ISerializable - Roy Osherove's Blog

Wim: Not that we should, but if you mention that, it's important to remember that the kidnapping was accompanied by a non stopping firing of rockets into the state of Israel, without provocation, just after another soldier was kidnapped on the other side of Israel (which has also not yet been recovered).

Israel was literally under attack. Those rockets have killed people from north all the way to the center of Israel.

Would you have reacted differently? I'm sure you can't say until this happens to you.

Ah wait- maybe you'll say "I wouldn't have bombed innocent people's buildings"

which I'd answer: What if the rockets were being fired from within housed buildings, mosques and hospitals?

Easy to judge "from the outside looking in", as you say.

Roy.

Thin ice is when you fire rockets from heavily populated areas on innocent civilians, kidnap soldiers without provocation and show to the world community "hey, we're being attacked!".

Thin ice is getting women and children to bomb themselves for 25,000$ of money you got from the U.N for food, water and electricity.

On the technological side, Wim will have to see to it that his company not use anything built by Israelis (or else they are making money off of him, aren't they?) - which is quite impossible.

There's quite a distance between not agreeing with tactics of remote places of which you aren't part of the conflict, and shutting down business with people in those places.

I have no problem with Wim making that decision - but he shoudl have no problem of people knowing about it - free world, right?

One thing that came up: Belgium itself can teach a thing or two about abuse:

Its rule on the Kongo was one of the bloodiest ever.

http://www.wehaitians.com/belgium%20confronts%20its%20heart%20of%20darkness.html

Frans: I hope you also read the rest of my comments. The "war" began with the kidnappings and *non stop rockets being fired at Israel's north and center.

The more the rockets continues the more Israel tried to go in deeper and destroy the rocket bases. Those were held inside heavily populated areas. it's a tough situation and it's hard not to kill innocents in that way.

That's why Israel sent lots of ground troops to scan the villages of the sources of fire closer to the fence - so that military planes don't need to flatten those villages, but only get those who fire the rockets.

That's why when we did bomb - we dropped warning flyers that its going to happen, letting people flee from the area (can you think of any other country that would take such measures?)

When people were in trouble there Israel did open gateways from outside aid, food supplies and medicals help via airways.

It's impossible to do a humane war0 but as far as it is possible - Israel attempted to do just that.

When you say "unpolluted" news agencies, who give you a better big picture, how well do you think that big picture is? Do you think that here in Israel we don't get CNN, BBC, Sky, Fox and all the other big networks? That we don't get it?

If anything, everytime we see Israel in the news there we tell ourselves "Still, they don't get it".

I don't think you will until it happens to you. Your reaction would be different than your words. Reality is harsh and sometime to stop drastic people you do need drastic measures like roadblocks, and military attacks. there's no way about it.

Israel knows how make piece with its enemies - provided they want to. That's why we have peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan. (Egypt is calling for Palestinians to release gilad shalit - kidnapped Israeli solder not yet released by the Palestinians)

Israel tried to make peace with Palestinians:

We gave them 90% of the land they asked form in the last attempt at peace and they wouldn't hear of it - instead we got the second intifada. We remove settlements and the fighting continues.

Everybody knows we are on the road to a separate Palestinian authority/state - but no one is acting like they want this to happen on their side.

That's why the right is winning elections - the left keeps failing to tell people "hey - let's give it one more go". And women and children keep dying. People are tired of trying - but there is still the willingness to talk.

And then, suddenly, you have soldiers kidnapped and rockets fired out of the blue - from *Lebanon* - which we have *left 6 years go* in a one sided move everyone over there called crowdedness and a win for Lebanon.

In those 6 years hizbollah have amassed massive amounts of weapons, built bomb shelters near the border and prepared for all out war. They have over 10,000 rockets they got from places like Iran and Russia. (They boasted about it at the last public meeting with Nasralla).

Then they attacked. over 300 rockets *a day* in the last week of the way. Can you imagine that?

How would your country react if you had missiles falling on houses in your nationhood?

It's not just "two soldiers" although that's enough for us to try and get them back - they mean a lot to us. It's the war that surrounded the kidnappings that helped fuel the attacks.

Do I feel sorry for the people who dies - yes. Do I think the attacks were justified? yes.

Most of the buildings were empty because of the flyers we dropped - but hizbollah has lots of infrastructure ruined that way - war is hell and mistakes do get made and so innocents do die - and that's a shame - but show me any country that would have done otherwise - and I'll show you a country that is about to be extinct in the next war.

Roy.

DaveB:

It was during Sharon's rule that one of the most painful things Israel have done was started: start evacuating the settlements

Israel was torn up and divided on this issue, ands still, two years later - it continues.

That's one big stride Israel has done for peace from the man that you had describe.

Yes - to say that he didn't seek peace when we elected him is just wrong.

Ilan has a nice post with his view on the subject:

http://ilanas.blogspot.com/2006/09/hypocrites.html

:

"China is one of the most oppressive countries against its own people - would you stop making business with all Chinese companies, stop buying anything Made in China, because of that?

The American use of Guantánamo Bay detainment camp has been controversial to say the least - would you stop making business with all American companies because of that?

Saudi Arabia's government states that all citizen must be Muslim. The religious minorities are not allowed to have their churches or temples or pray in public. There are also very harsh laws oppressing women. I suggest you'd stop buying all petroleum-based products...

"

even if you believe israel is just as bad, you're a hypocrite is you still do business with any of the other countries, aren't you?

read the rest on the link.

Roy.

DaveB: I'm not going to start a full on political debates about every facet of israel's actions - right or wrong as you think israel is, it is a hypocricy to "breaK' relations with israeli companies and keep relations to other countries which seem to be drawing just as much heat (like my previous comment).

Dandy - I would but the company name was not published in the original article, so I don't know it's name.

As for propoganda, the minute U2U decided to make a business decistion in high tech based on a policial issue, I think they made it fair game. Especially, since they were contacted before going public on that newspaper and chose to not respond.