet, and too many DBAs who think they'd make better programmers because they'd normalize everything.

As a group, we tend to be far weaker at making good use of the common applications out there. Why create a database driven system for 200k of data that's acccessed read-only maybe 20 times a day -- how about using Office XML instead?

I also feel that regardless of your methodology, know how to plan its execution is crutical by sorely lacking skill, so everybody gets to take a good dose of PM skills training.

Finally, architecture is no more of a capstone nor should it be thought of as a "higher level" skill than any other. It didn't take Einstein to design your house. Everybody needs to know how all the pieces work together.

But then, I was a Math and Economics Major. Take it for what its worth. :)
# April 26, 2004 11:39 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Kent, by "Applications (Utilization)" do you mean something like having tutorials on how to use certain applications? For example, "How to create a web service using VS.NET" ? Or did you mean something different?
# April 26, 2004 11:51 PM

TrackBack said:

Take Outs for 26 April 2004
# April 27, 2004 3:29 AM

TrackBack said:

# April 27, 2004 3:59 AM

TrackBack said:

# April 28, 2004 6:11 AM

TrackBack said:

# April 28, 2004 8:41 AM

AndrewSeven said:

I think it was you, not your boss, who had the opportunity to make a script to do your job ;)

Edward DeBono has a good book called Opportunities
http://www.edwdebono.com/debono/oppo.htm
# April 28, 2004 9:08 AM

Matt H said:

I love the sound of that... I would love to create some more opportunities through experience as you say, it's an excellent idea.

Hope that even people like me that are lacking the mojo of dev teams like those on asp.net forums and the like can still help out. It would probably count as "playtime"!
# April 28, 2004 10:01 AM

Joseph said:

"I noticed myself feeling burned out from spending every waking moment trying to improve my skills and create opportunities for myself." Amen to that...

I think this is a good idea.
# April 28, 2004 12:53 PM

Rob.Linton said:

Cool, thanks for the opportunity.

Let's build a full-featured (tbd), no-touch deploy, WinForms-based XML viewer-editor

Rob
# April 28, 2004 2:55 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks for the idea Rob - I've posted it in a 'Project Ideas' message in the DevCampus orkut community forum along with one of my ideas.
# April 28, 2004 3:05 PM

Rob.Linton said:

Deployment/Maintenance Department

A very important discipline, I think...deploying and supporting multiple customer installations...I'm especially interested in "no-touch" deployment technologies and "no-touch" patch/update mechinisms.
# April 28, 2004 3:14 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Rob - do you think Deployment/Maintenance should be it's own department...or...a course under the Software Development Platforms department? It might be able to go either way...but I do want to keep the number of departments to as few as possible and then branch out the hierarchy from there.
# April 28, 2004 3:31 PM

TrackBack said:

# April 29, 2004 1:48 PM

Kent Tegels said:

Applications would cover the use and reuse of off-the-shelf software like Biztalk, Visio, Access and so on. I don't know many wheels I've seen reinvented just because of "not invented here." Forcing applications awareness should reduce that.
# May 3, 2004 7:21 AM

TrackBack said:

# May 4, 2004 9:12 PM

Jerry Pisk said:

Two problems - their menu doesn't close when you click outside of it (very annoying) and the whole site runs within a frame, making it very difficult to link to a specific product page. Oh and - there are no product description pages, at least I couldn't find any :( And he doesn't think the same can be done without behaviors? A menu can be done using styles alone, even without scripting, but it won't work in IE because IE doesn't support CSS (well, it doesn't support most of it). Oh and the latest is DOM + Styles, not DHTML and tables (note: script handlers are not URLs, the only reason jscript: code works is because the script engine treats jscript: as a label)... But I must give Ed something - he really managed to create the desktop look and feel, minus all the user customization (font sizes, colors, and so on).
# May 4, 2004 9:13 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Jerry - you think the same desktop look and feel is possible without behaviors? I'd be very impressed if someone could pull that off. and IE doesn't support CSS? Like which parts exactly? I've usually found that non-IE browsers have lack of CSS support, not IE.
# May 4, 2004 10:12 PM

Shannon J Hager said:

and where on Earth do you think you found such a thing, Mr. Mauss? IE is the scourge of anyone who uses CSS.
# May 5, 2004 1:53 AM

Jason Mauss said:

OK - I'm willing to learn here...(pardon my ignorance)..what type of CSS stuff does IE not support? Personally I use FireFox and like to stick to the XHTML 1.0 Transitional and CSS 2.0 standards, so what type of CSS stuff doesn't IE support? Is that why IE offers stuff like filters with the DXImageTransform styles?
# May 5, 2004 2:05 AM

Shannon J Hager said:

http://dotnetguy.techieswithcats.com/archives/004129.shtml

Has a link to a pretty much definitive list. You can also check the comments in Scoble's blog where he asked people to list their 1 worst beef with IE, or the areas of Channel 9 that are dedicated to IE's problems.
# May 5, 2004 7:44 AM

Jerry Pisk said:

Jason, all behaviors do is provide an easy way to tie script to events. That's it. They are not something that cannot be done with inline event handlers. The resulting markup will be larger but it will work on browsers other than IE.

And CSS support in IE? My biggest issue is selectors, IE only supports class names and ids. Nothing else. There are tons of CSS conformity tests, try W3C's at http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/ and see for yourself how well IE handles styles. Oh and we're talking IE 6 in standards compliant mode, anything earlier is a joke due to broken box model.
# May 5, 2004 6:51 PM

Ed Boelzner said:

Hey Perry...

First of all... My site does not run within a frame... it is two absolutely positioned DIV's... But that's ok...

The important thing here is as follows:

Whether or not I use behaviors or inline script or C# assemblies... the exacting replication of Windows and Office UI and its functionality has not been duplicated anywhere else on the web... Not even OWA from MS!!!

Some may have tried, but think about all the script that is running on my site, have to give some credit to MS, it runs!!! (15000+ lines of script in my site alone!!!) Because I can choose when to sink events... multiple instances of OOP code... encapsulation, etc.

Behaviors facilitate element owned instances of the code, no re-entrant problems like with inline script!!! Viewlink behaviors, XHTML 1.0 complient, have their own view seperate from the parent page... let's see... can we do that with inline script??? NO!!!

Why don't you put up a link to your stuff... so we can give you some credit like you me gave here!!!

If you don't like IE... well that is your choice... I do... but realize any browser is without problems...

The bigger problem is that we are relegated to development within an inferior shell... get rid of the browser and use the internet for what it it... CONNECTIVITY!!!!

Oh... BTW... the reason that I have become so good (and rich... hehehe) at developing UI's within IE is because for the last 7 years... yup... 7 YEARS!!! my skills have been in high demand from the business community...

WHY???? BECAUSE THE ALL USE INTERNET EXPLORER!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also... thanks for the feedback on the menus... I will fix that in the AM...

Have a nice day...
Ed (http://www.stedy.com - ed@stedy.com)

PS: Have a new Enterprise level SPAM filter for Win2000/2003 - Exchange2000/2003 soon to be released... no, not script, c# managed code!!!! .NET RULZ!!!!
# May 7, 2004 2:12 AM

Jerry Pisk said:

Ed, this is what your site returns:

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:44:27 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.29 (Unix) PHP/4.3.4
X-Powered-By: PHP/4.3.4
X-Accelerated-By: PHPA/1.3.3r2
Keep-Alive: timeout=1, max=99
Connection: Keep-Alive
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Content-Type: text/html

<html>
<head>
<title>steady.com</title>
<script>
function homepage(){
return;
var oHomePage = document.body;
oHomePage.style.behavior="url(#default#homepage)";
if(!oHomePage.isHomePage('http://www.your.com/') && !oHomePage.isHomePage('http://your.com/')) {
oHomePage.setHomePage("http://www.your.com/");
}
return false;
}
function loader() {
win2 = window.open('http://www.your.com/index.php?nf=1', '', 'scrollbars=1,resizable=1,toolbar=1,location=1,menubar=1,status=1');
win2.blur();
window.focus();
}
</script>
<frameset border=0 rows="40, *" onLoad="loader();" onUnload="homepage();">
<frame src="frame.php?frame=football&dom=steady.com">
<frame src="http://apps5.oingo.com/apps/domainpark/domainpark.cgi?s=steady&dp_lp=7&cid=GOTO2486&dp_format=1.3&dp_p4pid=digimedia&dp&dp_own=www.DigiMedia.com">
</frameset>
</html>

You keep thinking that those are not frames but I think it's pretty bad that you don't even know what markup your site produces.

I'll put up a link to my work as soon as I'm finished. You can take a look at www.leadstoloans.com, but know that that code is over two years old and it is not designed to duplicate a windows look and feel. But it is HTML 4.01 Strict, even with scripting. The reason I didn't go with XHTML is exactly what you said - because most people use IE which doesn't support XHTML (it can't handle CDATA sections and it doesn't uderstand the XHTML MIME type, application/xhtml+xml).
# May 10, 2004 4:50 PM

Jerry Pisk said:

Oops, a typo. Here's your site:

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:55:00 GMT
Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
MicrosoftOfficeWebServer: 5.0_Pub
X-Powered-By: ASP.NET
X-AspNet-Version: 1.1.4322
Cache-Control: private
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Length: 1747

<!-- ------------------------------------------------------ -->
<!-- Copyright ©2002-2004 Stedy Software and Systems -->
<!-- Please see http://www.stedy.com for terms of use. -->
<!-- ------------------------------------------------------ -->

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">
<html xmlns:stedysoft="http://www.stedy.com">
<head>
<title>Stedy Software and Systems</title>
<meta name="author" content="Edward J. Boelzner">
<meta name="organization-email" content="ed@stedy.com">
<meta name="copyright" content="Copyright ©2002-2004 Stedy Software and Systems : All Rights Reserved.">
<meta name="country" content="USA">
<meta name="robots" content="noindex">
<meta name="generator" content="Microsoft Visual Studio .NET 7.1">
<meta name="code_language" content="C#">
<meta name="vs_defaultClientScript" content="jscript">
<meta name="vs_targetSchema" content="http://schemas.microsoft.com/intellisense/ie5">
<meta http-equiv="MSThemeCompatible" content="Yes">
<style type="text/css">
frameset,
frame
{
border: none;
margin: 0px;
}
</style>
<script language="jscript" type= "text/jscript" defer>
function onRightClick() {

return true ;

}
</script>
</head>
<frameset framespacing="0" border="0" frameborder="0" rows="61,*">
<frame id="banner" name="banner" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" noresize src="banner.aspx">
<frame id="main" name="main" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" noresize src="main.aspx">
<noframes>
<body>
<p>This page uses frames, but your browser doesn't support them.</p>
</body>
</noframes>
</frameset>
</html>

Still, frames are there...
# May 10, 2004 4:57 PM

AndrewSeven said:

camelCase and PascalCase are not the same.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/cpgenref/html/cpconcapitalizationstyles.asp

Plural vs Singular names for table names can be a hot topic. I used to believe in plurals, but my experiences changed that.

With Doctors and Patients, DoctorsPatients could be a 1 to 1 or many to many.
With Doctor and Patient, DoctorPatients is one to many while DoctorsPatients is the many to many. Also, when I code against the data, I am usualy working with a single row so one "doctor" rather than one "doctors".

I am a fanatic about the naming of things and SQL seems to be the hardest place to have a clear convention.
When a view and a table are the only public visible things in the DB, should the really be named differently?

# May 10, 2004 9:14 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks for catching the camelCase/PascalCase thing Andrew. I saw it on another site and I wasn't sure about it but hadn't looked it up yet.
# May 10, 2004 9:17 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Andrew - the case you make for singular table names is one I haven't thought of before (or encountered personally). It's a strong argument for singular table names. You've got me re-thinking my convention already!! Thanks!
# May 10, 2004 9:25 PM

TrackBack said:

# May 10, 2004 11:42 PM

TrackBack said:

# May 10, 2004 11:42 PM

TrackBack said:

# May 10, 2004 11:42 PM

TrackBack said:

# May 10, 2004 11:45 PM

TrackBack said:

# May 10, 2004 11:45 PM

TrackBack said:

# May 10, 2004 11:45 PM

Alex Papadimoulis said:

Jason,

Good article, but I'll have to disagree with you on the _Pk, _Fk business. It's not only superflous, but it will cause a major headache when keys change. And they sure do. Consider going from a straight text field (let's say "Status") to a constrained lookup table, now you're stuck with changing the column name (to "Status_fk") or having an inconsitant naming convention. Ditto for the column datatype prefix, as those can change too (eg, intQuantity becomes a float because they need partial returns, or something).

And kudos for saying "No" to the "tbl" prefix! It's very frusterating to have view's named tblWhatever and tables named vwSomething.

-- Alex
# May 11, 2004 1:08 AM

Michael Dorfman said:

Call me cranky, but I have to disagree with Andrew on the singular/plural issue, and with Jason on a whole lot of other things.

When I code against the data, I am usually *not* working with a single row. I'm dealing with a *set* of rows (which may be a set of one). The Doctors table contains many doctors (each of whom presumably has a distinct row).

Thus, I can write things like

UPDATE Doctors
SET Status = "Preferred"
WHERE MortalityRate < .01

Not that if we were to include Chiropractors in the table, I wouldn't rename the table to DoctorsAndChiropractors but MedicalPersonnel or Practitioners. Personally, I'd prefer a collective noun to a plural, and a plural to a singular. In other words, Rule 1a stands.

Similarly, I have no problem with rules 1b-1e.

Now, as for "Junction Tables"-- if the relationship is (for example) one doctor to many patients (with each patient having exactly one doctor, such as a "Primary Care" relationship) I'd have to ask why you'd want a separate table at all-- instead of DoctorPatients, you'd be better off just having a PrimaryCarePhysician column on your Patient table.

If, on the other hand, the relationship is Many-to-Many, you need the table--but I'd be asking what the table is actually modelling. In this case, it would seem to be "DoctorPatientRelationships", and you'd probably want to have more information in it than just the foreign key references to Doctors and Patients. You'd want to have, for example, RelationshipType (Primary, Referring, Consulting) and possibly start and end dates (since relationships tend to change over time-- don't neglect the temporal dimension!)

In other words, you probably have no need for "Junction Tables" at all, if you've thought about your Data Model sufficiently.

So, rule 1f is irrelevant at best and misleading at worst. Name the table after the thing or relationship it represents. That's probably not a DoctorPatient.


Now, as for Rules 2a and 2b( Foreign Key and Primary Key names): why would the DoctorID be different on a Doctor or a Patient record? Shouldn't I be able to write

SELECT * FROM Doctors JOIN Patients ON (Doctor.DoctorID = Patients.DoctorID)

Isn't this clear enough? And wouldn't it be nice to be able to use the metadata (INFORMATION_SCHEMA.Columns) to find all of the DoctorID columns in all of the tables, if I wanted to (for instance) change a datatype?

In fact, a lot of database modelling tools are smart enough to recognize that the DoctorID on Doctors and the DoctorID on Patients represent the same entity, and will create the relationship for you.

And, to bring 2c into it, if I want to write a WHERE clause on a Doctor's Specialty, why should I care whether that column is part of a composite key?

I agree with 2d whole-heartedly, and also 2e -- I think that when it comes to "time" columns we have to be especially careful to distinguish between points in time and durations.

I'll comment on sections 3-7 tomorrow.
# May 11, 2004 11:04 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Michael - to respond to some of the points you made

You said, "why would the DoctorID be different on a Doctor or a Patient record? Shouldn't I be able to write

SELECT * FROM Doctors JOIN Patients ON (Doctor.DoctorID = Patients.DoctorID)

Isn't this clear enough?"

The type of query I envisioned when talking about the _pk and _fk suffixes was something more like this

SELECT DoctorId_Pk, DoctorId_Fk FROM Doctors, Patients

If both fields were named just DoctorId, you'd have no idea which field came from which table without using at least one alias (field or table, take your pick). I like to avoid needing and using aliases in my queries but, maybe that's just me.

Another reason for my use of _pk and _fk is to visually indicate (by seeing the suffix) that the field is a key of some kind. I've had tables before that contained over 10 foreign key fields. If I used the _fk_ suffix it was easy to see which ones were the FK fields. If I didn't, I was looking for "Id" in the field name, which was always harder to locate by just looking at the fields.

Lastly - you could still use the metadata to find all the DoctorId columns, you just wouldn't include the _Pk or _Fk suffix in your search criteria. Simply search on "%DoctorId"
# May 11, 2004 12:34 PM

Joel Ross said:

Jason,

Overall, great job. I just got done reviewing a database, and having something like this ahead of time would have been awesome.

I do agree with Alex above though. I don't like the _Pk and _Fk in the columns, because they can change. I would also say there are exceptions to the Foreign key always being named the same as the field in the lookup table. For example, if I have a table of addresses, my profile may have a mailing, shipping and billing address associated with them. In some cases it might make sense to have a many to many table between them, but in some cases it makes sense to just have three columns for MailingAddressId, ShippingAddressId and BillingAddressId, where the PK in the Addresses table might be AddressId. I would agree it should CONTAIN the name of the original field, but would add that it could have a descriptor in front of it.

I'll be using this as a reference whenever I do database design work from now on though! Great job!

Joel
# May 11, 2004 12:46 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks for the feedback Joel - that's actually a really good point you make about multiple foreign keys mapping to the same primary key. I think I'll make another rule stating that it's OK to add a descriptor in front of the Foreign key field name - I actually think I've also done that before myself so, it must've slipped my mind.

Can someone give me an example of primary or foreign key fields needing to change though? That doesn't happen very often, if ever on the databases I've designed or worked with. Maybe I just can't envision the situation that would cause that.
# May 11, 2004 12:52 PM

Joel Ross said:

Primary keys, maybe not. Foreign keys changing is unlikely, but I can see them being added - the example of a status being hard coded into the application (right or wrong) and later being added to a lookup table. I would rather just call the field status, and leave it alone.

I guess if you do your due diligence up front, you would be OK. The keys shouldn't change, and you should build all of your lookups into the database.

My biggest thing is that I just don't like typing underscores! Plus, (at least for primary keys) if the key is the singular table name with Id added, I don't see a need for the _Pk, and if it's another type of Id, then it's a foreign key. If it's a composite key, most likely it's a junction table, so you know you are dealing with composite keys. Maybe it's just me. Plus, it looks better without the underscores if you use typed datasets!

Just my two cents (again).

Joel
# May 11, 2004 1:02 PM

Gareth Rowell said:


Ommitting the name prefixes makes sense when using SQL but what about when you are using PL/SQL, VBA, perl and all the other irregularities in the world?

Thnx for addressing the topic!!
# May 11, 2004 1:32 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Gareth,
Are you talking about writing stored procs and data access code? For stored procs (PL/SQL or TSQL) it should be obvious what the entity is you're working with (field or table or other) by where it appears in the SQL statement. If you're writing VBA or Perl you really shouldn't be embedding SQL within your code anyway, it's not a good idea. I typically use an external XML file to store all my queries, which I populate doing just copy and paste from a tool like Query Analyzer or TOAD. Then, outside of data access code, you should just be accessing properties of objects and not fields directly from DataSets or Recordsets.
# May 11, 2004 2:00 PM

TrackBack said:

# May 11, 2004 4:08 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Michael - another thing I just thought about regarding the need for junction tables

What if I had a table of "Users" and a table of "Teams"...Users could be a member of many different teams. All I want is a table that allows me to store which Users are members of which teams. How would you create that table and what would you name it?
# May 11, 2004 4:53 PM

TrackBack said:

# May 11, 2004 6:46 PM

Michael Dorfman said:

Jason-- Here are some quick responses:

You said, "The type of query I envisioned when talking about the _pk and _fk suffixes was something more like this

SELECT DoctorId_Pk, DoctorId_Fk FROM Doctors, Patients "

My question is: why would you want to write a query like that? Ignoring for the moment the lack of a WHERE clause (which causes your query to output a Cartesian Product), under what conditions would you want to see the DoctorID twice? The point that I was trying to make is that DoctorID represents the same piece of information regardless of which table it happens to be attached to. When would it be useful to get this information twice?

You then write: "I like to avoid needing and using aliases in my queries but, maybe that's just me." I think that might just be you-- aliases are useful and necessary. Suppose, for a moment, that DoctorID acts as a Foreign Key in more than one table. Not an unrealistic assumption, I'd say. You now have two columns in the database named DoctorID_FK (and one named DoctorID_PK). In the event of a three-way join, we'd still need to distinguish the two DoctorID_FK columns.

What I am arguing for, in short, is domain-based naming, to call things by the names the users refer to them. If done correctly, any declarative referential integrity constraints will then resemble business rules (and be easily parsed for errors) and the queries will resemble logical questions.

In this light, I'd be asking myself what are these Users *doing* on the Teams? For example, I might name it "Assignments" (if people are assigned to the team.) Of course, just having the name of the team and the name of the User is not much--it would be more useful if I knew what actions they were performing on the team: so maybe then I would call it "Tasks", and have (in addition to the UserID and the TeamID) TaskDescription, StartDate, EstimatedCompletionDate, CompletionDate, etc.

# May 12, 2004 2:59 AM

Igor Anic said:

Good work, here are some comments:
I must disagree with inconsistent use of underscore. If you are trying to create rules your overall conventions (for all database objects) could not be: "Try to use ... as little as possible", the rule must be: "Do not use...". Later you could make exception to the rule but with the good reason. Using underscores in naming constraints is a bad decision.
When naming database column I'm traying to follow object paradigm, table is representing an object and columns are properties of that object. For example if you have an object name File then the file name is usually represented by the property Name: File.Name. It is not named FileName or File_Name or something like that. So I strongly agree with not using table names in column names. I follow the same logic for id-s, for the column which is unique identifier of the object I use the name ID (not the FileID). When that column is the foreign key in another table then I name it FileID (would be great to name it File.ID to stick with the object paradigm, but most DBMS will have extra requirements for that).
Naming ID columns is realy important because we are using them joins so it is important that thay look intuitive.
I'm using:
... File inner join Directory on File.ID = Directory.FileID ...
it looks to me little better than:
... File inner join Directory on File.FileID = Directory.FileID ...
but this has a lot of repeating information's:
... File inner join Directory on File.FileId_Pk = Directory.FileId_Fk ...

Igor
# May 12, 2004 3:27 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Michael - first of all - thanks for the answers, this is exactly the kind of stuff I had hoped for - different opinions and points of view. You make a pretty convincing argument for your rules too, I should add.

I'm starting to come around to thinking that for primary key fields, just a plain and simple field named "Id" would work, assuming it is either a surrogate key or identity key and not a field that would hold a unique text value like for state abbreviations or something like that. Then, give foreign key fields a name by concatenating the name of the table they refer to + "Id"...which I think should be enough to identify the table it refers to the "Id" column of. What do you think?

BTW - I intentionally left the WHERE clause out of the SQL example I gave in my last comment just because I was trying to illustrate a point...not that the query would actually be very useful. But I hadn't thought about the case where more than one DoctorId_Fk field might be references, so what you said I think somewhat invalidates my point.

Anyway, for the "Users" and "Teams" example - this was actually part of a system I just designed. There are certain "jobs" that run on the server. When these jobs finish running, e-mail notifications need to be sent out to certain people. They wanted a way to group the people into "Teams" so that they could just choose a Team to receive the email notifications, instead of having to choose all of the users individually. No need for additional info really, nobody is doing anything or assigned anything - just needed a way to allow easier selection of a group of people.
# May 12, 2004 3:28 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Yeah, I am starting to agree with you on that Igor - about just naming the primary or surrogate key "Id". See my comments on the blog entry that points to this article.
# May 12, 2004 3:33 AM

Mike Woodhouse said:

My general experience is that *any* standard is better than none (or four different, incompatible ones applied to the same database, as I struggle with at the moment*) and a good standard is (obviously) better yet.

