Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

A few people didn’t like my proclaimation that Flash is dead. This is understandable. It is a bit premature to make such claims, but the Silverlight model is pretty amazing. As someone who works with Flash on an ongoing basis, I thought I'd chime in with a more in depth look at the issues.

First off, let me explain my background for those of you who may not know. Way back in the day, when Flash 4 was the latest and greatest, Macromedia decided to “open up” the Flash file format. They released documentation (which was poor at best) and an SDK (which was horrible at best). I saw the potential here. Finally, the format third party developers could unleash their creativity and usher in all kinds of amazing tools. Unfortunately, the documentation was full of errors and the SDK was so riddled with bugs that you spent more time debugging it than using it. 

Nevertheless, debug I did. I came up with quite a list of fixes to the SDK, fixes which would render it near complete and bug free. I signed up for a free hosting account and promptly placed a list of the updates you had to make to the SDK in order for it to be bug free online. Macromedia’s response: cease and decist. Rather than integrating the changes themselves or acknowledging that they solved a serious problem, they told me that it was a violation of the license agreement to be posting that kind of information…. Some definition of “open” they have there. 

Not to be dismayed, I determined that the source code license was just far to restrictive then and I would create my own SDK. As familiar with the spec as I had become, it didn’t take long for me to put something together. In a few short weeks, I had an SDK that was far more complete, far less buggy, and far easier to work with than the Macromedia SDK. It wasn’t long before hundreds, then thousands of developers were downloading the SDK and posts to Macromedia’s own open-swf forum turned from questions about the Macromedia SDK to questions about this new alternative SDK. It wasn’t too long before Macromedia completely discontinued their SDK (rumor has it that product teams internal to Macromedia even considered using the SwfSource code for their own projects).

Ever since then, I've been working with the Flash File Format. I've helped put together some award winning tools that are arguably some of the most successful SWF generation tools outside of Macromedia. This gives be a unique perspective on the differences between the two formats and how these formats enable developers to create tools that work with each of them.

Admittedly, my view point isn’t the same as  a lot of people, who are perfectly content just buying the Flash IDE and can do everything they will ever need to do from there. I create tools that work with the File Format itself, tools that export their content into the Flash Format. So, if you are a software developer like myself (which is probably a good chance if you are reading this blog), then you would almost assuredly come to the same exact conclusion as myself if you knew the details of the two formats.

Animation

The Flash format itself has no notion of animation other than transformation matrices. You can apply a matrix to an element on a per frame basis to move it around. Want to move something across the screen in 3 seconds? Calculate how many frames 3 seconds will take, then calculate the matrixes required for each frame along the way. Oh, and don’t forget that the player won’t actually maintain any frame rate unless you embed blank audio tracks, so that 3 seconds might turn out to be 2 or 6 or 5, it just depends what kind of mood the machine is in.

Silverlight supports the WPF animation model, which is not only time based instead of frame based, but lets you define the start and end conditions and it will figure out how to get there for you. No need to deal with matrixes. No need to calculate positions on various frames. It just works. 

Shapes

Flash stores its shapes using binary shape records. In order to write shape definitions, you will need to either license a 3rd party Flash file format SDK, or build your own. It isn’t too difficult, but it does require a bit of a learning curve and the ability to manipulate things at the bit level, since shape records don’t align on byte boundaries. Needless to say, it isn’t the kind of thing most people can write and have all debugged in one afternoon.

Silverlight uses XAML. XAML is text based and can be output using a simple XML object. No need to buy special libraries to write files. No need to write your own libraries. Just stream some text to a file and you’re done--easily the type of thing that can be debugged and finished in an afternoon. 

Text

Flash stores its fonts glyphs using the same exact shape definitions that are used for any other shape. The player itself does not understand TTF files, so you’ll end up digging deep into the Win32 APIs and the fairly vague definitions in the Flash file format documentation to come up with something that sort of does the trick. You’ll probably spend ages trying to deal with all the intricacies of fonts, because it turns out that typography is actually fairly complex… and you will have to deal with all those complexities yourself.

WPF/E lets you embed true type font information directly into your projects, and download that information with the downloader object. No need to do anything special. No need to handle anything yourself. It just works.

Video / Audio

Flash supports multiple video formats. The latest codec is really high quality and the bandwidth usage is nice. There is one problem though if you are creating a tool that outputs Flash content… the formats it supports aren’t really used by anyone else. The original video codec, Sorenson’s proprietary H.263 implementation is a mutant version of H.263. The compression follows the spec fairly closely, but there are a bunch of features dropped out and you can’t exactly just go find a complete spec on how to build your own encoder. The later codec from On2 puts you in an even worse position. Licensing Sorenson’s codec isn’t that expensive, but On2 will rape you with fees. They are relying on revenue from licensing the codec used by Flash to revive their $2 a share stock price. It is also a completely proprietary format (where at least the Sorenson one was loosely based on a standard). The audio formats Flash supports are all proprietary, except for ADPCM, which no one uses because of its horrible compression, and MP3, which is decent but dated, and still requires licensing fees and 3rd party conversion libraries.

Compare that to the Silverlight story. Silverlight implements industry standard VC-1 codec for video, as well as offering support for WMV and WMA. Just about everyone already has Windows Movie Maker, but if they don’t it’s not a big deal. Why? Because Microsoft makes available a free Encoder SDK for producing WMA and WMV. So, not only are you using formats that people are more likely to be able to encode themselves, but Microsoft also provides your product with SDKs if you want to do the encoding yourself. The best part about it is that Microsoft doesn’t rely on WMA/WMV licensing revenue to keep themselves alive, so not only is it easier to integrate, but it’s also cheaper.

Scripting

You can reuse C# classes from your tool inside your exported content. There is no development environment out there for creating real desktop applications which is based on ActionScript. If you go the Flash route, this means that all your classes and objects have to be written twice. You need .NET classes to handle the author time experience and Flash classes to handle the run-time. If you have server components, once again you need to switch back to .NET and throw out all the classes that the run time is using. For example, let’s say you are creating a tool that outputs rich media quizzes. With Silverlight / .NET, the same entity classes you use to deal with results in the player could be reused on the server side. With Flash, you’d have to write all that logic 2x and keep it in sync as your tool changes.

Tools

You can create Silverlight content with the same tools you use on a daily basis. Visual Studio.NET is by far the most powerful and most popular IDE. You can potentially have all the code for the server components, the authoring tool components, and the runtime/player components inside the same project. No extra skills required. No needing to hire some special Flash guru to do the graphics junk. Every developer can contribute to every part of your application.

The bottom line: about the only thing Flash has going for it from my perspective is adoption. Adoption isn't hard to achieve, especially for the people that ship the operating system 90% of the world uses. As such, it's just a matter of time till that is no longer part of the equation. Adobe has a lot of work to do in the mean time, and the clock is ticking. Open sourcing Flex is a really good start in the right direction... unfortunately, Flex was built on top of the wrong platform from the start (something I told the Flex team while Flex was still in Alpha), so this last effort, while a good one, still might not be big enough to turn the tide that is coming. Now, this isn't to say that Flash isn't a great format and doesn't enable a lot of scenarios (like I said, my job is working with Flash and I'd be doing something completely different if it wasn't for Flash). So, Flash is great. Silverlight just solves a lot of the major problems that I've run into with Flash.

Published Thursday, May 3, 2007 6:03 PM by Jesse Ezell

Comments

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 4, 2007 8:02 AM by Peter

Good article. I know that you were responding to the "Flash is dead" article, but how about you take a 180 and try to put forth Flash's strong points? Is adoption really the only thing in favor or Flash? Is there something you can do in Flash and not in Silverlight? I'm not on either side. I've been reading a lot about SL and FL lately and most of the stuff I read was FUD (from both sides, but mainly Flash). There’s a lot of misinformation out there. Since you have deep knowledge about both I was wondering if you could compare the two from the other angle. Thanks.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 4, 2007 8:31 AM by Rodrigo

Silverlight has a serious problem.. it doesn't run on Linux and in "old" Windows versions like windows 2000(my case).If Microsoft solves this problem...then it might kill flash.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 4, 2007 9:46 AM by Peter

Rodrigo,

I'm not too worried about Linux; the Mono guys said they would love the challenge. I hope Microsoft gives them the help they need. Linux may be only X% of the market, but the fact that you have a competitor that runs on that OS and your solution would not makes that X% seem like (X*10)%. This may not be rational, but who said people are?

As far as Windows 2000 I would really like to know the technical reasons behind this. I'd imagine supporting OSX would be a lot harder than Windows 2000.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 4, 2007 9:55 AM by Glenn

How can I make cool animations without Onion Skinning and other tools if something isn't frame based?  

I agree that ActionScript is a mess as a programming model.  But I don't see so far how SilverLight can challenge the full functionality of Flash without having some kind of Frame based animation available, and the IDE that goes with that.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 4, 2007 10:44 AM by Jonathan

I haven't made up my mind on this whole issue, but I think considering Flex and Apollo in a more objetive manner is essential to a discussion of these issues. Java isn't going anywhere, and I think it'll work perfectly as a framework for Flex. Apollo sticks Flex (or Flash, or Ajax) applications right on the desktop, without having to rewrite anything.

I believe a more accurate way of looking at this issue is that this is the first time, at least recently, but maybe in the history of the web, that two companies have been able to innovate back and forth on the same issue to the extent and scale that Adobe and Microsoft are doing right now with RIAs. Browser wars are a joke compared to this. Yahoo and Google occasionally trade shots on an issue, like Maps, or Mail, or whatever, but I don't think the competition is as intense, or as beneficial to developers and users as this Flash/Flex/Apollo vs Silverlight has the potential to be.

I think this is the good thing about Adobe's purchase of Macromedia. Microsoft didn't seem to be entirely concerned about the swf format until Adobe bought it and decided what kind of things they would do with it. And Macromedia didn't have the size and scale that Adobe has in order to get the attention of Microsoft, or Google, or anyone else, and create this kind of competition.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 4, 2007 11:05 AM by Jesse Ezell

Functionality wise, there isn't much that Flash can do that Silverlight can't. I don't think Silverlight has support for alpha channels on video or low level, socket based communication at this time. Those eliminate a few specific usage scenarios (I know some people interested in gaming are really pushing for socket communication). The big difference IMO is that Silverlight targets application developers from the ground up, where Flash has a legacy of supporting animation. Flash is very much frame and movie clip oriented, which can be a pain when you are trying to do anything other than create a little animation sequence. Defining an application as a series of movie clips and frames is just lame.

Flex and Apollo are interesting. Apollo is a whole different ballgame though... it's like Central 2.0, and Central 1.0 was a complete failure, so I'm not expecting much from 2.0. It also doesn't deal with the creation of content, which is the side of the equation I am interested.

Flex, on the other hand, looks a lot more like Silverlight and does allow you to create SWFs. It is very much about application development. However, it still inherits all the limitations of the Flash file format. Although it has an improved animation model and can generate SWFs, you sill have the video / audio codec issues, the fact that you can only use actionscript, and the fact that you can't use your existing skills or tools. It also requires a  Java application server. So if you wanted to create an app that uses it to generate SWF, it's not a lightweight component you can bundle with your application. If an open source .NET port came out as a result of their recent announcements, it would be a lot more compelling, but that remains to be seen.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 4, 2007 4:40 PM by Quentin

I'd still say you're jumping the gun.  Also, I'd say you're making the wrong comparison, in terms of Application Development, Flex is the Adobe product to compare, not Flash.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 4, 2007 5:01 PM by Jesse Ezell

Quentin, obviously Flash isn't going away any time soon (as much as I'd like it to). I'm just pointing out why, if I had it my way, Silverlight would win in the end. I could be completely wrong, but there I think there are really good reasons to chose Silverlight over Flash (especially for the YouTube's of tomorrow who need things like lower cost video solutions).

See my comments above about Flex:

"Flex, on the other hand, looks a lot more like Silverlight and does allow you to create SWFs. It is very much about application development. However, it still inherits all the limitations of the Flash file format. Although it has an improved animation model and can generate SWFs, you sill have the video / audio codec issues, the fact that you can only use actionscript, and the fact that you can't use your existing skills or tools. It also requires a  Java application server. So if you wanted to create an app that uses it to generate SWF, it's not a lightweight component you can bundle with your application. If an open source .NET port came out as a result of their recent announcements, it would be a lot more compelling, but that remains to be seen."

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, May 5, 2007 11:12 AM by Vikram

What ever happens I am really interested in knowing if silverlight will take the center stage in a year time. But if the microsoft guys do not support windows 2000 atleast, It cant really take the market.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, May 6, 2007 4:00 AM by Daniel Greitens

I think doing compairison is not the right way in this matter. There may be things that Apollo can do better an other things that Silverlight or WPF can do better. The problem is, that by dealing with phrases like "Flash is dead", you're doing nothing than supporting the people out there who think Microsoft wants nothing than to dominate the whole world.

I think the better way is to choose one of the tools and be happy that there will be a choice in future.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, May 7, 2007 2:48 AM by qwerty

Flash is an graphics/animation tool that developed a programming model. Not the best approach, and it's apparent if you've ever programmed a substantial Flash application. Flex (which I do professionally) is certainly an improvement, but the language and tools are still lacking.

As a .NET developer for 6 years prior to Flex, I'm acutely aware of the gap in languages and tools between Flex and .NET. Silverlight is approaching the problem of RIA development from the ground up. They have stronger, more powerful tools and languages with which millions of developers are familiar with - a solid foundation. This is a better long-term strategy and one that will make significant gains.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, May 7, 2007 4:04 AM by Tim

I know that Silverlight can do animation.  I have seen a few examples of the programmatic animation.  But I haven't found any example of the more "traditional animation" such as those done in the ecards of www.jacquielawson.com or www.ojolie.com.  So my question is, can Silverlight do that kind of animation?  If so, is there any example out there?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, May 7, 2007 1:07 PM by milan

Hi, thanks for your comparison. It's a true developer story. When you see timeline, you don't see nothing, right?  Well, I can tell you that for designers it's like: when they see code, they see nothing. They LOVE timeline and when they see timeline, they see interactions, dinamics, and everything else what you see when you look at code. That is the main reason, why designers love flash, and other designer tools (photoshop, etc) and they also prefer macs. I think that in future rich applications design the most important fact will be environment, which will allow developers and designers to collaborate. Even if SL has it's advantages over flash it is far away from replacing (or killing) it. Just my 2 cents :)

Milan

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, May 7, 2007 2:18 PM by Matt

Hi, just to correct one thing, building a Flex 2 application does not require using a Java application server.  You can build a Flex application with the free Flex SDK or you can choose to build with the Eclipse-based Flex Builder IDE.  There are plenty of .NET developers trying and liking Flex.  We know there are plenty of improvements we can make in the tooling, but fundamentally the move can be made without much difficulty.

Matt

Flex PM

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, May 7, 2007 6:12 PM by Jesse Ezell

But you do need a Java app server to compile the flex in the first place right? So, you'd still have to take the java dependency if you were creating an application that output SWF via Flex, which is the main problem with that approach (outside of the general file format limitations).

