First thoughts on MSAjax (Atlas) Beta 1

I spent a little time this morning looking over documentation for the new MSAjax Beta 1 bits. Although it's great to see the product moving forward toward release, my first reaction is a bit of disappointment.

 As Scott describes, MSAjax has been split into a "Core" component, which defines the base client and server-side framework that will ship with RTM, and a "Value Add" component, which basically includes things that were in previous CTPs but didn't make it into the Core. There's a feature matrix in the CTP-to-beta migration whitepaper which describes what's in Core and what's in Value-Add. If were to summarize the contents in a single phrase, it would be this - server-side AJAX wins, client-side AJAX loses.

What do I mean by that? Most of the super-cool client-side script capabilities in the previous CTPs are in the Value-Add component, not the Core. The various UI glitz behaviors like drag drop, floating, hover, popups, and opacity - not in Core. Virtually all of the controls, extenders, and behaviors - not in Core. XML-Script, the toolable, declarative, XAML-for-Javascript goo - not in Core.

Don't get me wrong, there's still lots of client-side Javascript framework-y stuff in MSAjax beta 1. But the focus seems to be clearly on UpdatePanel and Extender controls. For people hoping to do much with MSAjax without using ASP.NET - well, there isn't much there there, as far as the Core is concerned. This is unfortunate - isn't that whiz-bangy UI stuff part of why people dig Ajax? While the UpdatePanel is a nice gateway drug into the world of AJAX, I've always thought that Microsoft over-emphasized it in the past. You won't be building Google Maps with UpdatePanels. You won't be build Gmail with UpdatePanels. To do the really slick stuff, you need more. Perhaps the Control Toolkit folks will be picking up more of the responsibility here.

The roadmap for how and when Value-Add becomes Core is still unclear to me. Similarly with the license - does Value-Add have a Go-Live license? Can we redistribute it? If we end of having to wait for Orcas to work with it in production, and worse if it requires the next version of the framework...well, that would be a major bummer.

 

 

 

 

 

  

6 Comments

  • Hi,

    I think I won't be too disappointed even if value-add never becomes core. I mean, I really like the idea of the ms ajax team supporting and improving the core (for example working on compatibility layers); and cool features like drag'n'drop, animations etc. being part of a project like the Ajax Control Toolkit, that is open to contributions from the community. Just my two cents :)

  • I agree with Garbin.. Just because they're not in the core doesn't mean those cool features don't exist any more. They're available to use and they work great. It's just a matter of which features MS will support...

  • That is the reason why I still belive that libraries like Ajax.NET (AjaxPro) or Jayrock are more interesting for web developers.

  • Alex,
    Available to use by who and how? That's one of the reasons for the licensing question. As an ISV, we were NOT able to use previous CTPs of Atlas for production use. My suspicion is that will continue to be the case for Value-Add, but I don't know at this point.

  • I don't knnow about you guys, but I'd rather get it in phases than wait until orcas.

  • Kevin:

    The value-add will be 100% go-Live forever. We plan to ship all the client-side code (the Microsoft AJAX Library pieces) under a derivative of the Microsoft Permissive License a very unrestrictive shared source license that let's you change, customize, package, redistribute, commercialize, etc (basically anything) our client side code.

    I think all the flexibility you need will be there -- the only key difference is that the core will have product support through our PSS channels, and value-add + toolkit is community supported (which is the standard for *all* existing ajax technology out there by any vendor both commercial and open source today).

    We are also actively investigating releasing the source code to the 'core' server side pieces under a reference license to help ISV's and developers leverage and customize the code at higher levels.

    Hope this brings some clarity and eases concerns. If you want more info, ping me directly at bgold@microsoft.com

    -Brian

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