What's missing in today's hottest languages?

My blog has moved.
You can view this post at the following address:
http://www.osherove.com/blog/2003/7/5/whats-missing-in-todays-hottest-languages.html
Published Saturday, July 05, 2003 7:29 AM by RoyOsherove
Filed under:

Comments

Friday, July 04, 2003 9:40 PM by Yosi Taguri

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

can't agree on some of the stuff:
c# case insensitivity - it's fine as it is, it comes from c and c++ , if you have only one way to write a variable name ,you can enfoce coding conventions while compiling.
Automatic creation of "()" braces - that's beacuse you are coming from vb ;) - it makes no sense to write methods calls without braces it looks ugly.
With - it an ugly construct , I hate it it doesn't look readable. and besides if your code calls many properities at the same time maybe you need to design your classes again.

Friday, July 04, 2003 9:51 PM by Jan Tielens

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

Check out my post (linked to yours): http://weblogs.asp.net/jan/posts/9727.aspx

Greetz
Jan
Saturday, July 05, 2003 12:19 AM by Roy Osherove

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

Yosi:
- Insensitivity: Why should I be able to write basically the same variable name with only case differences? That's just giving us enough rope to hang ourselvss with.. and you *know* that its a common practice in a lot of places, although its not a good one.. Hell, even I used it at times, because its more convenient than readable..

braces - Not saying that no braces is good, just saying that saving me the trouble to write them wil save me about 20% of coding time... hows that for a productivity increase?

With - Ugly? now *that's* because you came from a non-VB background ;) its one of the most useful, time saving, readable, productivity enhancing code constructs I've met, and I can't think of how I could totally get rid of the need for it no matter how good I design my copmonents. sometimes you just *have* code that calls or sets multiple properties on a componenet in one method.
Saturday, July 05, 2003 12:51 AM by dave

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

I think case sensitivity is a huge strength! It makes your code much cleaner, and naming conventions much cleaner.

For example, in C#
you can declare

MyClass myClass = new MyClass();

while in VB you would have to do something like
Dim [myClass] as New MyClass()

I consider it to be a strength, much more than a weakness.
Saturday, July 05, 2003 2:56 AM by Roy Osherove

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

dave: that's exactly the kind of code that I believe should be avoided. It's much more confusing to readf by a 3rd party, and although easy to create and looks cleaner- but is harder to maintain.
Saturday, July 05, 2003 3:29 AM by TrackBack

# Jan Tielens' Bloggings

Jan Tielens' Bloggings
Saturday, July 05, 2003 3:29 AM by TrackBack

# ISerializable

ISerializable
Saturday, July 05, 2003 4:14 AM by Jeff Julian

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

If all those things were in both languages, why would you need to. I think they are great the way they are and PLEASE LEAVE THE CASE-SENSITIVITY in C#.
Saturday, July 05, 2003 4:58 AM by Sam Gentile

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

From Jan's topic:
#
re: What's missing in VB.NET and C#?
Sam Gentile
Posted @ 7/5/2003 11:55 AM
Let me the first of hopefully many to correct you both in that C# has Edit and Continue in VS.NET 2003 (which has been out for some months).
#
re: What's missing in VB.NET and C#?
Sam Gentile
Posted @ 7/5/2003 11:56 AM
And Visual Assist.NET (http://www.wholetomato.com) adds #1, #3, #4 among many other things. I find it a must have.
Saturday, July 05, 2003 4:59 AM by Sam Gentile

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

That was #1, 3, and 4 on "his" list...
Saturday, July 05, 2003 5:48 AM by Roy Osherove

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

I had vs 2003 installed, but the only "edit & continue " like feature was that once you edited, you couldn't continue...
Saturday, July 05, 2003 6:20 AM by Sam Gentile

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

You're telling me that "Tools-> Options-> Edit and Continue-> Changes in VB and C# Code-> Allow me to Edit C# Files While Editing" does not work for you?
Saturday, July 05, 2003 6:30 AM by Roy Osherove

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

Doesn;t that feature only change the source file but make the program continue as if you hadn't changed anything?
I'm talking edit & continue like in Vb6 - where changing something at run time actually changed run-time behaviour - I don;t think they have that. I could be wrong but i'm 99% sure... (I dont have it installed anymore so I can't check it out)
Saturday, July 05, 2003 9:53 AM by SBC

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

hmm... getting rid of case insensitivity in C# may make a lot of sensitive C# programmers insensitive...
sorry had to put that one in 8-)
Saturday, July 05, 2003 12:47 PM by Tim Marman

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

What does case insensitivity buy you other than less maintainable code? :)
Saturday, July 05, 2003 5:56 PM by Chad Osgood

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

Not to be pedantic, but it's wortwhile to point out that many of your wishes for both VB.NET and C# are not for the languages themselves, but for the IDE that facilitates their use. Keep in mind that there are many people who don't use VS.NET. I myself didn't use VS.NET for quite some time, and if the cross-platform story of .NET becomes longer this will only increase.

If you really want the autocreation of the surrounding parens of a method call for C# in VS.NET, you should try QuickCode.NET.

Saturday, July 05, 2003 8:40 PM by Roy Osherove

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

Tim: I would think just the opposite - insensitivity "blocks" the same variable name from appearing twice in the same scope with different casing. Allowing *that* could lead to harder to maintain code...

Chad: I agree. It should have said "Missing IDE enhancements for language 'X'"
As for QuickCode - It's pretty cool, I just wanted to air out the fact that I shhouldn't need to use such a tool to get that sort of functionality from the world's most advanced IDE to date..
Sunday, July 06, 2003 1:05 PM by Aaron Vance

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

You can replicate the "With" functionality in C# with the "using" statement.

using(obj) {
// use obj to do stuff here
}

As long as it supports the IDisposable interface, the instance of obj will be disposed of at the end of the using scope.
Sunday, July 06, 2003 8:33 PM by Roy Osherove

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

Aaron: 'using' not does allow me to write something like this:
using(thins)
{
.MyProperty= "something";
}
Monday, July 07, 2003 9:34 PM by Oisin Grehan

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

Roy, if there ever was a stereotypical VB programmer to be singled out as an example, it would be you. Absolutely no understanding of why things aren't all like VB. This post was enough to put me off reading your blog for good. Unsubscribed.



Monday, July 07, 2003 9:38 PM by Roy Osherove

# re: What's missing in today's hottest languages?

Oisin: Ouch. Sorry you feel that way.I have lots to say about that , so I'll write a post about it.