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, May 8, 2007 5:34 PM by milan

well, wrong again, but never mind :)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 11, 2007 11:42 AM by Quentin

I think the one thing that a lot of people are missing in the equation is that developers can't design, no more than designers can develop, right now, Adobe has the best environment to allow them to work together best.  Microsoft has more than just silverlight to develop in order to create that environment.  I know they have Blend, but it's not, in my opinion, as good as Flash/Flex for the designer side of things.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, May 12, 2007 5:59 PM by Fabio Serra

You don't need any java application server for Flex/SWF applications. Compile in your own machine, maybe with eclipse, and deploy the swf wherever you want.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:26 PM by Chris Cavanagh

Yep, Flex 2 doesn't have any dependencies on a Java app server.  Just use Flex Builder or the free SDK and you're good :)  Issues with fonts still bug me though:

 @font-face

 {

   src:url( "Assets/TradeGothicLTStd-Light.ttf" );

   fontFamily: TradeGothicLTStd-Light;

 }

All that to embed a font is just nasty ;)  Likewise embedding an image is a bit creepy (I generally like attibute-based approaches, but not this one):

 [Embed(source="Assets/MyLogo.svg")]

 [Bindable]

 public var Logo:Class;

The data binding is VERY sweet though, easier and sometimes nicer than WPF...  It'll be interesting to see which route Silverlight 1.1 takes with databinding.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, June 1, 2007 6:17 AM by Staffan

There seems to be some sort of misconception amongst certain persons here. I just want to make clear that Silverlight does not mean "not using timeline". For all you graphics artists out there: The Blend tool from Microsoft has Timeline animation possibilities.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, June 1, 2007 12:55 PM by Jesse Ezell

Good point. The difference is that with Silverlight, the timeline is actually a timeline. With Flash, it is really a frameline.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, June 7, 2007 3:28 AM by jtadros

How about we all discuss if an alpha/beta product beats 10 years of engineering, and market penetration?  I'm glad everyone has ideas of where silverlight needs to catch up.  Frankly it just makes Microsoft’s job easier.   The question I have is if Microsoft adds every little thing that you think Flash can do better (which they are already doing. .i.e. sockets etc. ) then who will win?   It’s not about the format if the devs listen...it’s really about adoption both by devs and users, ease of use, and market dominance.   Ever hear of Netscape, word perfect, and Apple.  No matter how cool and powerful they became in the end they were no more than a bump in the timescales.  Microsoft does one thing better than the rest..and that’s re-engineer a product and integrate it so well you in the end you really don't care to buy or use anything else.  Microsoft is listening....so keep up the great feature requests...I'm sure in 2 years of Flash's 10 years we'll all miss the good ole WordPerfect..er Adobe days. ;)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, June 8, 2007 3:41 PM by DImi

Given Microsoft's track record, even if the technology is better than flash/flex I dont think I would ever switch, microsoft never created anything for the good of us, untill they had too, and even then they sucked at it. Example: Mac started gaining ground with OSX and Microsoft comes out with Vista, we all saw how great that is! So for microsoft coming out and presenting this HOLY new technology that they have called silverlight! when flash has been around for 10 years is just ridiculous, people will see through the marketing propaganda. Just my opinion.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, June 8, 2007 6:26 PM by Jesse Ezell

Dimi, Vista kicks ass FYI.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:33 PM by Keith Elder

I saw several people commenting about if Silverlight didn't support Windows 2000 it would never make it.  My response is, "Are you kidding me?".

That operating system is 7 years old and isn't used that much at all.  I don't know what the percentage is, but it has to be extremely small.  To say it is going to kill Silverlight adoption is pretty funny.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, June 13, 2007 5:45 PM by jrush

Interesting to hear folks thoughts on this. I've been using flash since beta 0.9 & have always loved it, but since most of my sites leverage .net I've really been looking over SL. Unlike most of you I design & program and my reservations about SL mainly revolve around implementing a given design. Considering that PS & Illustrator are my bread & butter for design work, MS Expression appears too limited to me for applying designs to pages & user controls. I use alpha channels all the time in my designs & sure don't want to give that up. Also I'm puzzled by the perception that timelines should factor in time as opposed to being solely FPS & Layers. By leveraging time it would seem that either frames get dropped, added, or an adjusted in some way. I just don't see how that approach has smooth transitions. I would really like SL to be a hit, but in many ways it seems to have some serious flaws. Especially in terms of what can be done graphically. I admit that actionscripting is a pain, but I've always been able to get it to do what I want. The real problem with flash is that most designers can't write actionscripting & most programmers don't really get how flash movies should be structured. I'm glad to SL on the market & in the future I'd probably use both SL & flash. However to say flash is dead b/c of SL is just absurd. I think both will have a place in the future, but in my opinion SL will always be a bit limiting graphically compared with flash. I say that simply for the fact of how well Photoshop & Illustrator work with flash. Any vector work I do in Illustrator will export as a .swf file & colors, gradients, & layers are maintained. SL looks very promising, but I'll wait to make a more serious evaluation when it's out of beta.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, June 15, 2007 2:00 AM by jcktej

"It also requires a  Java application server. So if you wanted to create an app that uses it to generate SWF, it's not a lightweight component you can bundle with your application. If an open source .NET port came out as a result of their recent announcements, it would be a lot more compelling, but that remains to be seen."

Flex DOESN'T requires a Java App server, you can do server side things in .NET, ColdFusion, Java or PHP.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, June 18, 2007 4:30 AM by Xadoa Toloit

Who says that MS has never done anything good? Who can touch the .NET Framework? - Java can't. Who can touch MS Office? - Everybody else is busy copying. Vista? - Surely Better than OSX - which runs on limited hardware set! And VS.NET – nothing to compare against.

Silverlight will win because it has all developers behind it. VB.NET, C#, J# and even C++ I would guess. Web applications are not about design in the end. They are about functionality. Programmers are the minds behind the designs. What good is a design if it cannot be implemented to deliver a business solution?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, June 18, 2007 6:34 AM by Adam

I definitley agree with Xadoa.

I am a .NET developer and have always wanted to acheive things in Flash that couldn't be done in .NET but didnt want to learn Flash.

With Silverlight, i can use all the same programming knowledge for the backend code and just learn a new front end.

I dont know anything much about the technical details of flash but I will personally be jumping aboard the Silverlight bandwagon just because I'm a .NET developer and I know many others will as well.

Something to keep in mind as well is that Silverlight is still in beta and alpha stages (dependant on what version you are working with.)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, June 23, 2007 4:23 PM by Lee

thanks for the great comparison, even with all that's great about flash, the programming side definitely sends shutters down my spine.

I got a question though, how would apollo and javafx compare? (dunno anything about central) What would a web app gain from being outside of the browser, any potential development issues/ security issues?

Also, how does the performance of silverlight vs flash compare? which will have the smaller app size for a similar functionality?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, June 24, 2007 12:04 AM by Craig

Ultimately, SL vs. Flash/Flex is really a .NET vs. 'something else' discussion.  If you are a .NET developer, you will obviously tend to do work in Silverlight.  Of course a .NET developer will not feel comfortable doing ActionScript compared to a Java developer, as many describe it as being a mix between Java and JavaScript.  IMHO, Flash will not be killed by Silverlight because in order to do that, you really have to move all the developers to .NET.  The obvious reality is that there are many developers and organizations that are rooted in languages/frameworks other than .NET (i.e. J2EE) and developers' comfort with either Flex or SL will reflect that.

<br><br>

Based on what I hear and read, I am sure SL will be excellent for .NET and RIA in general (although my organization will be sticking with Flex ;-).  I believe that weaknesses in each one will be addressed and the competition will force quick product growth and innovation in both.  Adobe will improve Flash video issues, .NET will improve its design tools - you get the picture.  The way I see it: .NET has grown tremendously and Java has grown steadily and is still strong in the enterprise.  There are still heated discussions about .NET vs. Java/J2EE as there always have been.  Similarly, I foresee SL growing tremendously in the .NET community and Flash/Flex growing as well and remaining very strong.  It's real easy to see only one side of the story when you only live on the one side of the fence - I say that for both sides.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, June 25, 2007 10:17 AM by Chris

Our company develops for Web and CD at the

same time with Flash. One swf can run

through Director off the CD with very little change.

Most of the time no change is needed.

Mac and PC mostly. We've yet

to ever have a client even request Linux.

Can Silverlight run the same body of code

on Web and CD? Without exposed source code?

Flash dead? Yea, right. Have fun with script

kiddies stealing your XAML code.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, June 25, 2007 10:26 AM by Chris

Also...

<< Web applications are not about design in the end. << They are about functionality.

And that's why most clients want to see things like

intro animations and graphics above all first.

You know, the "important" stuff.

All the while only giving you temporary materials

to work with while promising finals up to the end.

Clients aren't developers and they don't think

like you do.

Most of the time you're paid to do what THEY want.

Not what YOU want.

Design is VERY important. It is usually what

gets you the job in the first place.

Like I said clients aren't developers.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:51 AM by tom

How come no one has realized yet that Silverlight doesn't support the most basic components such as text box.

I know the development workflow in Sliverlight is smother compared to Flash/ Flex but come on. I truly believe that anyone who has actually done some work with Sliverlight, Expression Studio and Visual Studio realizes that this technology is at least another 18 months away from really being a possible competitor to Flash... and I don't think Adobe will be sitting on their hands.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, June 26, 2007 9:29 PM by Burak KALAYCI

Hi Jesse,

I don't agree that Flash is dead, on the contrary I believe Silverlight is to be born dead. Anyway, the reason I'm commenting: Macromedia decided to open up the SWF format in May 1998, when Flash 3 public beta was released, there was no SDK, just the specs. I remember that clearly because that was the time I started working with SWF format.

Best,

Burak

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:59 PM by John

My biggest issues with WPF and SL is the designer tools. I work in a MS shop and I'm trying to embrace WPF, but Microsofts design tools just blow.   I've tried Expression Designer and Expression Blend. MS needs to take additional cues from Adobe and get the design stuff down before they expect me to give up Illustrator,Fireworks,Flash and Flex.  

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, June 30, 2007 3:12 AM by ToolmakerSteve

Chris Said:

> Can Silverlight run the same body of code on Web and CD? Without exposed source code? ... Have fun with script kiddies stealing your XAML code.

No, this is NOT a problem with Silverlight.

Typically, the XAML for an application gets compiled into an assembly dll, along with all the C# code. No source remains. As for running on a CD, I am going to do that test soon. Might end up compiling two different dlls, one for the CD, one for the web server, but 99% of the XAML and the C# and the media resources (bitmaps, audio, video) will be the same between the two.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, June 30, 2007 3:29 AM by ToolmakerSteve

> Tom said:

>> ... Silverlight, Expression Studio and Visual Studio realizes that this technology is at least another 18 months away from really being a possible competitor to Flash... and I don't think Adobe will be sitting on their hands. <<

Could be. But in the long run, Microsoft's underlying technical approach is fundamentally superior. Its not just Silverlight. Its the entire .NET approach to blending media with logic. IMHO, this is like comparing gunpowder to bow and arrow, when gunpowder was first invented and tended to blow up in your face. Yeah, the archers could still win, but not for long. For Adobe to be competitive in the long run, they would have to invent something like .NET -- not going to happen.

Yes, Microsoft's design tools are far, far behind -- and Adobe keeps moving. But given all the technology Microsoft is making available, other companies will be able to rapidly make all kinds of specialized tools, customized to particular usage scenarios, industries, or work processes. Perhaps what we'll see is Adobe hold the deeply trained graphic professionals, while everyone else ends up using .. a wide variety of interesting new tools.  Check my website early 2008, and you'll see one example (no relation to the product I've got currently). I'm sure there will be hundreds of other interesting applications from other vendors, applications that would have been too expensive to develop in any previous era.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, June 30, 2007 4:06 AM by ToolmakerSteve

Another thought on Adobe vs. Microsoft:

I know the graphic artist I am working with will continue to use Illustrator and Photoshop. And the videographer likewise is unlikely to use any Ms software for editing video. And some of the animations and effects we use will likely come from Flash [the tool]. So any Ms-centric web development solution will need to slurp in all those media formats.

Silverlight, because it fits seamlessly into .NET development, and includes extensible languages (XAML, C# or other .NET language), is a great platform for creating customized media services. Flash [the file format] isn't designed for such a role.

Maybe in the long run, Flash [the tool] would output Silverlight as a file format. That to me would be the best of both worlds. Adobe and Microsoft could then each make money doing what they do best, and all of us would have an overall solution that was superior to either side alone.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, June 30, 2007 5:29 AM by Miroslav

I see here a lot of technical comparison between Silverlight and Flash/Flex, but this is wrong way of thinking. Silverlight will end as a tool that some .Net developers use to make their products more visual attractive. Flash doesn’t need to win the battle, because there won’t be any. Flash is a tool for expressing visual creativity and that only matter.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, July 7, 2007 3:58 PM by yohami

I can understand why Silverlight would appeal to .net engineers since they have less to learn to produce "flash like" applications, but as a flash game developer Im only interested in the results.

What can be done in Silverlight? what are the advantages, what are the weakpoints, etc. How is Silverlight stronger than flash, I dont care about video formats or SDK problems or learning platforms, thats just not the point.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, July 8, 2007 3:05 PM by ChrisL

Here are a few:

1. A complete integration of all MS development tools like VS.NET utilizing all of the their backend media and communication technologies for advanced enterprise level applications that many will be using regardless if anyone like it our not.

2. Utilizing the newest VS.NET will Seemless integrate with MS SQL which will give us powerful desktop applications over the web.

3. Even faster RAD deliverables and now with stunning UI designs.

4. Vector based enterprise scale application which flash was unable to achieve will now be fully accepted by larger companies which will drive the next wave in  many aspects of internet communications.

5. DirectX for with full 3D hardware support.

6. Programmers may probably build converters and importers to support SWF animations for Silverlight. So die hard flash animators may be used for cool vector effects with in a silverlight applications. Not sure how much will cross over though.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, July 8, 2007 3:09 PM by ChrisL

IT and Marketing are no longer in 2 different camps.  They are currently engaged and will be getting married shortly.  It would be like if Mr. Nerd marries Beautiful Chick and has a family of very intelligent, trendy, well stressed kids.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:56 AM by NKast

Flash is dead...

..and I have found it's dead body!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, August 2, 2007 9:35 AM by Shailesh Mewada

If Silverlight is booming in its alpha versions then think what Microsoft can do in the next few releases.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:10 AM by Venkat

The biggest problem I see with Silverlight is: You cannot have “x:code” chunks embed in the XAML file anywhere you want. One can only include in the Top parent Canvas. This fundamentally alters the web and the why many people write web applications. For example, you cannot embed mash-ups, if they contain JavaScript code.

Other limitations are, you cannot dynamically generate JavaScript code or include data for the components inside the Top-canvas..

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, August 17, 2007 3:21 PM by zack

along with all the good points made here (as well as skinner's) - there are a few more...

While adobe is no better than MS in the corporate world, the flash/flex community ( most notably OpenSourceFlash.org ) is by far stronger and more well established than anything that SL could ever hope to create.

It's funny to hear .NET guys talk about 'standards' and 'open' formats... hmm, and you work with the most closed and non-standard of them all!

Now, you're right, the FLV format is no WMV (thank god) but have you seen any web video lately? All Flash. That'll be a hard one to convert. Like the million of XP users.

But that's all nonsense. Here's the real-

go look at ToolmakerSteve's website

That's why MS, .NET and SL will never kill ANYTHING

(no disrespect Steve, but damn... )

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:33 AM by SpeedDesaster

It tooks me 1h to read all the funny stuff you post here( And the links )

Here two fractions:

------------------

- Designers

There are two things i heard from the designer guys here. First "Design is much more important than functonallity", second 'Microsoft Expression ***' suxx".

First, if nobody would care about functionallity why the People go on a Website with such functionallity when they can go to museum or in a cinema( ok it's a long way but... ).

Second, if you don't want to create your graphics in Microsoft Expression '***', import the graphics from Photoshop or Illustrator( I heard you can do this ).

------------------

- Programmers

ActionScript vs. .Net, Features from hell,... :)

ActionScript 3( only 3 ) is a nice Language but the 48 and more .Net languages are nice too( specially C# ).

More Language/Framework Features -> .Net

Better drawing routines -> Flash

After this funny text...

I studied game development, so i have learned to respect both, the designer and the programmer side( I'm Programmer ).

