Wes' Puzzling Blog

I don't own one, but they are certainly hot sellers right now. The USAToday has had at least one article about how hard they are to get and the fact that there is little if any negotiation involved. These thinks are hot.

it's a cool choice (and in fact i've been looking at it). but since it may be more expensive than even a camry, u gotta make sure u'll drive it for more than a few yrs so that u actually save the money on gas... btw, it gotta be silver, IMO...

With all that tech, you'd think they could make a better looking car...

I'll wait for a BMW hybrid or Benz hybrid ;-)

This is sorta apples to oranges...

My wife has been driving our civic hybrid for the last 37k miles. It has averaged around 44 mpg with a bicycle rack on top. It is a basic Honda Civic with cooler than usual instrumentation [battery gauge, digital MPG readout, etc]. It gets the best mileage in the city driving like your grandmother -- unless she drives like my grandmother. Without the rack, it averages 48 mpg city/highway.

If we didn't live in the central plains (read: no mountains), I don't think I would want to own it as it really revs to get up anything with a significant grade. With two bikes on top, the MPG drops to mid-20s on the highway.

I think it is both a positive and a negative that it looks like a regular Civic. Its a good car and if you live in the right area -- topographically speaking -- then you will get some pretty dang good mileage.

I know several people who own a Prius and each of them is very enthousiastically satisfied, to the point of being fanatics like Mac users. That's a good sign...

Don't buy a Prius to save money. (If you do the math, it simply doesn't work out.) Do it because you think it's a cool car. That's why I got mine.

Raymond: Yes I agree. I'm not buying the car because it will save me money, the gas mileage is just bonus. If I did by it, it would be because I think it is cool.

Eric: I actually like the way the Prius looks ;)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Keep it comming!

Nice car, and Toyota is really reliable. Everyone I know is very happy with every Toyota model they have ever purchased, including my parents. I think it looks pretty sweet too!

The savings are bogus, you pay a premium for the Prius that counteracts the value of improved MPG.

Prius = Dumb Idea

Diesel = Good Idea

I'm a big fan of keeping things simple. Compared to a normal car, the Prius adds a couple electric motors, a more complex gear box, a battery pack, a motor controller, and the control logic to drive it all. All this complexity and expense to get gas mileage that's only marginally better than a good diesel sedan (which is a refinement of a 100 year old design that powers most of the industrial world...).

It's hard for me to justify that over even a moderately powered Gas-engine sedan.

I own one. It is an excellent car. All the bells and whistles, smart entry, HID lights, ABS, stability control. Unless you want nav system, don't take JBL audio. It is cheaper to upgrade later (I did it partially myself). Don't expect sporty behavior, just enjoy driving.

Mileage is *significantly* better than diesel. Show me please diesel sedan which makes 48mpg. By buying Prius you won't be saving gas or money. You will be saving environment and supporting great company that boldly makes hybrid cars and even hybrid SUVs.

I traded in one year old Infinity FX45 for the Prius and never regretted it.

BTW, diesel Golf produces 50% more CO2 than Prius. VW may have decent mileage, but Prius produces much less emissions.

As for BMW, I owned '98 M3. Good car and in fact, had decent mileage (I was averaging 23 mpg with 5sp manual). However, I don't want sport car anymore.

I will definately buy one. I don't have alot of money these times, but well. when my current car will die (probably not before two or three years), i'll go for the prius.

It's got so many good things you can't find in any other car. And i really like the look.

The only bad point i see is, there is only ONE option available. At least in Europe. Oh, and i didn't see a version with manual gear box. (In europe, 99% of us drive manual gear cars)

"Mileage is *significantly* better than diesel. Show me please diesel sedan which makes 48mpg."

I'll admit that Hybrids have better economy than Diesel, but better enough to justify the added complexity and cost? Not to me, at least. For that matter, I'd take a reasonably powered gas sedan over a hybrid. The hybrid just doesn't make economic sense.

"By buying Prius you won't be saving gas or money."

So why take on the risk and additional cost?

"You will be saving environment and supporting great company that boldly makes hybrid cars and even hybrid SUVs. "

If you're justifying a Prius because it supports a 'good cause', consider this:

A Camry is $2K less expensive than a Prius before you consider that Camry's are discounted more heavily than Priui (?). This makes the 'good cause' choice a choice between driving a Camry and making $2K worth of contributions to the charities of your choice or driving a Prius and making a $2K contribution to a $200Bln multinational company. (A company that's entirely profit driven, as it should be.)

"I traded in one year old Infinity FX45..."

I'm not sure why you posted this; It doesn't seem relevant.

However, assuming it is relevant, I find it pretty incredible that a year ago you were tooling around in a 315hp ***15mpg*** SUV and now you're preaching about the relative merits of hybrids versus diesels. Not to mention how costly it is to walk away from year old $50K cars. Even if you're completely right, my cynical take is that you're just jumping on the bandwagon...

