TestDriven.NET by Jamie Cansdale

Hmmm, I didn't get renewed either, but I didn't have that in my notice.  It seems like if there were other issues then they would have simply let you know that separately, and before this time.  I have no clue what they're referring to by the way.

The only violation of conduct that I've heard is sharing the login information for the MVP private newsgroups with non MVPs. Other than that, I can't recall reading anything.

I've to say: I really don't know what they mean with code of conduct.

I was surprised to get renewed this april as I didn't participate that much in the community as I had done last year, but apparently that didn't make a difference. I think it depends on the lead you have: if s/he thinks you should be MVP because you are standing out in the community, you will get rewarded.

Hello Jamie, Perhaps you could ask your lead (no ex-lead) about that. Maybe you had inadvertently done something that an MVP wasn't expected to do.

Hmm, what is the MVP code of conduct?

The MVP thing has always seemed to me to be random and irrelevant. There are some good people in there, but for the most part, the title is lorded around and the people let it go to their heads. Posting a lot of almost helpful crap appears to be the main criteria for being an MVP. Be glad you aren't one of them. And get on with bettering your own future, rather than Microsoft's. The MVP program clearly benefits them more than it benefited you.

Imho the MVP award is definitely not what it used to be. With other words the status, the L33tnes that came with the MVP award, is gone. So who gives a crap about the code of conduct if there even is any.

Not that I have any say in the matter, but I'd give you a lifetime MVP award for TestDriven.Net.

MVP is a cool way to get some free ***, but as a title it's as meaningless as MCSE. Lot's of us who do far more interesting things which keep our corporate overlords buying MS stuff who don't get any acknowledgement.

I think the whining about the MVP title is a bit over the top. The MVP title is an award for doing community work. Sure there are people MVP who I think should never have gotten the title in the first place. But perhaps they did great community work. What people often forget is that the MVP title isn't a title given to people who are very GOOD at what they're doing, it's a title for people who do extensional community work and/or are community 'icons' or are recognizable in the community, thus not because they're member of the top 10 of the C# coders in the world for example.

So a person who runs a large usergroup is likely getting an MVP title even if that person perhaps can't program his way out of a wet paper bag.

Jamie Cansdale is not an MVP anymore - his title wasn't renewed this year. "So what" you may think. "Who

The only strict rule I know of is not to give out information under NDA. A search for Microsoft MVP code of conduct turns up the FAQ: (http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpfaqs). "Because the MVP Award is an award-based program with criteria based on past contributions, Microsoft has no expectations of MVPs beyond the expectations of courtesy, professionalism, code of conduct and adherence to the community rules that we ask of all Microsoft community members."

Microsoft Gives Jamie Cansdale the Finger

If I had to guess, I would say you lost your MVP status due to your Visual Studio add-in, TestDriven .NET, going from a freely available tool to a source of income. I do realize that the personal edition is free and I also realize that you have contributed a lot to the community. I'm just venturing a guess to why you lost your MVP status. Your Microsoft lead may have viewed this as a community betrayal. Yes, I know my comment won't please you and that's not fair, but I'm willing the bet that I'm probably right.

WTF? Jamie Cansdale Not An MVP?

i also dont have read an line of "MVP code of conduct concerns" As ex MVP i guess any Microsofty can influence that process ( in negative way). So if you have done/ said something which have not be as expected, could be reason enough to drop you. And nobody will tell you the truth. Politics!

It would be interesting to know all the criterea to beconme an MVP

What is really an MVP?