In my job i develop at this time with ActionScript 2/3, and sometimes C#( It's not a game job, but this is changing ), and i think C# is a nice language, much nicer than ActionScript 3( And ActionScript 3 is nice too ). I also work with Photoshop, Illustrator,....

Fact is, Microsoft has much more Money, they have a own OS to spread Silverlight with one update( So over 80% of the Internet users will have it ), and at least, they have much more developers to make a silverlight a sucessfull product, that will not remove Flash from the web( Java exists and havn't got killed by .Net ), but Adobe has much to do if they want Flash alive in 5 Years.

( I hope my English doesn't suxx to much )

SpeedDesaster

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, August 24, 2007 4:43 AM by Niel Drummond

I agree Flash is probably dead, unless they open up their file format.

Silverlight may seem great, but unless the player is ported to OS X and linux, it will go the way of ActiveX. History teaches more than poetry.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, August 24, 2007 11:46 AM by SpeedDesaster

-------------------------------------------

I agree Flash is probably dead, unless they open up their file format.

Silverlight may seem great, but unless the player is ported to OS X and linux, it will go the way of ActiveX. History teaches more than poetry.

-------------------------------------------

Maybe you should read something about MacOSX before you write something about it.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:14 PM by McFurry

Microsofts WRD magnification senario spills magazine bits against all Adobe efforts.  See the case where Carvel software guru Michael Mcfurry ate spanish rice and felt sick in the morning.  Macromedia made a smart busness move leveraging rich experiences to experienced rich people who own levers.  Needless to say I smell trouble for my post.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:17 PM by Frank

You would be crazy to trust Microsoft for anything that involves an open platform like the web.

Flash is great tool for making web applications.  Microsoft has a long history of making products that lock in a market subset and forcing others out.

I just can't see anyone in their right mind who wants to make a web app using Silverlight.  How could you trust Microsoft given their history... it would be painting a big "I'm stupid" sign on your forhead.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, August 30, 2007 9:44 PM by McGruff

Both have pros and cons. Here are my thoughts

Flash / Flex / AIF - pros /cons

- swf / actionscript is fairly hard to decompile in a useful way.

- AS 3.0 is now a strongly typed language, though nothing compared to C#.

- The Adobe Integrated Format (AIF) applications run as desktop applications on both Windows and Mac, with either SWF content, or plain old html / javascript. Perhaps we can run silverlight apps inside the AIF player (anyone have any thoughts here?)

- The latest Flash runtime (I think it's called the Flash Virtual Machine) is 10x faster than the previous flash player (because of strong typing I believe), and is thus quite capable.

- Flash video compression is quite impressive.

- Many designers / developers already know flash (though most complain about it).

- Flash code is often spread throughout many frames, and is not very organized, and is quite difficult to debug.

Silverlight Pros / Cons

-- We can now use C# for silverlight (as a xaml code behind file). C# on server, C# on client.

-- Silverlight will eventually integrate seamlessly into the ASP.NET event model, as well as the ASP.NET AJAX framework.

-- Source code is not protected (AFAIK) -- though this is only a partial issue because many SV "applications" will have client - server interactions and the server code is not accessible.

-- Silverlight is still very new and needs time to grow up. It's just simply not there yet, but it's growing quickly.

-- Frameworks will be developed to make developing RIA applications quite easy. I could see the Acropolis framework ported to Silverlight.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, September 5, 2007 11:27 AM by yloquen

Interesting thoughts.

Flash is not dead for certain. It has a lot of momentum, so it will take at least a few years even if Silverlight is strictly better in everything. And Adobe will not exactly wait for that to happen.

Nobody brought up price. With Flash , if you abandon the IDE, you get everything for free ... Is that so with SL?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, September 5, 2007 10:42 PM by bowlman

yloquen... i expect that SL code can be compiled with the .NET compiler that you get when you install .NET Framework or Mono/Moonlight.  There are actually heaps of free .NET tools out there and we will see some for SL/Moonlight as well.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, September 7, 2007 5:40 PM by Ronald Avendaño

Just a question... Microsoft paid u for said that crazy things?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, September 10, 2007 11:00 AM by Jeremy Daley

i haven't read all the replies to see if this has been said already, but from what i've seen, Silverlight only embeds through a javascript (no object/embed tags).

i this this would be a problem for myspacer's or bloggers who are restricted from implementing their own javascript.

i may be uninformed on this, so forgive me if i'm wrong...

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, September 10, 2007 11:16 PM by KN

There are always a couple of things that one tool can do that others can't. Flash/Flex have unprecedented animation capabilities that only artistic people can appreciate and SL is no where near it. Every site that's been defined visually cool for the past decade was most possibly done in Flash; and Flex is growing on that foundation. Likewise, SilverLight has the unprecedented support in .Net framework and it's legion of developers that Flex can't match. It is stupendous to call one technology/community dead rather than cherishing the competition. Where would IBM be if not for Microsoft, and where would Yahoo and MS be if not for Google. It is called FREEDOM of CHOICE. Every living being deserves it.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, September 17, 2007 2:39 AM by DZ

I just cant wait for MS plans to integrate Silverlight with XNA Game Studio Express, for all that rich unprecedented graphic and animation capabilities :)).

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, September 17, 2007 3:59 PM by Rob

I don't think Silverlight should be compared to Flash. Sorry, but whenever I see Flash on a web site, I look for the skip button so that I can get to the real content. While Flash can be used to great effect, its usually used for value-free marketing gloss, and frankly, I find all those 'cool animations' superficial and annoying.

Silverlight (especially from 1.1 onwards) will be used be developers to create cross platform browser based content with genuinely interactive client side functionality that doesn't rely on the 'make do' string and sticky tape of AJAX.

If Silverlight makes Web sites look nice, that's great too, but that's not why it will be successful. Silverlight will finally make it easy for developers to create browser hosted software that matches the user experience of desktop or client/server apps.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, October 4, 2007 7:16 AM by sami

can anyone please show me a silverlight application that cannot be done in flash except the 3D stuff.

Can applications like buzzword be built in silverlight?

Can we build a portal based fully on silverlight?

Al the demos I have seen done with silverlight have been on the web since some years.

I recoomend everybody to stop beleiving the hype . Instead believe what you see.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, October 12, 2007 2:38 AM by Mahesh Ramachandran

Silverlight has a big drawback over its network foorprint over Flash. Flash delivers compiled binary vs Silverlight which delivers Text based XAML. Hence the amount of content that is delivered over Flash is much smaller compared to XAML. Try delivering similar UX over the web & access it over a 512 Kbps connection from anywhere in Asia and you'll know what Iam talking about.

Do you really think Flash is dead?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:17 PM by John A

Silverlight also offers the compiled binary option.  The XAML is compiled into BAML, which is binary and smaller in size.  Actually, Microsoft recommends this.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, October 15, 2007 7:40 AM by Julius

It’s the middle of October, and Silverlight is nowhere to be seen... How could it be that Silverlight, such a killer-app is so... ...Dead?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, October 15, 2007 3:50 PM by Steve

How is BAML for streaming, as I don't think you would be able to stream in XAML.  If BAML can't handle that I would see it as a rather large problem for Silverlight and Vid

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:05 AM by JLM

People are taking up ruby because it is nice to work with, designers are not going to take up XAML because it is not nice to work with, I know I am working with it.

Blend is so far behind the flash IDE in terms of creative flow you might as well start creating your own version, and often it is easier to hand code the XAML.  No one yet has any idea how to really work well with XAML in large applications.

XML solves everything is a current mistake, panel are good but start trying to animate and jump between code and graphics, and reusing sections of XAML like movieclips instances, na you guys missed the sum of parts aspects of flash.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, October 21, 2007 9:50 AM by wow.

SLdoah -

Love your comments, but I dont think anyone hates you. 8] (jealous maybe)

You are right though, what Microsoft really needs is to tap into that rare breed of "programming designer" that would be willing to cross over to Silverlight. The easiest way is to give them incentives for bringing thier talent over.

Another way is to demonstrate huge income potential for someone with this skillset - but make no mistake, this type of head count is expensive (but very neccessary) for any employer who cares about the front-end.

I dont think that its a one way or the other propisition btw. Those who will excel at this new technoloy will continue to excel at Flash/Flex/Actionscript.

If you compensate them, they will come.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:51 PM by Hua

Hi,

I am new to silverlight and Flash. Can we create a silverlight application using dynamic data loaded from Database? I am searching for an example, I can not find one.

thanks

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:22 PM by Tdz

Wow im speachless. Iv worked with flash for a good 4-5 years now and, well actually Im impressed by what you say. I mean, for example, that you have to put a blank sound to force a regular frame rate is absurd. Why go into so much trouble when you can just use intervals... I mean, im not saying that silverligh dosen't have potential...but its faaar from what flash is doing right now and it will take time before it catches up. Too much time if you ask me, flex has become simpler, air will make everything better, and silverlight will fall into the shadows until MS shows you ppl what we have in stores..

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:46 PM by Jonas

I'm surprised one very simple point has NOT been substantially brought up. The Designer vs. Programmer issue. Design vs. Code.

I mean if you take away the fact that a non coder can do some pretty amazing stuff in Flash, well, then Flash AS is just another language. But it never was AS that brought me to it, but rather the SIMPLICITY of being able to animate and create interactivity with ease. What tools can a designer use in conjunction with SL?

Is there a WYSIWYG GUI like Photoshop/Premiere/After Effects/Flash that I can use?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, October 29, 2007 2:35 PM by Edward Apostol

Just to clarify for all those M$ - centric folks, You really should be comparing SilverLight to Flex, not Flash. Flash (the "Player") is just the plugin, and the branded name for the authoring tool used for over a decade to make rich internet app-type stuff.

Hey - it looks like everyone on this thread forgot (or were to young to know) that M$ tried to enter into this environment over a decade ago. When Flash was in its infancy, M$ bought a company called Liquid Motion, which had a product called Liquid Motion Pro... the software allowed you to create animations using a timeline based mechanism...If they treat Silverlight like they treated Liquid Motion Pro, than its as good as dead.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:16 AM by New to the RIA topic

I wonder how one could create an app that manages peripherals with Flex/Flash. Is there any kind of integration between action script and Java? I mean not via an app server but simply being able to invoke methods on local java classes. I guess it can be done in SL since it simply integrates with .net languages.

In Flex/Flash world what would be the better way to integrate the presentation layer with business logic and hardware control? Thinking about a kiosk type app?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:49 PM by NuUzer

IMHO the *true* power of flash is on the server, NOT on the client.

I'm referring to FMS (or any other open source equiv. e.g. Red5). Does SilverLight have an associated server engine? If not, it cannot even begin to compete with Flash technology on any serious level for building full-featured, audio/video database-driven, multimedia apps.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, November 1, 2007 3:30 PM by Ducky

Flash sucks - it doesn't run on Win 3.1.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, November 2, 2007 9:07 AM by NuUzer

Ducky, Win 3.1 has been extinct for a while now...

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, November 3, 2007 6:19 AM by me

"Does SilverLight have an associated server engine?"

Silverlight content is just plain xml any web scripting language will already allow server integration.

For me the biggest positive about the Silverlight plugin is the smooth hardware accellerated playback at 60fps. It puts the flash player to shame.

However I find the Flash Design tools are far easier to use than Expression Blend.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, November 4, 2007 8:36 AM by 60fps?

60fps? Why would you waste processor cycles like that for ....anything?

Do you know the human eye can only detect 32fps -ish. Anything more is just wasted frames for visualy effects.

Why on earth would you ever want anything running that fast? lol.

You need to get out of your cube more often dood. I hear the outdoors around Redmond is fabulous this time of year.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, November 11, 2007 9:58 AM by archont

A few questions then:

1. What's the execution speed of AS vs Silverlight?

2. Can I make games in silverlight that won't suck?

3. Is the silverlight rendered faster than the flash one?

4. Does it have hardware T&L?

If it's at least a triple yes then bye bye flash. Otherwise, this is some kind of joke.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, November 16, 2007 11:00 PM by Jonathan

"he totally forgets to mention the streams of tears of agony Microsoft developers shed already about Microsoft products and tools"

Hmmm.. I happen to be quite fond of some of the Microsoft products and tools.  Take Visual Studio for example.  It is by far the best IDE I have ever used.  That is one of the big reasons that I am a .Net developer today: the tools.  

The tools are what makes a software system successful.  Sony ignored that with the ps3, while MS offered fabulous development tools.  As a result there are many more Xbox360 developers.  The programming model behind WPF is really quite nice when you get into it.  The current DESIGNER tools for SL may need a lot of enhancements, but they can improve that.  The important thing is that they have the big picture view on where to take it.  

I'm not saying flash is dead or even dying.  Just that SL definitely has a fighting chance.  

BTW, MS get socket support & binary formatter WCF support in SL please.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, November 16, 2007 11:06 PM by Jonathan

@venividivici,

That hideapod link was hilarious.  Let me guess what operating system you use... hmm... OSX?  You can really tell the Apple fanboys when you read their posts.

Yes, there are many things about Vista that really suck, but I think that it IS better than XP because of the security.  The average user is so stupid.  They need a stronger security system to take care of them  Something like Ubuntu or Vista work great for that.  Haven't had a lot of OSX experience so can't speak for it.  Much better than XP though even though the transition is very painful.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:46 AM by David Waggoner

Ultimately it comes down to what the companies investing in web marketing want.  They are familiar with Flash, and so is most of the industry.  They're not interested in risking money by using new technology, even if it is Microsoft.  Industry professionals already know Flash, and it's easier to migrate to AS3 then to learn another proprietary language.   Truth be told,  the major marketing firms will continue to use Flash, and money dictates direction.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:20 AM by JOE

"Microsoft does one thing better than the rest..and that’s re-engineer a product and integrate it so well you in the end you really don't care to buy or use anything else"

I just have a distrust of MSFT...Cross browser support: They get a reasonable share of the market, then add a "feature" in their next version that doesn't quite work right on other browsers, etc....You do care about using something else. You just can't - if you want things to work correctly. They often work with a standard format, then add a their own twist.

"implements industry standard VC-1 codec for video" - Isn't this a little disingenuous?

It sounds like this battle is just moving applications into what people wanted browser apps to be in the first place before that security sandbox put the handcuffs on desktop access. A mature looking front-end, desktop integration, desired content pushed from the server rather than polled.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 3:02 PM by Thomas

I think what the designers here are forgetting is that functionality is going to be the new drive on the web.  Flashy (pardon the pun) animations that look cool but do nothing are so popular because that's all the designers can do.  Now that Silverlight has come along and offers us a sane development model, developers can begin to make useful web apps with streamlined UIs.  The Silverlight apps may not have animations firing off in all directions and blinking shapes flying all over the place, but they'll be able to accomplish tasks.

The new web is definitely going to be developer driven, not designer driven.  I think people have had enough cartoon sites, and now they'd like to get some work done.

Has anyone noticed how popular Google has been lately?  I'm sure you have.  Where's Google's slick animations and colorful, bubbly UIs that are hard to navigate?  Google's products are perfect examples of how the new web is driven by functionality, not flashiness.  Google is just one example.  There are websites all of the Internet that are springing up and becoming popular because of their simple and easy-to-navigate UIs.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:04 PM by Michael

Most developers are smart. they know who their target audience is. They know catering to their clients needs pays the bills. Clients want websites which are audience inclusive.. I've never heard a client say "I don't care about Mac or Linux users". Today Flash is an inclusive platform regardless of it's developer features. Silverlake is not. Unless Silverlake can bridge to other platforms it will never be adopted by the client... because it excludes a segment of their audience. The client doesn't care if it's developed in Flash, XHTML or some other paradigm.. as long as their audience can participate.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, November 23, 2007 4:20 PM by Thomas

Silverlight is only alpha, but it already works on Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Mac OS X.  Windows 2000 and Linux support is in the works, and will most likely be released by the time Silverlight 1.1 goes gold.