I actually found little to quibble at, other than not liking having "Ck" as suffix in column names and prefix in constraints when it expands to different meanings. I know the context is different, but my poor old brain doesn't always remember to context-switch like it used to... ;-)

Would it not be more transparent to use "Ch" (or similar) for check constraints?

Mike

* but it's OK, we're fixing that: a new, "definitive" standard has been proposed (let's get back to the "tbl" prefix, yay!) and we're going to apply that to all new work. We're going to leave the existing mess as it is. My cup runneth over.
# May 12, 2004 5:19 AM

Jeff Gonzalez said:

I have to say that standard hurts my eyes. We do things in a completely different manner, but I agree with Mike, any standard is better than one.
# May 14, 2004 3:58 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Jeff - what about it hurts your eyes? What kind of standard do you employ? I'm very open to feedback on ways to improve the conventions for this.
# May 14, 2004 3:59 PM

TrackBack said:

# May 17, 2004 4:29 AM

Vlado said:

people , women just dont like to show how smart they are
# May 18, 2004 12:42 PM

Igor Anic said:

Dear Jason,
I mostly agree with your rules for naming tables, columns and stored procedures, but I see a lot of inconsistency in naming other object. For example for some objects you are suggesting prefix or suffix and for other don’t. For some you are suggestion use of the underline for others don’t. I would like to have stronger rules. This will also result in simpler and easier to remember rules. Here is my suggestion:

User prefixes for all except default database objects.
In my case default database object are tables and stored procedures.
Naming non-default database objects:

{prefix}{table name}_[{field name list}{description}{referenced table}]

Applied to an object:

Index: {idx | cidx | uidx}{table name}_field name[_{field name}...]
View: {vw}{table name}_{description}
PrimaryKey: {pk}{table name}
ForeignKey: {fk}{table name}_{referenced table name}
Check constraint: {ck}{table name}_{description}
Trigger: {trg}{table name}_{Ins | Upd | Del}

Samples:

Index: idxCustomers_FirstName_LastName
Unique index: uidxCustomers_Username
Clustered index: cidxCustomers_Username
View: vwCustomers_EastRegion
PrimaryKey: pkCustomers
ForeignKey: fkCustomers_Departments
Check constraint: ckCustomers_AccountRepID
Trigger: trgCustomers_InsUpd

Of course choosing prefixes is the matter of taste, as long as we are consistent during project.
What I'm trying to point is that we need a simple easy to remember overall rule for all objects.

Igor.
# May 21, 2004 6:54 AM

Robert Hurlbut said:

Sounds like a great read! Thanks for the review.
# May 24, 2004 8:25 PM

Aronsson said:

Does this widgets work well in ie5 ?
# May 25, 2004 10:12 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Aronsson - yes, as far as I know.
# May 27, 2004 3:42 PM

TrackBack said:

# May 27, 2004 9:04 PM

Scott C Reynolds said:

Security? or is that implied in systems engineering?
# May 31, 2004 11:50 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Scott - actually, Security was something I had been debating on in my head - whether to dedicate a department to it - or to discuss security topics as they relate to all of the other departments in their respective areas.

I could have

Database Technologies > Security
Internet Development > Security
and so on

or I could have

Security > Database Tech
Security > Internet Development
as so on.

Which would make the most sense to developers, is the question I'm trying to find the answer to.
# May 31, 2004 11:56 PM

Scott C Reynolds said:

That's a good question. To me, if I want security info, I'd like to go to Security | ?? and look at the topics within Security that apply. Could just be me though. I would think it's top-level
# June 1, 2004 12:02 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Yeah - I also think it's top-level, and after all, since this is a website, I can always add links in the Internet Development courses that point to the Security > Internet Development topics, so that they're "visible" in both places.
# June 1, 2004 12:05 AM

TrackBack said:

# June 1, 2004 5:56 PM

sadfas said:

sdfasdfasdfjleiaodsjfjlsaf
# June 3, 2004 4:58 AM

justin said:

Jason,
Here are some comments I have on your standard above. For a variation on the theme, check out my <A HREF="http://www.unc.edu/~jwatt/writings/naming_conventions.html">Essential Database Naming Conventions (and Style)</A>.
Justin


there are a number of good reasons to not pluralize table names:

consistency with primary key name:
table name: activity
primary key: activity_id

--rather than--

table name: activities
primary key: activity_id

consistancy/transparency with lookup table names:
table name: activity
lookup table: activity_type

--rather than--

table name: activities
lookup table: activity_types

more grammatical SQL:
SELECT activity.name
FROM activity
WHERE activity_id = 7;
(the select retrieves the name of a specific activity, whether or not the WHERE clause returns one or more rows. reading "activities.name" suggests a name for all activities.)

predictable alphabetical ordering of table names:
user
userRole

--rather than--

userRoles
users


There are also some good reasons to concatenate the table name on to the field name:

it avoids SQL namespace collisions
"activity_name" and "activity_order" rather than "name" and order"

it uniquely names every field name in the database, which is recommended for when using PHP, where retrieved field names become array keys to the values.

it maintains semantic transparency if you use table aliases in your SQL:
SELECT p.project_name, a.activity_name
FROM project p LEFT JOIN activity a ON p.project_id = a.project_id
WHERE p.project_name = "world domination"

--rather than--

SELECT p.name, a.name
FROM project p LEFT JOIN activity a ON p.id = a.id
WHERE p.name = "world domination"
# June 4, 2004 12:04 PM

David Kassa said:

I just wanted to say thanks for the great article! My office doesn't have any standards, and this is the best convention I have found. Hopefully we'll be adapting it.
# June 4, 2004 12:06 PM

David Kassa said:

I tend to agree with Jason on the table names, but disagree with him on the concatination of table and field name. Instead of having to use table aliases one can just use the whole table name so in Jasons example of:

SELECT p.project_name, a.activity_name
FROM project p LEFT JOIN activity a ON p.project_id = a.project_id
WHERE p.project_name = "world domination"

-- the correct second way would be: --

SELECT project.name, activity.name
FROM project p LEFT JOIN activity ON project.id = activity.id
WHERE project.name = "world domination"

This is still SHORTER then the virst version where you have to "add" p. or a.

However I have prefixed the table name to a field in the example of "Value" (value being a reserved word, otherwise requiring it to be [Value])
# June 4, 2004 12:43 PM

David Kassa said:

Sorry for the confusion, I meant Justin not Jason in my post above
# June 4, 2004 12:44 PM

justin said:

ps. the url in my comment above should have been:

http://www.unc.edu/~jwatt/writings/naming_conventions.html
# June 4, 2004 1:17 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks for the comments both David and Justin - I'll look them over and see what I can take from them and add to the standard perhaps to be v1.2.

Your feedback is appreciated guys.
# June 4, 2004 1:23 PM

TrackBack said:

# June 8, 2004 8:23 PM

TrackBack said:

# June 8, 2004 8:34 PM

Mancy said:

I need Invitation!
Thanks...
electricmancy@yahoo.com
# June 13, 2004 11:30 AM

Sonu Kapoor said:

Nice Jason! I won the other one :) Enjoy gmail.
# June 13, 2004 7:09 PM

Amen! said:

Amen, preach on! Makes me want to get out the cluebat every time.
# June 14, 2004 6:46 PM

Shannon J Hager said:

I hate that!!!!111
# June 14, 2004 7:42 PM

Jason Mauss said:

haha, Shannon - you forgot the "Shift + One" after your ones.
# June 14, 2004 7:44 PM

AT said:

Why are you asking this ??

Check out DOUBLE EXCLAMATION MARK (U+203C)
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/203C/index.htm

Or this cool one
SMALL EXCLAMATION MARK (U+FE57)
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/FE57/index.htm

Or complete list at
http://www.unicode.org/review/pr-23.html
# June 15, 2004 2:03 AM

Julie Lerman said:

well, all I can say is !!@#&!*(&!!&*@
# June 15, 2004 3:21 PM

Jason Mauss said:

does that mean you agree or disagree with me Julie?
# June 15, 2004 3:52 PM

Scott C Reynolds said:

I'm going to try to bring some people in...watch the blog.
# June 15, 2004 9:49 PM

TrackBack said:

# June 16, 2004 1:18 AM

TrackBack said:

# June 16, 2004 1:18 AM

Damien Guard said:

If the content is going to be written by volunteers I assume you'll be putting it all under some form of open licence?
# June 16, 2004 5:02 AM

Darrell said:

> One of the best articles he's written in quite a while <

Not hard, since he's written nothing but filler (see my office! Unicode like you can't find it elsewhere on the web!) for the past year or so. :)
# June 16, 2004 2:25 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Yeah, Darrell, that's true. He's written some pretty high quality articles in the past though - and without trying to sound like a Joel Fanboy here - even most of his filler articles are better than what you find elsewhere.
# June 16, 2004 2:32 PM

SBC said:

the question to ask is if API is a necessity in the age of plaforms (.NET/Java, etc). where the system landscape has width AND depth. Joel is OK in small doses.. :-)
# June 16, 2004 2:39 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Damien - that's a good question. I'd like for DevCampus to retain (and possibly share with the author?) a copyright on the lesson material/content - I'd like for the authors to be able to publish the content they write anywhere they please, since one of the advantages I think DevCampus would hold is that of all of the information would be centralized in one spot. It's something I still need to give some thought to though. Thanks for the question.
# June 16, 2004 2:44 PM

Jason Mauss said:

SBC - Isn't the same trend of breaking backwards compatibility occuring in the platforms though?
# June 16, 2004 2:57 PM

TrackBack said:

# June 20, 2004 8:10 AM

Scott C Reynolds said:

Nice to see they didn't pick the low hanging fruit this time and opt for some kind of Windows joke.
# June 20, 2004 11:14 AM

Winona said:

the Photoshop course looks interesting. what kind of material are you looking for?
# June 21, 2004 12:57 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Hi Winona - I'm mostly looking for tutorials on how to use the most commonly used features of Photoshop as well as some basic fundamental explanations of what Photoshop is capable of (in general) and then lessons on how to do those types of things. It's really pretty wide open since there is an infinite amount of things you can do with Photoshop.
# June 21, 2004 2:36 AM

TrackBack said:

# June 21, 2004 4:08 PM

TrackBack said:

# June 21, 2004 4:10 PM

Paul Bartlett said:

Nothing to do with the rest of the post, but my personal favourite of the family is the one mentioned in the mixed proverb:

- "Necessity is the mother of strange bedfellows"
# June 22, 2004 7:50 AM

Scott C Reynolds said:

Awesome links. Thanks.
# June 22, 2004 11:16 AM

Patrik Dahlén said:

I would like an invitation. :)

patrik@pdc.se
# June 23, 2004 2:58 AM

Hakan said:

I would be glad to enter the orkut as an engineer member, i really want to know what actually it is...

hakantoz@yahoo.com

Thanks for your time...
# June 23, 2004 10:31 AM

TrackBack said:

# June 25, 2004 12:51 AM

TrackBack said:

# June 25, 2004 12:54 AM

TrackBack said:

# June 30, 2004 4:30 PM

TrackBack said:

# July 1, 2004 10:05 PM

Laurent Kempé said:

This is one of the reason I am using XML content.
# July 7, 2004 5:30 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Laurent,
So what do you do? Store the article content in XML files? Do you reference the XML files in the database somewhere?
# July 7, 2004 5:32 AM

Scott C Reynolds said:

XML could work here, if you have the storage for the files, but the database might be faster. Either way, just "using XML" doesn't really solve the problem, you still need to do something about the pagination.

What about setting a special pagebreak tag in the text, like %break% or something. When you read the data out, you chunk it between the tags, holding either the remainder of the article in memory, or a reference to which break you were on. Yes, parsing it this way could have a potential slowdown, but not so much I think that it would be all that noticeable.
# July 7, 2004 10:54 AM

Scott C Reynolds said:

and then I realized that I typed all that before reading the end of the last paragraph, where you said the exact same thing :)
# July 7, 2004 10:55 AM

Scott C Reynolds said:

So the other thing is, if you just want to do it dynamically, you sort of go with your first idea, which is set the number of characters on a page, or bytes, or whatever metric. Then, you start at that location and work your way forward or backward until you find a section or paragraph break, and decide which is the shortest distance. This would require a standard paragraph break sequence, could be newline newline or br br, and a standard tag for section header. but this way regardless of content changes you can manage the page breaks based on size and then take another step to ensure that you aren't cutting words or paragraphs.

I might have 15 more ideas after I finish my coffee.
# July 7, 2004 10:59 AM

Josh said:

Jason,

I agree that side projects are fun and very useful for trying out stuff that you might not get a chance to do at work. However, I believe that for beginners, it is hard to find projects that are fun, interesting and challenging, but not so challenging that it becomes frustrating. For example, a beginner might have this great idea to create an ASP.NET/C# data-driven Web site that contains lots of information, but have no idea how to get from here to there. For this group of people, the challenge is to create those little projects that can hold their interest while building on their skills from one project to the next.
# July 8, 2004 2:56 PM

melissa said:

duranmelisa@hotmail.com

i am an already yonja member. and i ve enjoyed it so much till now.

but i think i am ready for the orkut membership. please let me be one. thank you
# July 8, 2004 8:56 PM

bob horn said:

That's what you get for foolin around with VB6!! :-)

I would assume you wouldn't be if it wasn't for existing code or client requirements.
# July 12, 2004 6:30 PM

Duncan said:

Do you want to set the default printer for *all applications* on the machine?

To just set the default for your VB app use:-

Dim p as VB.Printer
For Each p In VB.Printers
If p.DeviceName = “ThePrinterIWantToBeTheDefault“ Then
Set Printer = p
End If
Next

# July 13, 2004 6:07 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Duncan,
Actually - I don't want to set the default printer for all applications - I need to set the default printer to one of any number of printers - depending on which printer was chosen for a certain document. The WSHNetwork object comes in handy.
# July 13, 2004 6:09 AM

Ryan Farley said:

Jason, classic tie-in from Office Space. That one had me rolling.
# July 14, 2004 2:24 PM

William Luu said:

Hi Jason, good tip. I might try to find that book.

I do agree with you though, Javascript isn't going away quickly.

The following site is also a good place for learning JavaScript and CSS: http://www.quirksmode.org

I'm currently doing some development work using ASP.NET/C#, and find myself having to jump back into a bit of JavaScript here and there.
# July 15, 2004 12:36 AM

Richard Callaby said:

I agree with you. This is really getting insane with the amount of effort we are wasting on arguing on who's technology is better or worse. Basically a language is a tool. Now some tools are better suited to specific tasks than others. Who would pound nails in with a bandsaw? Not many. But you could and destroy the bandsaw in the process but it would get the job done. I have a more detailed explaination of how I feel on these idiotic endevours on my blog at
http://blog.richard-callaby.net/PermaLink.aspx?guid=d135611d-8c50-43e1-a25e-a88a3b8d4f8f
This is ofcourse just my 2 cents on the matter.
# July 19, 2004 10:42 AM

hashi said:

heh... i once did a contract with aol ... and was stuck with it for a year
# July 24, 2004 12:31 PM

tony summerfelt said:

on win2k it requires .net...100meg email client isn't quite what i had in mind
# July 25, 2004 5:02 PM

ClarkDBA said:

While each of these naming suggestions have their plusses and minuses, when starting a new project, any naming convention is better than none at all. While agree on some of these and disagree on a few others, the main point one should consider is this - be consistent! Doing things the same way over and over is important throughout the project.
# July 27, 2004 2:56 PM

jhonny said:

my aol si so slow what i do bout it
# July 29, 2004 2:26 AM

Sally said:

Im am only 8 and i Want a Job i want to get paid and i want it Fast
# July 30, 2004 10:19 AM

Maisha said:

I am only 8 and i want a job i want to get paid and i want it fast
# July 30, 2004 10:23 AM

Neil Burnett said:

Just a couple of comments from my own experiences:

Often in the life of a database, I need to split a table into several tables. Reasons could be normalising an un-normalised table, adding multilingual capability or simply adding a one-to-one table with an attribute that only some of the rows can have.

This means I would rename the tables appropriately, but create a view with the original table name so that any existing applications will still work until I get around to implementing the new functionality.

The relational model is big on the separation of logical and physical data. An intention is that the underlying physical representation of the data can change without breaking applications. Any naming convention that has the inclusion of physical information about an object will therefore contravene the spirit of the model. It - the convention - will also be broken in the not unusual cases I mention above.

This also applies to adding descriptive information to column names. It would be better to use a short version of the domain name if possible, but I haven't worked that part through yet.

Having said all that, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. My own conventions are in a state of chaos - that's why I am reading yours:-)
# August 1, 2004 6:01 AM

Jon Galloway said:

I've been using the Enkoder for a while: http://automaticlabs.com/products/enkoderform/

It's the same kind of idea as you're describing, but it takes the extra step of encoding the e-mail address.
# August 6, 2004 1:52 AM

Mark said:

I would say it's almost a neccessity to prefix views in some way. From my own experience I was debugging someone else's code and it turned out the developer was trying to update a view which had been named without a prefix and looked like a genuine table name!

Now, just to be awkward, I have read in some security articles concerning web based applications that, as an added precaution, in case the database is compromised, tables containing sensitive data should not be named with what they represent e.g. customer account information should not be named CustomerAccount but given some boring name (PaintDrying perhaps?). This will make the SQL less readable, and, of course, you can't rely on security through obscurity, but it's something to consider.

However, I will be adopting the majority of these conventions for my company in the near future. Thanks.
# August 6, 2004 7:36 AM

TrackBack said:

# August 6, 2004 5:13 PM

Doug Reilly said:

Personally, Essential ASP.NET (choose your language preference) and Code Complete 2ed (though this is a tough choice over Coder to Developer, another book I am quite fond of).
# August 19, 2004 1:07 PM

Dennis said:

If you want to really stretch your mind: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. Only programming book I've ever seen that I would describe as profound.
# August 19, 2004 1:48 PM

Scott said:

Domain Driven Design - Eric Evans.

Why? Martin Fowler recommends it. I've got it, very architect driven book. Good.

Code by Charles Petzold.

I've got Essential ASP.NET in C# by F. Onion. Great book.
# August 19, 2004 3:45 PM

Geoff Appleby said:

Public Class Foo

Private mBar As String
Private mFnord As String

Public Sub New()
'initialisation code
End Sub

Public Sub New(ByVal bar As String)
Me.New()
mBar = bar
End Sub

Public Sub New(ByVal bar As String, ByVal fnord As String)
Me.New(bar)
mFnord = fnord
End Sub
End Class

The same as calling any other function, so long as you pass a set of parameters that match a known signature, it will call the right overload.

But the specific thing you were after was the 'Me.New()' calls.
# August 23, 2004 12:13 AM

Geoff Appleby said:

Sorry for the lack of formatting...
# August 23, 2004 12:13 AM

Derick Bailey said:

I agree with Geoff. I do this a lot - sure makes it easier to overload constructors.
# August 23, 2004 10:09 AM

Joakim said:

A nice feature of the way VB.Net is doing it is that you can decide when to call the other constructor. One of few things I like better with VB.Net!
# August 23, 2004 2:33 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Yeah Joakim, I agree. VB.NET's way seems more flexible than C#'s. I actually thought just calling Me.New might be the way to do it - but wasn't sure. I thought maybe there was a special syntax for it the way there is in C#.
# August 23, 2004 2:35 PM

kenny said:

vars out of scope after GO
# August 27, 2004 1:38 PM

Darron said:

What if the row with Id = @PositionId doesn't exist....

you won't get an exception, just a rowcount of zero rows affected.
# August 27, 2004 1:39 PM

Jason Mauss said:

kenny got the real issue - which will keep it from compiling.

'GO' separates batches so, after

SET NOCOUNT ON
GO

SQL Server interprets the rest as a separate batch, with @PositionValue and @PositionId not being declared anywhere.
# August 27, 2004 1:44 PM

Darron said:

Yeah, I saw that just after I posted. Too bad you can't edit a comment.
# August 27, 2004 1:54 PM

Alex Papadimoulis said:

Your primary key isn't named PK_Col_Int_Identity_Id!
# August 28, 2004 8:55 PM

Karl said:

A text locale variable is implictly created and assigned the value of true/false...neither having a text variable nor assigning to it is legal....and your udf has to end with a select...
# August 30, 2004 7:50 PM

Karl said:

bah..local
# August 30, 2004 7:50 PM

Karl said:

sob, has to end with a return...i give up...
# August 30, 2004 8:15 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Karl - I think you alluded to the right answer in your first response. You can't assign to a text variable which you're doing implicitly by

RETURN 'False'

and

RETURN 'True'

You also caught the fact that your udf has to end with the 'RETURN' statement.

good job.
# August 30, 2004 8:18 PM

Darrell said:

Are you relatively new to unit testing? I've been debating whether to buy the Pragmatic Unit Testing book because I'm afraid it would be a little too basic. Any thoughts?
# August 30, 2004 9:13 PM

Jerry Pisk said:

There's also another problem - your function (if it managed to return the text value) would return 'True' if you passed it NULL, which is probably not exactly what you would expect.
# August 30, 2004 10:24 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Hi Darrell,
I would say yes, I'm pretty new to unit testing. I'd read over the concepts before but never done any real hands-on unit testing. I've found the Pragmatic Unit Testing book not only to be a good introduction to unit testing but, also a good kick-start on using NUnit and how to conceptually approach developing unit tests for your code. In other words, it provides some brain-teaser type exercises and practices so that you actually come away thinking more like a unit tester, rather than just a coder/developer.
# August 30, 2004 10:53 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Here is - (including Jerry's good catch of the possibility of NULL being passed in) -what I would modify the original T-SQL to:

CREATE FUNCTION GetBooleanTextFromInt (@num1 int)
RETURNS char(5)
AS
BEGIN
DECLARE @ReturnText char(5)
IF (@num1 = 0)
BEGIN
SET @ReturnText = 'False'
END
ELSE
IF @num1 IS NULL
BEGIN
SET @ReturnText = 'False'
END
ELSE
If @num1 <> 0
SET @ReturnText = 'True'
RETURN @ReturnText
END
# August 30, 2004 11:09 PM

Darrell said:

Cool, maybe I'll check it out! Thanks for the rundown. :)
# August 31, 2004 10:15 AM

Darrell said:

Code Complete 2, if it is anything like the first (I own it, but haven't read it) will be great.

I wasn't big on Coding Slave. I borrowed it from a friend and read it in a couple of nights, but I'm just not seeing the impact that all these other people are. Maybe I'm missing something.

DDD as Scott mentioned is great. If you haven't read Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture by Fowler, definitely pick that up too!
# August 31, 2004 10:20 AM

Jim Arnold said:

Mocks aren't just for imitating 'expensive' resources like databases or file-systems. They allow you to test the actual interactions an object has with other objects (as opposed to state-based testing, which just checks the result of those interactions). Additionally, unit tests become more targeted, as you tend to focus on the behaviour of one class at a time rather than a 'cluster' of related classes. I would recommend www.mockobjects.com or nmock.org for some examples.