To be honest, I'm with Microsoft on this one. It seems to me that the four salient events were: Jamie releases TestDriven.NET free for everyone to use Jamie is made an MVP Jamie then makes TestDriven.NET non-free Jamie's MVP status is removed Personally I think it was very bad behavior, taking a free product and starting to charge for it. (Most other products that have developed along similar lines continue with the free base product and charge for 'Professional' or 'Enterprise' editions with extra features.) Starting to charge for a product the community supported and advocated is like a slap in the face for that community, and I can see why Microsoft don't want the MVP badge to be associated with that. It could be that they don't want to give visibility to a product that competes with a small portion of TFS, or it could be that (as Roy Osherove says) they don't like him introducing features to the Express editions, but I think that they just don't like the way he treated his community of users. Now there's no indication there ever was a free version, and although you can download the latest version you're expected to pay for it unless you're a trial user, a student or an open-source developer. If you object to the new licensing, there's no way to download the previous, free version that doesn't have the new licensing terms. Please note that I don't object to paying for software, and I don't think the asking price of $95 is too much. What I object to is the 'bait and switch' approach of getting a community advocating a free product and then robbing the community of that free product.

A: If the product Testdriven.NET not being free is the reason it's even more lame than I thought.

But let's wait what MS has to say on this, as I want to know what the MVP Code of conduct means and they haven't reported back yet.

Btw:

"What I object to is the 'bait and switch' approach of getting a community advocating a free product and then robbing the community of that free product."

This is really a silly remark. If a person releases a free tool T and later on makes that tool T commercial, no-one is robbing anyone as the person has no obligation to anyone to keep it free. None.

My guess is that the MVP code of conduct is not a set of written down guidelines or rules, it's merely a personal interpretation of how some individual MS employees (with a say in that person's award) EXPECT an MVP to behave or not to behave. Very subjective indeed.

Support for Jamie on the "bait & switch" comment. This is a really silly and emotional attack that is totally unwarranted. Even it is was the intention - the free product produced value while it was available, and you could still use the old ones. And what is wrong with developing it and giving it for free while it is a low-to-mid value tool and then charging for it when it is more mature and high-value? Who else has an inovative tool like Test-Driven anyway? Shades of it in places, but nothing that puts it all together like that. Thanks for the hard work Jamie!

It seems there are some strange happenings going on in MVP Land. I found out about this through a post

I used to use Test-Driven until I came across Test Runner. Check it out at: http://www.mailframe.net/Products/TestRunner/default.aspx it has the same features and more. Test Runner is not free but for the price it is a better value.

Jamie, I just want you to know that many of us don't share the sentiments of A. There's no expectation that a free product will be free forever. To expect this is plain silly. If somone complains that your charging for it, how much do you wanna bet they depend on your app to make money for themselves?

I think they meant exactly "this kind of" conduct. As far as I know MS presents MVP award for things you did in last one year and not for the things you will be doing for next 1 year. So there is no reason for them to put a conduct demand in your welcome pack. The next time when they get your nomination, they will look back at your conduct and community crdits for last 1 year and decide whether to go or not to go for a renewal. And dont just try to get award every year just because you need it. I am sure there will be so many factors to decide the award. conduct in forums, NDA violations, support for piracy etc. Recently one MVP award was taken back from a famous msn messenger plugin author on the similiar reasons. If you are community guy, your community loves you more than Microsoft! that should be more than an award.

Recently there were some news about Microsoft MVP program. Some known names such as James Cansdale ,

I don't know James Cansdale personally, but I do find this MVP situation very interesting. No, that's

Per Scott Allen's research: "Because the MVP Award is an award-based program with criteria based on past contributions, Microsoft has no expectations of MVPs beyond the expectations of courtesy, professionalism, code of conduct and adherence to the community rules that we ask of all Microsoft community members." Wow. Not only does that make no case for Jamie's dismissal, but it makes 'em look even worse for renewing certain people who break just about every one of those rules.

Jamie Cansdale , creator of Test-Driven .NET , probably the most widely-used and influential plug-in

A couple of days ago, the community learned that Jamie Cansdale, creator of Testdriven.NET wasn't re-nominated

Dude, this is so wrong on so many levels and I'm sure this isn't the last we hear about this. I for one do not agree with MS on this and think it's a travesty.