As far as browser support, Silverlight currently runs on IE6, IE7, FF 1.5+, and Safari.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, December 5, 2007 5:58 AM by alexandre damiron

I like Javascript integration, Xaml (yet I would have prefered svg), resusable code.

However, I do not want to be supposed to develop with .NET plateform, which I dislike.

I hope I will be able to get the tools & Ide to separate silverlight development from .NET development

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, December 8, 2007 5:46 AM by Santanu Bhattacharjee

I use flash for virtually everything since it is "ubiqutious". (animation, web, games, broadcast, films and even print). I am talking about serious professional stuff.

It does have several cool +ve points. But when it comes to taking it to limits we start feeling the limitations.

While most people here compare the programming aspects of flash to silverlight (Since MS is a programming oriented company), I find its limitations in animation compared to Animo / US animation .

I see it limited as a multimedia app compared to certain features of MM Director.

I see it limited compared to JAVA comparing certain math algorithms.

I see it limited in making certain CG for broadcast.

I see limitation in print compared to COREL.

All said and done, poor flash has nevertheless tried to keep all happy to an extent.

Knowing Microsoft's poor sense of creativity (Its logo and the default wallpaper says it all), I wonder how much they must have accomplished them in silverlight?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, December 15, 2007 9:26 AM by Got One

Is Microsoft like a mac?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, January 4, 2008 7:59 PM by Will

1.Ruby on Rails (or PHP)

2.Flash (using sendAndLoad();)

Two steps and nearly every 'benefit' of SL has been dealt with. I am yet to run into any problems with this method, and AS3 has been quite nice to me.  I'd like an example of a site that uses SL better than Flash (that didn't take 2 years and a team of MS developers) and then maybe I will consider getting back into SL.

I worked in it for one month and was so frustrated!  It took 1 week to learn AS3.  If Microsoft continues to release Betas that drive REAL developers away... Well, SL will go the way of Vista.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, January 6, 2008 9:24 PM by DRM-X

Which one supports DRM functions? So that the rich media content can be protected?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, January 9, 2008 7:25 AM by BigA

"Want to move something across the screen in 3 seconds? Calculate how many frames 3 seconds will take, then calculate the matrixes required for each frame along the way."

The class fl.transitions.Tween allows animating object properties by using seconds. Am I missing something here? You can tween several properties simultaneously.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, January 11, 2008 9:10 AM by pix

"..Silverlight supports the WPF animation model, which is not only time based instead of frame based, but lets you define the start and end conditions and it will figure out how to get there for you. .."

Doesn't Flash do the same?!?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:56 AM by FNF

BigA  Just from experience you do not want to use those transtions.Tween classes all they do is add the image in a new position on a new depth. So if you keep using them you will eventually run out of depth levels. The best possible way is to code you animation using a time based method like intervals. But can be very complicated.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, January 16, 2008 10:54 PM by jol

Silverlight cannot do anything that Actionscript can't.  Flash has better graphics, and Microsoft tends to put product useability second to product efficiency.  First of all, AS3 is much faster than silverlight.  Silverlight is trying to catch up to AS2, to be honest.  Even if silverlight was faster, it wouldn't be as easy to use.  

As far as timeline vs frameline, frameline is much better for animation, and you don't need a timeline in flash for games and interactive material.  Most games are made in under 5 frames, and the frameline only really deals with how fast the intervals are called, and can be dynamically controlled, depending on the computer speed.

Silverlight can program in C#, but AS3 is very similar to Java, has an OOP based programming structure, and most functionality can be achieved via smart programming, regardless of what the code lets you do.  I planned out a fully functional 3d Engine in about 3 days with flash, using nothing but variables and some mathematical functions.  Keep in mind that flash is for games and animation, not desktop APPS.

Flash has a good product and amazing market foothold.  Microsoft won't have to worry about distribution (just put it in as an update), but flash is already available on most mobile devices, ipods, cell phones, etc.  

Silverlight supports more (microsoft) video formats, but flash has this area too.  Almost every video site in existence uses flash and loads up a .swf or .flv file.  Flv dominates all other video formats amazingly, can be streamed, and has really good quality and low file size.  

Adobe has good tool integration.  They have photoshop, illustrator, and the whole macromedia production suite designed to work in tandem.  Microsoft's programs aren't as cohesive and are usually designed to perform individually of each other.

And if I had to make an outlandish statement, I'd say that Director is the future.  I've heard that they will start offering actionscript support in director, which means that flash games will be backed by Direct 3d (salty for microsoft, because SL can't do that).  Eventually though, I think that Flash and Director will merge.  Flash will have 3d support, Director will have 2d support, and actionscript will have adapted to fit accordingly.  What will matter a lot though is who gets hardware support first.  I think Adobe will have this, considering the current state of Silverlight, but that is really not something I can back up.

Vista is a beast to get working, lots of out-of-the-box glitches, but once you get it updated and customized, it is a very comfortable, pleasant OS.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, January 20, 2008 4:19 AM by Perry

jol, please do us a favor and don't even begin to compare actionscript to c#. actionscript is a toy compared to vs.net and c#.

as per this whole discussion of developer vs designer debate. we're talking about the future of making web applications become as sophisticated as desktop applications. Please make a distinction between lame little flash "ads" that plague the internet to RIAs which is what SL is intended for. In the app land, the developer is the "ruler" and not the designer. For this reason, SL will win the RIA war. and flash will continu

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, January 24, 2008 12:04 PM by Dan

"If you have server components, once again you need to switch back to .NET and throw out all the classes that the run time is using."

You can code server side functions in Actionscript.

"text"

You can embed fonts in Flash.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, January 24, 2008 2:53 PM by Bob Wiley

Ha ha ha... Vista kicks ass?  Or did you mean sucks ass?  In my opinion, Microsoft, specifically the Vista department, should be criminally prosecuted for the amount of delay they have added to everyone's lives for all that extra clicking... "Someone is trying to access the printer, Allow or Deny?"  WTF do you think I clicked on it for?  Yes, that someone is me... DUH... really, what is next... I can see the next operating system after Vista, asking another round of stupid questions, "Someone just clicked Allow!  Are you sure you want to allow?  Okay, let me see your drivers license and social security card, and then I will present the next stupid question to you"

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 9:16 PM by Sorry

I think you need to work on your Flash skills, some of your assertions are dead wrong, way, way wrong.  It is nice that you like Silverlight so much though.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:44 PM by Jot

# Sorry > totally agree.

Note: I already use Flash together with c# and .NET.... whats the prob?

(dont get confused, flash does not execute .NET/code but can very well communicate with them in many ways)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, February 2, 2008 6:07 AM by Steve

For me it looks like Microsoft and Adobe will have and hold their own technology fans and artists, creating big things. It's not the question: "Silverlight" or "Flash / Flex". Both will stay interesting technologies, and surfers will have to install both; I can't see, that in the end there will be only one hero, having the whole market for himself. They'll split the market, and there's enough potential for Adobe and Microsoft to earn a lot of money.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, February 8, 2008 2:38 AM by andy

I think Silverlight is much better.  I love adobe and all, but when it comes to development nothing can get close to microsoft.  C#, Vb, and  the asp.net framework are far far beyond actionscript, and flash.  I agree that a big problem is going to be distribution.  All around it seems way better than flash, but it also depends on developers actually implementing one or the other. I am a .net developer, and a flex developer.  I honestly find actionscript horrible as far as code, but I use it, cause almost everybody has the flash plugin.  But once again I say Silverlight is a much better "tool" for web development.  With C# it has the best of back end with its own front end eyecandy.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, February 15, 2008 6:26 AM by Rebus

Excellent article.  In-depth.  

However, you risk undoing all your good work with this uninformed catch-all general statement:

>> Visual Studio.NET is by far the most powerful

>> and most popular IDE

I am a Java developer and manage two C# developers.  The power of Eclipse JDT (Java Development Tools) is awesome and includes frequently needed features not included in Visual Studio .NET 2005 Microsoft distribution [1] such as:

a) Open Type Hierarchy

b) Open Call Hierarchy

IN MY OPINION (important qualifier which you did not use), Eclipse is a superior IDE to Visual Studio.

[1] I'm not talking about 3rd party addins.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:25 PM by palm bay fl florist

rebus - spot on eclipse rocks java / php even as3 but we're talking MS here i think.  i am beginning some research on SL after working with the new javascript EXT 2.0 libs and being a bit frustrated at the effort.

does anyone have any other useful links to SL evaluations?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:18 PM by Joe

yeah yeah yeah... but why? Was Flash not doing it okay?  I forsee Microsoft trying to strong-arm itself into Adobe's marketshare. They will force users to utilize their plug-in and make back room deals that limit the content delivery method to Silverlight. Since Microsoft can preinstall whatever it wants in Windows, it'll appear to be "better" or at least "easier" to the end user.

This is the same company that put out Vista... who's CEO saw no future in the iPod or iPhone. Do we want to look to them for innovation?

They just wanna pull another Netscape.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, February 22, 2008 12:12 PM by Michael Sync

amazing article.. thanks..

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, February 22, 2008 1:18 PM by Tim Lucas

As a web designer, one of my favorite things about flash is being able to produce artwork in other Adobe applications such as Fireworks, Illustrator, and Photoshop and bringing them in fully intact, with transparency intact, and maintaining vector artwork.

How does Silverlight work with other graphics packages?

Also, most designers are on Apple computers and I'm not certain you can develop Silverlight with Mac - correct me if I'm wrong.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, February 22, 2008 3:14 PM by casey stalnaker

andy -

"...I love adobe and all, but when it comes to development nothing can get close to microsoft.  C#, Vb, and  the asp.net framework are far far beyond actionscript, and flash."

Did you really just state the MS server-side technologies are are far far beyond Adobe client-side technologies? Please tell me you understand the difference.....*sigh*.

That’s it dude...get back into your MS  developer hole - your blogging privileges are hereby revoked. Your postings are making us all dumber. Disclaimer: I apologize for the personal attack…”I didn’t have to do it; I felt I owed it to him.” lol. 8]

But seriously folks – imho, Steve has it right. I agree that it isnt going to be a "one way or the other" proposition. Things change fast in our line of work. If you have the skills, you may as well learn all you can about both platforms. It remains to be seen if Silverlight will gain popularity (note: popularity doesn’t mean penetration, btw)...but if it does, we should all embrace it. After all, in most cases, it is our clients who will dictate the technology we use, not our personal preference.

I would add that flash is going nowhere by the way – I think most end-users would agree that Flash has become a defacto standard on the internet, much to the dismay of you-know-who. Still, if Silverlight ends up creating a gravy train like Flash has for much of this past decade...I’m on board. But that said... It's still going to be up to creative professionals to create the appeal, and ultimately the demand. I think our friends in Redmond would be wise to remember this. (…in other words….MS : Play nice with ADOBE, and APPLE if you expect to gain market share!)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:24 PM by JC

Well, I think most of the discussion and comparison made here would not make much sense when Silverlight 2.0 comes out. Seriously cannot compare flash with Silverlight 2.0. You maybe able to compare Flex with it in some way. Flash is not powerful enough for large scale applications, and security issue is also a concern. ActionScript 3.0 apparently does better programming, but still too weak for complex logic. Also, flash is a bit too slow sometimes.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, March 6, 2008 12:47 PM by Den

When I look at a nice flash design, my reaction is

" wow, it looks so good, like a piece of art.."

For silverlight design, all i can

think of is "a nice computer program"

Would it be nice if Adobe considers Flex+C# !

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, March 7, 2008 11:49 PM by John

Very nice article.... the best part that Microsoft did is integrated silverlight with Visual Studio that fact alone means a lot and a huge + for this product.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, March 10, 2008 1:33 PM by Adeel Ata

Hi guys,

i have been listening to this flash and silverlight war thing it is interesting but i was just wondering that if i want to create a small website to run a flash game on that using silverlight can i do that.

I know it may sound stupid but i am new to this flash and silverlight thing

Thanks

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:32 AM by Ken

casey said

What exactly will Silverlight accomplish for the end user by ANY version (2.0 or otherwise) that Flash doesn’t already?

(again, I stress what will it accomplish FOR THE END USER - no one but us MS developers care about CLR integration!)

I'm not a developer, but my huge gripe with Flash is that they apparently have no plans to continue support for Windows Mobile. The latest flash player for WM is FlashPlayer 7. FlashLite 2.1 is based on Flash 7. FlashLite 3 is being released for Nokia phones, but in the Adobe Labs development forum an Adobe rep asked what people wanted to see. When asked about when support for Windows Mobile would come out, he responded that there were no plans for FlashLite3 for WM and wondered why anyone would want that. I want to view flash video (like MLB.tv - WMV in a flashplayer that requires flash 8 or higher) on my ppc but can't because Adobe won't provide that functionality to WM.

MS just announced that SL is coming out for WM. If Adobe is not going to support a platform then I applaud MS for SL.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:28 PM by Chris

I total agree with you.  If Flash is not dead now,

It'll be in a year or two.  SilverLight has the backing of .NET and Microsoft.  It's here to stay and make us developers' lives a lot easier.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, March 13, 2008 10:27 PM by Jr. Developer

The problem with AS3 is that it's not ideal for desktop apps that need to communicate with low level drivers.  For example, reading a serial port, usb port, writing Bluetooth stack, etc.  Flash/AS3 is geared for games and advertising.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, March 17, 2008 6:20 PM by redScorp

Silverlight is not about what you can or cannot do with flash. I believe Microsofts thoughts about the Windows Presentation Foundation and Windows Communication Foundation (which includes powerful tools when used with Silverlight) are for the developers to easier build rich applications for the web. Beeing a future-optimist about silverlight I don't see any problems running for instance Microsoft office as a web-application..

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, March 21, 2008 11:40 AM by wilbergill

i worked with flash and enjoyed my work. In flash 4 i wrote the first tiled based version of pacman and gained plenty of work for other game development. After the .com bang i moved to .Net for information system design. I welcome Silverlight, the .Net IDE is excellent.

This has renewed my interest in rich web application development and i look forward to messing around with Silverlight

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:35 AM by ChrisG

I've read most of this post (a lot of down time at work) and to make a statement like flash is dead is...silly. That in combination with "vista rocks" just makes me feel like this is a Microsoft add. Now that I think of it, this came up tops on my Google search...

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:33 AM by Joe

I think it is incorrect of you to compare Flash to Silverlight. If you are gonna compare Silverlight to something you should compare it to Flex.

I am a "Flash Developer" but lately I've started to explore what flex can do for us as a company and I must say it has many advantages over Silverlight. The main one being that it is a finished product not a beta being stuff down peoples throats. We had some .net developers try it out and I can tell you with out a doubt we will not be using Silverlight in its current state.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:26 AM by Riverwind

Funtionally Silverlights is better than Flash. But the problem draw back to the gus of Microsoft. The support for silverlight is not acceptable other than using internet explorer. This is the nightmare for web developer as many different browser are available, such as firefox and opera. So Flash still will be the major tools in recent years.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, March 28, 2008 3:38 PM by Sam

on the whole Linux subject,

Silverlight is going to have a problem, mostly because Microsoft has Windows, and Linux has Linux. Yes, Linux is open source, but the name is copyrighted.

I personally won't be involved in this, mostly because it is going to become a ordeal (and personally I like Flash way better).

And apart from this, animation is so much better frame based, in the sense of tradition animation, FBF, and tweening.

in conclusion, FLASH WILL RULE!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 30, 2008 3:38 AM by BR

Is it possible to use silverlight as a standalone app?

Then is it possible to use silverlight with full access to system resources/NOT sandboxed (in an intranet or as a standalone app)?

I know wpf but wpf is too large and windows only.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, March 31, 2008 2:19 PM by antoniobrandao

Please correct that information about Flash animation being timeline based. Flash animation IS TIME BASED as long as you use a class like Tweener, Fuse, or many others available. You cannot speak of flash without referencing these.