Jim
# August 31, 2004 2:48 PM

Paul Schaeflein said:

October's MSDN Magazine has an article discussing mock objects.
# August 31, 2004 3:25 PM

Frans Bouma said:

mockobjects are there to fully utilize TDD: you test your design with mock objects before you implement it, which is the best way to approach it.

After the unit tests with the mock objects work, you know your design is ok, and you can replace the mock objects one by one with your real code, always falling back on the unit tests to see if you're doing your job properly. After all the mock objects are replaced with your real code and your tests still work, you're done. :)
# August 31, 2004 3:31 PM

TrackBack said:

# August 31, 2004 4:52 PM

Paul D. Murphy said:


You also have to consider scenarios like asp.net server controls. Inside of a unit test you won't have a HttpContext. With mock objects you can fake these elements and still test a control.

# August 31, 2004 11:01 PM

Matt Berther said:

Jason,

We researched this a while back, and ultimately decided that Xheo was the best choice.

Xheo has done everything that we needed and would easily fit all of your requirements...

Feel free to drop me an emaill at matt.berther at gmail dot com if you want to discuss feature sets...
# September 2, 2004 12:24 AM

Darrell said:

It depends. At my old job, we had one (total) SourceSafe repository for all our projects, and then a separate one for common libraries and old archived projects. That allowed for different backup policies which was great since we didn't control the server environment. :)
# September 3, 2004 9:06 PM

Chris Sells said:

I'm pretty sure Amazon.com still has a few left...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0321116208
# September 7, 2004 10:13 PM

Darrell said:

I would also add the following:

- Don't run out of disk space when using VSS. It corrupts whatever it is working on and then some.

- A VSS database slows down considerably once it hits 4GB, so separate VSS repositories for large projects is the way to go.

- Make it a best practice to get the latest version of the whole solution and build/unit test before you checkin. This prevents broken builds.

- When you are running the analyze script, make sure to clean out the temp directory first. It greatly reduces the amount of time it takes analyze to run.

- Make sure everyone synchs their computer clocks to the same sntp server. SourceSafe uses each computer's local clocks instead of a server clock, so if someone is ahead by 10 minutes and they checkin, you won't get their changes for 10 more minutes. I.e., from the command line "net time /setsntp:\\COMPUTERNAME /set /y" should do it without intervention.
# September 17, 2004 10:49 AM

Darrell said:

Oh, and my comment wasn't to say you didn't write an excellent blog post!
# September 17, 2004 10:51 AM

Aviv Raff said:

How about ".KueRy"?
# October 24, 2004 9:46 AM

Bob said:

:bows: my favorite line is 'His only-known weakness is that you can stick a piece of tape under his mouse and he'll be helpless for days'

I am going to make that my sig line at work.
# November 9, 2004 12:06 AM

Bob said:

How about .Not Slow like SQL 2005's Gui? ;)
# November 9, 2004 12:30 AM

i/Noodle said:

Heheheh very funny and well written:)
I've certainly had to deal with these types. SuperFalseTechnologyTruthsBelieverMan is usually the one I end up wanting to attack mid-meeting. Not sure of the best name for them, but ScheduleAnotherMeetingMan is one I've had to deal with too - you've just spent an hour going through the details of some obscure requirement which is only to be applied when venus is in alignment with orion or something, and everyone finally agrees about it, and then SAMM says 'ok great, lets arrange another meeting next week to discuss it'. Aaaaaarrrggh. No, lets agree NOW... I only have 1 year of my life to devote to this project, it would be nice to document the requirements at least a week before the project completion date.
i/Noodle.

http://intravenous.info
# November 9, 2004 7:47 AM

TrackBack said:

# November 9, 2004 3:31 PM

Pete said:

What about ObscureScenarioman (OSM). OSM is able to introduce scenarios that are critical to the success of the projct, and, if catered for, will also save the world from famine, but have the probability of occurring close to that of the invasion of earth by alien green mutant flamingos.

He can often be heard saying "but have you thought of", or "but it wont work if..", or "I still think we need to cater for...."

OSM is satisfied if his requirements mean an additional 30% of code/time/sweat/thinking - anything else and "you havent really thought it through"
# November 9, 2004 8:50 PM

Bill said:

What a Cool Post! I think i know all of those dudes.
# November 10, 2004 1:50 AM

TrackBack said:

# November 10, 2004 5:01 AM

Peter said:

May I add a couple to the stew?

MrExceptionMan: obsesses about odd boundary conditions to the exclusion of 99.9% of the system and/or data. This guy is real close to ARM. Rather than figure out why that SQL query returns the wrong data, he spent all day running the profiler to make it run faster, because it runs real slow on Tuesdays.

MrKnowItAll: you've seen Cliff Claven on Cheers, now see him in your cubicle. "Did you know that a butterfly beating its wings in China can cause a storm here in the states?" Some of these guys are serial yakkers. Like if you taped their mouth closed, their head would explode from the pressure.

MrExcuseMan: the cat ate his homework. really. Has at least one excuse for everything. "Late? That d**d butterfly made it rain on my way into work." Some folks use the F* word like its punctuation or something, this guy uses "because" instead.

MrOneUpManShipMan: If you did something, he did it bigger, longer ago or.... You've seen the Dilbert cartoon where 3 guys are sitting around the table:
Dilbert: I got a paper cut on my finger over the weekend.
Wally: I cut my hand over the weekend.
MrOUMSM: I cut my head off over the weekend

But I could be wrong, I might be describing different symptoms of incompetant people. You know the ones who keep talking so that you won't notice what isn't getting done? Sort of like the way a magician wiggles one hand so you won't observe the real (in)action?
# November 10, 2004 9:35 AM

Jason Mauss said:

hahah Peter...MrOneUpManShipMan ...that was great. I think I know a couple of those guys.
# November 10, 2004 1:48 PM

Gabe Halsmer said:


But then why do developers take risks like that? Is it because they have no other choice? So you work really hard, hoping your employer will find you work valuable. Even if they do, does that mean they'll reward you? Well its up to the employer and their self-interest. If you prove yourself to be competent and valuable, then usually they will reward you to keep you happy and working for them on future projects. There are some short-sighted managers who can't resist saving a buck, but you get what you pay for.. They'll never control a team of comptent developers for very long.

So don't feel sorry for youself. The manager/employee relationship works both ways. You are equals trading value for value. And this trade works best when both sides are honest with each other.

# November 11, 2004 1:53 PM

Jason Mauss said:

I agree (mostly) w/ you Gabe. Do you think EA is being honest w/ their employees? Far from it.
# November 11, 2004 2:01 PM

Scott C Reynolds said:

I'm wit' ya homie. The problem is a lot of developers can't stand up for themselves (or at least don't feel like they can) in the post-dot-com-job-loss-trauma era. So they take what they can get because at least they're working, and we all know at least one guy who still can't seem to find a good gig.

The thing is we are all replaceable in some form or another, but the real measure is how much value can you get from your employer before he decides it's easier to replace you than meet your expectations. Fine line to try to find.

Nice touch on the 1337. j00 t0t4lly pwnz0red teh n00bz :D
# November 11, 2004 3:12 PM

Ryan M Jentzsch said:

This has always been a matter of economy. I remember the post dot-com-bomb days where I went from company to company and better offer to better offer, (until I realized that doing things as a consultant is a better way to slither around like a snake with it's head cut off). Companies had no loyality to me or I to them. They were and still are focused on the bottom line not on employees needs or concerns. Employees are looked at as a libility and a nesicary evil.

Anyway, employers will abuse and take advantage of employees when jobs are scarce and employees have a family to feed. Thankfully the economy is changing. 4 key people in my department have left to other companys with better offers because they are sick of the crap and I'm looking as well. (I may start a consultancy again, if people can forget and realize I had nothing to do with their dot-com-bomb losses).

So now it's payback time and an unabashed counter attack-- (sorry to hear that I left you with the web project half done, but you certainly didn't reward me for my hard work or even say "thanks", so employers guess what: You reap what you sow...)

Thanks for your post.

# November 11, 2004 7:44 PM

Ryan M Jentzsch said:

KR Dispatch or
Knowlege Relay Dispatch Query

I looked in the thesarus (is that how thesarus is spelled?) to see alternate words for Relay.

Good luck with your new product!
# November 11, 2004 7:58 PM

Ryan M Jentzsch said:

ROTFLMAO

THANKS! I needed this laugh!

and BTW and FYI, after reading your post: "whoa...I know kung fu"
# November 11, 2004 8:09 PM

John said:

guess what? THOUSANDS of programmers in India, Pakistan, Phillippines, etc. would LOVE to take those hours (with they pay associated) and do it. Hard to take? You bet. Find a different job, but keep your eye on the competition out there....
# November 12, 2004 11:08 AM

Dave Burke said:

The Grind has been my favorite feed for over a year now. I never miss it. Thanks for posting about it.
# November 13, 2004 12:49 AM

Darrell said:

"never makes more out of the news than there actually is" - amen to that. Some call it cynical, I call it not buying-in to the emotion for (MSDN Mag) or against (Slashdot) either way. :)
# November 14, 2004 12:25 PM

Eminem said:

Sup, I'm learning to play.
# November 15, 2004 12:01 AM

Dean Harding said:

Are you using .NET? Why not just use binary serialization? It's quick, it's easy, and you don't have to write any additional code! Versioning is more difficult, though not impossible (and even easier come .NET 2.0 with the "versioning tolerant" formatter).
# November 30, 2004 1:00 AM

Dean Harding said:

Heh, obviously you are using .NET, since it's going to be a WinForms user control :-)
# November 30, 2004 1:01 AM

Joe Geary said:

I've recently had to make the change from a SQL Server shop to Oracle... We use a product called pl/sql developer that I found to be close enough to Query Analyzer / Enterprise Manager. It definitely has made my transition a lot easier.

www.allroundautomations.nl
# November 30, 2004 9:49 AM

chornbe said:

I like Dean's suggestion for two reasons:

1. speed - it's fast, it's light
2. ease - it's done and working fine in .NET since birth.

The reasons I don't like it are few, but in my opinion, worth weighing heavily. They may not factor into your design, so this could be a solution for you.

1. At some point you *will* need/want to tweak the persisted data for problem resolution, non-compile tweak, spec-change, etc. Can't do that in bin-persists

2. It couples the output tightly to .NET-only implementations. There *might* be a point where you want to trade that information with java, python or (goodness forbid) Perl systems and you'll end up doing something else anyway.

3. With XML and its human-readable format, you have built-in ability to debug issues at the data-persistence level.
# December 11, 2004 4:02 PM

Anon said:

My home page is about:blank, even faster than google.

MSN Search ... lol

Using a site search with google on MSDN is top notch.
# December 13, 2004 2:57 PM

Robert Scoble said:

Thanks for the feedback about the videos. I, as a rule, try not to edit. It removes the believeability. The videos probably aren't for you. They are for people who want to know as much about the team and the product as possible. I want the experience to be as close as possible to just coming in and having a chat with the team. If I edit that all down it totally changes what it's about.

That's why their marketing team does a Web site as well -- so that people who don't have the 50 minutes to spend can get the facts quickly and efficiently about the product.

By the way, there ARE tons of people who are interested enough to sit through a demo like this. My wife runs webcasts for MSDN. They are almost always an hour. Yet sometimes she has thousands of people in the room watching.
# December 13, 2004 3:06 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Robert,
I've found a lot of the video's on Channel 9 interesting...I just care more about what the people have to say, not really who they are and what they do (especially when it's not related to the subject of the video)...I like to watch as many Ch. 9 vid clips as I can but, when I'm busy during the day, getting as much info from them in as little time possible is a big factor. For example...the video for the MSN search thing is 52 minutes. That's my entire lunch hour...

Maybe another video clip that's just the meat of the subject (5 to 10 minutes of the demo of the new tool) would be valuble.

What's the marketing teams' website, btw?
# December 13, 2004 3:11 PM

chornbe said:

Yeah, I saw it (and responded). Good article!
# December 13, 2004 3:37 PM

chornbe said:

Google has a new search tool in beta... Google: Suggest

Check it out at:

http://www.google.com/webhp?complete=1&hl=en

Best. Tool. Ever.
# December 13, 2004 3:39 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Hey Chris,
Yeah, I saw your comment on there. That Job Engine framework you've built sounds pretty interesting. Have any more details about it somewhere I could read?
# December 13, 2004 3:39 PM

Jason Mauss said:

I don't know about "Best. Tool. Ever." but, yeah, it's pretty sweet...that's why I mentioned it in my post ;)
# December 13, 2004 3:40 PM

Robert Scoble said:

The "official" marketing team did this site: http://beta.toolbar.msn.com/

Check out the tour. It shows you the highlights.

And, you know, you can always skip ahead in the video. You can also speed it up to skip faster through it.
# December 13, 2004 3:45 PM

Robert Scoble said:

Also, I just timed the introductions. They were about two minutes out of the 50-minute video. Were you watching the Silicon Valley one? That's the one that has the demo and is decent after you get a couple of minutes into it.
# December 13, 2004 3:47 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks for the link Robert....that site had the info I wanted, rather than the Ch. 9 video.

guess it's just a matter of finding the right location that gives you what you want.

Still think you could offer "alternate" clips of some of the vids on Ch. 9 though...certain sections only or something maybe.

I'm sure that stuff takes a lot of your time already as it is though. Just a thought.
# December 13, 2004 3:51 PM

Josh said:

I think the big deal from today is the fact that they've included desktop search as part of the toolbar. Sure, they're copying Google here, but it does look like a useful tool. Of course, this wouldn't have been needed if the existing search capabilities within Windows and Outlook were better.
# December 13, 2004 3:54 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Robert,
Yes, I was watching the Silicon Valley one. I think it was about 5 minutes into it when I felt like they hadn't shown the meat of the features yet and closed it. The marketing teams website showed all the features I cared to see though, so that satisfied what little curiosity I had. Thanks.
# December 13, 2004 3:59 PM

Darrell said:

>> I don't think I've ever personally seen such blatant "let's try to keep up" efforts at Microsoft to follow a single company like they've been with Google <<

Um, hello Netscape (IE)? What about Java (.NET)? And Cold Fusion (ASP)? Dude, it's Microsoft's business model to do what they're doing. :)
# December 13, 2004 4:04 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Darrell,
Although I don't want to turn this into a anti-fan-boy-bash-fest or anything...I figured it was just common knowledge that Microsoft made all those copies you mentioned. I'm just trying to say...usually Microsoft makes what they copy "BETTER" than the original. The copying of Google's stuff doesn't seem to be any better at all. I feel like .NET is better than Java in many regards, same with ASP to CF and IE to Netscape. I guess time will tell but, I don't get the feeling they can out-do Google at their own game.
# December 13, 2004 4:07 PM

AndrewSeven said:

I used the hidden frame techinique in Nutscrape 4.04 and IE 4 to enable "instant" product code validation and the ever-classic cascading drop down list.
And I did it in six feet of snow, uphill in both directions.


We built a whole app when IE5 came out that used msxml http requests to fetch xml from the server to perform client-side xml transforms ;)


http://weblogs.asp.net/andrewseven/articles/IOpineTarget.aspx
# December 13, 2004 4:44 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Andrew is teh 1337 XmlHttpRequest hax0r.

seriously though, that's pretty cool.
# December 13, 2004 4:58 PM

Scott C Reynolds said:

...
wouldn't the geek *implement* IEarth? Or are you just flaunting naming conventions?

of course if you look at "the geek" as an object, it doesn't seem like it would be resonable for them to inherit from the Earth object. Or implement an IEarth interface for that matter.

I'm going to inherit a good butt kicking if I can't keep my sarcastic tendencies in check aren't I?
# December 13, 2004 9:47 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Let me check.

Yes, yes you will.

But yeah, thanks for pointing out that Interfaces are implemented, not inherited. Cause I didn't know that.

</sarcasm> ;)
# December 13, 2004 11:06 PM

chornbe said:

> " I don't know about "Best. Tool. Ever." but, yeah, it's pretty sweet...that's why I mentioned it in my post ;)"

Ok, perhaps not *best*, ever. That would have to be the Leatherman Classic, but you get the idea ;)
# December 13, 2004 11:24 PM

chornbe said:

As one technical professional to another, I think I could see to it that some of the code made its way to you - as an academic excercise only, of course. :) hit me up at chris at chornbe dot come with an email address to get it to you.

It's kind of light on docs. It's a small team (read as: me and one other guy) supporting it, but I've got about 8 billion dollars worth of customer money being processed on it.

So, it's got some exposure in house.
# December 13, 2004 11:27 PM

Mark said:

So maybe just change it to "CEarth", and get the other geeks off your back :)
# December 14, 2004 12:15 AM

TrackBack said:

# December 14, 2004 6:28 AM

James Geurts said:

The treeview control in Whidbey uses the XmlHttpRequest technique, so if Whidbey ever ships :), more web developers should be using this...

# December 14, 2004 9:14 AM

chornbe said:

When talking about the graphics, I would start with the traditional model of l would start with the time honored tradition of clickable thumbnails. I'm guessing you're doing it in C#. You could use the GDI classes to actually generate them on the fly (or on first click) if you wanted. Dog simple in .NET.

As for layout, CSS and identified entities are your friend. I'm using a lot of CSS for layout on my site and keeping the markup pretty clean and conventional. You can do some really sweet stuff with CSS these days.

I'd do a very basic and traditional model of :

Here's us. -> general info
Here's our staff. -> bio-type data
Here are our listings. -> overview of the listings, per ZIP code, city, state, etc.

Search for listings -> use an additive AND method of building up your searches, not OR. You don't want people to put in "4 bdrm" and "deck" and get every house that has a deck, regardless of number of bedrooms plus every house with 4 bedrooms, regardless of its deck. Typical stuff there.

Also, use some logic to parse up the search strings and standardize them where possible. For instance "4 bedroom" should probably be parsed/converted to int.parse("4") + "bdrm", or such. That could get tricky, but a "search tips" clickable (with POPUP!) very prominently displayed will help. I don't like navigating OFF a page when asking for help on that page. that is the ONE AND ONLY viable use of Popups, IMHO.

Your realestate friend should have a decent list of the industry buzzwords for you. Simple regex/text substitution should work well there for the simpler stuff.

hmm... wow, thinking on it now I've got all kinds of stuff floating thru' my head. Stop making me do that! I have enough work to do :)

If you're looking for some off-hours help, I could toss my hat in the ring. I'm always looking for new work.
# December 18, 2004 9:57 PM

chornbe said:

Wow. My first sentense sure doesn't do much to open up that conversation, now does it! Sheesh. Sorry.
# December 18, 2004 9:58 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Chris, - actually, the listing search would be driven by some drop-downs on it's own page. A drop-down for # of bedrooms, price range, features, etc. That way I don't need to come up with advanced parsing logic for what the person enters.

One thing I'll have to clairfy with them though, is if they simply want a search like

<select>
<option>2</option>
<option>3</option>
<option>4</option>
....etc....
</select>

or

<select>
<option>3</option>
<option>3 or more</option>
<option>4</option>
<option>4 or more</option>
...etc....
</select>

And as far as graphics go, I actually already had the dynamic thumbnails in mind w/ GDI+ (something I've actually done before)...I was speaking more in terms of the type of header image and colors that appeal to people looking to buy/sell homes and what works best with pictures of homes, interiors, etc. I've seen some sites that are really nice looking that have background images of nicely landscaped yards, etc.
# December 18, 2004 10:50 PM

chornbe said:

Ah, gotcha. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

I can tell you this. I just bought a place a few months ago. For many, many months prior to locking in on having this place built, we were looking... and looking... and looking.

I found most websites followed the creedo of "when I don't have any valuable information, I'll inundate them with graphics".

I'm a big believer (when designing business sites) in the idea that "less is more". Fewer graphics to construct the site. As I mentioned you can do as much with well-thought markup and styling as you often can with graphics. If I have to wait for a series of pictures to load, I'd MUCH rather it be on contextual content rather than page filler.

Now, again speaking from *MY* perspective, I do not enjoy reading long text on screen. so, if you want to have the option of long descriptive text, provide a printable and clickable style sheet and/or alternate page. People who are driving around looking at stuff probably need all that stuff that gets chopped off.

Also, figure that anyone looking for a house has got their coffee and snacks right there and will probably be at least a couple of hours at a sitting. Shy away from harsh contrasts and eye-popping colors. Try a silver or tan background. Stay away from pure white but also try to keep *some* contrast. For my site I use black text on standard html silver background and it works pretty well. I also use black text on standard html "tan" and that's pretty pleasing too. I use white text over a standard html "darkblue" for my menu bar and other *small* areas of page-level contrast. It catches the eye and separates the page nicely without being harsh.

If you want verification, look at the average news paper. The paper is far closer to grey or slate than it is to white. If it was pure white, you're eyes would bleed long before you got to the movie listings :) They do actually think about that when they're pressing the paper. It's a beneficial side effect of recycling paper. In certain applications, there's no need to bleach it.

Another thing I'd shy away from is popups. Page help/info is good. Zoomed images are good. All else is bad. Popups are distracting to the user experience just like harsh colors or slow loading over-used graphics.

I never found the 360 degree poorly glued panoramic interior scenes any useful at all. THey give absolutely no real "feel" for how big the rooms are, so don't get caught in that trap. Houses photograph well from the outside and *things* photograph well inside. If there are special features of the house - a fire place, a lion's paw tub, a certain style of floor ing or hardwood trim - by all means feature that in pictures. But just photographing the interior just to have it there will be distracting and misleading. I'm sure if you look thru' some family photos from when you were a kid or even more recently you'll say to yourself "wait, that room was bigger than that" or something. Square rooms in the interior of a house are the hardest thing in the world to accurately photograph for size, perspective and relative "feel".

Also, use cookies to "remember me" for certain information. When I want information on 10 listings, please don't ask me for my email address, phone number and name ten different times, but also don't make me use check boxes and "all at once" them, either. I'm browsing. Make it easy for me to "click" to add it to the ones I want information on.

Don't over do the asking of demographic or detailed contact information. I'm using the web to look because I'm browsing with low pressure. Believe me when I say the quickest way to chase "me" off your site (and others will vary), is to force me in to giving you lots of info before i'm ready to talk. For me, I look around and get to a "ok, now I'm ready to talk to a person" point. In the info gathering, take enough info from me that someone won't be calling to ask me " ok then, what did you want to look at?", but don't get any financial, familial or over-detailed information. I'll tell you the listings I want to know about (and by all means, please do have that ready when you call!!) I'll provide you my name, email address and my relelvant phone numbers. At this point you don't really *need* my current address. If I choose to give it, fine, but don't force me.

I want some biographical background (as it relates to business) of the key people in the office, but I don't want it to sound like bragging. Number of years is good, types of houses and general geography is good. I don't really care that he average price of a house that you've sold is $1.2m. All I care about is the house i'm selling and the house I'm buying. Text should be worded in such a way that I feel like you're talking to me and ready to deal with ME, not just "another guy buying a house". We all know that in the end that's all I am, but that first hook goes a long way to keeping me intrested.

In short, friendly site, no overly harsh colors, light on the graphics except where they pertain to what I'm looking for and don't force me to give up too much information just yet. There's plenty of time for that later.

Oh, and when I "click for more information", just give me the information, don't force me to call or be called.

