Wash your mouth out with soap, young man.

Hah :)

I don't think any reasonable person can say that FF developers are somehow smarter, or better coders than Ms developers by default..

I think the argument is that FF was coded from the beginning with security as a very high priority, while IE at the beginning emphasized features and simplicity over security, and only in the 6.0 SP2 did security take the priority it needed.

That makes all the difference in the world. If security was top priority for IE from the start, ActiveX would never have happened.

.....just me, or are the pro-MS/IE people being really cocky on this one?
I may not be the avg-pro-FF advocate, but I figured/knew it would be a matter of time before FF-specific exploits started to pop up - espically with the growing popularity of it.

However, when all is said and done - FF is still more secure, feature-rich and more standards compliant then IE.

Yes, it will have bugs, and yes - there will be exploits, such is the nature of any application. The real question is - how fast will they get patched up?

MS has continually dragged their feet on many issues with IE, while the FF community seems to be far more responsive.

Actually you don't need to turn off JavaScript.
Tools>Options>Web Features, Uncheck "Allow web sites to install software"
I turn off that kind of junk in IE too, I'll install the software I want, thank you very much.

Firefox is not more standards compliant. It has CSS bugs just like IE does. It fails the vaunted and uselessly academic ACID test just like IE does. Firefox also contains lots of proprietary CSS extensions, just like IE does.

I don't know how anyone can say it's more secure. That's pretty well an unproveable statement, so it's useless.

Yeah, it does have more features. I'd better, seeing as how it's about 5 years newer than IE6.

What "issues" are you talking about? When the hell are the FF guys going to truly support CSS standards? It's _still_ buggy in Firefox, so I guess that means they've been dragging their feet too. It's been a few weeks since the exploit was discovered, and there's still no patch.

Nobody seems to realize that FireFox developers have nothing to do with the actual browser engine, FireFox is just a pretty wrapper around Gecko, which is Mozilla's HTML/CSS engine. As such all the complaints apply to Gecko/Mozilla developers, not FireFox developers.

My favorite bug - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=915, so much for such a basic thing as HTML 4 support and so much for "open source results in bugs being fixed quicker", that bug has been there for almost 7 years now and nobody even seems to be trying to fix it. I guess open source developers don't actually work on business applications where aligned tables are a must.

I realize that very clearly. The Firefox developers then need to apply pressure - a lot of pressure - to the Gecko developers to get those damned bugs fixed. Once that's done, they need to integrate that new version of Gecko with FireFox, which I'm sure will take another 6 months of so.

The problem with something like the Firefox project is that it isn't really about delivering a better browser. It's about slagging IE. Therefore, all they've needed to do (and have done) is create a browser that is slightly better than IE. It now has the perception of being better than IE (even though there are tons of sites out there that will list, prove and display the copious amount of rendering/CSS bugs that Firefox has), and really, I truly believe that was their goal.

Ya,ya, well !
Both of them are better than Netscape 4. :P


IE is backward compatible with how many of its own crappy old versions?
How about Firefox/Mozilla/Gecko? Do they support Layers, ILayers?


"The Firefox developers then need to apply pressure - a lot of pressure - to the Gecko developers to get those damned bugs fixed"
How about witholding their paychecks...

"the Firefox project is that it isn't really about delivering a better browser. It's about slagging IE"
I mostly agree, but somewhere, under all those brand names, there probably are good smart people who really are trying to make a better browsers, we should find out who they are and recommend they get a raise...

Tabs are not an innovation, they are something you need when you have aprox eleventy-one windows open.
IE Team: Please don't force them on me.
Mouse gestures are very interesting, but I have several buttons on my mouse, so I don't need them either.

"How about witholding their paychecks..."

If they want to spout their propaganda about just how crappy IE is, and how awesome Firefox is, then they'd better stand by their word...

Go into Bugzilla and the Mozilla forums sometime and read some of their outrageous, totally slanted, I-hate-IE-with-a-passion-because-it's-Microsoft junk that they respond with. Yeah, sounds like they actually do need some money, just to shut them up...

I really detest this type of debate - and developers 'enjoying' a bug in someone else's product is shadenfreude of the worst type. Does it suck that Firefox has a security bug? Yes! Does it suck that IE has a security bug? Yes again! Firefox is a great product (and some people like myself currently prefer it to IE), but debates about software should really not descend to the level of quasi-religious rhetoric, it doesn't help anyone!

Scott, I agree partially that it is never good to pick on anyone for a bug, afterall its just a mistake. However, the amount of IE sucks posts that are out there and FF is godlike, it was time to say something. Everybody makes mistakes even these guys.

I think the original Netscape developers were the most brilliant in terms of quality and security. Firefox is basically netscape with a redesign.

Wow. I've never heard something so wrong in my life. Someone obviously doesn't use Microsoft software enough. Almost all of their software is extremely buggy and their software is known for it for a reason. Sure all software is flawed... but it's the NUMBER of flaws in a software that make or break it. IE has too many flaws under it's belt. 'Just goes to show you that with popularity, awareness is increased and bugs are found.'?? If you were talking about FF, just know that IE still has the majority in usage in the marketshare.

I am a web developer and I've encountered many more bugs in IE than FF. I've only encountered one FF bug. Like I said, FF is more popular with developers for a reason. Mozilla DOES actually care about making a better product, hence their MANY updates. How often does IE update its flaws (other than security)?

And to ShytKicker... Netscape was based off Mozilla. They made FF if you didn't know.

I agree with iRyan, I'm a web developer myself too and I just hate the way IE works. Usually I have too make a whole new css file just cuz IE does things different.

Altough FF isn't perfect either, doesn't mean it's worse than IE.