Timeline animation is for newbies.

I make scripted animation based on time, with the3 Tweener and others.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, April 3, 2008 7:54 PM by James Savage

I run Linux, and both Apple and Windows (well everyone actually) doesn't support us. So we are usually left to wait or write our own versions of things. Now Microsoft hates Linux so is there any chance they will produce silverlight for Linux. So far only windows is supported. And if they do will they be fair and make sure it A) runs well B) has all the same features. I just don't like any one company to be gatekeeper. Also you say it uses Windows Media... which is still proprietary. I'm not saying use OOG but it would be nice to have a good (at least MP3 quality) open audio/video codec that could be globally used, instead of WMV/WMA. The only thing I hope is that this doesn't turn into ActiveX again. I haven't read much because I don't go into Flash at all, but I do like to read up on stuff. And before people say something, just cuz' I use Linux doesn't mean I hate windows, I just see flaws in leadership and judgment which exist in all aspects of tech, but I find a community as a more fair way to dictate things.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, April 8, 2008 11:47 AM by ana. =)

hi..  

i think SL gives us good oportunities to develop

in a different and powerful way.

. and wich one is better? or the best?..

. well i just think that we are better in Flash..

it just cuestion of time..!!

Lets learn to light up the web..

saludOos.!!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, April 16, 2008 2:46 PM by DDtMM

I've been in the planning stages for a new site that's going to have some multimedia components.  I compared Flash and Flex with Silverlight... I was new to both.

At first I thought it was a done deal that I would use Flash since it is pretty standard.  But ActionScript really got me down.  It took me many hours to make a mp3 player from mostly cut and paste code I got from the web.

I decided to give Silverlight 2 beta a chance and I've been very impressed.  It has been much easier to write code that can be used in the long term.  I was able to create a copy of my Flash mp3 player pretty quickly sans some of the animation elements.  I felt much more comfortable adding more and more elements without the fear of creating a mess like my Flash became.

I've looked into a lot of other aspects, like FlexBuilder on the Eclipse IDE and Expression Blend (which is a pain in the tuckus).  In the end, I've decided to go with Silverlight.

Hopefully there will be good cross platform support.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:15 PM by Greg

I've worked with VB.NET and ASP.NET for several years.  Writing DLLs and other backend code with  VB.NET is fine (though almost any language would do).  Desktop apps using VB.NET are considerably slower than similar desktop apps using VB6 -- can someone explain that one?  ASP.NET is absolutely ridiculous; the forms designer is awful and having to simulatenously deal with HTML, Javascript, XML, Ajax, and the VB code-behind all in order to produce a business web application is literally painful.  On top of this, Microsoft is continually "improving" all of their products and forcing us to buy the latest Visual Studio, .NET framework, 3rd party controls, etc.  Now they're touting Silverlight and when you finally manage to put all of the right pieces together just to try it out, you realize you can't even drag controls onto the form designer in VS2008.  Add XAML on top of everything else and MS's normal hellish process of compiling and distributing applications, and -- what's the point?  Why are you people SO excited about this expensive mess?  We gave Flex a try about a year ago and -- ahh! -- it was cheap, it worked immediately, it was easy to compile and distribute and it was inherently cross-platform.  Aside from having to learn ActionScript (which wasn't that hard), I can't see any drawbacks.  We've spent less than a few grand on licenses and that's ALL we've had to spend (haven't had a need for 3rd party controls and their charting add-on is great).  Doing the same thing with MS products from scratch would have cost us a fortune.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, April 18, 2008 2:21 AM by Dale

Sweet.

So whilst you're listening to Zune, whilst your partner plays your XBOX, you can log into Windows and boot up Visual Studio - you'll have the portability to develop for Windows Mobile and the power to run apps in Internet Explorer.

One problem - sometimes there are better alternatives to Microsoft products. RIA is just one of those areas where Flash wins. Just ask the world's population.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:45 AM by dan

Silverlight 2.x i think its a beta version - it runs under windows 2000.

People asking earlier abt why win 2k is important - its because the very few who still use it are IT pros and have big voices they like to sound off at Microsoft!

There have been many occasions where microsoft has backed down and then released software with compatability for windows 2000 including for example the remote desktop connection software.

They will however never release anything like IE on win 2k above version 6.  Its a way of forcing people to upgrade their OS even though its fine.  (think "backports" repositories in Ubuntu - you won't have to upgrade your OS so much because people backport code and elements of the OS can ve independantly upgraded).

My opinion on SilverLight?  I have not seen one good example of its use.  Enough said except one more thing - Microsoft is on a plan to get into other peoples markets and corrupt them and now it's Flashes turn. Microsofts XML "standard" is another good example of their strategy.

So long as they play these games they can go to hell.  The day they release a really good product and have it accepted by merit alone - thats the day I might buy it.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, May 1, 2008 12:27 PM by reza

personally , I think silverlight is rubish comparing to flash.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, May 3, 2008 8:57 AM by Fahim Ilyas

Silverlight 2.0 seems to be very promising and flex cannot compete it in a longer run.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, May 5, 2008 7:18 AM by Jane Carter

So long as users have to restart their browser in order to install Silverlight we won't be using it.  Even if we lose 10% of our customers it's not worth any advantages which Silverlight might have over Flash.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, May 5, 2008 9:52 PM by Nolasco

The day Microsoft buys Yahoo, I will buy shorting the heck out of Adobe.

Why?

M$ will push silverlight so badly through YahooM$ portal,  it'll make Silverlight the standard... or so they say...

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, May 8, 2008 12:42 AM by dave

silverlight is the worst name ever. it sounds like a weapon in world of warcraft.....long live flash!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, May 8, 2008 7:23 AM by gamian

Flash features:

1.) Browser Plug-in available across all browsers latest editions

2.) Streaming Video possible.  Video delivery capabilites are available as .flv files which  is optimized size.  

3.) Handles in XML format data

4.) Both programmatic and timeline animation.

5.) Index by search engine (?)

6.) Runs in  Windows/Mac and Linux Support

7.) Silverlight applications are not smooth as Flash's ones.

8.) Flash/Flex supports: sound processing, per pixel bitmap editing, bitmap filters (convolution, color matrix etc), bitmap   effects (drop shadow, blur, glow), frame based animation (i.e. hand made),    webcam, microphone, text input, built in file upload/download, local data storage, linux player   BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY for 10 years so far finally 1.1meg  footprint… these are just a few features.

Microsoft Silverlight

1.)  Silverlight is compatible with a range of browsers, including Internet Explorer

IE6, IE7 Safari and Firefox.

2.) Silverlight can do programmatic animation.  

3.) Needs another ui creation tool Expression Studio from MS

4.) Handles all forms of data and dotnet classes

5.) Search Engine indexing is possible

6.) Silverlight XAML doesn't stream!  

7.) Runs in windows only

8.) Alpha release.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, May 8, 2008 1:52 PM by Foeaxe

I do think that silverlight has a long way to come. But i see it being a far more plausable road for development once it has been adopted more. I have just completed a microsoft training course in silverlight/wpf and it is actually wonderful to work with. But i still find myself authouring elements with adobe tools then simply porting them over. I do like the way they have made Expression import AI format,

Microsoft will win this fight because they have not yet lost any fight they set out to win, It is targeted at an entire team of developers rather than just the designer and is generally more flexible.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, May 8, 2008 2:18 PM by Mao

There's a post from a while back by Quentin that says "developers can't design and designers can't develop". This is such a narrow point of view. I can do both.

But more to the point about this article... The statement "Flash is dead" is closer to reality than one might think. I'm part of a team developing an MMORPG that's supposed to run in a web browser using Flash. ActionScript is supposed to be Flash's native language, right? Well, it lack one of Flash's most fundamental issues: LAYERS!!!

Anyone who has used Flash knows that layers are the very first thing you need to put some order in what you do. In this game we're developing, we're creating a world that uses movieclips, which are imported from independent SWF files. So far so good. Now we import the avatar... another movieclip, no problems here. But if the avatar walks around a tree, for instance, it was to "be seen" in front of it and behind it, depending on where he stands.

The logical solution would be to swap layers or something like that, right? Wrong! ActionScript does NOT include a single class, member or method to use layers. THEY DON'T EXIST. The only thing that "programming language" has is the index of the graphic element. Now suppose you have 20 avatars and the world has yet another number of graphic elements in the scenary. You have to check against every element there on stage. Of course, this kills performance, specially if you include real time communication among the users, movement and every thing that an MMORPG has.

Now, I've been doing some experiments with Silverlight and I've reached a simple opinion: Silverlight is better simply because it uses a REAL language, or better yet, a real developing environment like .NET. Anyone want to compare it against a real poor scripting language like ActionScript? A simple script aganist a framework that compiles your code. Is there anyone who could actually make that comparisson?

Flash is nice for designers, that's it... Silverlight is nice for designers and powerful for developers, especially when you consider something like XAML in the equation. A simple XML-based language that actually helps you understand how to code in C# or VB. I've tried it, it works.

True, Silverlight is in its initial stages. Who can actually say that Flash was perfect from day one? Besides, whether we want or like it or not, Microsoft shows the way things are done. I'm amazed they didn't come up with something to compete against Flash sooner. That only means that they took their time investigating and preparing. That's good thinking from any perspective or point of view.

Oh, I was forgetting. The try-catch block? Doesn't work in ActionScript.

I prefere Silverlight. I hope the next game we create is using Silverlight... or a 3D game.... anything's better than Flash!!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, May 12, 2008 3:00 AM by andy

flash is better period. MS always trying hard to extract money from copying other famous application. They wont win over Flash . Hope they'll lose a large penny for doing a trash silverlight .  

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, May 12, 2008 3:04 AM by andy

flash is better period. MS always trying hard to extract money from copying other famous application. They wont win over Flash . Hope they'll lose a large penny for doing a trash silverlight .  

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:02 AM by gamian

Visualization is important in any type of games/apps.  The timeline metaphor is best suited for that kind of scenario rather than codetweaking.  Flash way of approaching a game/apps has terrific advantage where u have set of inbuilt tools storyboard kind of scenes and visually reusable movieclips.  These logically fit into our scheme of things.  

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:25 AM by Website Design Melbourne

Thanks Jesse. It is a great information on these two formats. This inspired us to write a similar article that We have written on our blog which reference some of the points noted by you, with reference credit note clearly mentioning that these are your findings.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:42 PM by eque

I support flash. I'm a web developer for several years. I'm a creative art director.

The decision Is simple, Microsoft realized that flash played a very serious role in the future of computing across all devices. So they came up with silverlight. Why didn't they think of this before ?  Are they just trying to survive knowing that flash will rule television and mobile delivery in the future ? They want IN !!

I support macromedia for bring flash to unbelievable heights and setting a foundation for future applications and content delivery.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:46 PM by eque

oooh man, Mr. Bill Gates....

Nolasco said it best, I swear I knew the same thing.

If M$ buys yahoo, they will use it to push their silverlight product. forcing users to install it or key features will not work.  I'm loosing respect for Microsoft because alot of their products are just imitations of other successful ideas.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:46 AM by Luke

Here is my opinion/

I was curious and start using blend 2.5 preview , This is a hugh step forward from microsoft The UI is easy to use ,better than flashc3 ..maybe ,on some usabiltiy.. but as a designer it's easier because blend creates alot of (code xaml) for you. ex. interactive a button the event trigger dropdown  and choose a timeline for the event is great. changing the objects look and colour in the scene is also better than flashcs3. and importing Obj 3d objects is fun and i want to rotate a 3dobj in a timeline when i press a button. BUT then I lost interest , Silverlight 2 doesn't support viewport 3D..

Flash 10 player can rotate in Z space and when Adobe comes out with their Thermo application

that will replace flashcs3..silverlight will be a step behind..

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:57 PM by Ryan

This isn't silverlight vs. flash. This is visual studio/silverlight-expression blend/asp.net/ms-sql vs. flash/flex/eclipse.

Sorry folks, but the former is just a better technology overall. Why? Because Microsoft knows how to write the very best tools for programmers. It has done so for years. That's a plain fact.

Does flash have linq? does flash have a native database? (you probably have to end up with some php/mysql hack). Also can you even begin to compare actionscript with c#? can you debug and put breakpoints in both client side and server side code such as with asp.net + silverlight? Say you want designers and programmers to work together, with

microsoft you have plain text xaml. How are you gonna source control a flash file?? c'mon people... get with it.

I wholeheartedly support Microsoft. Sure, it's easy to "hate" on them. But they sure as hell make the best programmer tools. All you flashers out there you can keep making those little interactive ads. But as far as enterprise applications and RIA's go, step aside.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 30, 2008 2:56 AM by stempy

Flash  <--> Being around what 10 years or so, excellent adoption, however with a programming model that was tacked onto an animation platform.

Result: Excellent animations, Games, intros, some small applications, but not heavy RIA's, many of these have gone to AJAX based beasts.

Silverlight <--> very new, lacked features and controls in Silverlight 1.0, now onto v2.0 which is a dramatic improvement in a short time. Silverlight is built from the ground up with an excellent programming platform (.Net), has top notch IDE integration (Visual Studio), and improving on the Designer Environments (Expression Blend)...Built for real application development, not just animations, or games... The technology is superior to Flash/AS.   They built solid foundations upon which to improve.

As to adoption, well who hasnt adopted windows.. , say what you like about XP,VISTA whatever, but they still have the market, Silverlight adoption will be tied into developers using the product, people will install the plugins because they want to see the content, eventually it will become transparent pretty much like how flash has become.

Flash may not be dead, however people have being wanting RIA's for sometime, many have tried with AJAX, which is just too klunky, and flash is cumbersome to say the least. Great for animations and games but as Ryan above said, time to step aside.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 30, 2008 9:08 PM by stempy

Another Reason why silverlight will take off is developers will lead the way, as silverlight is geared for developers (where flash is geared for designers, though silverlight is improving in those aspects) .

Applications can be made by developers without animations and design, however it is much harder for a designer to design something and  provide functionality for it without the developer. Building an app with functionality can be done without design, but design without functionality cant.

Silverlight makes it simpler for .Net Developers to provide rich media interfaces, this could dramatically shorten the development lifecycle between backend business logic and user interface integration.

I've often worked with PHP <--> Flash, ASP.Net <--> Flash because it was the only means of providing a nice interface, however it's not a clean solution and tiresome to debug..... Bring on Silverlight 2.0 and XAML!!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, June 1, 2008 6:38 PM by Rodrigo

Silverlight is only in second version,imagine the future potencial...bye Flash

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:53 PM by jessie

actually silverlight is dead, for the same reason zune lost trying to beat ipod for the same reason every Microsoft product lost trying to beat a competitor, except for the OS industry, you only win the lottery once

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:30 PM by bernard foster

wow...where to start. I actually read most of those above me.

jesse ezell :

My only objection to your comments relates to your statement that using flash/flex as a development environment was bad b/c you are limited to using actionscript, and not your existing skills. I dont see how that's a delta.

Fact: Actionscript and Javascript are both ECMA script v3....and Actionscript is getting close to compliance with ECMA script v4. If you dont know javascript, you arent a web developer, and if you do, you already know most of actionscript. By doing either, you are gettng better at both.

Quentin:

Absolutely correct. Dont compare SL to Flash...compare it to Flex.

qwerty:

Absolutely correct. MS builds better dev tools...and MS devs are in abundance. But wrong about this old notion:

"Flash is an graphics/animation tool that developed a programming model".

Flash "was" stictly a graphics/anim tool....but Actionscript was rewritten from the ground up as an OOP Languge with Actionscript 3.0. Use Flex if you dont want graphics tools at your disposal, use Flash if you want the ability to create as you  develop.