Tell you what, just this page is a good example of some very good things. You've got the grey border and the slate? left menu. Which is lower contrast and pleasing. But this white section could get a little harsh after an hour of browsing.
# December 19, 2004 7:26 AM

chornbe said:

Oh, and for goodness sakes, do NOT take up a 1/3 of every page with a press photo of the agent. That belongs in bio data, NOT on every page. It's annoying and intrusive.
# December 19, 2004 7:33 AM

Tommi said:

Another good place to start is .. competition :D. Check out how other real estate websites we're done, what's good, what's bad with them. That should give you plenty of ideas.
# December 19, 2004 8:16 AM

Scott C Reynolds said:

I did a couple real estate sites way back in the day. What I learned: Real Estate people will eschew what you would think of as good or proper design in favor of loading the thing down with pictures. It's all about the pictures. And an image of the agent. That's always the top goal.

My advice, find a way to use the good image manipulation capabilities of .net to present pictures in thumbnails for many on a page, high resolution for individuals, and work the entire site around the property image galleries.
# December 20, 2004 10:19 AM

Vol(o) said:

Spyware? Nothing should be listening on port 80 except a web server...
# December 20, 2004 4:09 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Yeah, I'm not sure if it's spyware or not, and I'm a little hesitant to install and run something like AdAware on a production web-server.
# December 20, 2004 4:26 PM

Thomas Tomiczek said:

::and I'm a little hesitant to install and run something like AdAware on a production
::web-server

Then get a competent administrator.

mswmi.exe is normally not locking port 80. Period. Otherwise a web-server would just not work. SOMETHING is wrong here. Seriously wrong.

I would reinstall the production server.
# December 20, 2004 4:36 PM

chornbe said:

A google search showed references to it (and other similarly named files that get started as services) being of the type to spoof DNS servers and *attempt* to redirect HTTP and HTTPS messages.

icky.

Maybe soemone was using that server to do file sharing or surfing sites that know how to take advantage of holes in IE?

Dunno.
# December 20, 2004 5:21 PM

Dave K said:

I would check the configuration documentation for that server. If nothing was documented that would explain that service running on that port, I would definately reinstall the production box from scratch.

Then I would evaluate what practices could possibly lead a production server to get spyware on it, or where the breakdown in configuration management happened to allow that server to have a service running on it that wasn't documented.

If this is already a production web server, how is it that IIS is not listening on port 80? Is it only an SSL server? If it's only SSL you have a serious problem with someone jacking with a server that is only servicing secure pages (presumably for sensative info).
# December 20, 2004 5:59 PM

Darrell said:

My mom will be much happier with the roomba charging station I'm buying her. :)
# December 21, 2004 5:17 PM

chornbe said:

I did my civic duty yesterday. Move my brother's pc internals to a new case. His power supply bit the big one.

i r teh gud xmas givver, j0.

:)
# December 22, 2004 7:38 AM

Robert Scoble said:

I was the first one to link to that. :-)

My friend, Larry Larsen, works at Poynter and his coworkers did that.

I think it was funny.
# December 23, 2004 7:29 PM

Jason Mauss said:

dang it...Scoble beat me to it. I must've missed when you linked to that.
# December 23, 2004 7:32 PM

Zknet said:

Too bad that wouldn't help with javascript.
# December 23, 2004 8:56 PM

chornbe said:

I develop with pretty good standards support then test in Firefox and IE. That's it. IE is still the corporate standard in a vast, vast, hugely vast majority, so it's rare for me to receive any feedback about "bad pages" or the like.
# December 23, 2004 9:44 PM

Jason Mauss said:

ZKnet - why wouldn't that let me test my JavaScript?
# December 23, 2004 10:07 PM

Zknet said:

Oh.. I only read the first option, the screen capture service. I missed the remote access service. Forget I said anything. :)
# December 23, 2004 10:48 PM

Zknet said:

Why didn't I think of that? I do have a couple helpful javascript bookmarks. Such as:
javascript:void(document.body.onkeypress=function(){window.status=event.keyCode;});

Easy way to get the keycode for a key. I used to have one that added a border to all the tables for debugging purposes, but I must've lost it somewhere.
# December 30, 2004 2:08 AM

Darrell said:

# December 30, 2004 10:08 AM

Richard said:

If you're using FireFox, this extension named WebDeveloper is great. It has a Resize menu as well as a slew of other handy tools.
https://addons.update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefox&version=1.0&os=Windows&category=Developer%20Tools&numpg=10&id=60
# December 30, 2004 1:22 PM

Bill said:

Thanks Jason - I appreciate it ;-)
# December 30, 2004 7:42 PM

chornbe said:

That's good.

The best humor comes from truth, too! Kudos.
# December 31, 2004 6:52 AM

Bill said:

Jason - I just had to do a follow up based on something I saw last night - http://msmvps.com/williamryan/archive/2005/01/01/29132.aspx

Thanks again ;-)
# January 1, 2005 2:17 PM

chornbe said:

I admit I've knocked around a few NG posters, but it's usually only when it's PAINFULLY obvious that someone is looking to have someone... anyone... do their college homework. That irks me and I call them on it every time I see it.
# January 1, 2005 7:25 PM

chornbe said:

Wow. That's kinda scary.
# January 1, 2005 9:32 PM

TrackBack said:

# January 3, 2005 3:05 AM

mic said:

Open you project, then right cliek the asax file which in solution explorer and select the "open with.." menu item. ok, select "Html/xml editor" and then click the "open" button, you will get what you want.
btw, you can also click "set as default" button which in the dialog, so that you can just double-click to open it next time .

hope it'll be useful.
# January 4, 2005 6:31 AM

weston weems said:

ehh... well theres been versions of masterpages floating around almost since .net 1.0 was released... written by different people etc.

For me, I wanted something that I should ahve been able to achieve with a page base class and inheritance.

IIRC, you can inherit a page, but the ui inheritance is rather dismal or non-existant. Also, masterpages are designer ready (for some this is a big deal)

Its a lot easier to specify a master page template and setup regions than use the base pages etc.

# January 4, 2005 5:11 PM

Paul Wilson said:

Here's an excerpt from my first article (http://authors.aspalliance.com/PaulWilson/Articles/?id=13) on MasterPages in ASP.NET v1.*:

So why should you use MasterPages instead of another Page Template technique? First, its the most flexible, since it automatically supports multiple regions, optional regions with default content, and even nested and repeating templates. Its also the easiest to use, since you just use controls without writing code, which makes it a natural fit into the rest of the ASP.NET page-control model, leaving your developers free to create non-GUI "functional" base page classes. Finally, it will likely someday be the official template method in ASP.NET.

As one of the original inheritance "template" authors, I can agree that MasterPages isn't really "necessary", but it is a great generic solution, unlike many template solutions that force you into a specific layout (which may be great for your specific product of course).
# January 4, 2005 5:35 PM

Brock Allen said:

The three big features:

1) Designer support. With a custom base-class approach, in v1 you lost designer support. I'm not a huge fan of the VS.NET designer, but there were times where it was useful. Also, many developers (for better or worse) rely upon the designer.

2) You don't have to manually add your banner/footer/navigation controls to each page. In v1 if you took the UserControl approach where the template was copy/pasted to each ASPX, then that was the downside -- you had to manually replicate the template in each page. Not that this was the best idea, but it was *an* approach that worked for small sites.

3) If you took the dynamic LoadControl approach in v1, you always had the same URL for every page in your site with the only difference being the QueryString. With Master Pages you're not limited to a single 'master' URL.

Anyway, these are the main reasons compared to v1 as I see it. You're right in that it's not earth shattering, but now that the feature is here, why not use it? :)
# January 4, 2005 5:35 PM

chornbe said:

But, Jason... what you fail to realize is that this *new* and *amazing* concept that you and I have been missing... well, it's just plain COOL once you attach a cool, new, manufactured buzzword to it. Get with it, man!! :)

Honestly, I'm beginning to really lose faith in Microsoft. Not in that they can't deliver a good product - they can. In that they seem to have seriously lost direction.

Focus. They've lost it.

They seem to be really good at simply re-puking back polished and fancy stuff that wasn't broken in the first place, and ignoring all the customer complaints (not to mention developer complaints) in flagship products like Office.

I work at a fairly typical corporate place. We're just getting around to installing Office 2003. There is so much broken shit now, it's amazing. And even dialing back and looking at the horrible inra-program development you can do with Excel and Word - it's pathetic and clunky ON A GOOD DAY.

And yet... hey, that new WinFS filesystem will really set the world on fire in 2008, huh? (rolls eyes)
# January 4, 2005 9:27 PM

chornbe said:

PS... Thanks to crap like this, ASP.NET programmers are going to end up so niche-ey and proprietary it'll be COBOL all over again.

$.02
# January 4, 2005 9:30 PM

David Cumps said:

2 is too easy :p

color: #ff0000 is more nerd-ish ;)
# January 8, 2005 4:42 PM

Anthony Alvarado said:

i'm a nerd! :D
# January 8, 2005 6:26 PM

chornbe said:

I take the fifth. :P
# January 9, 2005 9:18 AM

Rory said:

I guess it's a little unavoidable that I'm a big freaking nerd, given that I have no choice but to say "yes" to number 9.

That said, my favorite question is number 6 - it's a very fine example of nerd cynicism at its best. I can imagine the low-lidded partially detached gaze followed by the word "shopped" - mainly because I've been there.

Non nerd: Wow. That's ao beautiful.

Nerd: Shopped.

Non nerd: Really? You think somebody *faked* that?

Nerd: Well, yeah. I mean, as much as I'd like to believe in the existence of a race of bipedal horses that can ride unicycles while juggling flaming chihuahuas in clown suits, I'm going to have to assume that, at least in this case, there was some minor doctoring that went on with the photo. Sorry.

Yup. Definitely been there and had *that* conversation.
# January 9, 2005 1:56 PM

chornbe said:

Doesn't mean it's not art. To some, anyway.

I mean, remember, we're living in a society where even Vanilla Ice is being sampled.
# January 9, 2005 5:14 PM

Scott C Reynolds said:

@chornbe: ouch!

Damn jason...you've made me feel bad, since even on your nerd test where only one affirmative makes you a nerd, I answerd yes to over half!
# January 9, 2005 9:17 PM

TrackBack said:

# January 11, 2005 7:28 AM

chornbe said:

Your timing is interesting.

I've never had so introspective a day (career-wise) as today. It all started at 4:30am this morning as I was awakened by my pager. You see, I'm a staff developer for a large-capital investment company and the billions of dollars in our funds mandate that I should be on-call 24/7 for emergencies.

For what they pay me, I can answer the occasional emergency page. But I digress...

After rubbing my eyes clear and reading the pager this morning, I discovered that one of my processes couldn't find its input file. Something upstream broke. I logged onto my company's webmail to check what I could from any emails flying about the ether. I found a message timestamped 7:57pm last night from one of my co-workers. It explained that his 5:30pm job failed and that we (the rest of the team) should try looking at what broke; he had jury duty today.

Ok, fair enough. So, I (and other team members) spent the day cleaning up afte rthe mess caused by a SysAdmin not properly (read as: at all) moving cron files and certain scripts to a replacement server put in place yesterday. Thru' all the hassles, angst, anger, worry and pressure, I found myself coming back to a few questions.

1) If he knew of the problem last night, why didn't he proactively alert someone.

2) If the sysadmins had done their job correctly, would today have been the oh-so-desired "quiet day" of myth and lore?

3) If we in the team were better cross-trained on each others' projects, would we have recovered more quickly?

4) Why am I still working here when this type of lunacy is becoming the norm? (that one's easy - the money - I'm a sellout, it seems)

5) If I'm "just a programmer" as the sysadmins keep telling me, then why would I have probably not made this same mistake (no, I'm not perfect - I'd have not made this mistake - That's confidence, not cockiness)

(sigh)

It's days like this that make me wonder why I bother and why I haven't changed carreers yet.
# January 11, 2005 3:40 PM

TrackBack said:

Jason Mauss rants about clients who think they know something about web design. I agree with Jason in that web design in particular is a field where the bar for considering oneself an expert is considerably lower than for many...
# January 26, 2005 5:00 AM

IM said:

Web Design.
Comparison with car maintenance - unfair.
Comparison with interior decorating - fair.
# January 26, 2005 8:27 AM

IM said:

Mind you having said that, interior decorators can get precious about their designs now and again, too :-)
# January 26, 2005 8:28 AM

TrackBack said:

# January 26, 2005 8:34 AM

Alex Papadimoulis said:

Learn to become snooty. And scoff. A lot.

Actually, the problem is that you're giving them the option in the first place. At least, that's what they perceive. The only initial feedback you want is an "overall look and feel" -- if they mention specific colors, columns, fonts, etc -- stop them *right* there and say that those items come at a later point in the process.

Once you get the look and feel that you think they want, present them with a static prototype (JPG). Once you've laid that down, they'll only ask for minor tweaks to it -- and fight the bad ones as needed. It's a much easier battle that way.
# January 26, 2005 9:41 AM

DG said:

Just because an Interior Decorator is an expert in their field doesn't mean that I as a paying client have to like everything they come up with. I've seen plenty of interior designs that I'd never put in my house, as there is always a subjective side to "art."

The same is true of web design. Just because you are an expert in the field with years of experience doesn't mean everyone is going to love everything that you do, because people have different motivations, tastes and desires. In addition, being a self-proclaimed expert automatically reduces your credibility in the objective review category - two different experts looking at the same web design challenge will come up with two different approaches.
# January 26, 2005 9:44 AM

Philip said:

It's always frustrating when you're hired to do something, ostensibly because you're the expert, and am then subject to too much opinion.

I think there are two broad areas to design, aesthetic and functional. There are certainly aspects of the UI that are comparable to working on an engine in a car and there's most likely an element of "truth" as to which solution is better. But there are also aspects of design that are more like painting the car and "truth" there suddenly becomes much more subjective.

It's important as a design consultant to be clear on which type of design consideration you're dealing with when discussing matters with the client. If it's something where the UI functionality would be flawed, then be direct with the client in explaining why your design is superior.

If the discussions that are frustrating you deal with subjective things like color scheme then it depends on your contractual relationship with the customer. If you have an hourly gig, then let them know what your opinion is but let them know you'll do whatever they want and make as many changes as they desire. Be very clear with the customer that the back and forth process is going to increase the project costs. They will bear the cost of their opinions. If the final design is what they want but not to your liking, then you have another satisfied customer and don't include the project in your portfolio.

If you have a fixed bid contract, then you bear the cost of going back and forth. Not good. For this type of relationship, it's very important that you get a high-level view of what they want, develop several prototype images, let them choose the design prototype they like best and do two or three more iterations of prototyping. It's critical they buy off on one of the prototypes. Once they buy off you need to make it clear that the period of soliciting input on aesthetics is basically closed. After that, if they can't resist changing the design, you should discuss switching to an hourly contract and be up front that you want to make sure they get exactly what they want and their aeshetics are sufficiently different from yours that you'll need to put in more time than your standard projects.
# January 27, 2005 3:44 PM

chornbe said:

I give them *EXACTLY* what they ask for, after copious emails and screenshots with their seal of approval.
# January 27, 2005 4:56 PM

Alex James said:

First let me say, yes it is frustrating, but by the same token expecting others to change is inviting frustration!

It doesn't always work but sometimes the key is in how you present your ideas.

If you make can make them feel smarter, let them think 'I rule', when they chose what you want them too chose, they are much more likely to. This is a real skill, something I wish I was better at...
# February 19, 2005 12:54 AM

TrackBack said:

^_^,Pretty Good!
# April 10, 2005 7:31 AM

TrackBack said:

^_^,Pretty Good!
# April 10, 2005 7:31 AM

TrackBack said:

^_^,Pretty Good!
# April 10, 2005 7:32 AM

TrackBack said:

^_^,Pretty Good!
# April 10, 2005 7:32 AM

TrackBack said:

^_^,Pretty Good!
# April 10, 2005 7:32 AM

TrackBack said:

^_^,Pretty Good!
# April 10, 2005 7:32 AM

TrackBack said:

^_^,Pretty Good!
# April 10, 2005 7:32 AM

TrackBack said:

^_^,Pretty Good!
# April 16, 2005 9:07 AM

chornbe said:

Hey, good to see you back! Was a little worried.
# April 29, 2005 5:49 AM

chornbe said:

You can't go wrong with anything from Celko; that's for sure.

I used to work with a guy (Ernie) who worked with Ted Codd way back in the day. There are a lot more theoretical rules of relational database design than could ever make it into a practical and working model. Of the 11?... currently considered gospel, only a scant few of them are in practical use.

Talk about a moving target.

I've been at this for 15 years and there is one and only one piece of advice (regarding good DB design) that I can pass along - use NULL wisely, young man.

And for god's sake - PLEASE use reasonable primary keys!! (ok, ok... that's TWO pieces of advice)
# April 29, 2005 5:53 AM

Alex Papadimoulis said:

Looking great!!

However, I do have to disagree with the part on SProcs.

First, I can't stand apps that have NumSprocs >= 4*NumTables -- I don't see the advantage to that. But, in a large app (25-50+ programmers to maintain), restricting all db access to SP makes life much easier. In apps that size, allowing dynamic SQL (even in DA components) is about as hectic as allowing db access from any tier (instead of restricting it to DAC).

Also, it would seem that the storing SQL in XML, in effect, reinvents stored procedures. Your DA class will still have to "know" the interface to the XML-procedure (num/type of params), unlike inline sql where the interface is right there in the code. About the only advantage I can see is having to write less DDL scripts.

That said, knowing about the app you write, it all totally makes sense. I'm thinking more along the lines of a internal IT app that runs part of the enterprise (like, Insurance Policy Mgmt system).
# May 2, 2005 9:45 AM

F Quednau said:

Greetings,
what about something like this?

private void Test(HtmlTextWriter output) {
output.WriteBeginTag("meta");
output.WriteAttribute("key", "keyval");
output.WriteAttribute("value", "val");
output.Write(HtmlTextWriter.SelfClosingTagEnd);
}
# May 6, 2005 3:51 AM

Paul Ballard said:

I'm a volunteer with INETA. We'd be happy to help you start a user group in that area. Please feel free to check out www.ineta.org. If you would like to join INETA, send an email to ugrelations@ineta.org.

Paul
# May 15, 2005 11:50 PM

Andreas said:

I don't have access to a database server to test this, but won't this do the trick?

SELECT
r.Name, r.Description, COUNT(u.*)
FROM
SystemRoles r
LEFT JOIN
SystemUserRoles u
ON r.Name = u.RoleName
GROUP BY
r.Name, r.Description
# June 6, 2005 4:39 AM

Jon Galloway said:

count(u.*) throws incorrect sytax. Changing it to count(u.RoleName) worked fine in my test, though:

SELECT
r.Name, r.Description, COUNT(u.RoleName)
FROM
SystemRoles r
LEFT JOIN
SystemUserRoles u
ON r.Name = u.RoleName
GROUP BY
r.Name, r.Description
# June 6, 2005 4:44 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Wow, you guys are fast...even at almost 2am (well, my time anyway)

Thanks for the responses from both of you. It looks like I was just overlooking something obvious.

Thanks again both Andreas and Jon.
# June 6, 2005 4:47 AM

Mischa Kroon said:

For other speedy sql help:
#sql on efnet

Responses usually within 5 minutes :)
# June 6, 2005 9:51 AM

Brendan G said:

Would this same thing apply in Australia as well? And if so, any ideas on the IP's and addresses that would work best?

Cheers,
Brendan
# June 8, 2005 1:32 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Brendan - I'm not sure about Austrailia. You should be able to contact your local MSDN or Partner rep at Microsoft and they should be able to tell you if there is a local mirror in AUS.
# June 8, 2005 1:14 PM

Alex Papadimoulis said:


Uh huh ... I'm suuuuurrreee you were just "looking" for a "link" to the "video" ....

Methinks you just wanted to rub it in that *you're* at TechEd and *we're* not!
# June 8, 2005 5:06 PM

Jason Mauss said:

haha dood what are you talking about. Why would I have been watching the web-cast in the first place if I was there? I would crap my pants if my employer actually sent me to TechEd
# June 8, 2005 5:09 PM

Alex Papadimoulis said:

Hahaha. Whoops -- you did sound like one of those lucky Tech-Ed bastards though ;-).
# June 9, 2005 10:12 AM

Raymond Lewallen said:

I too am penciled down for doing "Choosing a Documentation Tool" How-To-Select-Guide. I think the guides are wonderful ideas, will be excellently written sources of information.
# June 9, 2005 5:31 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Good to hear Raymond! I'm looking forward to reading the other guides as they're published, too.
# June 9, 2005 5:38 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Heh...you probably would've heard from me a long time before now if I were going to TechEd.
# June 9, 2005 5:57 PM

TrackBack said:

# June 9, 2005 6:29 PM

Shane said:

I think it's interesting but they need to put some effort into making it not so butt ugly. Yes I'm a developer but that dosen't mean I enjoy looking at ugly.
# June 13, 2005 2:39 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Perhaps the graphics and CSS could use a little work but it doesn't look THAT bad...especially compared to a lot of other developer (not designer) sites out there...
# June 13, 2005 3:19 PM

Duncan said:

Well this certainly works for me - 50-60K to 110-120K

Duncan.
# June 14, 2005 4:30 PM

inoodle said:

Jodohost have been good for me.
Whatever you do, don't go for DataPacket.net.
# June 15, 2005 4:27 AM

Fabrice said:

My post about webhost4life may be of interest to you :-)
http://weblogs.asp.net/fmarguerie/archive/2005/06/15/412774.aspx
# June 15, 2005 5:41 AM

Paul Wilson said:

I too use WebHost4Life -- very good for an unbeatable price -- even good service the few times I needed it. As for free offers for advertising, WebHost4Life will give you a commission on referals -- which can be as good as a free offer.
# June 15, 2005 7:06 AM

Fabrice said:

As far as I am concerned, commissions on referrals are sufficient to pay the hosting bills :-)
But I'm using a shared server.
# June 15, 2005 7:18 AM

Scott C. Reynolds said:

J I will also reco WebHost4Life.
# June 15, 2005 11:55 AM

Rex said:

Apologies if i'm off-track here, cause its been a while since i did web development, but can't you achieve the same thing with border:none and cell-spacing?

-x
# June 16, 2005 2:01 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Rex - if you set "border: none" and then set the border color and width to 1px on hover of the element then you get an element that pushes other elements around when it goes from no border to a 1px border. And I'm not sure what you mean in regards to cellspacing. This is a common problem for me with elements that have no cellspacing attribute.
# June 16, 2005 5:13 AM

Charles Chen said:

There are multiple ways of overcoming this problem.

One solution is to have a border of the same width with the same color as the background of the element below it.

For example, there are times where I want my <a> elements, rendered as blocks elements, to have a 1px border when the user hovers over it. To overcome the fact that border:none will cause the alignment to shift, place a 1px border around it to begin with and set the color to be the same as the background color of the <a> or the background color of the container.

Another solution is to use border:none and margin to simulate this. Again, using an <a> element rendered as a block element, you can set the margin to 1px, which simulates a 1px border in terms of spacing. On hover, set the margin to 0px and set the border to 1px solid.

So Rex is right; you can acheieve the same effect with border:none, margin:<border-width-here> if you are working with block elements like <div>s.
# June 16, 2005 9:04 AM

z said:

Nice workaround dude, but I think he was asking for it to work properly instead. :)
# June 16, 2005 9:46 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Charles - what do I do if my element background is an image w/ a gradient in it?

btw, I'm talking about fairly complex stuff here...dhtml toolbars and what not...that's where this problem really hurts..not just with <a>nchors.
# June 16, 2005 1:15 PM

Charles Chen said:

"Charles - what do I do if my element background is an image w/ a gradient in it?"

Use the margin workaround.

