Behave# enables Behavior Driven Testing, raises some interesting questions

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Published Saturday, August 4, 2007 7:51 AM by RoyOsherove


Sunday, August 5, 2007 4:06 AM by Morgan

# re: Behave# enables Behavior Driven Testing, raises some interesting questions

First, BDD should not be used instead of TDD. As Dan North explained it, with BDD you specify the behaviour looking at the system from the ouside.

When you then implement the stuff and get "deeper" into the code you will use your TDD skills as usual.

BDD should be used to connect developers and business people, imho this is where the main benefit of BDD is,

you dont need a framework for that but we develeopers can't help it, when things are organised we think "hey, I can implement this in code" :) The BDD frameworks only add another benefit, an executable spec.

If both "camps" can speak in terms of Given/When/Then with each other about the features to implement they will connect better.

And finally, I don't really get why it should be unreadable in VB.NET?

The story would look something like:

       Story("Transfer to cash account"). _

           AsA("Bank card holder"). _

           IWant("to transfer money from my savings account"). _

           SoThat("I can get cash easily from an ATM")

Sunday, August 5, 2007 9:58 PM by Jimmy Bogard

# re: Behave# enables Behavior Driven Testing, raises some interesting questions

That is a lot of great feedback!  Joe and I have had a few conversations about many of the points you've brought up.  Behave# is still in its infancy, so questions like these will definitely help in shaping its role and direction.  We're going to release a vision statement soon that should hopefully clarify the purpose and scope of Behave#.  Thanks again for the feedback!

Monday, August 6, 2007 5:46 AM by Mark Seemann

# re: Behave# enables Behavior Driven Testing, raises some interesting questions

Morgan's comment almost answers the question on when to use BDD versus TDD: To me, BDD is about capturing use cases/stories in an automatable, repeatable fashion.

If you look at a typical componentized ('layered') application architecture, it only makes sense to apply BDD to components that are very close to the application perimeter: UI Controllers/Façades/etc. Such components typically exist for the one purpose of wiring up an external interface (UI/Service Interface) to the rest of the application, so they most closely resemble the business needs.

One of the tricky parts of software development (particularly OOD) is decomposing all the different concerns of an application into autonomous units. While doing that, we also create a level of abstraction (data access components, interfaces, logging strategies, what have you) that removes most of the code quite far from the business requirements.

As such, unit testing is the only sort of test that makes sense at that level, since you can't map a business requirement entirely to any single component. This means that in essense, a behavioral test is a sort of integration test.

In agile projects, this approach is still valuable, since we should never write code for which there is no business requirement. You could actually take this further and enable code coverage on your behavioral tests: If you have code that's not covered, you either need to write a test, or that code should not be there. That may sound familiar to anyone used to TDD, but the difference is that 'normal' unit tests don't count: Only behavioral tests count towards 'requirments coverage'.

That's probably taking things a bit too far, but it's an intriguing idea :)

Monday, August 6, 2007 2:38 PM by Gil Zilberfeld

# re: Behave# enables Behavior Driven Testing, raises some interesting questions

While I agree with the distinction that was discussed above, there is something to be said regarding abstraction in the developer realm.

BDD allows you to specify how the system should behave. It's use is customer facing. But wouldn't you want the developer to also use this as an abstraction? Fluent interface is already in use in NUnit, making the tests more readable. Why not take the next step (I know it looks like sci-fi today) and abstract the component (or service provider) with similar taxonomy?

If we leave APIs out of the discussion, we are talking about two languages (DevSpeak and CustomerSpeak) that may someday, with the right tools converge.