What build tool do you use? And TFS Vs. Open Source Round 3

re: What build tool do you use? And TFS Vs. Open Source Round 3

Cory Foy — Wed, 02 May 2007 18:21:06 GMT

Gunnlaugur,

It shouldn't take that long. Even on mine, which is running on a VPC with maybe 512 of RAM, it took under 10 seconds.

I'd put a sniffer on to see where the bottleneck is coming from. Maybe grab some Perfmon data from your server - maybe you are running into hotspots on your SAN or something similar.

Feel free to contact me offline at foyc at cornet design dot com and I'll be happy to work with you to see if we can track down the slowness.

Although I agree with your SVN comments - I really enjoyed working with it on the projects we used it for. I especially enjoyed how easy it was to add pre and post hooks to the check-in process.

re: What build tool do you use? And TFS Vs. Open Source Round 3

Adi — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:36:04 GMT

Pingback from http://dotmad.blogspot.com/2007/04/tfs-vs-oss-round-432023548.html

re: What build tool do you use? And TFS Vs. Open Source Round 3

Adi — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:33:02 GMT

Pingback from <a href="http://dotmad.blogspot.com/2007/04/tfs-vs-oss-round-432023548.html">http://dotmad.blogspot.com/2007/04/tfs-vs-oss-round-432023548.html</a>

re: What build tool do you use? And TFS Vs. Open Source Round 3

Gunnlaugur Thor Briem — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:26:15 GMT

Wait, wait ... you find ... VSS' usability to be better than that of Subversion?

Do you know of any other people with this affliction?

Which Subversion *client* did you try? Telepathy 0.6a?

In any case you lost me with that. Your ideas of usability must be on a different planet. Maybe that's lucky for you; ours is overpopulated.

Over here, Subversion and Trac were *dead easy* to set up and integrate, including scheduled backups (took literally minutes) and migration with history from VSS (took a bit longer, but have you tried the same from VSS to TFS?). And they performed just fine --- on a VMware virtual machine with SAN disks.

We have TFS on serious hardware, serving no more than 40-50 users with a repository of 4,7 GB. My Visual Studio takes 38 seconds --- blocking the entire UI --- to rename a file. That's even at night when I'm alone in the office. 38 seconds means kiss your flow goodbye.

re: What build tool do you use? And TFS Vs. Open Source Round 3

Michael Dorfman — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:04:36 GMT

I assume you've already seen Sam Gentile's comments on this thread:(http://codebetter.com/blogs/sam.gentile/archive/2007/04/29/getting-annoyed-at-agile-correctness.aspx)

Personally, I think that framing it as "TFS vs OSS" misses the point-- the real question is, as others have pointed out, "One integrated toolset" vs "roll-your-own integration with independent tools." I'm interested in this particular case, because I have so far been pursuing the "roll your own" path while keeping an eye on the "one integrated system" path as a future goal.

At the moment, we're using Vault + FogBugz + FinalBuilder + mbUnit + TypeMock.NET + TestDriven.NET + CruiseControl.Net as a toolset, and we've got the basic integrations between them.

My question is: what additional value would I get out of the TFS over and above what I have today?

I'm certainly willing to live with some "1.0" pain, if the reward is there. So: what are the "killer app" integrations to knock me off the fence?

re: What build tool do you use? And TFS Vs. Open Source Round 3

The Other Steve — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 03:10:36 GMT

I think TFS is still immature. We knew it would be when it was first released. It's a 1.0 product release. The only reason it's even being somewhat considered by enterprises is because of bundling in combination with MSDN, it works out to be cheaper per desktop install than most of the big competition. (MKS, Merant, Rational, Borland, etc.)

The problem is, it's not a leap forward over competition. It's dragging behind in many ways.

What would make it compelling is if it did something dramatically different or better. Not just integration. The other commercial products are also nicely integrated, even nicer in some cases. I'm talking working better with disconnected developers, maintaining synchronized repositories in multiple physical locations, etc. These are the problems that everybody else is working on solving. Microsoft is still just working on making their product function in the simplest manner.

This is what makes the comparison to Open Source possible. Because OSS solutions at their heart, only do the barest minimum, but they generally do it well, even if it's not documented. Microsoft has to innovate in this space to gain respect.

Just my opinion.

Low Country Software Ramblings » Around the Net #31

Low Country Software Ramblings » Around the Net #31 — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 02:01:42 GMT

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