Things change fast.

jtadros :

Tisk. Tisk... MS does indeed develop superior developer tools imho  - but you are way off the mark thinking they can take graphic designer market share away from Adobe. MS will not make it very far making graphics tools. Its just not going to happen folks. In fact...keep it down. You could lose an arm talking like that around the creative dept.

Mao:

You cant swap layers...you swap depths, silly.

And Try/Catch works perfectly. ....what game was that you said you were working on again?

casey stalnaker:

You sound like some kind of Actionscript genius.

Who are you and why dont you work for me?

punk:

Amen. Well said sir.

John:

Yeah sweet...Silverlight will integrate with VS! Now what in the hell are we going to do for graphics? (call punk!)

.net coder :

What an objective opinion. Much respect.

...thats all from me. Its been a nice read.

It's 6/11/08.

Do you know where your Silverlight is?

I havent seen it.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:16 PM by peanut gallery

"It's 6/11/08.

Do you know where your Silverlight is?

I havent seen it."

*laughing*

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, June 15, 2008 1:57 PM by Sony Alpha

Thank you very much for Lighting 101. this site has provided me with an understanding of lighting, It's just what I was looking for!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, June 16, 2008 2:50 PM by anil mathew

to Me flash is better. Just wait 2 or 3 years you can see you wrote a wrong article .

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:50 PM by Shnitzelzon

anil, that's because you're a script kiddie

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:57 AM by Stefan Richter

13 months on and I have yet to see any decent Silverlight applications. Everything I have seen looks like a Flash rip-off from 2001.  

Flash/Flex/AIR are delivering NOW and have done so for years. All we hear about Silverlight is how great it'll be when the next version is out.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:06 AM by M

this Article is not accurate "then calculate the matrixes required for each frame along the way" what a hell is he talking about who need matixes on flash , did you use Flash for one time

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, June 20, 2008 4:07 AM by Prince

Your ideal is not fair!

How much MS pay u?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, June 20, 2008 10:14 PM by Ryan

Stefan, that's right. Silverlight 2.0 hasn't even shipped and everyone ALREADY knows it's gonna beat the pants off Flash/Flex/Air.

It's all about Visual Studio. If you're an artist stick to your flash. But we all know where the next gen web applications programmers are going.

Silverlight 4 Life!!!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, June 23, 2008 5:29 AM by Molo

ok i agree 100% percent with the author that it is so easy to integrate SL with the .net framework because, 1- you can use the same classes to compile your SL and create an application that integrates graphics and server side seamlessly, and 2- because you dont need to learn a new language to do it.

On the other hand i think that the author is not being fair to flash, microsoft pushed SL just because they wanted to compete with FLASH, and like some other users said, because they HAD TO if they want to stay in the WEB side of things, flash started as  basic animation software and they integrated the scripting little by little never thinking of competing with MS on the development field, .Microsoft is all about application development nothing else and even though they have been doing this since the birth of windows they still can pull out a system as stable as the OSX os why because they are too lazy to develop a new system core or a new way of doing things, they are known to build one thing on top of the other sort of upgrade over upgrade over upgrade same thing is going on with with SL. scalability is good and its always good to re-use old things to build new things but i think they are way too much over their heads and it is just getting TOO OLD, Microsoft needs to change, whos on this with me?, microsoft sucks at design, they suck at pretty much everything that has to do with nice graphics and user interface. now that said. why doesn't the author compare microsoft's design software to any of the adobe applications for example photoshop to PAINT? if you are gonna pull the .net framework to SL then please do so with adobe and understand that adobe is a DESIGN oriented firm moving towards application development, Microsoft is an application development corporation always trying to compete with the software of newer smaller companies that bring the new trends to the market. examples:

Opera i believe was the first browser to integrate tabs

then Firefox started to gain ground with tabbing and guess what microsoft makes IE7 with the tabbing feature

Apple comes out with a new OS microsoft releases vista

Yahoo designs a new email interface for the web(I know it was similar to the interface of that of microsoft outlook, but hey that was a reason for microsoft to have develop it for the web before than anyone)  hotmail does the samething after

now microsoft feels like they need to come out with a similar flash like product and they do, and since they already have all the scripting languages to back it up and the power they have on the industry they go ahead and release SilverLight,

.NET developers are of course happy because they dont have to learn anything to adapt the new software and i think that that is just plain boring and laziness on their part. and if i offended you please get over it because im the same, i started learning ActionScritpt 1.0 then 2.0, transitioning to 3.0 and web standards CSS, javascript, and PHP and im too lazy to start learning .NET why because i can do anything with FLASH PHP.... why in the he|| do i need to learn .NET.. so we are all in the same boat on one way or another, thats why there are the programmers, designers, animators, writers, and the whole bunch of other 'classes' that are needed to create the best Applications.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, June 23, 2008 5:44 AM by Molo

by the way 'punk' well said but i believe you forgot to close your function/method whatever you call it..

"

Yo

My BACKGROUND(){

"

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, June 23, 2008 1:33 PM by Cole

I found a lot in the original article to be interesting. However, the notion that VC-1 and WMA are standards of media are completely wrong. These are Microsoft standards.

Media Industry has uniformly moved to h.264 and AAC. Maintaining legacy SD formats you mention provides unacceptable quality and compression in the march to HD.

Microsoft cannot reach out to the creative community without being greeted with laughter and getting their hand bit off. Their tools and technology are a non-starter. That mountain is infinitely higher than defeating Flash.

I'm definitely not saying Adobe has all the right answers. They don't. Microsoft will have significant difficulties in new media as long as they believe left-brain can out right-brain the right-brain technologies. It just doesn't work that way.

Who will "win?" The answer may well be -- neither.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:54 AM by coder

Have been developing for 10 years - basically the .NET developers on here are all reacting out of a defensive posture - how is it that for ten years we heard that animation on the web was really bad - but as soon as MS releases a flash competitor - oh - its just brilliant.

MS developers have ALWAYS been so far behind everyone else its sad - but to then talk themselves up is just hilarious.

The comments on here regarding flash are from people who absolutely have not leveraged the full power of flash -

But the most ridiculous notion is that developers are going to dictate to designers what product to use - you have a full suit of integrated media development tools from after effects, illustrator, photoshop, flash, premiere etc, etc and you are trying to tell us that all this will be dropped to satisfy .NET developers pigheaded ignorance ?

Please people - MS has been playing catch up for ten years - silverlight is not even born yet - while flash is alive and dominating - MS is haaaaated - Adobe is loved.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, June 24, 2008 4:01 PM by terry nutkins

It always frustrates me that people, coder (i'm not picking on you here but you are nearest), have some kind of irrational hatred towards Microsoft when in reality they have done something really great here and are continuing to do really great things. My organisation is at the forefront of video on demand both in europe and around the world, if you use VoD you almost certainly use one of our products. critical (but not always possible) to our deployments is cross platform capability. around 75% of our solutions are java based, but we are a multi skilled organisation. Something we as an organisation are against, is the kind of platform bashing evident here, we are heavily into cross polination and a lot of our java developers have been involved in .Net and silverlight and a lot of our .Net developers have been moving between java and .net projects for years. we are also heavily into using flash and flex but silverlight has really opened our eyes. Just a few tidbits, our metrics show that configuration problems are the most time hungry issues there are with java projects, and also if Microsoft were an open source platform it would be MUCH more compelling as an enterprise platform, but also most enterprise customers perception is that MS is not up to the job when all the evidence clearly points to the fact it is, but its also hugely expensive. Java developers love visual studio and rightly so, its the most complete IDE there is bar none. .Net developers love the bleeding edge OO and pattern implementations in Java, IOC etc. one thing i sincerely hope we are is objective. Coder, did you not read the article above, surely this guy has more objectivity than most when it comes to comparing two products? silverlight is great, it is supported by a first class OO framework and will support DRM (hopefully in 2.0 RTM) some of the things that can be achieved are great. Weve recently done a demonstration for a very large US based TV broadcaster where we have implemented Silverlight vs Flash and this has really exposed some of the weaknesses and strengths of the products. Flash/Flex is mature, there are lots of known patterns for solving problems that the framework doesnt readily support. Silverlight is very new but has a much more substantial and robust language and a much more common sense structure, but hey, if they werent avoiding technology because of the vendor then they will have noted comments such as Jesse and what the flash community was and is bemoaning about flash, that makes great sense.. and now we have silverlight, to be honest i dont care about the vendor, this is going to make managing RIA content much more enterprise like, we can re-use code, create rich frameworks and easily and readily port them between projects, and even have first class Unit testing support, these are compelling reasons for us i dont know about anyone else.

as a final note, i;m not sure who likes adobe, but we arent big fans here, their US - Europe pricing is a joke and their attitude is pretty set in stone. but thats just my opinion, i still love CS3 !

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, June 25, 2008 7:52 PM by SilverMouth

coder, or should i say "scripter". If you've been developing for 10 years, or so you claim, you might be aware that visual studio is arguably the best development platform around. You are freaking kidding me if you're saying "MS has been playing catch up for ten years". Open your eyes, douche bag.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, June 27, 2008 3:53 PM by Rush

Coder wins the fool award. Flash was written in C++ using... let me guess... Visual Studio? That's an MS product btw.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, June 28, 2008 4:17 AM by Luke

I think it'd be interesting to see a fast svg / next-gen-javascript solution so at least the rest of us who can't afford VS or Flash can still develop rich web apps..

As for who will win: I think we'll just have both technologies battling it out for ages- we have already seen the start of it with the whole google vs yahoo maps ajax vs flash war. It'll just be a pain for the end consumer who will have to install and keep up to date three different plugins, and possibly adobe air, google gears, oh dear.. the nightmare!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, June 29, 2008 4:20 PM by Larry212

Just don't forget to get the updated js. so it can work with Firefox 3!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, June 29, 2008 11:45 PM by Ashvin Savani - Arckid

I just want to say, All the guys who loves SilverLight, they should not say that flash is dead unless they wrote any code in ActionScript at all. I would not comment on Silverlight features etc., as I've never tried it. I would not comment on it just on my readings.

Flash ActionScript can write telnet client which directly talks through telnet protocol, It can talk **directly** with Pop3 etc., mail servers. So with these kind of powerful language, one can not say that it's garbage to throw in dustbin.

Macromedia / Adobe spent many years to develop it and I am sure Microsoft will even require at least few years to establish the silverlight. And these *few years* Adobe won't sleep.

Microsoft can spread it, along with operating system but dont forget the other major tool Adobe have which is PDF reader and which exists for all operating systems. They already embedded flash player inside it.

About the timeline concept, even Microsoft will implement that, believe me it would be tough concept for .net developers to understand it who are hardcore programmers and never went on time axis. So it would not be that much easier learning curve for controlling motion from code with mass of .net developers even.

So I would just say, Lets wait and watch. Allow the time to decide who wins, who dies and who survives. And even time never decide based on few people's decision.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, July 3, 2008 10:39 AM by Robert Pabst

I don't think Microsoft developed SilverLight to crash Flash. They've developed WPF to allow the operating system to run Vista graphics in DirectX. They've developed WPF to allow designers to design and programmers to program - which is very reasonable in the Agile age. After developing the browser subset (WPF/E) and releasing it to the community, many early adopters adopted the technology and named it a 'Flash competitor'. After that, Microsoft saw the light and started the global rollout.

Maybe Adobe should think about a Flash.NET version with ActionScript.NET (and C# and VB) support.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, July 7, 2008 5:27 PM by TomH

I've been a .NET developer for 4 years at an online marketing agency. I was just recently promoted to head our rich media (flash, silverlight, etc) team.

I don't care either way if one or the other "wins". Our developers are plugin-agnostic and use whatever tool best fulfills our client's needs. I will say this--we have a couple of Flash developers who write ActionScript 3 code that is more complex than any C# I've seen our development team write. ActionScript 3 is seriously strict and very powerful.

Unfortunately the Expression Suite is sadly behind the times when compared to the Adobe Suite. In the marketing world, eye candy is king, even (unfortunately) over content. Companies pay big bucks for cool looking animations and interactive websites.

In my opinion, the day people don't like pretty things is the day Silverlight will dominate. Unless they give up on Expression and tie Silverlight into the Adobe (tried and true) line of creative products like Illustrator and Photoshop.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:08 PM by N_Nik

Also it may seems irrelevant, but believe me or not, if Microsoft succeed in buying Yahoo!, the silverlight will be the winner and its market share will be at least 75% in less than 4 years. Otherwise, there will be room for both applications at least for 7 years and perhaps none of them will die before another new technology become dominant.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, July 15, 2008 6:55 PM by Derek

I agree with Robert Pabst that Microsoft didn't set out to build a Flash killer, and therefore disagree with jtadros that Silverlight is a re-engineering exercise.  

Silverlight is really an extension technology to WPF which was primarily developed to replace the suite of desktop UI platforms: User32/GDI32, Ruby (VB UI model, not Ruby the programming language), Trident, and Windows Forms.  Now, I don't doubt that they began thinking early on about aiming for a technology that could be used for both Web and Desktop development, as Microsoft has been moving in this direction for years, but I don't believe competing with Flash was their goal.

I'm not a Flash/Flex or Silverlight developer, but one of the biggest advantages I see that Silverlight has over Flash/Flex is that both WPF and Silverlight share a common programming model (.Net) and share the same markup (XAML).  This point may have received some mentioning in the course of this discussion, but I don't think strongly enough.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, July 18, 2008 12:10 AM by Imam Raza

I have been working in Flex for one and a half year. I have evaluated silverlight for using in my project. I think following are the features of Flex that are currently missing in SilverLight:

* Binary comunication Support for four languages that Flex provides namely java, .Net, Ruby, PHP.

* Server Pushing mechanism to one particular client (browser).

* Flex Data Management Services that provide auto updates to Client browser UI when any user updates that data.

* LiveCycle Enterprise Suite that enables end user to make workflow.

Regards

Imam Raza

Senior Architect

Folio3 Pvt Ltd

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:46 PM by CarnageBlood

You  got it all wrong! The Adobe team is heading to the right direction because they are targeting all OS"s. Windows is now the dominating desktop OS but that may change. Linux and MAc are not sleeping so who know what may happen in the future!

Soon Flash will have development tools for all platforms so that's a step ahead!

This clonning paradigm Microsoft used over the years may not work this time!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:46 PM by Pete Hurst

CarnageBlood: do you know anything about Silverlight? It's a cross-platform release. Yes, Microsoft are now writing software that works on other operating systems.

When I first read about Silverlight, I thought "this is the future".

Nice to read an article that agrees with my persective so strongly :)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, July 25, 2008 3:02 PM by PC

Ok, it's July 25, 2008.  I've only encountered one Silverlight app in the last six months of web surfing.  Any web startup using Silverlight out there?  More likely they are using AJAX or Flash.

For MS to succeed with Silverlight it has to support the OS X platform in terms of developer tools and the .NET framework as vigorously as the Windows platform.  But we know they won't (eg. IE for Mac, Messenger for Mac) .  :(  Sad, really, because I really like .NET.  

I know that with Flex I can have the same app run the same way on Macs and PCs.  Is this true of Silverlight as well?  Specifically will Silverlight on the Mac run any code that Silverlight on the PC can run?  What is the level of .NET Framework support on the Mac?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, July 26, 2008 7:08 AM by ViolentAJ

I have not seen one Silverlight app in my browsing experience, but I still see plenty of Flash.

If worse comes to worst for Flash, it'll likely still have a following amongst game designers and the like on portals such as NewGrounds, FlashPortal, etc.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, July 30, 2008 2:09 AM by Giuseppe

From the purely technical point of view, Silverlight beats Flash hands off and blindfolded.

There's a subtle problem that keeps me holding on into adopting Silverlight.

Adobe is an OS independent company, therefore they have the best interest in promoting their product to the widest market as possible.

Microsoft is the maker of the Windows OS and the maker of Silverlight.