"I'm talking about fairly complex stuff here...dhtml toolbars and what not"

That's nice. Not to sound mean or egotistical, but I have to say it "You want a cookie?" Trust me, I've worked with some pretty badass custom DHTML, cross-browser, primarily CSS based menus. It can be done ;)
# June 16, 2005 2:04 PM

Jason Mauss said:

"Use the margin workaround"

Yeah, that's what I said I did in my post.

what I was trying to point out was that your suggestion of what to do in your first post goes out the window if you don't have a single, solid color background, that's all.

And I didn't mention the DHTML CSS Toolbar thing because I want a pat on the back. I mentioned it because you seemed to be offering what I consider to be an over-simplified explanation for what was required to fix the problem I had.

I like your site design btw. Nice and clean, simple and elegant. Free of clutter.
# June 16, 2005 2:32 PM

Charles Chen said:

"I like your site design btw. Nice and clean, simple and elegant. Free of clutter. "

Thanks. I liked it at first; starting to think it's bland now :P I dunno...my taste varies so quickly.
# June 16, 2005 3:29 PM

Jason Mauss said:

heh...the mark of a web designer. Never satisfied w/ the way something looks ;-)
# June 16, 2005 3:55 PM

Wim Hollebrandse said:

For your first option, you could save a key stroke. F6 will do the same. And works in both FF and IE.

Also - to get to the address bar and display the MRU list, you can use F4. IE only though.
# June 16, 2005 7:25 PM

Buddy Lindsey said:

F11 Full screens
# June 16, 2005 7:29 PM

Chris Martin said:

Alt + Home goes to your homepage.
The obvious Ctrl + P to print.
Alt + Print Screen - Screen capture the active window. (not just browser though)
Up/Down arrows - scrolls the page.
# June 16, 2005 7:35 PM

Tarun Jain said:

Ctrl + W closes a window. Better than the universal Alt + F4
Ctrl + I toggles favorites
# June 17, 2005 11:21 AM

Geoff said:

My personal favorite for browsing the web:

Hold shift and then use the scroll wheel. It will take you forwards (acts like a click) or backwards. Very nice when trying to do research since I can just point my mouse at a link, hold Shift and scroll forward, if I didn't find what I wanted I just scroll back and go on to the next link.

No need to move the mouse all over the screen to go backwards and forwards..


Also, I'm sure everyone has run into this one: Backspace will take you back if you are not focused on an imput control
# June 17, 2005 2:02 PM

chornbe said:

Someone mentioned CTRL+W to close the window. It also has the benefit of stopping any scripts and *not* activating the onClose javascript event, thereby helping to stop popups.
# June 18, 2005 8:07 AM

Sander said:

I registered as well. Too bad that all usergroup related info is completely focused on North America. It's like the rest of the world doesn't exist in this (code)zone.
# June 18, 2005 1:52 PM

JC said:

Webhost4life is a great host with great price. I have over 10 different site hosted with them =)
# June 18, 2005 2:58 PM

Dante said:

Worked wonders for me - from 100K to 380K.
# June 22, 2005 9:53 AM

Trisha Lacey said:

Jason - thanks for the comments! Yes, it is built with ASP .NET 2.0. I am very happy to see that you are getting use out of it. I am actually the Codezone lead for the US and we are planning to build in more functionality in the future, so let me know if there are any things in particular you would like to see. It makes my job much easier if the community tells me what they want! To reach me, just log into the site and use the "Contact Us" button up in the top right corner. The emails from there go directly to me and the project team.

To the other comments - Shane, sorry you think it is "butt ugly" - we wanted to keep a pretty simple look and feel since there is so much content, but to address the ugly factor we should have some skins up by next week so you can change the look if you want to. We will also set it up so that you can create your own skins if you wish.

To Sander - actually many other parts of the world had Codezone incarnations before the US jumped in. If you want to check out the other sites, you can go to the Codezone site and use the dropdown at the top, then you can see what other countries have. For now, the MyCodezone functionality has only been launched in the US, but all of the Codezone teams are trying to work together to share what we have done and eventually we should have something pretty similar throughout the world, localized to each area of course.

Thanks,
Trisha Lacey - US Codezone Lead
# June 22, 2005 2:31 PM

Hemant said:

Even i had asked the same question about a month ago to gmail. But no has replied back to me.
# June 22, 2005 8:04 PM

Tom said:

In all fairness, I've found webhost4life to be a little slower than other hosts that
I've used and they use a shared SQL architecture which makes installing Community Server slightly harder than at other hosts (but very slightly)

That said, I still use them for all but two of the web sites I host, their prices are unbeatable and their support has always been good to me. The sites aren't so slow as to be distracting and in the CServer problem the staff was good about helping me through.

Unless top performance is a big issue for you, I'd go Webhost4life (otherwise I'd check out portalwebhosting.com which has also been good to me)
# June 22, 2005 10:33 PM

Andy said:

DataPacket.net has worked great for me, not perfect. Jodohost needs to get a clue, was with them once and webhost4life is slow and has security issues with their servers. I could delete anyone’s web files if I really wanted.

It's really about preference of each person, not really the host. One host may suck for you, but are gods gift to another.
# June 23, 2005 12:05 AM

unknown guy said:

they are forced to!
There is a interlocutory injunction about the use of gmail as name in germany
(http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/59989)
# June 23, 2005 2:45 AM

Krak said:

BackSpace = Back
F1 = Help
F4 = Highlights URL bar / Brings up Auto-Complete Listing
F5 = Refresh
F6 = Hightlight URL bar
F10 = Hightlight Menu bar
F11 = Full Screen
Alt + F4 = Close Window
Ctrl + A = Select All (Universal)
# June 23, 2005 6:32 PM

Wallym said:

Personally, I am not a fan of ORM. The two issues that I run into are a lack of flexibility for implementing business logic and a lack of speed.
# June 27, 2005 2:23 PM

Thomas Tomiczek said:

Ok, here is what I am NOT looking for:

* POCO - I have nothing against intrusive O/R mappers, as an O/R mapper is intrusive per definition unless you hide it under another layer. Query code all over the place.
* Extneral XML mapper file. Lots of people love to have the mapping file external to the DLL. This never has been an issue for me, and propably never will.

I look for:

* Strong database management. Schema sync, backup and restore mechanisms for data so that the user can easily move from SqlServer to Oracle.
* Full core features.
* Strong support for remoted data access layer scenarios. We had some projects last year requiring this - like client/server over a 56k connection.
* Same for caching. Please give me a disc based cache, so that large objects just send keysd and versions. Again, this may be specific to the projects e did, but when you have relatively static data (images) ofver a 33.6 to 56k connection, you WANT a disc based cache. Note that this can be perfectly valid all the time - you can have a counter in the object that is also transmitted to find out whether the cache is stale.
* Support for DataBinding. Absolute core.
* Location agnostic API. I do not want to have to change a single line of code, whether I work against a local data access layer, a data access layer on a separate computer and/or remote objects.
* Extensible object models. My object models ive, on a project, in maybe 10 different assemblies. I need the ability to have ONE O/Rmapper model spawn them all. Drop in a new model, the same O/R mapper instance knows how to use it. This should include functoinality like substituting object types (accounting works with "Invoice", I replace this type in the factory with a subclass that is MyInvoice and has additional fields).

And naturally all features that distinguish an O/R mapper from a toy. Which means proper OO support including inheritance, support for all 4 inheritance models.

I seriously find the dynamic extensibility of most O/R mappers being very poor. Especially code generator ones do not relaly deal, normally, with models that span multiple assemblies. Once you hit 200+ business objects, though, it makes sense to split them into sub-systems (actually it makes sense much earlier, but then you start feeling the pain). Substitution, as mentioned above, is also great for estensible applications. I can use a generic accounting package and use my own extended types in it.
# June 27, 2005 2:25 PM

Frans Bouma said:

"Personally, I am not a fan of ORM. The two issues that I run into are a lack of flexibility for implementing business logic and a lack of speed."
Lack of flexibility for implementing BL? There is more flexibility than there is with datasets, so how can this be less flexible?
Also the lack of speed is IMHO not really true. The more mature O/R mappers offer speed enhancements like prefetch paths, where you fetch object graphs with one query per node, with filters/sorting per node. You can't beat that in procs/datasets.
------

Evaluating O/R mappers can be a tough call: it depends on how YOU want to work with data: dataset oriented, object oriented, entity oriented? And full DDD or not? These aspects are key to find the proper data-access solution you need. Because: the features offered by a product have to match what you need, not what marketing wants to sell you. So instead of focussing on features you probably will never use, focus on features you WILL use and will need every day of the project.

A good example of why some features are meaningless is mentioned above:
"Which means proper OO support including inheritance, support for all 4 inheritance models. "
Inheritance can be helpful, it will be build into LLBLGen Pro 1.0.2005.1 soon, though there aren't 4 different inheritance models. There are 2 which are useful (3 actually, but 2 are similar) and the 4th is useless as it propagates redundant data and maintenance nightmares.
1) target per concrete entity type (no duplicate fields)
2) target per concrete entity type with discriminator column in root entity. Similar to 1) and if you implement 1) in the O/R mapper, you don't need this one, which allows for cleaner schemas
3) target per entity hierarchy: discriminator column needed
4) target per entity: all fields of supertypes are also present in subtype tables. Useless.

Also, some O/R mappers want you to believe that mixing of inheritance types in one hierarchy is required. It's not. Inheritance is often not required actually, and if it is in a particular situation, the relational model has to be setup so inheritance can be implemented. The main thing then is: why mix inheritance types in a hierarchy? It only makes the O/R mapper core more complex and slower.
# June 27, 2005 3:15 PM

dru said:

*I look for POCO. I don't want something getting in the way of DDD.
* I look for external configuration, XML or otherwise
* Strong OOP support
* Flexibility in the Object to Table relationship

I went with NHibernate.
# June 27, 2005 3:23 PM

Justinb said:

I look for quality and ease of use. The product must perform as advertised and have good quality with each release. The ease of use is also a must have. I have used some components that take hours just to do a simple chart while others it has taken less then 10 minutes to figure out how to do the same chart.

A good example of what I am talking about is the help/samples that come with the Dundas charting component. These samples have everything that you need to figure out how to use the component, are organized very well, and are production ready.
# June 27, 2005 4:18 PM

John said:

* Not Intrusive (POCO and Xml Mappings)
* Ease of Use (and Easy to Modify too)
* Flexibility (DAL Features, Stored Procs)
* Performance (No Reflection or DataSets)
* Support (Community and Popularity too)

I went with Paul Wilson's WilsonORMapper.
# June 27, 2005 4:42 PM

Jeff Perrin said:

Simplicity. 100% of the projects I've worked on so far have not required 50% of the features of NHibernate, or other large ORMs. I want to be able to create a nice, object-oriented domain model without having to worry about the details of it's persistence.

- CRUD an object
- Find an object based on certain criteria
- Handle one-to-many, and many-to-many relationships
- Flexibility. Let me make ad-hoc queries with concatenated string SQL if I really want to.

That's about it. I basically want an ORM at the opposite end of the spectrum from what Thona talks about. In short, I want a toy. KISS. YAGNI.
# June 27, 2005 4:44 PM

Jeff Perrin said:

Oh, I should have also mentioned that being open source is of importance to me.

I haven't found one yet that feels right.
# June 27, 2005 4:52 PM

Eric Newton said:

I have to agree with Jeff, and the KISS philosophy. Its a given that o/r mappers are another layer on top of accessing the datastore.

I too find myself wishing for features that I dont need, but "would be cool to have" and I think that's where some o/r mappers go wrong, and begin to introduce complexity into whats usually already complex enough.

nhibernate is cool, but suffers a little from feature bloat. LLBLGen, i havent had a chance to look at.

Personally, I've adopted Wilson's ORMapper, since its seems mature now. I have even worked somewhat on updating the code generation for the ORHelper side project.

Its just so pleasent to write code:

Quote = quotedb.ObjectSpaceManager.GetObject(typeof(quotedb.Quote), quoteId=1);
quote.DateClosed = DateTime.Now.Date;
quotedb.ObjectSpaceManager.PersistChanges(quote);

instead of the litany of SQL ;-) +the strong typing +when db fields change, the gen'd code can change, showing me the impact of a schema change...

I believe we're coming close (maybe we're already there) to an era of software developement that focuses more on solving the business problems, instead of solving the technical problems.
# June 27, 2005 6:30 PM

Jason Bunting said:


I use Paul Wilson's mapper, and love it. Personally, POCO is muy importante, because although Thona may feel otherwise, I don't feel that an "O/R mapper is intrusive per definition." I think Paul's mapper is 90% there as far as what I want. I have used it in numerous projects over the last 7 months and love it to death.
# June 27, 2005 7:04 PM

Jeff Gonzalez said:

We went with CodeSmith. I know, I know it isnt an O/R Mapper. Frans and Thona have taken every opportunity to remind me everytime I mention it.

What I like about CodeSmith is the fact that I can be 100% involved in the design of my architecture. It allows me to develop a solid core understanding of the issues with our data and how to solve them. We developed a mapping architecture based on specific rules and standards for creating a database. We do have a mapping layer implemented via class library that handles all of our common functionality. The cool thing we have done with CodeSmith is enforce our standards and design policies instead of just advocating them.

I haven't tried using any of the O/R Mappers that are out there today, but Paul Wilson's has intrigued me from time to time.

# June 27, 2005 7:06 PM

Jeff Gonzalez said:

I would like to add that there is absolutely no reason for me to buy a product like Thona sells, because we don't need 1/3 of the stuff he is talking about.

We use a datamodel driven design. We can generate all of the code we need to interface with a database and consume these entity objects directly via presentation layers or through an added business layer.

We can plug these assemblies that are generated into any application and plug it into any of our applications.

# June 27, 2005 7:11 PM

Lei Jiang said:

I am interested in if there are some Chart controls for Avalon.
# June 27, 2005 10:08 PM

Padraic said:

I went with NEO - lightweight and easy to use, and free
# June 27, 2005 10:43 PM

Marc Scheuner said:

ORM for .NET should:
* Support all the basic operations commonly needed (CRUD, loading lists of objects contained etc.)
* Be easy to use and not impose a complex, crazy set of conventions on me

and most of all

* support stored procedures for all CRUD operations!!!!
(hardly anyone does that - why not??? doesn't make sense.....)
# June 28, 2005 1:21 AM

Chris Ongsuco said:


* Good designer for generating schema and entity classes
* Ease of use (simple as possible)
* Strong support of object relationships (graphs)
* Databinding is nice
* Strong OOP support

And,

* Price is cheap??? :D

NHibernate, though still in its Beta, is nice but the lacks designer support for generating schema and entity classes.

# June 28, 2005 3:07 AM

dragonwell said:

"* Not Intrusive (POCO and Xml Mappings)
* Ease of Use (and Easy to Modify too)
* Flexibility (DAL Features, Stored Procs)
* Performance (No Reflection or DataSets)
* Support (Community and Popularity too)

I went with Paul Wilson's WilsonORMapper. "

Mega-Dittos!

The non-intrusive quality is essential if you want to be able to create a facade layer on top of your DAL.
# June 28, 2005 9:05 AM

Steve Campbell said:

When I was looking for an OR Mapper (did not find one I liked), features that were important to me were:
* non-intrusive, which means an external configuration file and/or code-generation
* exposed object relationships - I wanted to be able to generate help docs based on the OR Mapping, as well as generate code, and expose the relationships to the users for reporting/querying purposes
* lookup relationships - recognition that a "lookup" is a relationship too, but a special type. I want native support for the concept of lookup tables, especially those involving code/literals.
* Good object-query language - need a nice way to do adhoc queries
* Multiple OR configurations, with interactions - I want to be able to have plugin programs that have their own OR mapping files, but still allow interaction with one or more core mapping files.
* Lazy loading support. Also, optimized lazy loading, which means dynamic recognition and optimization of lazy loads that are parallel/related. (don't query for 1 record 100 times when you can query for 100 records 1 time).
* Automatic relationship management (I do not want to manually set foreign key values)
# June 28, 2005 9:59 AM

Alex Dresko said:

Everyone I've convinced to use LLBLGen loves it and wouldn't use anything else.
# June 28, 2005 12:05 PM

Richard Bogle said:

My needs are pretty basic but all centre around getting the code cut as quickly as possible.

Specifically for O/R Mapping:
* 1:n and n:m
* Some template or designer tool that will generate the classes for me from the database tables. As someone else pointed out, some of us don't have the luxury of design time, especially in the contract coding world. MyGeneration (free) works for Gentle.NET and NHibernate and I believe WilsonORMapper has templates for CodeSmith (not free).

These comments are really general. They apply to *anything* new I have to take on board.
* Ease of use is very important to me. I work on my own so I don't have a lot of time, or anyone to help me, when learning new tech.
* Stable, I can't be chasing after strange errors or configuration snafus. If I do, I may need the source.
* Documentation. Intellisense should be there for me, as well as a fully documented API. Some guidelines on best practice with copious, real world, working examples wouldn't go amiss. Cut and paste coding saves a lot of heartache.
* Support. The product needs to have a good wiki, a FAQ and decent forums especially.

Before I start with any new product I'll have a good look through these last two points to see if I like the look of the code I'm about to have to write.

* Free. It's pretty rare that I'm going to buy a product when I can either do without or find a free substitute.

# June 28, 2005 12:19 PM

Omar said:

I started with CSLA.NET and soon it was obvouse that maintaing 5+ stored procedures for every table in a 200+ table database is a nightmare especially when part of your logic is in the SP.
I wanted something to allow to generate my DAL in less than 5minutes and support any DB I want. I wanted something that allowed me to build my own templates and integrate my BL class where I see fit.
I didn't want an OR mapper to enfore or constraint my work....
I didn't want an OR mapper that created crazy table structures in my database
one OR mapper fit the bill... LLBLGenPRO

I started using LLBLGenPRO more than a year back and its been smooth sailing. We have build a big ERP project, a mall POS system and even a stock market tracking system and all the development time was concentrated on building the DB and wrting the BL logic. No data-access stuff!!
# June 29, 2005 3:31 AM

Ben Kloosterman said:

The thing is i see a lot of OR mappers in small projects and they add little value above using datasets.

Where they come into their own is large nTier systems .

Hence i want ( most copied from above)
* Not Intrusive (POCO and Xml Mappings)
* Simple and Ease of Use . Most programers cant afford the time to understand an OR mapper and struggle with the learning curve. Hard enough to wean them of Datasets.
* Flexibility (DAL Features, Stored Procs)
* Performance (No Reflection or DataSets)
* Transaction , batch update and bulk insert support.
* Generics support.
* Support (Community and Popularity too)
* Work well with NTier arhitectures and Caching . ie if using output or busines logic caching then little caching should be done by the OR mapper . If a Business component stores all products in memory , then data access is pointless except for persistance .
* Most important an OR Mapper should be little more than a DAL layer. And it should do this very well.

I also went with Paul Wilson's WilsonORMapper.
# June 30, 2005 9:45 AM

Andrew Peters said:


* Simplicity and "convention over configuration" e.g Rails' ActiveRecord. Custom attributes instead of XML. Infer as much as possible
* Non intrusive (no base class)
* Don't care about Stored Procs
* Stable, good unit test coverage and reasonable docs/examples
* Small clean API
* Lazy loading using runtime IL weaving
* Outer-Join fetching
* Database agnostic
* Lifecycle callbacks
* Optimistic locking
* Logging

# July 4, 2005 1:37 AM

chornbe said:

Ah, man. Wish I knew you were coming east. I'd have sprung for dinner and drinks.
# July 16, 2005 1:43 PM

bob hornbuckle said:

you should make it out to central illinoios where I'll show you how us Illinoians code!
# July 21, 2005 1:04 AM

Scott C. Reynolds said:

Many thanks for the compliments my friend. I don't know...he really set me off with that. Glad to see i'm not the only one who thought he was out of bounds.
# July 26, 2005 8:25 PM

Jerry Pisk said:

hh yeah? ..well a lot households are so cool they already have T1 speeds coming in. Actually, T1 speed (1.5Mbit) is considered slow these days...
# July 27, 2005 2:10 AM

Tobin Titus said:

Welcome and congrats
# July 28, 2005 3:15 PM

Jason Mauss said:

bah! crap...and we're both named Jason, too. ...that's too weird...scary, even.
# July 28, 2005 4:20 PM

Scott C. Reynolds said:

Gratz my man! I had given it some thought myself... Keep us posted on the progress
# July 28, 2005 4:53 PM

scottgu@microsoft.com said:

If you have SQL Express installed, then you don't need to-do anything in order to provision the database. Just use webparts (or membership or roles, etc), and the first time it is used ASP.NET will create a sql express database for you under your app_data directory that has all of the schema installed and configured.

Hope this helps,

Scott
# August 8, 2005 3:03 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Hi Scott - I've read about that also - but I'm getting an error message when I run my ASP.NET 2.0 pages about how it couldn't create the database. I'll try and get the exact error message....
# August 8, 2005 3:09 PM

scottgu@microsoft.com said:

The error message should detail steps to fix it if you are running into it. Often these are a result of ACL problems.

Feel free to email me a copy of the error if you can't get through it, and I'd be happy to help walk you though how to fix it.

Thanks,

Scott
# August 8, 2005 4:14 PM

Robert Scoble said:

The PDC is the best, of course. More than 1,000 bloggers will be there!
# August 13, 2005 12:12 AM

Larry said:

I do remember seeing that error many times, but not recently.
If I remember correctly, it was a general SQL syntax error. In my case, I think that either I tried to to an INSERT and one of my column definitions was set to "NOT NULL" and the value I was trying to insert into that column was null.
Another time, I think I tried to insert a value that did not match the column definition in the table -- you know "bit" vs. "int" or something similar.
But I remember being frustrated with the generic nature of the error message.
# August 31, 2005 4:43 PM

Dave said:

Try inserting data into the CLOB that is smaller than the one you are failing on.
If that works then you have the same problem I had a while back.

Afraid the news isn't good though.
I bet you dollars to donuts that it is choking on it because the driver can't handle the large size.

The ADO Driver will only let you send a subset of the size that oracle can handle.

I ran into this before.
# August 31, 2005 6:57 PM

Jason said:

You link to Visual Studio 2005 Guide has a typo
# September 8, 2005 3:44 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Woops - thanks for catching that. There's a typo on the page, actually...where I copied it from. I fixed it here - and I'll let them know to fix it there on their site, too.
# September 8, 2005 3:46 PM

Stuart Langridge said:

Thanks for the review! I'm glad you liked the book. :)
# September 24, 2005 7:09 AM

Chuck Conway said:

Don't know if this is the best approach, but I create a table for semi static data. Enums that don't change, I code them.
# September 26, 2005 1:05 PM

Walter Lounsbery said:

Great question. Do I give up Intellicrack and put the list in the database? Do I give up runtime flexibility and put the list in the code? Do I force the user to submit a help ticket to add another item on the list?

I think the practical question must fall in the functional zone. If the application benefits from adding to that enumeration at any time, without delay, by non-coders, that list had better be in the database. If you can't answer the preceding question, maybe you'd better put that list in the database.

If you are enumerating the strings "True" and "False", your coding language of choice probably has that covered already. If you are enumerating the datatypes, likewise. If you are enumerating something that will allow your application to operate without a database connection, maybe that's a good thing. If you are a paranoid coder looking to enhance your job security, look for every opportunity to turn data into hard code and resource files!