There have been a few MVP efforts over the years that I find silly. Various petitions about VB6, mass

I'm a bit on "A"'s side on this one. Maybe he was a bit harsh, but still: 1. Jaimie went against a Microsoft licence (providing an addin for the express version of VS) 2. Test Driven is not a free (community) tool anymore. This goes against what I see the MVP award being and it still is a Microsoft award to give. If they don't agree with what he has done, why would they give him THEIR award? He was awarded when he played by the rules, now... I dunno, this sounds like everyone is rooting for the "underdog" just because - without thinking of the facts.

@M: I don't agree that we're not thinking about the facts.

Fact: Jaimie still offers the free version of his tool (well, he had to temporarily pull it due to high bandwidth, but as far as I know it's still offered).

Fact: There's nothing in MVP land that says you're not allowed to sell products and make a living. The MVP award is for contributions to the community, whether that's a book, a blog, or a free or commercial tool.

Fact: While the express products lack the extensibilty OOTB to support add-ins, I have yet to find any license agreement or otherwise that says writing them is verbotten.

For a community driven initiative like the MVP program, it should support community driven initiatives like TestDriven.NET.

One more thing on the subject (as I'm posting stuff here there and everywhere about this). Mark Miller (whom I greatly respect) recently was awarded the C# MVP. Where's Marks free contributions to the community? He's a bang hot developer and DevExpress pumps out great stuff. He's done various presentations and whatnot at conferences. So should he get the award while Jaimie doesn't? I think they both deserve it, but it's not a perfect world.

It's Microsoft's program... why is everyone complaining about the fairness of it?? Does MVP status get you a bigger raise? Does it mean your any smarter than the 10 other guys down in the trenches who don't have time to contribute to the community all year long? No. It's an award given out by Microsoft. And while the criteria are slightly fuzzy, it's THEIR award, and they can do whatever they want with it. Whether you have it or not, if you have a good product, what's the difference? If you know you're a contributor to the community, who cares if you are awarded an MVP? Do you need an MVP to validate your credentials as a developer? As a human being? What's done is done. Move on. Everyone.

Next year: Spend more unpaid time preaching the Microsoft religion... :-P

Jamie Cansdale, author of TestDriven.NET and ex-Microsoft MVP has an interesting thread going on at his

Jamie, you have my sympathies as you know. You were treated badly, to your surprise but not so surprising to many of us. There are lots of folks who provide free and non-free software that runs on Windows and works with Microsoft products. We foster communities, help people, etc. but we aren't part of the "Microsoft community." So lets be our own community. BTW, now that you're out of it... puhleaze publish the API you used to get TD.Net to run under C# Express!!! Just as an item of purely theoretical interest, of course. ;-) Charlie

Hi Jamie.Still not enough info regarding this case but I requested this from Microsoft.

Regarding this case so this is not so simple. I think this is more mistake of some specific employees in Microsoft and you should ask MVP community for support and Microsoft for explanation (i already did) because it seems like some from Microsoft is persecuting you and this is against Microsoft internal Msvalues inside. Even this could be considered as discimination based on your opinions that some specific person in MS doesn't like and Microsoft could be prosecuted for this.

When you would find any cases when other MVPs were awarded with similar participation as you and you don't then this is a case for a layer as discrimination when the email you got could be considered as a VERY important prove (because this complaint could not be send by anybody, but only by you because you've got this email as ex-MVP and you were treated this unfair way). So by law you have all chances to prosecute Microsoft and ask for excuse or even better ask for changing internal MVP award system and to fire those MS employees who are behind such discrimination. I believe Microsoft is fair company but some employees are hinding behind this giant but the law and anti-discrimination principles are on your side. Any company can't run any competitions or awards or anything that would be discriminant, especially in US not. If you reside in US then try to contact your lawyer.

This would even help Microsoft to fire out bad employees who can behave according to MSValues and should read them every day.