Once Silverlight becomes popular, how long would it take for them to drop support for, let's say MacOS, older version of Windows, and so forth?

They can use Silverlight as a tool to force people into using their latest OS.

They have already done that. Once upon a time there was Internet Explorer for Linux, quickly dropped once IE became popular.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:39 AM by ViolentAJ

Giuseppe, you make excellent points. You are quite intelligent, for an italian.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, July 31, 2008 1:14 PM by hooplafoo

HEY MY PEEPS, silverlight is cross platform... it runs through a browser! DUH!

Silverlight is for developers who adhere to standards and organization

Flash is for a bunch of techno savvy artists who are more concerned with the final outcome, than they are with the scaffolding of the program.. cut and paste, and fingers crossed  

we'll see how they do with actionscript 3!!!  

ALSO i think its important to note, people will be forced to download flash player 9, and learn actionscript 3

so I think its a head to head battle, the only thing is that silverlight came at a time when the web has matured, flash was there at the begining... so up until the latest rev, flash was built on a wishy washy platform..

I'm learning Silverlight, and forgetting about flash..

OH YEAH one last word that sealed the deal with me:::

INTELLISENSE!!!!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, August 1, 2008 11:35 AM by Mike

I know the development workflow in Sliverlight is smother compared to Flash/ Flex but come on. I truly believe that anyone who has actually done some work with Sliverlight, Expression Studio and Visual Studio realizes that this technology is at least another 18 months away from really being a possible competitor to Flash... and I don't think Adobe will be sitting on their hands.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, August 1, 2008 6:53 PM by Icertottoup

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Уважаемые Администраторы, просьба, не удаляйте это сообщение ближайшие несколько часов.

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, August 3, 2008 3:34 PM by lionel

some silverligth version is suppport by win2000 !

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, August 3, 2008 10:58 PM by beginning web developer

For those who say "I haven't seen any Silverlight apps" perhaps you've heard of NBCOlympics.com which is using Silverlight for their video app.

Try www.nbcolympics.com and click on a video

Thanks

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, August 4, 2008 3:49 PM by Matthew

Is the editing of C# available within Blend? Flash has an integrated environment for both design and development.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, August 26, 2008 5:57 AM by Prorabstroy

строительный портал

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:38 AM by waleefi

I totally agree with Jesse, I think Silverlight is far more superior than Flash, it's just about time for Silverlight to take off and kick Flash in the ass. With a company in the size and power of Microsoft standing behind Silverlight and with the power of .NET vs ActionScript (which truly sucks IMHO), and also with Silverlight supporting 3D (which can be really appealing to game developers) Flash is sure dead!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, August 29, 2008 10:51 AM by nikita835

Hi.

The Good resource. Much what interesting for itself has found.

Bye.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, September 22, 2008 2:51 AM by me?

I think

that MS makes a enemy around

and is killd all...

although just MS may be a winner,

it makes exclusive. totally, industry should be dropped.

just MS is a big commpany. their goal is the top

on the IT industry.

more service,more intuition?

just it starts from stealing.

the Exclusive is much dangerous.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, September 22, 2008 11:18 AM by Lamone

This is like Microsoft updating MS Paint to compete with Photoshop.

Not going to happen.

Besides that, writing a class in SL to do something simple takes loads and loads of lines of code than actionScript.

ActionScript is fine, people that down it are simply noobs.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:20 AM by vladzvimuz

неплохой музыкльный сайт

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:36 PM by The Dalai Lama

He said, She said...blah, blah, blah

Most of the comments here are from people who don't even know enough to realize they don't know sh!t. Young and dumb!

Silverlight vs Flash who cares!!!!

If you are from the Microsoft you will tend toward silverlight or Adobe and Flash.

I've been contracting for a long time and in most cases the client will tell you what platforms you will develop for.

BTW - This designer vs developer mabojambo. To some it might be "what came first, the chicken or the egg".

Answer - All of the various frameworks/tools/O.S. used .Net, Java, Visual Studio, Photoshop, Flash, Illustrator, Windows, OSX, Linux, .... Were created by DEVELOPERS!!!!!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, October 1, 2008 4:26 PM by salman

Flash is going down :}

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, October 6, 2008 3:21 AM by fanboy

"and also with Silverlight supporting 3D (which can be really appealing to game developers) Flash is sure dead!"

not really, if not many ppl have silverlight plugin. what the point developing a game that no one will be playing.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, October 8, 2008 10:38 PM by Test

Hi all!

Bye

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, October 20, 2008 9:45 AM by James Mallorie

Good article! informative! I took the angle from usability and restrictions of display, which in essance IS Flash vs silverlight because they ARE the medium of distribution. however I do agree that if it is the development environment that you are comparing or the laguages used, then you can't just use the global term “flash vs silverlight”

I have just finnished writing a paper titled “Flash Vs Silverlight: A usability evaluation” It is available here:

www.jamesmallorie.com/flashvssilverlight.html

Abstract:

This project explores specific usability issues relating to the Adobe Flash® Player and the Microsoft® Silverlight™ Player in the adoption of Rich Internet Applications. A critical usability research study was undertaken to formulate an evaluation framework. The findings of which, formed the basis of several structured experiments. The Adobe Flash Player and the Microsoft Silverlight Player were systematically tested against the framework, resulting in a thorough and comparative evaluation of current and future usability issues.

Let me know what you think, what would you have done differently?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, October 23, 2008 11:45 AM by Barbara Davis

I am a graphic designer. I have a client who is on a PC and is using Word to create gift certificates and other pieces that need the logo in different sizes.  

I have the Adobe CS2 Suite and this logo was created in Illustrator. I have tried a few things but nothing is giving us a high resolution image when printed. What can I do with this logo so that my client can import it into Word ?

Please help!!!

Thank you,

Barbara Davis

601-754-5210

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, October 27, 2008 1:45 PM by someone

@ barbara davis! install the office printtools.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, November 14, 2008 11:40 PM by Ohiit

Ai... I guess everyone have different opinion about Silverlight between Flash. Adobe Flash is improving since it is not yet perfected. In life it is not about perfection but aiming for improvement, improve, improve, improve. Even Microsoft Silverlight also need to improve as always.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, December 6, 2008 3:34 PM by theswats

for the .net developers,

its really wonderful that M$ is providing these tools for you guys to develop rich content for the web, but dont forget that graphics are very important, and no self respecting graphics team is going to be convinced to abandon the Adobe workflow.  M$ is not providing a proficient art pipeline for production.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, December 7, 2008 8:01 PM by peepsycle

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, December 8, 2008 9:17 AM by Link

Flash is still the "king"

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:31 AM by Extepleelenue

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, January 7, 2009 12:29 AM by Extepleelenue

Приветствуем Всех Владельцев Бизнеса и их приближенных сотрудников!!!

Наша cупермашина в любое удобное для Вас время

может при Вашем желании собрать для Вас

Базу данных потенциальных клиентов для Вашего Бизнеса

В базе все, что необходимо для активных продаж:

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сможет собрать лет за шесть.

Более подробную информацию мы незамедлительно предоставим Вам по Вашему запросу:

Телефон: +79133913837

ICQ: 62-888-62

Email: 6288862@mail.ru

Skype: prodawez

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, January 19, 2009 2:50 AM by Franco Robles

I have applications that were built using C# and silverlight. And as a developer, a fully functional application with great animation is easy to implement with Silverlight and the .NET platform.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:37 AM by Sacrajit

Hi,

  I have a host control implementing AxWindow in c++.

 When using flash Shockwaveflash.Shockwaveflash control provides Movie and Flashvar properties which when set in sequence of flashvars first and then movie property with a .swf file then it runs the video with provided flashvars.

    Not I am trying to do something similar with agcontrol.agcontrol.

  I am using IDispatch and ITypeInfo to enumerate the properties of the hosted control and set the property using CComDispatchDriver.

This works fine when I am using flash but when using silverlight and trying to set property "source" with a local XAML/XAP file its returning me 0x80020009(DISP_E_EXCEPTION).

 Am I doing something wrong here?

Thanks in advance,

Sacrajit

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, February 5, 2009 3:49 PM by alletsGam

Я никогда не верила в самые разные приворотные сглазы, в особенности тогда, когда кто-нибудь пытался заверить, что на мою душу наведено некое проклятье или приворот. Но все-таки всего-навсего чуть больше месяца назад мы с подругой решили все-таки узнать судьбу и обраться к бабушке-гадалке. Меня, собственного говоря взяли туда туда просто за компанию. Ну что же - подумала я - настал мой черед узнать свою судьбу.

Когда мы прибыли к гадалке, гадалка сразу же обратилась ко мне с такими серьезными словами: "Ой, деточка, не дано прожить тебе дольше месяца на земле...". Само собой разумеется, что кроме простой улыбки у меня это ничего не смогло вызвать. А гадалка продолжила свой рассказ: "Навели на тебя, дочка

тяжелейшее из всех проклятье - суть твоя уже почти наполовину не на этой стороне... и жизненный род свой ты вообще не сможешь продолжить из-за той же причины...". Врачи мне уже почти как 3 года назад сказали о том, что я никогда не смогу иметь детей, но как же как она могла это знать - ведь как никак я скрывала это в тайне и ни кому, ни маме, ни папе, ни близким не рассказала о своей проблеме.

После этих слов ясновидица вытащила книгу Вуду, открыла её и сделала какой-то обряд. После всего этого отвлеклась и рассказала, что по традиции желательно принести приношение жертвы. Я едва услышав о жертвоприношении, решила быстро завершить этот магический сеанс и мы с подругой ушли от бабули, не завершив разговор.

Ничего, кроме этого четкого бабушка не не поведала нам - как вам кажется, нужно ли мне беспокоиться?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:42 AM by Ayesha Ambreen

Hi,

Softech Worldwide is a pioneer in Microsoft SilverLight based Rich Media Solutions for Video-based Applications.

They have recently launched an innovative E-learning platform.

UltraLearn.com uses cutting edge SilverLight 2.0- based Ultra Mashup Studio to transform simple one-way videos into high impact Interactive Rich Media with the ability to search and track within Interactive Rich Media Mashups… all on the web, quickly and easily!

For more details visit www.ultralearn.com or feel free to contact me.

Thanks and Regards,

Ayesha Ambreen

ayesha.ambreen@ultralearn.com

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, February 16, 2009 2:52 PM by Jakob

Note: Adobe Flash Player 6 shipped WITH some XP editions.. heh!, they helped Macromedia spreading their software, that now even exceeds the amount of WindowsOS installations.

1. If Both Flash And SilverLight was ideas of yesterday then maybe SL had a chance.. but that's not the case, Flash been out for ages. (Think Windows, why are we stuck with that OS?)

2. ONLY because Flash is so popular, it is what becomes the ultimate "champion" to beat.

Let's say Flash was a WWE-fighter, and SilverLight was a MMA-fighter.. i hate to put this comparison :D, but ofcourse MMA fighter would crush the WWE fighter.. but the thing is..its actaully two very different things, alltho they appear to do the same on screen.

Cheers! :)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, February 26, 2009 7:57 AM by Choc Donut

I'm a powerusing designer type, and I stumble through html, and basic jscript and actionscript, and I dont have my WC3 conventions straight (still works), and I dont use Dreamweaver, but I've yet to see a dev for dummies environment that looks as friendly as VisualStudio. I must be missing something. CSS, XML, HTML, etc I can deal with, but actionscript for that kind of web stuff, sorry, better send me to a class for that.

Lets not forget that Flash has already been the bitchiest of all the graphics programs to deal with. After Effects blows it out of the water graphically AND in ease of use (especially the timeline), along with Pshop, Arkaos, and most 3D and audio programs worth a damn. The only thing Flash ever had was low bandwidth, otherwise I would throw its counterintuitive snotnose off a cliff. Adobe has started to sand down its horrible edges, but it can't do anything about the core, and I can still use it to make some cute low-k animations, but for a backend manipulator, Silverlight looks promising, unless Adobe has come up with something preferable.

Oh yeah, there's nothing special about Flex that I've seen. Different approaches to the codecs

have varying trade-offs. The SIlverlight stuff from the Olympics looked great and ran fine on the machines I tested it on. I could see Flash remaining king on front-pages that dont incorporate masses of selections, but otherwise....

I don't doubt that MLB found some geniuses to make Flash work over SL, but whatever ends up being easiest for me is where I'm headed, and because Flash as a graphic environment is a place I would like to spend as little time as possible, and actionscript for backend work seems intolerable, I'll go wherever, and that's hte bonehead designer's assessment. BTW, coming up with content is no piece of cake, and dallying around in dev/programmer work when you're not one is only a distraction, so whichever one of these clown webdev companies figures that out (or creates a new one) will be king, because I know design sense takes years to get right, too, although templates do provide a shortcut, and that's why everyone's looking to prefab sites these days.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, March 4, 2009 11:49 PM by Fred Mackie

If anyone has any doubt about Silverlight, they should check out the webcasts on www.microsoft.com/.../silverlight.aspx.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:01 PM by Eric Clapton

...Silverlight...just another MSFT attemp to survive...

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, March 12, 2009 7:34 AM by Daz

The number one problem with silverlight is the fact that is not available to linux hosting meanig that not only is it a minority technology to start with, it requires the most expensive hosting requirements.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:33 PM by Abelardo

Fool! You are a fool, surely another fool/no thinking Microsoft fanatic.

Sure Linux/UNIX is too complex for you and you are lazy.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, April 24, 2009 1:48 PM by Jack

As an administrator supporting end users and the machines users use everyday, Flash (and most products from Adobe) has always been troublesome.

Try visiting a website using flash using RDP/terminal services.  The user feedback is terrible.  Many just leave that site if they can.  Serious business apps certainly aren't using it.

Then the problem of updating Flash player in IE.  Unless you apply for a license, download the computer package for redist, good luck.  It might install/upgrade on one machine, and install will hang on an identically imaged machine.  Oh sure, you can read the pages and pages of notes about why the install problem is a Microsoft issue (registry permissions, scripting permissions, etc.) and not Adobe's, but at the end of the day, it is still time consuming to effectively, consistently, and sucessfully update flash player on 100 machines.

Not sure how any of these things play out with Silverlight, but I'd love to see Flash fall off the face of the planet.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, May 10, 2009 7:53 PM by reality smith

Hey Jack(ass)

If you , the administrator had your way, everyone would be using message boards and 8-bit graphics.

Its not up to you dude, thank god. More to the point, the internet is for end users. Not administrators....stop whining.

Your next comment would be "...if everyone just used telephones and snail mail, you wouldn't have to support all these internets!"

rofl. You are an idiot.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, May 11, 2009 6:39 AM by aytek

What about the useless video maker of Windows you are for. it's been almost same for some ten years like ms paint. :)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, May 23, 2009 7:50 AM by Kniginya

спасибо за ваши посты, поднимают настроение

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, June 26, 2009 12:30 PM by Luhter

Flash CS4 is verypowerful. You may think AS is a mess, but actualy is sweet once you learn it.

Just to make an idea, enter the Xbox site and see what they use... and yeah is Flash :).

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, July 13, 2009 8:08 PM by Alex

Check out Fladh to Silverlight migration tools at www.silverx.net

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:03 PM by Alex

The latest Flash to Silverlight migration tool: www.silverx.net

It currently converts text, graphics and animations.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:24 PM by xmlgold

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, August 1, 2009 4:44 PM by sabsSleette

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, August 24, 2009 7:29 AM by Ramu

Does silver light work with classic ASP ?

myjobsworld.blogspot.com

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, August 28, 2009 5:26 PM by Urinoucounc

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, August 28, 2009 7:10 PM by traemarshall

Luhter: "enter the Xbox site and see what they use... and yeah is Flash :)."

It looks like Silverlight to me, most the flash I see are ads.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, August 28, 2009 7:18 PM by traemarshall

Urinoucounc: "The majority of MS websites don't even use Silverlight. Why has msn.com and video.msn.com flash and no Silverlight. Explore videos on Bing if you would ever by accident get lost there....flash etc.."