Now you know why I think that's a great question! (Haha)

-- Walter Lounsbery
# September 26, 2005 2:05 PM

Erik Porter said:

I think it really depends on if that data will change or not, but quite honestly, for consistency we create tables for each enum if it will fill a dropdownlist or whatever. That said, I think an exception to that rule is for enums that will change very often. I guess I would say those should not be in the DB. So I guess I'm back to the decision being dependent on what you want to do with it! :P
# September 26, 2005 2:27 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks for the feedback so far. The type of stuff I've had a had time deciding on before has been stuff like a list of databases an application supports for a feature like setting up a connection string in an admin-type tool. Maybe at some point in the future you'll support another database or OLE DB data source and so you'll need to add that to the enum in your code library as well as add a row to your table for the list of supported databases/data sources.

The other thing I've often found to be painful is ensuring that your enum values and the ID values for the primary key field in the DB table match up. If they somehow get messed up during setup or whatever, you have to reseed the value or reset the sequence (in Oracle) before inserting the rows into the table that map to your enum values.
# September 26, 2005 2:32 PM

Eric Newton said:

If this "enum" that you're talking about changes, then its not an enum. Its a lookup, and should never be an enum. Use a simple list for

This is my beef with enums, they should never have allowed you to easily convert to an int.

And for anybody adding their enums to databases: you should ALWAYS explicitly set each enum's values. And dont let the database (via autoincrement identity or something) dictate that value... thats a great recipe for disaster.
# September 26, 2005 3:35 PM

Anony Mouse said:

No mention of localization yet, if that's even a requirement. If your enums will have user-friendly strings for presentation in the UI layer, then you have to also consider where/how you'll store the localized translations of said enums. That typically points to either some kind of resource file lookup, or possibly a database table in which you may have to keep adding columns to contain each language translation.
# September 26, 2005 4:20 PM

Sébastien Ros said:

Enums definitely map to int, even more as using [Flags] attribute.
# September 26, 2005 5:19 PM

Darren "the hornbuckle" Neese said:

dude, c'mon. Give your blog account up to someone who needs it. I'm homeless, in a cardboard box, and you have 2 houses and can't decide which to sleep in...

...gosh darnit! I want a blog on asp.net and no one will gimme one. :( *insert sympathy here*
# September 29, 2005 3:33 AM

Jay Kimble said:

Nuts... I just checked the schedule... I was hoping that my Internet E-mail components was next... <sigh>
# September 30, 2005 3:06 PM

Darren said:

because I don't have a asp.net blog, I guess I'll piggie-back your entries and complain about how if I blog on my site, not only will anyone comment, but no one would read it to begin with.
# October 1, 2005 2:54 AM

Keyvan Nayyeri said:

I saw a video on Channel 9 about them. Scoble had an interview with Amazon developers.
Their webservices are great.
# October 5, 2005 9:18 AM

Jason Bock said:

I wrote a small article on my site as I use the services for all sorts of things. You can find it here:

http://www.jasonbock.net/JB/Default.aspx?blog=entry.5d98dfd207464662b2b7c1741e8ca664

It's not thorough - more of a quick intro to get you up to speed. The API is not that hard, but it's vast :)
# October 5, 2005 9:29 AM

Darren said:

one word.... DotNetNuke

ok, maybe 3....DotNetNuke Syndicated Modules
# October 7, 2005 1:36 AM

Eric Newton said:

and another thing, if you decide you want to directly write RSS XML, do yourself a favor and use the XmlTextWriter to generate the XML... this will guarantee that the XML is valid and well-formed

Theres just too many sites out there "stringing" xml together, and getting a < in a title completely breaks the well-formedness.
# October 7, 2005 12:39 PM

Alonso said:

oh gimme a break. This is cake and you dont need to use some fancy package. Just build another page and you are golden. Just make sure to reformat xml-specific characters < > etc.

If you do it this way, your sites base page class (you *are* using a base page class...right) will handle all the reporting, access verifications etc.
# October 7, 2005 1:05 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Alonso - yes I am using a base page class - I don't see what that has to do with "reporting" and "access verifications" though. Care to elaborate?

The reason I would like to possibly use an HttpModule is because, technically, a URL like devcampus.com/database/SQLServer/RSS will not exist. So I need to handle requests for RSS like that in a custom way. The only way (that I know of) to handle a request for a page/url that doesn't exist using an .aspx page is to have a custom 404 page and have it look at the request url and return the RSS xml content if it's a "good" invalid url/page request.
# October 7, 2005 1:15 PM

Alonso said:

I would suggest just keeping it simple. Have the actual page exist. Have a page-class hierarchy like:
BasePage : System.Web.UI.Page (put your request logging here)
BasePageRequireLogin : BasePage (put your access control logic here)

if you want your rss page to require a login, then the aspx page for it would just be:
public class rssPage : BasePageRequireLogin {
// etc
}

This way, your authentication / logging / reporting is identical to the existing logic of the rest of your site.

if you want a url like SQLServer/RSS/ then just have the .aspx page be "default.aspx" or "index.asxp" or whatever you have your IIS server setup for default document delivery.

You could use HTTP pipeline stuff and urlrewriting but why bother? ASP.NET does not have good support for these technologies, you dont need them, and simpler is better.

Just my .02, I have had employed this strategy and much more complex strategies and found this approach more straightforward, simpler to setup, more intuitive for maintainers, and therefore better.



# October 7, 2005 6:33 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks for sharing Alonso - gives me some things to think about.
# October 7, 2005 6:54 PM

Roy J. Salisbury said:

Well, I don't think it really means that it is using .NET (aspx) .. try

http://r.email.microsoft.com/CUI/error.php?culture=en-us

Are they running php as well?

# October 19, 2005 7:34 PM

Bruce Garr said:

Yeah, I'm going. Where do you want to meet?

bgarrydo-REMOVE-@netscape.net
# October 20, 2005 3:32 AM

Anonymous said:

What resin email software? Resin is a Java servlet engine.
# October 20, 2005 4:07 AM

Jason Mauss said:

ahh - right you are anonymous. I had just assumed it was e-mail software because of the context in which the error occured. Thanks for correcting me.
# October 20, 2005 4:19 AM

Raymond Lewallen said:

Just wear a T-Shirt that says "I Know Raymond Lewallen". They'll probably ask you to present the launch event.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
# October 20, 2005 11:35 AM

Raymond Lewallen said:

Or better yet, you'll attract some of the more "awkwardly curious" crowd in SanFran :)
# October 20, 2005 11:38 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Careful what you say Raymond - I'm good friends with people that own a t-shirt press - I just might do that. I'm probably not brave enough to wear it in the Castro district, though :)
# October 20, 2005 11:53 AM

Raymond Lewallen said:

LOL, it might even get you preferred seating at the event.. in the 3rd stall of the men's restroom where the George Michael wannabe's hang out.
# October 20, 2005 12:34 PM

Jason Mauss said:

If you hear "Wake me up before you go-go" from the mens bathroom - I swear it's not me.
# October 20, 2005 12:36 PM

Roderick said:

Installing it directly did not work when I tried it.

Anyone else have any better luck or other options?
# October 24, 2005 9:19 PM

The Guy Getting the Job said:

ROFLMAO!!!1 Thanks dude! ;)
# October 25, 2005 11:08 AM

DarkForce said:

I tried to download and install the update too, and it did not work. I have heard that setting the URL of that activeX as trusted site might work, but have not yet tried.
# October 25, 2005 6:20 PM

Erik Porter said:

Ok, now a real comment...

Thanks, Jason, I really appreciate it. I'm definitely excited! :D
# October 25, 2005 7:23 PM

Scott C. Reynolds said:

make it say

I *Know* Raymond Lewallen
# October 25, 2005 11:13 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Heh....in the biblical sense...I like it.

I think it's gonna happen. Sorry Raymond, we'll be taking pics.
# October 25, 2005 11:55 PM

Scott C. Reynolds said:

dude i'm still page one results if you google "easpouse" I know. But that aside, EA would be an incredible experience and great resume fodder.

Yeah...netflix is a verb now. I use it all the time.
# October 26, 2005 3:18 AM

Bil Simser said:

Thanks for the link. I went around and checked out most of the SharePoint guys and posted it on my blog. BTW when I checked Scoble he came in about 2.2 million.
# October 26, 2005 11:36 AM

Seth said:

This update is breaking OWA for me on one workstation I have found on my network thus far. When logging into OWA, the email page gets stuck on Loading...

# October 26, 2005 11:43 AM

bestcomy said:

nice code.
# October 26, 2005 12:08 PM

Collin Yeadon said:

Bugger.. I got 1 wrong and it doesn't say which one.. "I should go buy a gun and shoot myself" is what I would have said in 8th grade.
# October 26, 2005 11:36 PM

Collin Yeadon said:

Ahh.. ok.. 5.5 squared I read to quick.. thought it was asking for the square root of 5.5 which would be no where nead 30.. Guess I don't need to buy that gun..

Math sucks.. :-)
# October 26, 2005 11:42 PM

Jason Mauss said:

actually - 5.5 squared is something like 27.5 - maybe you missed the mode/median/standard deviation question.
# October 26, 2005 11:54 PM

Web Hosting Review said:

My math is bad. :(
# October 27, 2005 5:48 AM

Raymond Lewallen said:

2.2mil, wow, that's pretty incredible being that its (scoble's blog) one of the most worthless and wasted spaces on the internet.
# October 27, 2005 10:05 AM

Jon Galloway said:

See my comment on Lance's post. I got an informal January 2006 from Rob at our user group meeting. It would be great to hear something official, even if it's "we hope to..."
# October 28, 2005 8:03 PM

Paschal said:

Well last time I posted something about that (8 months ago I think) Scott was talking avbout July 2005. Now January 2006, 2008, doesn't make sense.
I think if Scott don't have time, he should tryu to hand over the project to people witha bit of time ! (Not me please I have enough on my plate).
I am sure a lot of competent people would be happy to help here.
That's why community services and business are not usually good friends :-)
Also I am not sure if we need the whole kaboodle which is CS actually. Too bloated too much stuff unecessary.
Maybe just the new .Text engine inside CS, would be enough! Or radically move the whole stuff to another blog engine with more support and maintenance.
# October 28, 2005 8:44 PM

Alex Lowe said:

I just posted the following comment to Lance's post as well:

It is our intention to upgrade the weblogs.asp.net blogs to Community Server 2.0 once we ship (which should be in December).

The full answer is that weblogs.asp.net is very low in priority. Why? Lots of reasons but it mostly boils down to resources (people and software/hardware).

I'm not making excuses but will give you an idea of why the site has not been upgraded. Telligent manages the asp.net site and you'll notice that on asp.net we advertise. We advertise to subsidize the cost of having development resources (used to build the next www.asp.net on ASP.NET 2.0 and upgrade the forums to Community Server among other things). Both the forums and www.asp.net run ads....weblogs.asp.net does not. Right now, weblogs.asp.net does nothing but cost money to operate (which we're happy to contine to support of course). It's not cheap either as weblogs.asp.net draws about the same amount of traffic as the whole of www.asp.net (so there are both bandwidth and server resources being used). These are not reasons in and of themselves for the upgrade to not take place but they are the reason that it has had such a low priority.

There aren't any resources we can provide to migrate the posts to another blog. That's definitely unfortunate but it is true. Ironically, I believe it will be easier to migrate after we upgrade to CS 2.0.

Additionally, while it might seem like a simple and logical solution to "just let the community do it" - it's not that simple. The weblogs.asp.net domain runs on two web servers and a database server that it shares with other *.asp.net sites. The logistics of being able to provide an adequate account for you to just do the technical work required would drive us to just do the upgrade ourselves. =) I'm not saying it couldn't be done but it would be much harder than just saying 'have at it guys'. There are a lot of implications to allowing external folks to have access to the machines/sites owned by Microsoft.

It's not hard to just use blogs with Community Server. Have you seen blogs.msdn.com? What does Community Server bloat on that site?
# October 28, 2005 9:08 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks for the information Alex - that answers some questions. I'm definitely looking forward to being upgraded to CS 2.0 and thanks for continuing to provide this blogging service here.

I don't know about all the other people who have blogs here but - me personally - I wouldn't mind having ads on my blog if it helped you guys out.
# October 28, 2005 9:13 PM

Paschal said:

The difference with blogs.msdn.com is that I can#t blog there, it's obnly for Microsoft employees!
I hope I misunderstand, but it seems the idea is to push people doing their stuff elsewhere and close weblogs.asp.net. What a shame if it's true :-(
And the problem with the bandwidth let me laugh. If Microsoft can't handle it who will??
This is a community site and has a role as a role to play for Microsoft. So ads I don't mind, but the money collected should be controlled by the bloggers, not by Microsoft.
And a thing seems to be very unclear, who's in charge here? Scott, Alex or whoever? Teligent or Microsoft?
# October 29, 2005 6:22 AM

Alex Lowe said:

Paschal, you said that CS was too bloated to be used here and I was pointing out that it could be used here and that it was not too bloated for blogging (using blogs.msdn.com as an example). I didn't say that you could blog there or it was an alternative.

We don't want to push people elsewhere. At the same time, as I've already explained, we will make decisions about weblogs.asp.net based on resources. Hopefully everyone will hang on at least until we upgrade to CS 2.0.

The bandwidth alone is not a problem. It is, however, a cost that someone has to pay. One could argue that Microsoft should allocate more money to this project but I think you are overestimating the value that weblogs.asp.net brings Microsoft.

As I said in my original comment:

"Telligent manages the asp.net site and you'll notice that on asp.net we advertise. We advertise to subsidize the cost of having development resources (used to build the next www.asp.net on ASP.NET 2.0 and upgrade the forums to Community Server among other things). "

I thought it was pretty clear who is in charge. Telligent manages the day to day operations of all things *.asp.net. Microsoft obviously owns the domains and the content but they've delegated the work of maintaining the infrastcture, development, paying the bills, etc. to Telligent.

Because Telligent is paying the bills for the site, Telligent would collect any monies gained from showing ads. That money would of course be used to continue to improve all things *.asp.net (like migrating from CS 2.0 to CS 2.1 down the road, etc.).
# October 29, 2005 10:06 AM

Paschal said:

The strange thing Alex, and don't take that personal, is that you're coming out of the blue answering our questions. Why Scott is so silent? Who is part of the board to manage weblogs.asp.net? Who are you reharding weblogs.asp.net?
It's not looking like a very transparent project anyway. But I stay here just because I can use it to express my opinion
# October 29, 2005 10:47 AM

Alex Lowe said:

I suppose I'm coming out of the blue only because you don't hang out on www.asp.net for forums.asp.net. I've been the Program Manager for all of *.asp.net since February. I've managed the creation of beta.asp.net and the upgrade of the old forums to Community Server since that time. Regardless, the work and management of *.asp.net is not done by a "board" or a single person - it's done by a team of people at Telligent.

Don't worry about Scott. He's doing just fine and spends his time working on Community Server and managing that team of folks.
# October 29, 2005 11:03 AM

Scott said:

I am still here. This misconception is that I can read all of these blogs. If you have specific questions I can be contacted @ scottw at telligent dot com.

The contact form on my blog still works, but generally gets bombarded with lots of request. Not really excuse for not getting back to people...but it does complicate things.

My day to day responsibilities have shifted over the last year or so. Instead of doing all things .Text/weblogs.asp.net/CS myself, we now have various team members which are responsible for different tasks. In addition to being the PM on the www.asp.net work, Alex is also the lead PM on CS, so he is a great resource for questions related to the migration and management of this site.

We have been targeting updating this site to the post 1.1 bits of CS. Based on customer feedback/etc we expanded what when went into our vNext which is why the targeted upgrade time for this site has been pushed back until January 2006 or so. While it is possible to upgrade this site now, the management “tax” on managing sites on intermediary builds is quite large and can be very error prone. Rob/ScottD and others still blog on this site…so trust me; we want it updated as soon as it is possible. From the outside looking in, I can understand that it looks like a simple task, but there is much more to the problem.

HTH,
Scott
# October 29, 2005 11:21 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Thanks for spending some time here answering our questions - Scott and Alex. I'm sure lots of the weblogs.asp.net bloggers are looking forward to the 2.0 CS update in January.
# October 29, 2005 2:50 PM

Frans Bouma said:

"The bandwidth alone is not a problem. It is, however, a cost that someone has to pay. One could argue that Microsoft should allocate more money to this project but I think you are overestimating the value that weblogs.asp.net brings Microsoft. "
You're kidding, right?

Do a google search on any .NET problem. 10 to 1 that on the first page you get there is at least 1 weblogs.asp.net page listed.

Also, MS has one of the biggest pipes to the internet on the planet, last I heard it was several TB bandwidth. You're not going to sell me the idea that MS can't spend some bandwidth on a huge community resource for their .NET platform.
# October 30, 2005 5:17 AM

Alex Lowe said:

I've created a forum that will make it easy for us (Telligent) to share information and solicit feedback from the bloggers here at weblogs.asp.net. However, I need you to send me your username so I can add you to the appopriate role and give you more details. If you are interested in this kind of interaction then please send me your username via http://callmealex.com/contact.aspx

You can, of course, continue to post in the public whatever you want about Telligent. The forum will simply be a mechanism for us to share information that only pertains to the bloggers.
# October 30, 2005 10:13 PM

Dave Bouwman said:

Jason,

Nicely put. My theory is that many developers in the "sux" clan are sheltered from the business reality of software development, where what you write has to be worth the money someone paid you to develop it. And in the case of Microsoft, for the software to be worth something, it must be usable. Since their audience is "the world", the only way to get comprehensive feedback is to release it, and hope people actually provide feedback.

It would be interesting to hear from the "Live" team on the amount of feedback they are getting, and then check this against a blog search for live.com, and see how it stacks up.

Cheers,

Dave
# November 2, 2005 2:45 PM

Erik Porter said:

werd, brotha man!

I do have to wonder why MS keeps putting stuff out sooo early, because they have been getting a lot of negative comments. Maybe MS thinks it's worth it, not sure.

Definitely agree that the biggest problem is people aren't seeing the big picture about what this really is. Part of that can be blamed on people being stupid, but I also think part of it can be blamed on the marketing of it. But then again, it's so early, there really isn't any marketing for it. :P

Anyway, yah, good post...agreed.
# November 2, 2005 3:47 PM

Scott said:

Just found out over on Scobles blog that the start.com team also worked on the live.com project. Which makes the lack of Firefox support even more puzzling.

I'd love to give some feedback, but feedback on what? I've loaded up live.com in IE, ok can add gadgets. Just like start.com. I can search, just like start.com. I can add feeds, just like start.com. I can see my Hotmail. That's new.

So what am I supposed to be excited about? Microsofts potential?
# November 2, 2005 4:19 PM

Wim Hollebrandse said:

The whole point is that there's hardly a difference with start.com, as other people have rightly pointed out.

Not only that, but the fact that MS seems to have made such a big announcement about the site's launch and yet, to use your words, it's still rather unfinished and in progress.

I mean, let us know when there is something to check out that we can be excited about...for now it's just same old, same old.
# November 2, 2005 6:18 PM

Rob Lohman said:

I had a real chuckle on your login screen. Looks (and reads) awesome! Will be interesting to see how everything develops. Good luck!

Rob
visuar@iname.com
# November 3, 2005 7:59 AM

Ron Shelton said:

I think MS make it worse for themselves in the way they hype this stuff up. The press release I read about Windows Live made it sound like MS had redesigned the Internet.

While it's a nice simple portal site, Live.com is far from living up to the hype that has been created. I think the possibility of community developed gadgets makes it a potential hit, but we will have to wait and see.

As for the other "Live" offerings like:

Online Virus Scanner - McAfee and others have had this for a long time, and many of us remember MS's last attempt at created virus scanning software.

Search - Google works fine for my searching needs, and last time I fell for the hype from MS and tried using the new search the released on MSN a few months back - I was sorely dissappointed.

IM - Doesn't sound like anything new and exciting (Press released mentioned sharing files and pictures - oooo). Internet based voice calls has been around a loooong time.

OneCare - Sounds exactly like Windows Update.

The mobile favorites sounds promising.

Had the hype not been so overdone, people might be more accepting - but you feel like someone is playing a joke on you when the hype vs. content differ this much. It's bound to get some backlash. Eventually, the backlash will subside and people will start to give it more of a chance.

# November 3, 2005 8:25 AM

Ron Shelton said:

Just thought I would add some case evidence to support my argument:

Bill Gates speaking about Windows Live:

"It's a revolution in how we think about software," Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates told reporters and industry analysts Tuesday. "This is a big change for...every part of the ecosystem."

Later in the same article, the author notes:

"In many cases, Windows Live -- available at Live.com -- will offer souped-up versions of services like online mapping and instant messaging that have long been available on Microsoft's MSN.com, a heavily trafficked site that will continue to operate."

Source:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/biztech/11/02/microsoft.online.ap/index.html?section=cnn_tech
# November 3, 2005 2:51 PM

Erik Porter said:

Lookin' good so far, Jason! :)
# November 3, 2005 2:54 PM

Ron Shelton said:

DevCampus is incredible. It's going to revolutionize the way we as humans think and form ideas. It will have a profound effect on every aspect of every waking and non-waking moment of our lives!

Just kidding - actually it does look pretty cool. I like the UI - very sleek. Looking foward to your launch.

# November 3, 2005 5:10 PM

Jason Mauss said:

LOL @ Ron

I can't wait to reveal my DevCampus "Live" service to you guys.. hahaha
# November 3, 2005 5:27 PM

Alex Papadimoulis said:

Holy fxing crap. The "real" one is so much cooler than the one in Detroit. I see you have no mention of abundant amounts of free food. Sure, it's no AC/DC, but it was the highlight of my Launch Party experience. Woo.
# November 9, 2005 10:10 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Oh, there was plenty of free food too Alex - everywhere you turned there was a table full of food. They probably even had a lot of left over food from lunch and the after party.
# November 9, 2005 12:37 PM

BradC said:

Wow, the OC Chopper folks were there?

Is that a custom Microsoft Bike of some sort? The pictures look very cool, but don't show much detail about it.
# November 9, 2005 12:50 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Hey Brad - yeah that was a custom Microsoft Bike that was made for the "SQL Server Giveaway" - they were showing it off at the event. They also raffled off some nice leather OC Chopper jackets during the event.
# November 9, 2005 1:37 PM

Alex Papadimoulis said:

Allright Jason, you inspried me to write my *own* review. I still am incredibly jealous, by the way. :-P

http://weblogs.asp.net/alex_papadimoulis/archive/2005/11/09/430091.aspx
# November 9, 2005 1:51 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Nice post Alex - I see they handed out the free Rockstar "Pseudo-Energy" drinks at yours too, eh?
# November 9, 2005 1:57 PM

Jason F said:

I was fortunate to have attended both events (got a little sleep on the red-eye in between). There's a lot already on my blog, but I've got more pictures and at least two more posts to write before I think I've done a complete braindump of the back-to-back experience.