I don't know what the breakdowns are, but the xbox site is using Silverlight, as are www.microsoft.com, msdn.microsoft.com, silverlight.net, the expressions site, and some others. I supose like anything else it takes time to convert and adopt. As to Bing and MSN they're not really featuring Flash either.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, September 4, 2009 5:00 AM by RuleRulz

from beginning adobe has great perfection in developing things.. especially for design

they will winning on the end i'm sure

just hoping adobe more open than just flex in the future

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, September 8, 2009 1:45 PM by Rafiul Alam

Silverlight follows the same system of Flash. You can call it an upgraded Flash.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, September 8, 2009 4:13 PM by Slisreletix

Hello, glad that I sign up on this forum very usefull

_____________

peace!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:39 AM by Rajdeep Rath

Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, May 04, 2007 5:01 PM by Jesse Ezell

"It also requires a  Java application server."..

ha ha i am going to post this all over the internet. please do your homework first before you write something.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, September 9, 2009 5:09 PM by Slisreletix

Hello, glad that I sign up on this forum very usefull

_____________

peace!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, September 14, 2009 5:07 PM by dozorspb

Пропущено несколько запятых, но на интересность сообщения это никак не повлияло!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:26 PM by Aloe Vera Distributor - myflp.org

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Of course, job is so hard, but in no other case, you can earn so much money with so much much fun and good smiling faces around.

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, October 7, 2009 7:46 AM by скачать мультфильмы новинки

Вы ещё в индексе у Яндекса? А то в послледнее время то и дело говорят на блогах и сайтах, что количество читателей с этого поисковика резко упало.

А оказывается, что не люди стали меньше переходить, а Яндекс просто перестал эти сайты в поиске показывать.. не айс(((

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, October 8, 2009 5:42 AM by googlefakel

Не блог, а поток хороших новостей. Как у вас так получается?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:00 AM by Richard

Haven't you heard of Flex, Jesse? It's XML that you compile into Flash using Adobe Flexbuilder. As for "shape definitions," you can draw a shape on the stage in Flash, manually specify the dimensions in the Properties panel, right-click on it, and convert it into a symbol. That's a symbol that you can instantiate as many times as you want. You can also define a new shape using ActionScript. I have no idea what you're talking about when you mention having to use a 3rd-party SDK to do this. You can use Adobe AIR with ActionScript for desktop apps, as well. I'm not an Adobe evangelist. Nor do I have anything against Microsoft. But, man, you really need to re-write this review because it's just a bunch of lies.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 3:47 AM by ofigennoe.ru

Great article, lots of intersting things to digest. Very informative

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, October 27, 2009 7:39 AM by Mpeg

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, November 23, 2009 1:12 PM by jj

You are assuming that adobe will never improve it's flash format to achieve the things silverlight can do. Microsoft have a track record of producing slow, messy and unreliable software (although they are the standard so everyone has a windows - as do I) and so I think silverlight will fail when it comes to fast processing e.g panorama viewers or fast 3D calculations. Microsoft felt they were losing out to adobe on internet formats, so this is their response.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, December 11, 2009 12:24 AM by Стас

Опубликуйте ещё одну статью на эту тему.Тема действительно интерестная!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, December 25, 2009 8:53 PM by статьи

В принципе если на данном проекте будут писаться в такой же тематике и дальше, буду читать

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, December 26, 2009 11:09 AM by техника

Занятно-занятно, нигде раньше на такое не натыкался

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, December 26, 2009 8:53 PM by олег

Может быть кто-нить поделится ссылочкой на что-нибудь из этой же тематики

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, December 28, 2009 10:57 AM by ауди

Пропущено несколько запятых, но на интересность сообщения это никак не повлияло

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, December 28, 2009 7:23 PM by George

Having a very large userbase is in favor of flash.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:41 AM by 6книг

Может быть кто-нить поделится ссылочкой на что-нибудь из этой же тематики

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:43 PM by статьи

Как по мне - тема раскрыта четко, спасибо за пост

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, January 22, 2010 1:35 PM by EmairwemaRime

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Черная икра сейчас в большом дефиците. Хорошую икру, не белковую, купить сложно. Мы не продаем

белковую икру! Порченую или некондиционную тоже! Мы работаем по принципу: не самая дешевая икра

(можно найти и по 16 тыс за кг), а качественная(такую икру по такой цене найти будет очень сложно).

Наша икра: это не паюсная икра - икринка от икринки отделяется, вкус великолепный.

Иногда бывает икра по 30 тыс - осетровая. Ее покупают на побережье по 3-5 кг, и упаковывают в ящики.

Вкус - потрясающий!

Знайте также, что черной икры чем дальше, тем меньше, и цена ее увеличивается.

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, January 24, 2010 9:11 AM by Duroobeve

Ну не так чтоб уж очень круто. я её ещё день назад просматривал только жалко изображения пропали:(

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, January 24, 2010 1:04 PM by UnmammotsGomy

Спасибо этих именно респект и уважуха!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, January 25, 2010 12:58 AM by atorryfarse

Спасибо побольше бы таких блогов полезных…. респект и уважуха!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, January 25, 2010 4:06 PM by sotEagergog

Ну круто, но нашел для себя интересные реализации ВсЁ не осилил зараз(((

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:11 AM by acarpergy

Хорошо описанные выше, развивать ) Взляните сюда

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:02 AM by dagerrr

В ночь под Новый год

Откройте двери настежь,

Хоть метель метет

И пурга ревет.

В ночь под Новый год

Приходит к людям счастье.

Пусть оно и к Вам придет.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:35 PM by accuckunreari

ггг. нехорошими . покрайней мере пока

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:16 PM by Accousanums

ггг понравилась . посмотрите что вышло

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:30 PM by didlisdigrage

Да это еще ниче нехорошими ? ошибочка вышла

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, January 28, 2010 6:58 AM by BetseiseGog

мне пока так что делать-то? , это та вещь

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, January 28, 2010 12:27 PM by EnzypePlayela

ггг практически бесполезна ? могут ставить

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:34 PM by ashmichaelss

Hello. I just moved to the Miami area. I am looking for a solid company to help me with a refinance. I purchased the house from a short sale and had to do business over the phone because I was living in Az. I dont think that I got a good deal. My interest rate in now 6.99 percent. I think that I can refinance and get a much better deal. Please point me in the right direction.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, March 3, 2010 8:29 AM by mepAppemy

Кто в теме тот понимает

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, March 4, 2010 4:28 AM by exoxawark

Спасибо за познавательную статью!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, March 4, 2010 11:59 AM by JBD

It's funny how easy it is to spot the Microsoft hater comments.  Just evaluate products, and which ever suits your needs best....use it.  It's not that hard.  Don't discount Silverlight just because it's Microsoft's.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, March 4, 2010 1:10 PM by здесь

Хотелось бы купить рекламу на Вашем блоге. Как с Вами связаться?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 4:07 AM by Rengenx

Подписался. четкие мысли! спасибо

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:16 AM by Rengenx

Хоть кто-то здравомыслящий остался

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:27 AM by Rengenx

не согласен с админом. стукни в асю плиз 697466

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 6:43 AM by Rengenx

Пощелкал по рекламе. спасибо за пост

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 7:07 AM by Rengenx

Где-то я это уже видел… А если по теме то спасибо.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 7:29 AM by Rengenx

Где-то я это уже видел… А если по теме то спасибо.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:03 AM by Rengenx

Как душевно рассписано: навеяло слова из centr - "Спаси и сохрани меня и все мою семью!". Спасибо.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:45 AM by Rengenx

Где-то я это уже видел… А если по теме то спасибо.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:25 AM by Rengenx

Ну зачем про такое писать то.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:56 AM by Rengenx

Огромное человеческое спасибочки!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:35 AM by Rengenx

"Сделано на совесть, значит на века" - респект. А эт слова центра)))

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:44 AM by Rengenx

Огромное человеческое спасибочки!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:56 AM by Rengenx

"Сделано на совесть, значит на века" - респект. А эт слова центра)))

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:00 AM by Rengenx

Увлекательно. Поброжу у вас еще. А долго ли писали этот пост?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:23 AM by Rengenx

не согласен с админом. стукни в асю плиз 772696

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:48 AM by Rengenx

Пощелкал по рекламе. спасибо за пост

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 14, 2010 3:23 AM by Rengenx

Где-то я это уже видел… А если по теме то спасибо.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 14, 2010 3:56 AM by Rengenx

Потыкаю по рекламке в качестве благодарности за статью!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:24 AM by mepAppemy

Классный блог. Жду с нетерпением возвращения. Успехов!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:08 PM by Драйв

Хорошая статья. Действительно было интересно почитать. Не часто такое и встречается та.Наверное стоит подписаться на ваше RSS

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, March 19, 2010 8:56 AM by exoxawark

Ждем еще интересных статей=)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, March 19, 2010 9:56 AM by exoxawark

Ждем еще интересных статей=)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Friday, March 19, 2010 2:35 PM by WebMoney

Действительно интересно. Побольше бы таких статей.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, March 22, 2010 6:25 AM by Localic

Побывал на днях в Казани и в Нижнем Новгороде, и очень удивился разбросу цен на услуги интернет провайдеров. Всегда считал, что цены должны быть в принципе одинаковыми в соседних регионах, ан нет. Хотелось бы поинтересоваться, из какого Вы региона (обращаюсь как к автору сайта, так и к его читателям), какой у Вас провайдер, ну и стоимость услуг в месяц. Берём только проводной интернет (любой), стоимость интересует при скорости 1 Мегабит/с.

Заранее спасибо всем, кто откликнется и примет участие в моём скромном исследовании.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:36 AM by saurdydat

Бесплатная игра «Легенда: Наследие Драконов» принадлежит к жанру онлайн фэнтези MMORPG(Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game). Любой желающий может войти в игру, примкнув к одной из враждующих сторон – магмарам или людям, и погрузиться в неистовую битву.

  Попадая в игру, вы оказываетесь в мире Фэо. В мире, где есть две доминирующие расы: магмары и люди. Их вражда началась давным-давно, и на протяжении многих лет идут постоянные войны. Зарегистрировавшись и начав играть, вам придется примкнуть к одной из враждующих сторон и погрузиться в пучину битвы.

  Разнообразие различных видов доспехов и оружия позволят вам подобрать наиболее подходящий  вариант "раскачки" персонажа.  Различные эликсиры и снадобья помогут вам в жестоких боях и дадут вам дополнительные силы для победы над врагом.

[b]Особенности игры[/b]

Главным отличием "Легенды" от других браузерных MMORPG, является новая система боя.

Все ваши действия в бою анимированы и вы можете видеть результат своих действий. Теперь у вас есть возможность принимать участие в битвах, наблюдая бой на экране своего компьютера, а не вчитываясь в логи.

Одежда, оружие, которые вы надеваете на своего персонажа, будут менять ваш внешний вид не только в окне "Информация о персонаже", но и во время боя. Для того чтобы понять, кто перед вами, достаточно просто посмотреть на противника.

Система боя

Бой в "Легенде" одновременно и прост и сложен. С одной стороны - интуитивно понятный любому игроку интерфейс. С другой - огромный набор приемов, спец-ударов и боевых возможностей персонажа, которые зависят от его класса, экипировки и многого другого.

Все это делает бой захватывающим и динамичным, где результат зависит не только от вашей удачи, но и от правильности ваших действий. Более подробное описание боя вы найдете в учебнике новичка.

[b]Типы боев [/b]

В игре доступны следующие типы боев:

Дуэли: Бой один на один. Игрок подает заявку, в которой указывает желаемый уровень противника и выставляет тайм-аут. После этого ждет, пока заявку не примут. Когда заявка принята, подававший заявку решает, хочет он биться с этим противником или нет.

Групповые бои: В заявке группового боя вы выбираете, за какую команду хотите биться, присоединяетесь к ней и ждете начала боя.

Хаотический бой: Приняв заявку хаотического боя, вы попадаете в единый список участников боя, которые будут автоматически поделены на две группы, когда бой начнется.

Данные типы боев доступны только для представителей одной фракции.

[b]PvP - всюду! [/b]

Вы наверное спросите: а как же бои с противоположной фракцией ? Скажем прямо: стоит вам только выйти из вашего родного города - и этих боев у вас будет предостаточно.

Практически во всех локациях, кроме крупных городов, принадлежащих одной из фракций, возможно свободное нападение на ваших расовых противников.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:28 AM by Hogvobfloolve

Отличная статья.Респект автору.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:15 AM by Hogvobfloolve

В принципе если на данном проекте будут писаться в такой же тематике и дальше, буду читать.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:57 PM by busInnose

Кто в теме тот понимает

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:48 PM by busInnose

Спасибо за познавательную статью!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:26 PM by WanoUphomma

Ждем еще интересных статей=)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:14 PM by WanoUphomma

Супер статья! Подписался на RSS, буду следить =)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 28, 2010 7:42 PM by Cackaluanioca

В принципе если на данном проекте будут писаться в такой же тематике и дальше, буду читать.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 28, 2010 8:28 PM by Cackaluanioca

Можно ли взять одну картинку с Вашего блога? Очень понравилась. Линк на Вас есстественно поставлю.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:55 PM by Keerbarve

Супер статья! Подписался на RSS, буду следить =)

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, March 28, 2010 11:42 PM by Keerbarve

Как по мне - тема раскрыта четко, спасибо за пост!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, March 29, 2010 2:09 AM by ideareJarmymn

Можно ли взять одну картинку с Вашего блога? Очень понравилась. Линк на Вас есстественно поставлю.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, March 29, 2010 5:33 AM by RetMettybardy

Спасибо за статью.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, March 29, 2010 6:23 AM by RetMettybardy

Без преувеличения можно сказать, что пост тему раскрыл на все 100.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, March 31, 2010 6:42 AM by remtoller

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, April 4, 2010 3:09 AM by offistevews

Отличный пост, прочитала с удовольствием! Не плохое начало. Удачи в дальнейшем!

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Monday, April 5, 2010 4:08 PM by Philip Malloy

One gent commented "Web applications are not about design in the end. They are about functionality. Programmers are the minds behind the designs. What good is a design if it cannot be implemented to deliver a business solution?" This is the MS philosophy which if you are paying attention to trends in technology, specifically INTERACTION design - you will see that this guy is an apologist and no doubt a programmer or developer. ANY company (or developer) that is worth their salt knows that "IT IS ALL ABOUT DESIGN (User-Exp, not necessarily aesthetics - dont confuse the two). We design for the users - not the developers. Get out of the 20th century dude.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, April 11, 2010 9:38 AM by LOGINout

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, April 21, 2010 1:29 AM by blueberries

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, May 4, 2010 12:37 PM by fuccking you

so many spam here ! wtf ?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, May 4, 2010 12:45 PM by newbie

So...

Flash CS5 vs Silverlight 4

Which one is better ?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Tuesday, May 4, 2010 12:48 PM by newbie

So...

Flash CS5 vs Silverlight 4

Which one is better?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:36 AM by Luong Dien Nhan

Flash is several years before Silverlight but I think Silverlight will be better than Flash.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, February 6, 2011 5:40 PM by Steve

2011...  4 years later... Flash is still everywhere, Microsoft is focusing energies away from Silverlight and downplaying it, HTML 5 will one day kill both of them.

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Wednesday, March 2, 2011 9:19 AM by florist sydney

Well, is there any updates which one is really better?

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Sunday, August 14, 2011 7:33 AM by Shibby - Web Development

In my opinion, Flash is alot better then Silverlight

# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

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# re: Silverlight vs. Flash: The Developer Story

Thursday, April 11, 2013 6:50 PM by Фильмы онлайн HD

Где-то я это уже видел… А если по теме то спасибо.