I would summarize in saying that I was a little disappointed with Detroit's event, chiefly because I saw what spending hundreds of thousands of dollars more on an event gives you. But, in talking with event attendees, they were pretty happy with Detroit's overall, and that's all that matters.
# November 9, 2005 10:41 PM

Mihir Solanki said:

Excellent, Its on my desktop now ...
# November 11, 2005 4:04 AM

Eric Hammersley said:

Very nice... thanks for taking the time to post your work.
# November 11, 2005 8:26 AM

Sonu Kapoor said:

I like it. Its on my desktop :)
# November 11, 2005 10:30 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Glad you guys like it enough to put it on your desktop! :)
# November 11, 2005 10:48 AM

Sonu Kapoor said:

One feedback: I dont like the small icons in there. They conflict with my existing icons on the desktop - otherwise very nice.
# November 11, 2005 3:56 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Hi Sonu - if you'd like I could remove the icons for you if you want to use it...it's just a layer of the image. If you want to let me know what resolution you need.
# November 11, 2005 6:13 PM

Kumar said:

I agree with Sonu Kapoor. The small icons infact conflict with the icons on the desktop. It would be nice if you can make an alternative wallpaper
# November 11, 2005 6:20 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Well then - I've put up each resolution without the icons now. Thanks for the feedback!
# November 11, 2005 6:30 PM

Sonu Kapoor said:

Looks great now Jason. I am using it on my personal laptop at home as well. Thanks ;)
# November 11, 2005 7:34 PM

DonX said:

Isn't this one of those "get a life" moments?
# November 11, 2005 9:45 PM

Keyvan Nayyeri said:

Thank you for these great wallpapers :)
# November 11, 2005 11:50 PM

Farsi said:

Very nice background with amazing colours.
# November 12, 2005 7:12 AM

Frans Bouma said:

Don't laugh, but there are actually a couple of MSN MVP's... :)
# November 13, 2005 6:23 AM

David Findley said:

A MVP logo for solitare would be kinda funny as well. I'm my own MVP! or I'm an SOL MVP.
# November 13, 2005 7:44 AM

David Findley said:

Oh one more thing: I'm sure when you said "photoshop" you really meant "MS Expression Graphic Designer" aka Acrylic.

just kidding.
# November 13, 2005 7:47 AM

Stefano Demiliani said:

I want to be an MVP for Notepad! :)
# November 13, 2005 8:14 AM

Scott Allen said:

It's the XBOX MVPs who make the real sacrifices.
# November 13, 2005 9:23 AM

Marcus Mac Innes said:

Hillarious!
# November 13, 2005 12:07 PM

Emrah ÖZcan said:

I want to be the MVP for C#! (:))
# November 13, 2005 2:34 PM

BradC said:

Heh. Minesweeper mvp?
# November 13, 2005 4:33 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Frans - Seriously? Wow...I guess they...uhh...wait ..I have no idea how you could become an MSN MVP.

Solitaire, Minesweeper and Notepad...haha I'm gonna have to make those as well.
# November 13, 2005 4:38 PM

Marcie said:

I want to be a Command Prompt MVP.
# November 13, 2005 9:14 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Oohh - that's a good one Marcie - come back in a little while and I'll have it made for ya
# November 13, 2005 9:17 PM

Alex Papadimoulis said:

Congratulations, man. All those hours chatting on the IM did pay off afterall!
# November 13, 2005 11:56 PM

Frans Bouma said:

" Frans - Seriously? Wow...I guess they...uhh...wait ..I have no idea how you could become an MSN MVP. "
Me neither, but at the summit, everyone had a badge with a given color. I saw a guy who had a color I hadn't seen on any other badges... I looked closer... MSN MVP.

Now, msn has a lot of options, but still... oh well. If he's happy, I'm happy ;)
# November 14, 2005 5:04 AM

Web Hosting Review said:

It's cool ! :)
# November 14, 2005 5:41 AM

Tim Marman said:

By the way, it's "flair" not "flare".
# November 14, 2005 8:07 AM

Omer van Kloeten said:

I want to be a Microsoft Linux MVP! :D
# November 14, 2005 12:22 PM

Scott Bellware said:

I want to be a Typed DataSet MVP. If you could make a logo with a guy with an ass where his head should be, I think that should about do it :)
# November 15, 2005 5:40 PM

alessio.marziali said:

On my desktop.
Nice Work! Thanks!
# November 18, 2005 10:55 AM

Darren Neese said:

OMG!

Dude, I'm worried about you man...are you still taking your meds?

Years back you were a charter member MCSD in .net...then a few weeks back I heard you were doing animated gif's...now you're got your MOUS (not to be confused with MAUSS) cert in Word....omg..now an msn mvp.

...and to think you were the top expert on askme.com on programming. :(
# November 21, 2005 3:33 AM

Darren Neese said:

OMG...

I find your stereotype of African-American / Hispanic / bouncer / security guy offensive. Please change!
# November 21, 2005 3:36 AM

Scott C. Reynolds said:

No page curl?
# November 22, 2005 12:27 PM

Marcie said:

How about Volume Control MVP? Now there's a Microsoft technology I really feel like I've got down pat.
# December 1, 2005 12:54 PM

Stephen Swienton said:

If Marcie is going to by a Volume Control MVP, then I want to be the Sound Recorder MVP. No, wait - I want to be the Character Map MVP!! © ۞ ♀
# December 1, 2005 5:58 PM

Andy said:

How about Windows Tour MVP ;-)
# December 1, 2005 6:00 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Hahaha, you guys are nuts. Volume Control, Sound Recorder, and Charmap. Oh, and Windows Tour, lol. Maybe there can be a balloon help MVP, too. "I can show people how to click their balloon help like nobody's bueinss!".
# December 1, 2005 6:14 PM

Stephen Swienton said:

Nice, balloon help, almost as good as my Windows "Toast" MVP
# December 1, 2005 6:32 PM

David Stone said:

How about a Start Button MVP?
# December 1, 2005 6:59 PM

jayson knight said:

I'm a folder options MVP by all definitions...on a fresh install of Windows I can change the folder options to what I need in under a minute :-).
# December 2, 2005 2:21 AM

Jason Mauss said:

You're not the only one Jayson. ;-)

Hide extensions for commonly known file types. un-check
Show hidden files and folders. - check
Display the contents of system folders. - check
Hide protected operating system files. - uncheck. YES, I'm sure.
Remember each folders view settings. - uncheck.
Show Control Panel in My Computer. - check.

And most importantly - "Apply to All Folders" - heh...that's all I can remember from memory....
# December 2, 2005 2:25 AM

Marcie said:

Oh good, if Swienton is Sound Recorder MVP, as Volume Control MVP I can finally make him be silent! ;)

Marcie
# December 2, 2005 8:36 AM

jayson knight said:

Hey Jason...none of the images are displaying, and I hotlinked to the notepad MVP one so it's blanking out on my site (yeah, I should have copied it to my drive I guess).

And yeah, those are the exact steps for folder options!
# December 2, 2005 7:19 PM

Jason Mauss said:

I'll check on the server they are hosted on. They're not displaying on my blog, either, which makes me think maybe the server they're on is down or something. They'll be back up soon, probably. They're on a server at MaximumASP.
# December 2, 2005 7:22 PM

Ryan said:

You're missing the obvious one... "Screensaver MVP". I'm awesome at making that work.

"Hmmm, the screensaver isn't on? OK, don't use the mouse and keyboard for awhile... That did it? Sweet! Anytime you need help with the screensaver just ask."
# December 2, 2005 9:58 PM

Jay Miller said:

Thanks for the heads up. I spoke with Jon Thursday and seeing you post and took a technical test last night. I'm hoping I'll be part of the ASPSOFT team soon.

Jay
# December 3, 2005 11:09 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Cool Jay - hope things work out for you. Glad to hear my post was actually helpful. :)
# December 3, 2005 2:07 PM

jayson knight said:

So what's your alias over on the CS.org website? Welcome to the big bad world of CS!
# December 3, 2005 7:05 PM

Jason Mauss said:

my alias over there is 'jamauss'
# December 3, 2005 9:13 PM

Bill said:

J - My girlfriend Kim is a technical writer and she's been working toward learning to be an ASP.NET developer. If you guys could use a volunteer that's a professional technical writer and literate in ASP.NET, let me know and I'll put y'all in contact with each other, I *know* she'd be very excited to volunteer on that. And besides, putting her in contact with you would get her some exposure to experienced ASP.NET devs - the whole CC thing I mentioned on my blog left her a little out in left field ;-)
# December 6, 2005 7:02 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Awesome Bill - if you want to, send me her e-mail addy (through my contact form on here) and I'll hook her up with some info and let her see/hear what she'd be getting herself into ;-)

I think CC probably leaves everyone feeling a little...out of place...heh.
# December 6, 2005 7:07 PM

Bill said:

Lucky SOB - Tufte is the friggin coolest. Did you get any of his artwork?
# December 9, 2005 10:22 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Ya, I got the Minard poster of Napoleon's Army march to Russia and back and also one other one, forgot what it was called. And yeah, Tufte is awesome. It's like the guy know everything about everything.
# December 9, 2005 1:43 PM

Wim Hollebrandse said:

Good stuff.

It's an indication of the general level of support from big companies dealing in electronic equipment, that we seem almost amazed when this kinda thing happens.
# December 10, 2005 2:10 PM

Shunjie said:

My LCD monitor is having the same problem too!!

Just from personal experience, a list of good n bad vendors for customer service:

Fujitsu - Very good. Very friendly and approachable. I am a geek and so they speak with me in geek terms (all the hardware stuff, etc..haha)

O2 - Eh...no good. I send in my xphone2 and they promise to help me upgrade firmware and its not done. Xphone2 hang for countless times after the repair. I wonder wat they have done.

Creative - Not bad. =)

Samsung - Not sure. But my mp3 player just spoilt in less than 4 months. Gg to the support center tomoro. ha.
# December 12, 2005 11:33 AM

Raymond Lewallen said:

Personally, I, in general, have good customer service experiences, with the exception of Dell. And as far as Dell is concerned, its not the customer service I have a problem with. Its their policies regarding warranties and replacements of parts and/or products.
# December 12, 2005 11:35 AM

Bawb said:

Bih' when you gonna make nother' post. Bawss would be mighty proud of you if you were to do so.
# December 23, 2005 2:26 PM

Plip said:

What is Newsvine ?
# January 6, 2006 4:44 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Hey Phil - it's similar to Digg. Newsvine is kind of a social news network.
# January 6, 2006 4:52 AM

Stefano Demiliani said:

I can agree with you that DHTML will be the winner but don't deprecate too much ClickOnce and Smart Client Applications. Smart Client are an extremely powerful technology that can bring together the advantages of a Winform application and web application, with the (enormous) advantage that they can work connected or disconnected from the network. I believe a lot on them... :)
# January 6, 2006 8:16 AM

Valentin Iliescu [MVP C#] said:

What about Web Browser Application (WBA) concept from WPF/Avalon?

1. No deployment - online mode only. OK, the application is deployed and run on the client, but this is done in a transparent way (no end-user interaction)
2. In Vista they will just work - no plug-in installation etc.
3. Visually rich.

# January 6, 2006 12:34 PM

Jason Mauss said:

While I would agree that WPF/Avalon shows promise...I think it still has to prove itself.
# January 6, 2006 2:14 PM

Paul Ballard said:

So DHTML = DOG? I'd buy that! I won't bother going through all of the various arguments I have against AJAX, you can read that in my blog, but I think you are declaring a winner before the fight is really getting started. Also, don't think that just because YOU have never had a network outage that nobody else has. We are geeks with ethernet cables in every room, internet on our phones, etc. We are NOT the norm.
# January 6, 2006 2:17 PM

Abdu said:


Winform works in Windows only therefore I don't expect it to prevail regardless if it's superior.
# January 6, 2006 6:21 PM

David Findley said:

It looks as if your logged on as administrator so that bad boy is running with full privliges! Yikes!
# January 8, 2006 10:11 PM

David Findley said:

Btw, I've been running mine 24/7 and msnmsgr.exe is only using about 20M. Google talk is using about 10M. So considering how much more bloated uhmmm I mean feature rich Live Messenger is this doesnt seem to bad to me.

I'm thinking this is why the have a Beta program. To uncover these problems.
# January 8, 2006 10:14 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Yeah, on that machine (it's a machine I use just for testing out Beta's, CTP's, Release Candidates, etc.) I usually log in as admin, otherwise I get a rash of error messages informing me I don't have privileges to do x, y, and z.

After killing the msnmsgr.exe process and running it again (and just closing it to the notification area - not IM'ing anyone or anything) it's using 42mb or memory. The machine it's running on has 1.5gb of memory so it's not a huge problem, though.
# January 8, 2006 10:38 PM

jayson knight said:

42mb is still a bit heavy IMO, especially since my Trillian is sitting at ~10mb :-). That being said, I also gave the WLM beta a test run over the weekend, and absolutely hated it. Looks like they're targeting teenie-boppers. Maybe they'll offer versions based on age range.
# January 9, 2006 2:21 AM

Bil Simser said:

Not sure why yours is running so high, I run mine all the time and it never caps over 15mb which is fine IMHO.
# January 9, 2006 2:26 AM

David Taylor said:

I hope they are reading your blog....that is the sort of thing a dev might not pick up immediately.
# January 9, 2006 3:59 AM

Keith Ellis said:

I've followed sifr for a few years now and would love an invite if you have any extra.
# January 9, 2006 7:47 AM

AndrewSeven said:

I willing to tolerate a lot in order to have Offline Messages, but there is still a limit.

After a bit of usage, the only other change that I've noticed is the ugly and clunky UI.

One person I sent an invite to even said : "the orange thing make me feel sick"
# January 9, 2006 10:43 AM

jayson knight said:

@Andrew: The newest MSN plugin for Trillian 3.x supports offline messages out of the box...just an FYI.
# January 9, 2006 5:49 PM

Nish said:

I ran into this too - but that was before I had any invites. Once I got some invites, that link worked properly. It's a beta and it really behaves like a beta, eh? :-)
# January 9, 2006 10:36 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Ya man, kind of an understatement, really.
# January 9, 2006 11:15 PM

Matt Hawley said:

Same here - just go to ideas.live.com and once you log into passport, you'll see "You have X number of invites - Send Invite" or something like that for the Windows Live Messenger Beta section.
# January 10, 2006 1:45 AM

Deepesh Shah said:

Hey,

Once you sign in at ideas.live.com and then visit the Live messenger section you should see the red link for your number of invites (if you have any)

# January 10, 2006 6:37 AM

AndrewSeven said:

LOL

When I first clicked it, it worked, it told me that I had no invites.
Eventualy I got some invites.
Yesterday I tried to use it to send an invite and got the bad url
# January 10, 2006 8:58 PM

Joe Philipson said:

If anyone has any invites I'd like one please...

Thanks,
Joe
# January 10, 2006 10:09 PM

Jason Mauss said:

What's your e-mail address Joe? get that to me and I'll invite you.
# January 10, 2006 11:53 PM

sandro said:

hi jason, could you please invite me?

sandro at tank.no please!

cheers
# January 12, 2006 9:16 AM

troy said:

Invite troberson at daxko.com
# January 12, 2006 3:09 PM

backpacker said:

I'd also appreciate an invitation for backpack at eigenarbeit dot org
thanks!
# January 12, 2006 4:33 PM

Jason Mauss said:

backpacker - I don't have any invitations to give out for BackPack, sorry...that's why the post said "Newsvine" in it.
# January 12, 2006 4:35 PM

spantizzle said:

does anyone have any spare invites?
I would like one too.
# January 13, 2006 12:03 AM

trick said:

I think "backpack at eigenarbeit dot org" is the dude's email, he's asking for a newsvine invite.

i'd like one too if you still have some. mattpalmer at gmail dot com
# January 13, 2006 1:00 PM

Bill said:

Jason - is the version you're using "Windows Live Messenger"? If not, are you interested in it?
# January 14, 2006 7:30 PM

Jason Mauss said:

Yeah, it's the "Windows Live Messenger".
# January 14, 2006 7:46 PM

Christian said:

does anyone have any spare invites?
I also would like one.
Many thaks,
Christian
cceleste (at) gmail.com
# January 22, 2006 6:38 AM

Cesar said:

is there any spare invite left?
i would really like one!
thank you anyhow

cesarpn at gmail dot com
# January 23, 2006 8:36 AM

Rachel Baker said:

If any is still dishing out the invites!

sm4llphry at gmail.com
# January 23, 2006 1:06 PM

lauone said:

lauone at gmail.com
# January 24, 2006 12:49 AM

Michael said:

Hey, I'm really into social news site, and I would love to check out newsvine. If anyone has an extra invite i would love one. rdknight82@gmail.com
Thanks
# January 24, 2006 8:07 AM

Eduardo said:

hi jason, could you please invite me?
eduvieira at gmail
thank you!
# January 24, 2006 10:18 AM

dezao said:

inviti me, please!!!
dezaodemais@gmail.com
# January 24, 2006 11:58 AM

Aaron said:

I'd like to be an invite leech too! :-)

Many thanks.

aaron r benson at gmail dot com
# January 24, 2006 1:54 PM

Jeremy Botter said:

I realize everyone is asking over and over again for an invite, but I figured I'd toss my name up here just in case. botterATgmail.com.
# January 24, 2006 10:16 PM

Michael said:

Jason, Thank You for the invite. Totally appericate it!
# January 25, 2006 8:33 AM

Jon said:

If still giving out invites to the beta, please to be inviting, crapulent@gmail.com

thank you
# January 26, 2006 1:47 AM

CadMnky said:

I'd like an invite if you still have some availible

cadmnky at yahoo dot com
# January 26, 2006 10:04 AM

Jason Mauss said:

Just so everyone is aware - I'm all out of invites. I was given 20 and they're all used up. Sorry folks.
# January 26, 2006 2:03 PM

systemX said:

yo Jason, im glad i found someone with the same problem :), mine showed 300,000 K mem usage :(, i emailed the wlm people about it, hope they fix it.
# January 31, 2006 3:01 PM

Keyvan Nayyeri said:


 In last week I found some cool links about Visual Studio 2005 and ASP.NET 2.0:

Building .NET 1.1...
# May 28, 2006 11:51 AM

Keyvan Nayyeri said:

In last week I found some cool links about Visual Studio 2005 and ASP.NET 2.0: Building .NET 1.1 Projects

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Blog by Bob said:

 

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# May 22, 2007 4:56 PM

Digi said:

Wow!

Thanks man!

I'm in Norway, In 3 years I did only get 50-60Kbs, after this change i do now get 620kbs!!!! a 10x increase!!

I have reported the speed issue here in Europe to MSDN several times, but I have not notest any improvement the last 2-3 years.

If not MSDN do something soon about this speed issue will this be my last year as subscripter!!

Anyway, again thanks for the tip, it saved my day!

/Digi

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Jeez.. I was thinking square root I guess.. oh well this post is 2 years old almost.. no big deal.

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Savvas said:

Sorry :(

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Giatas said:

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The Coffeehouse said:

Anybody want to meet up for breakfast beforehand?

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Angelos said:

Cool!

# July 1, 2007 10:56 AM

lcd said:

If I read Samsung's LCD warranty correctly, the  replacement monitor will be a refurbished unit, not a new one. This seems standard policy with most companies.

# July 22, 2007 9:01 AM

Sean C said:

Xheo and Desaware are the only ones that "seem" to exist - They both suck at customer service and dont even publish a phone number. Some developers doing this part time I guess. If you want to rely on these for your entire business, go figure

# August 3, 2007 4:17 PM

Rod Howarth said:

The links are dead :( any more mirrors?

Rod

http://roddotnet.blogspot.com

# August 23, 2007 9:52 PM

Henrik Goldman said:

As Sean points out it's important to have a vendor you can rely on. We do publish our phone number and have an attractive alternative to those products. Regardless of you're a small or large our product LM-X License Manager can help you out.

Besides we have proper customer support and strive towards resolving problems within 24 hours. In most cases for serious issues the time is usually much less than 6 hours.

Read more at www.x-formation.com/.../index.html

-- Henrik

# August 25, 2007 11:30 AM

Beckyy =) said:

I DNOR WUT THIS IS :D LMAO

# September 6, 2007 2:02 PM

Workhorse said:

I'm getting about 450 kbps with this configuration, which is about a 10-fold increase over my old speed. Thanks much!

# September 7, 2007 7:12 PM

Andrey Murzov said:

We are on the market with our Manco .NET Licensing System since 2005. Our product supports .NET 1.1, 2.0 and 3.0. Strong license file and unlock key encryption. Flexible license file content. Create encrypted code and data.

We also have good customer support and usually answer within 24 hours. In most cases you can get response within 4-6 hours. In emergency cases we provide online support using MSN Messager.

Read more at: www.mancosoftware.com/.../index.htm

Andrey

# September 10, 2007 8:56 AM

Dennis S. said:

I am also looking for a .NET license manager.  I downloaded the XHEO trial, but I really had to fight with it to get anything to work.  I agree with Sean C that there support is a bit half-hearted.

I would really like to not buy XHEO if I could.

# September 25, 2007 3:21 PM

Evan said:

Whenever I login into VSS, its not asking for the credentials and it opens up the last accessed project path. Since its not asking for the credentials its not maintaining the settings of Working folder.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!!!

# October 5, 2007 9:13 AM

Grant Frisken said:

Infralution has a simple, secure and affordable .NET licensing solution which has been on the market since 2004.   Most importantly we have open support forums - so you can check out our level of support and see what issues other users may be having before you decide to purchase.

You can get more information at:

www.infralution.com/licensing.html

Grant

# October 7, 2007 9:07 PM

Chad said:

lol, thats hilarious. Can't believe we didn't think of that sooner. I guess I'll have to change all my tables named "BigMoneyIfYouCrackIt" to something less obvious, who woulda thunk it. How about "PersonalMedicalFilesINSIDE!". Brilliant.

# October 23, 2007 6:04 PM

Chad said:

Sorry I got another one... what do you think the top-level most secretive government information table is called in their database? Probly some randomly generated sequence of letters and numbers or something... but imagine what it was back before people thought about it... "TopSecret" perhaps? Or wait, maybe they followed this convention, "TopSecrets", yup, that sounds better =p

# October 23, 2007 6:16 PM

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# November 8, 2007 10:23 AM

Zarani Barrow said:

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Thanks.

Zarani W. Barrow

# November 19, 2007 3:02 PM

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# November 25, 2007 8:34 AM

deltawing said:

I have a dilemna whether to use plural or singular table names.

This is because in English plural names are not always formed in the same way. E.g. car->cars, quiz->quizzes->ox-oxen (or some people may think it's oxes or just ox). Then you have fish->fish as well as data->data. This might cause some confusion among team members as to what the naming convention really is.

Borrowing form Object Oriented theory, class names must always be singular, although multiple instances of it may be created. Granted, relational theory is not OO theory.

The PHP framework I am testing out now (CakePHP) always uses plurals for table names. But CakePHP has an inflector which automatically knows the plural form of any given noun.

The dilemna continues. It may seem a trivial one, but convention is certainly important.

# December 3, 2007 8:47 PM

.net Developer said:

how about developing your own licensing techniques using .net framework, XHEO uses the same .lic files anyway

have a look at this article

windowsclient.net/.../Licensing.aspx

# December 4, 2007 8:19 AM

Ben said:

I've used XHEO for a while now, and to be honest I'm not really satisfied with it. It increased the size of my component library by triple, it's got a lot of bells and whistles in the library itself that I don't feel I really need. The customer service leaves a bit to be desired, but I know it's just one or two guys working part time from home, and I can tolerate that because I'm doing the samething.

Anyhow, you're best off developing your own Licensing system if you have the ability. It's worth the trouble if you really want to protect your software.

# December 12, 2007 2:34 PM

Mitch said:

Regarding table names being plural or singular:

IMHO it depends on what each row in the table represents. In the majority of applications, each row models a singular object or type of object.

# January 18, 2008 4:58 PM

Roxy said:

I dont use Live Messenger...thanks for alerting me I will stick to yahoo.

# January 18, 2008 7:46 PM

Doeyull said:

this article has been very helpful for me to write a convention document of our company. thank you~

# February 15, 2008 5:17 AM

Dear Dad said:

I had to get an aol email so i could talk to my kids. It is the only reason i would bother with this slow bull^%@&

# February 25, 2008 3:29 PM

Ruben Bentein said:

I had this same error; ASP + ADO does not allow other result fillings after a CLOB.

This won't work

resultSet.fields("someOtherField1").value = "foo"

resultSet.fields("someCLOBField").appendChunk("bar")

resultSet.fields("someOtherField2").value = "foo"

But this will work

resultSet.fields("someOtherField").value = "foo"

resultSet.fields("someCLOBField1").appendChunk("bar")

resultSet.fields("someCLOBField2").appendChunk("bar")

Not the exact same problem, but usefull for other people who look at this thread.

# April 2, 2008 1:08 PM

Anagha said:

Oh!! Jason, I could hug you!  Thank you thank you! I fought with this thing for so long and was about to give up. did not want to include the extremely tedious microsoft code and thought "somebody" should make this easier and they did. Thanks wsh team!

# May 28, 2008 3:22 PM

Mark said:

Not to beat a dead horse (because PETA would have a fit), but concerning the plurality of table names. Here's my "thinking out loud".  Is it so bad to have table names "naturally plural" and the pk columns singular?  For example, the Activities table has a primary key field of ActivityId.  The table does contain a group of activities, and the individual row contains one activity and is therefore named ActivityId.

What I mean about "naturally plural" is if you have a table "Fish" it contains a collection of multiple fish.  The primary key column would also be named fish, which is the singular form of the word because one row is one (singular) fish.

Like I said, just thinking out loud.

Mark

# May 29, 2008 11:33 AM

ff_mac said:

Avoid Generic Field Names

Do not use generic field names like status.  There can be many different kinds of status: account, customer, order, payment, product, etc.  This makes it easy, for example, to find all references to orderStatus.  It may make the names longer, but is well worth it in a large DB.

DateAdded

Many tables need a dateAdded field.  Use the same name in all tables or you’ll go nuts having to look up what it is called.  For example auditlog.dateadded and orders.dateadded instead of auditlog.logdate and orders.orderdate.

Primary Keys and Foreign Keys

Many people advocate calling the PK field ID and FK fields tablenameID.  One good thing about this is that it lets you easily find FK references.  The bad thing about it is that it becomes very difficult to find all primary key references for a given table, since they are all named ID.

Using tablenameID for both FK and PK gets rid of the name collision of the ID field but means that you can’t easily find FK references separate from PK references.

An alternative is to name PK as tablenamePK and FK as tablenameFK.  This is the easiest way to quickly find whatever it is that you are looking for.  The only problem is that some people have been using ID for so long that they have a hard time adjusting to PK/FK.  However, as long as it is done consistently then coding is very easy, e.g. where table1.table1pk=table2.table1fk.

# June 3, 2008 1:01 PM

Tariq Changgez said:

This article is a great source for developers. I in the initial stage of designing an HR + Payroll application database, and I will apply most of the rules specified in this article.  

By the way I just shifted from Delphi (Pascal based) environement to Visual Studio, and I am quite comfortable with Pascal type naming convensions.

Great Job.

# June 4, 2008 3:07 AM

Mark Brady said:

@ Tariq:

An HR/Payroll app? Really? that hasn't been done to death?

ff_mac said "Using tablenameID for both FK and PK gets rid of the name collision of the ID field but means that you can’t easily find FK references separate from PK references."

Huh? you have no constraint table to query that defines PKs and FKs. No it's not hard to tell the difference in any real RDBMS. What is hard is to find missing constraints left by sloppy developers when the column changes name from table to table.

Plural table names: I can always tell the people who never script changes to their databases. If you have a COMPANIES table is the ID column Companies_ID? That makes no sense. When you start to write code that builds code, you'll want this to be very, very regular.

%table_name% = Name of the table.

%table_name%_ID = Name of the PK Column

%table_name%_PK = Name of the PK Constraint.

If I had to guess at plurals it would make this process much more difficult.

# June 18, 2008 12:44 PM

Parag Shah said:

is it possible to have VSS userid / password to be directly sign in with my network credentials so that once i log on to machine with my id, it should use same userid/password.

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# July 17, 2008 5:52 PM

Xerxes said:

i've seen a lot of different architectures over the years, and i've found that there's no one "right design - most good design techniques seem to work well...Having said that, there are a lot of bad ways of doing it too ;)

Under a pure BusinessObject model, you'd implement it using the former style - all logic related to operating on the User is contained within the user. Downside with that approach is that your User object becomes quite heavy. In some cases you'll find that you cant instantiate an object without also instantiating other dependencies. On the positive side however, you've achieved 100% OO encapsulation. As a side note, if you subclass User and create a SpecialUser, you can override the save behaviour unique to this new class.

If you implement it using the latter, you're still achieving similar results, and you're still ensuring separation of concerns, but you're allowing for other objects which may inherit from User to also use that core functionality without being able to change it, as in the example above. eg: The SpecialUser could also be saved under this approach. If the intention was that the SpecialUser cannot be saved, then you'll now have to implement that logic in your Security class, rather than being able to override the implementation of SpecialUser. If you do go down this approach, I'd recommend passing interfaces rather than classes as method arguments. Using interfaces will make it easier to mock test your code.

just my $0.02

# July 17, 2008 6:52 PM

Ian Qvist said:

It depends on the demands of the application. Should you focus on extensibility? (Service pattern, modules, third party authentication systems) Consistency? (Factory pattern) or something else?

I would personally base my design on extensibility. Later you might switch to something like OpenID for authentication and that would be easier if you had a clear interface between your application and the authentication mechanism.

Abstract away the authentication part. Make sure to use interfaces (as minimal as possible. By that I mean lightweight) to define a low coupled architecture between application and authentication.

As for the registration part, do as you see fit. I would do the same thing as with the authentication part.

BTW: Why not use a DAL (Data Access Layer) generation tool such as Subsonic, NHibernate or LINQ?

# July 17, 2008 8:20 PM

Andrew said:

According to Bertrand Meyer’s “Object-Oriented Software Construction”, the essence of object-oriented is that instead of a bunch of functions, and a bunch of data, pieces of data are grouped together with the functions that operate on them into things called “objects”.

So if your register method doesn’t actually operate on data in the user object -- it uses the user data as input but does it’s actual work on a central database -- then the register() method doesn’t belong in the user class.

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Samuel said:

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# October 19, 2008 3:57 PM

Ellipter said:

Ellipter is a .NET licensing solution based on Elliptic Curves Asymmetric Cryptography. It is the easiest to use solution on the market - just 3 lines of code are required to secure a .NET product.

http://ellipter.com/

# October 24, 2008 2:17 AM

Antony said:

The hyperlinks in WORD and EXCEL stored in VSS dont work. Any remedy?

# October 28, 2008 5:34 PM

Dave Townsend said:

Thank you. It was very helpful

# November 4, 2008 2:28 AM

Saikat said:

Great help! i was tired sick of entering the user credentials each time of login!! Your tip saved me some fustration :-D

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Jyoti said:

Hi All,

I am planning to purchase buy a hard copy of book "Pragmatic Unit Testing in C#" using NUnit 2.4.

I have e copy of this book and found to be useful to know basic concepts. Presently I am performing unit testing in my project.

Regards,

Jyoti

Bangalore, India

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SA said:

Hi, Why do you advice againt prefixing column names with the datatype ie intNumber och strName ?

Thanks

# November 14, 2008 8:45 AM

S Jain said:

The keywords expansion in WORD and EXCEL stored in VSS are not working. Any remedy?

Thanks in Advance.

# December 2, 2008 1:05 AM

Ram said:

when i tried to create a new project under the VSS root folder am getting the following error and i couldn't crete any new folders even i have Admin rights.

i am getting the follwing error.

" File c:\vss\data\a\aaaaaaaa is already open" please help how to solve this problem.

# December 3, 2008 4:28 AM

Kurt Redling said:

In our .Net solution I have added $History: $ and $Log: $ to our source files (actually I am testing it with just a couple of files first).  We have both *.vb (VB.NET) and *.cs (C#) files in the solution.  I added the Key Words to both a C# file and a VB.NET file.  After checking in I can view the file in Source Safe and the C# file expands the Key Words as expected, but the VB.NET file did not expand them.  The same goes when I try to view the file with Visual Studio.

In my srcsafe.ini file . . .

Keyword_Masks = *.vb, *.cs

[Keyword Comments]

*.vb = "' "

*.cs = "// "

Any idea what I did wrong for the VB.NET files?

Thanks in advance,

Kurt

# December 9, 2008 4:18 PM

Kurt Redling said:

Forget my last posting.  I figured it out.

Thanks!

# December 9, 2008 9:40 PM

Danny Penn said:

Jason,

I to had fought for a whole day trying to get excel spreadsheets to print to different printers, without any luck until I ran across your site.  Thanks very much for the great suggestion.

Danny

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# December 27, 2008 3:45 PM

Adrian Smith said:

Putting enums in code mean that the code (and thus the enums) can be stored in a version control system.

I had the situation once that a value went "missing" from a production system in an "enum table" (i.e. a small table which never changed which just stored possible values for some field). The row just got deleted, and no one knew why or who had done it. Thus the software stopped working, as the software's code assumed that this entry would exist in this table.

With a version control system, this sort of thing is much less likely to happen. And if it does happen you can find out why and who did it. So I prefer to put configuration which the user or admin shouldn't be able to change on a whim in files under version control.

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# January 10, 2009 6:02 AM

Rob said:

Any chance the IP has changed since this original post? These changes no longer seem to help.

# January 11, 2009 12:22 PM

Mathias said:

Hi,

I still recieve only with 20-30K. Perhaps Ron's idea is correct?

# January 11, 2009 12:34 PM

Chris said:

Yes me too.  I think they have changed the ip.  Cause I'm getting about 35KB and I have a DS3 here at my tips(in a datacenter)

# January 12, 2009 9:13 PM

Frank said:

Thanks for the code. I have been trying to use commondialog1 to set the default printer. I am using a USB port for text printing and a LPT1 for use with a Zebra printer for printing barcodes. I had much frustration until I came upon your suggested code. Sincere thanks again and Creator bless you for helping others..

Frank

# January 13, 2009 6:43 PM

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# January 22, 2009 2:57 PM

Sebastian said:

Hi

Very interesting post & debate.

I agree to some of the rules and disagree about others. But in the end this is normal, there are lots of constraints and variables playing.

I'm not developing on .NET at this moment but i did, and i think it is interesting to make the db naming convention technology-independent, so i think it is important to not mix db naming with coding preferences.

Some points:

I used to pluralize table names according to what has been said here: Tables are the relational synonymous of oop's collections. But after facing the above mentioned problems i am making some concessions.

I disagree about the PascalCase notation, i like it and i use it in my code but i think it is not necessary to use it on the db. If you use an ORM framework, it eliminate the problem by creating a translation layer. You can still have a UserRole class but your table can be named actually user_role. I think it is highly recomended to use them whenever it is possible.

I had problems with UpperCases on some servers and now i think it is better to despense with them.

Of course, if you are going to have heavy Stored Procedures you will have a lot of code in your db but i think an ORMs and a good data access layer helps a lot.

Also i used to build up my junction tables names by joining the related tables names, but sometimes this aproach has the disadvantage of the neverending table names, so i am not sure about this but sometimes i try to find i meaningful name for the relation, for example: if i have a pair of car & car_identifier tables i prefer to name the junction table car_identification rather than car_car_identifier. Also i think it is always needed two have different symbols to distinguish between tables names and table name individual words (using PascalCase naming or not).

In the example above, using PascalCase naming you would name it: CarCarIdentifier, what i think it is not clear. If you use lower case & underscores the result would be: car_car_identifier wich isn't clear either. So i use a double underscore to separate table names from individual words: car__car_identifier. I know, this may look awful :), but i think in a priority order it is first the compatibility with external conditions, and i did not like when i had to change all my PascalCase named table & fields to lowercase because of some technical constraints.

So now, and for me: database & code are different things and i don't look for beauty in the db. I give priority to compatibility and order. It is only my point of view.

I find very useful this post and encourage everybody to build a stronger convention.

Great job.

Sebastian.

PS: Sorry for my poor english.

# February 27, 2009 9:27 AM

... said:

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# March 3, 2009 10:31 PM

... said:

Interessante Informationen.

# March 5, 2009 7:43 AM

... said:

Gute Arbeit hier! Gute Inhalte.

# March 6, 2009 3:55 PM

... said:

Gute Arbeit hier! Gute Inhalte.

# March 6, 2009 3:55 PM

Hugh said:

Thanks, that's perfect.

I have a VB6 applicattion, but which uses Word to print and the clients want to be able to select a printer each time.

This code lets them select a printer for a specific job, and then restores the previous default printer afterwards.

Dim wsh as new WshNetwork

strDefault = Printer.DeviceName ' get the default

CmnDlg.ShowPrinter ' user selects new printer

' Word print code goes here

wsh.SetDefaultPrinter (strDefault) ' restore default

It muddles technologies, but it works!

# March 7, 2009 1:46 AM

<a href="www.topgooglerankingsinfo.com">lito</a> said:

i have a application that requires a num of printers.

this code is great thanks.

# March 8, 2009 8:32 PM

... said:

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# March 9, 2009 7:57 PM

... said:

Gute Arbeit hier! Gute Inhalte.

# March 11, 2009 9:41 PM

... said:

Gute Arbeit hier! Gute Inhalte.

# March 12, 2009 8:55 AM

James Hargreaves said:

Interesting stuff!

I am not currently following a convention per se, but I intend to do so in the future.

I have always favoured pluralised table names, but I may switch to singular names in the future, as they seem like the way forward to me. For instance, my take on the project/activity example above would be:

CREATE TABLE project (

 id INT NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT PRIMARY KEY,

 name VARCHAR(100),

);

CREATE TABLE activity (

 id INT NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT PRIMARY KEY,

 name VARCHAR(100),

 project_id INT NOT NULL,

);

So activity.project_id is a foreign key to project.id and your join would look something like:

  SELECT project.name, activity.name

    FROM project

LEFT JOIN activity

      ON project.id = project_id

   WHERE project.name = "world domination";

Which I think looks quite neat, with the possible exception of the RHS of the ON clause, which should probably be activity.project_id :)

# April 1, 2009 11:55 AM

Arnie said:

# April 3, 2009 4:45 AM

VM said:

Stating that "tables are logical collections of one or more entities as records" contradicts the foremost rule of the conceptual and logical design (is the author aware of those??):

- a table represents an entity.

IT HAS BEEN A STANDARD FOR ALMOST ALL RDBMS FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS, INCLUDING ORACLE AND SQL SERVER THAT A TABLE NAME MUST BE IN SiNGULAR.

Update your knowledge.

# April 8, 2009 2:34 PM

nick_cacnov said:

# April 9, 2009 11:37 PM

nick_dellal said:

# April 10, 2009 11:43 AM

IT in KC said:

I think the thread is right. I did an nslookup for global.ds.microsoft.com and I got 207.46.51.39 as the IP.

# April 11, 2009 11:22 PM

Bill said:

# April 15, 2009 11:44 AM

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# April 15, 2009 12:18 PM

Douglas Swehla said:

@VM

Examples given in the Oracle resource linked below use plural table names. The copyright is 1996, 2005.

download.oracle.com/.../sql_elements008.htm

# April 23, 2009 7:44 PM

RIchard said:

I was looking at XHEO, but I was put off by a clause in their EULA that basically said that I would have to defend XHEO against any IP claim regarding their component at my own expense.

I ended up looking at a number of other products out there.  Programming in .net, I have found that there are few managed options out there.  As such I have found myself looked at unmanaged components.  Most of these come in the form of licensing systems that use shell protection systems.  

Obviously shell protection systems are not the most secure method against hackers, as if they crack the shell they have fall access to your entire project.

Two systems of note are the QLM (Quick License Manager, www.interactive-studios.net) developed by Interactive Studios and also License Protector developed by Mirage (www.mirage-systems.de).  Both of these products are dll based COM components that can be called at any time from within your code. Both companies also provide license hosting servers services or components to setup your own server when your ready...plus much more.

Of coarse I could spend months implementing a licensing system, but it makes better sense to spend my time working on more profitable parts of my business.

I hope this is helpful to someone.

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# April 25, 2009 1:58 PM

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# May 11, 2009 7:05 AM

eric said:

sorry it dint wotk for me. Please assit:

M setting vb to print a datareport to a printer but it keeps printing to the default.

Dim p as VB.Printer

For Each p In VB.Printers

If p.DeviceName = "LX-300+" Then

Set Printer = p

DataReport1.PrintReport 'THIS DOESNT WORK, WHY?

End If

Next

This method works fine when printing a form but not the report. Why?

Dim p as VB.Printer

For Each p In VB.Printers

If p.DeviceName = "LX-300+" Then

Set Printer = p

Form1.PrintForm 'THIS WORKS

End If

Next

Please assist.

eric.

# May 15, 2009 12:34 PM

eric said:

hi guys,

here comes the best solution for changing default printer for reports:

'simply add Windows Script Host Object Model from Projects>>Refrences or simply scroll for "wshom.dll" then click OK.

After that paste this code;

Dim w As New WshNetwork

w.SetDefaultPrinter ("PrinterName")

Set w = Nothing

'the do your printing e.g

DataReport1.PrintReport

NB: It works perfect and very fast. Had spend 2 nights desperately looking for a better solution cuz i believed the long API code way provided by Microsoft in the references wasn't the best (it was slowing down my hotel system especially if the pc was slow). So i got this after some research. And it was the best code have ever hustled for so hard. Hope it helps you. Cheers!

Eric, Nairobi Kenya.

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# May 29, 2009 6:56 AM

Jerome said:

Nooooooooooooo. Database design 101 - table names absolutely should not ever, never be plural. It's a cheap and nasty practice and makes you look like a chump who doesn't take database design seriously.

If you end up with a Customers table that only has one record in it, do you rename it to Customer then? So you have a Baskets table and a Products table... is the detail table called BasketsProducts? Arrrggg, horrid! :)

# June 3, 2009 7:11 PM

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# July 18, 2009 1:55 AM

Weifen Luo said:

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# July 20, 2009 5:47 AM

sam said:

I'm going to be making a sharepoint site soon for my work, similar to a community site. Can you advise of any way to make it really graphically striking and easy to use?

# July 20, 2009 2:15 PM

Michal said:

Preparing package & Deployment for other computers, with the wshom.ocx, W2K , the older ocx can not replaced because it is renewing by windows .

The wshom.ocx from 7/2006 does not make the work (of changing default printer) but the new wshom from 8/2004 can not replace the older one.

Please help!

# August 3, 2009 8:28 AM

mike johnson said:

Is this still active? I can't seem to get above 350k/s from Toronto? for CD's this is fine, but with most things being some sort of DVD image of 2GB 2.5hrs+ is not cool. Before anyone says its my connection, I pulled down the entire season of Fringe in HD (over 30GB) at a sustained 2200k/s from iTunes which also uses akamai for delivery...

# September 4, 2009 2:48 PM

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# September 7, 2009 4:15 AM

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# September 10, 2009 4:46 AM

Jane said:

# September 13, 2009 8:43 AM

Joshua Murimi, Nairobi - Kenya said:

The Windows Script Host Object Model works perfect when the Userlogged is an Administrator, however I got problems when the user account in XP is a limited Account, any help?

# September 21, 2009 3:40 AM

Maik Wornitz said:

IntelliLock (www.eziriz.com/intellilock.htm) is an easy to use 100% managed solution. You can secure assemblies (exe/dll) without writing a single line of code. As the licensing code is directly injected into the corresponding assemblies no external dlls are required. While offering also advanced license features (license server, tracker, customer/product/sales management) it offerys real protection at IL code level(in contrast to most of the listed tools above):

-Comprehensive Obfuscation features

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-Anti Tamper Protection

-Suppress ILDASM

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-IL Code Encryption

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# September 24, 2009 3:07 PM

Mark Cowan said:

tony:

dotNET is about as much a part of the actual email client as the operating system that you're running it on. Using your reasoning, notepad is a 1gig+ text editor :)

# September 27, 2009 2:11 PM

onel said:

how to count print page using visual basic 6.0 ..??

thankz

# October 16, 2009 4:29 AM

cng said:

I ran across your blog when trying to find database table naming conventions. Thanks for putting pieces together. Good works!

# November 4, 2009 5:41 PM

Michael said:

I too get the "file ... already open" error message, when trying to create a project (folder) within a project (folder).  Does anyone have a solution to this?

# November 4, 2009 7:09 PM

Brian said:

Using the printers collection worked for me.

I was using the Scripting object which was a nice and neat solution but when I rolled the software out to the clients - it failed with an Automation Error: Exception Occurred error.

BTW whoever writes error descriptions like "Exception Occurred" needs to be put aginst the wall.

# November 12, 2009 10:39 AM

Neo said:

# November 14, 2009 9:33 AM

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# November 14, 2009 1:53 PM

ssware said:

CryptoLicensing ( www.ssware.com/.../cryptolicensing_net.htm ) is a good, affordable and easy-to-use cryptographic licensing system which can be used to  add licensing, copy-protection and activation capabilities to your software.

# November 19, 2009 11:54 PM

Thomas said:

Seems like they changed the domain to fp-db.ds.microsoft.com. Try the website http://just-ping.com to find the different ip-addresses with is assigned to this domain.

# November 24, 2009 12:47 PM

Dave said:

I still don't understand Why when I goto a Web Site on AOL it takes forever to load.

If I pick the Same Web Site using Firefox it is lightning fast!

# December 2, 2009 1:12 AM

Daniel Crespo said:

Table names represent ENTITIES, therefore must be singular. When you talk about a table, you are not talking about the whole table as a group of rows. You should refer to it as per-row. The business logic in your application should be the one having pluras and singular.

# December 14, 2009 4:02 PM

Phil Pinkerton said:

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# January 6, 2010 8:06 AM

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# February 5, 2010 9:06 PM

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# February 11, 2010 11:18 PM

Sam said:

Everyone's praising these a lot but didn't anyone find any answers for "Exception Occured" error. I agree Brian it's a very meaningful error.

# February 14, 2010 6:29 PM

Rengenx said:

Ну зачем про такое писать то.

# February 19, 2010 7:54 AM

Chemung Run said:

There's another .Net framework for licensing called InstallKey. ( www.lomacons.com ) Looks to be a lot less complex than desaware or xheo.  And the source code is included.

# February 20, 2010 10:01 AM

Arun said:

Is it Possible to check in the files which user has left checked out and left the organization. The user Id has been disabled/Deleted. Please advice.

# February 25, 2010 7:20 AM

Abdul Jabbar Patel said:

what a great solution to set the default printer.

lot of thenks Eric. i was looking for this since last week.

i check it works fine.. thanks again Eric

from: AJPatel

hi guys,

here comes the best solution for changing default printer for reports:

'simply add Windows Script Host Object Model from Projects>>Refrences or simply scroll for "wshom.dll" then click OK.

After that paste this code;

Dim w As New WshNetwork

w.SetDefaultPrinter ("PrinterName")

Set w = Nothing

'the do your printing e.g

DataReport1.PrintReport

# March 2, 2010 5:29 AM

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# April 6, 2010 8:59 PM

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