When the Prius first came to market I was duly intrigued. I informed myself and became well versed in the technology behind the car. The car represents an engineering milestone to be certain, but it is not a car that I would recommend to anyone unless you must have the latest and newest thing in your garage. Simply put, the Prius offers real world mileage numbers that are not significantly better than deisel cars of similar size. The EPA posted numbers are combined 58.5 MPG but in reality this is not the case- try 42.6 (see- http://www.baileycar.com/priusAW.html) Any TDI Jetta can best this! Yes it produces less green house gas emissions than most other cars however it will also orphan a bettery pack at year 8-? of its life which will be a burden on our ecosystem at that time in an as yet unkown way (recycleable? landfill?)
The Prius is an expensive car that will get even more expensive very soon as Toyota, having completed a brilliant marketing phase, will be looking to stop subsidizing this car and pass the full cost on to an adoring public.
I have a Paramedic freind who has tended to a couple of car accidents involving Prius cars. There is a growing aprehension when dealing with crashed up Priuses because of the very high voltages involved (300V). They have been warned to deal with this car as though it were a live current hazard. This means that occupants must wait until proper grounding measures are taken beforereceiving medical assistance.
I like the styling and layout of the car. Hatchback designs are extremely practical. Unfortunately the car drives like a toaster on wheels. Terrible. My first test drive I was focused on the digital display and the lack of any sound when the car came to a stop. My second drive I took it through a twisty section of town and was left wondering how I could live with such boring heavy ride long term? I chose not too. Instead I have decided to start cycling to work again after many years of driving and I have purchased a used 2002 Jetta TDI wagon for family outings and shopping trips. I have even taken to using a 20% mix of french fry oil (biodeisel) that I get free from my local burger joint (neice works there) Amazing!

Good luck.

Toyota pays their dealers $200 for used batteries so they can be properly recycled. However, according to the Prius FAQ on their site, lab tests they've done on the battery show no reason why it can't last for the life of the car. A computer chip controls the charge drawn from and to the battery so that it's never more than 80% full, which greatly extends battery life.

If you want some good real world data about owning hybrid vehicles, check out Hybrid Experience: <http://www.hybridexperience.ca/index.html>. They have information from Canadian taxi fleets, couriers, etc. that have been using hybrids since 2001. There are definitely other financial benefits besides saving money on gas, such as the longer life you get from the brakes since the Prius diverts 30% of the energy from braking back to the battery. A cab company owner who bought a 2001 Prius reported the first set of brakes lasted 90,000 miles! His other cars need new brakes in a third of that distance, so he saved a thousand bucks or more there.

The gasoline engine also gets much less wear-and-tear since it doesn't have to accelerate the car from stops. The hybrid on the front page of that site is pushing 400,000 miles and still running (looks pretty good too). I seriously think we in ten years we could see hybrids that have accumulated well over 500,000 miles.

And even if you don't keep it that long, the popularity and longevity of hybrids will ensure a higher resale value.

There were some problems reported with Toyota prius that car engine just turns off itself and car stals on freeway.

Toyota officials are investigating that. You might wanna check on that first before buying it

Don't forget to investigate the tax deduction available -- only on new vehicles, BTW, not used. There might be state and local incentives, depending on where you are.

Did you ever get one? I found an old post of yours while searching for Prius info.

We bought a Prius for our airporat car replacing our Volvo 740 GLE with 365,000 miles (given to my daughter) If you are just going to buy another car, why not get one that gets (my limited experience) 49 to 52 mpg? The back seat folds down, and you can get a lot of stuff in the Prius which you can't (length wise) in a Honda or Ford high mpg vehicle. It isn't the money (Our other cars are Maseratti Quatroporte (14 mpg), 612 (10 mpg) 500cls 22 mpg), but we drive the Prius more than the others. It is great to get 50 mpg! and it works great as an airport and commuter car! The seats, however, are the worst in existence. Toyota has no answer for that. Road handling is VERY poor on curves Also, look for CalCars new battery alternatives which gets you up to 100mpg. Cost 12 K, but hat is so cool, and saves on emissions. Look for Toyota to combine elctric plug in features on future cars along with better batteries. (I hope). All of our other cars, we drive like 4,000 miles per year. The Prius in two months has 2,500 miles already.

Do u think Prius is worth buying

I bought one in July 2006. I'm so happy with the Prius. I'm averaging 53 mpg. Light years ahead of the mpg I was getting from my Ford Explorer, which I kept for weekend trips to Home Depot.

Everyone should focus on the facts not spreading FUD. The reality is I have owed one for 18 months and regularly get over 50MPG and often up to 54MPG. This car is a PZEV, compare that to a poluting pig of a diesel. Prius 3.4 tons/year of greenhouse gases vs. Volks TDI 5.6 tons. Prius 9.5 emissions score vs. TDI 1 (10 is best). Finally, no the Prius is no Bentley when it comes to handling and noise but it is far better than most. It is comfortable but not luxurius, it is quiet but not blissfully silent and the suspension is certainly stiff. Given all this I happily drive it back and forth between southwestern CT and Boston and upstate NY constantly and it is comfortable enough for me. Good enough that I just bought a second so that my wife and I will both have one. Buy it to save gas, buy it to save the environment, buy it to be hip, buy it to stick it to the OPEC dirt bags!

Don't be fooled by the salesmen or weak-kneed buyers! You can haggle on a Prius' price. You won't get too far below list price, but then again many dealers are starting at $5K over list and working down. I have bought 2 Priuses in the last 18 months and paid hundreds below list price for both. Toyota salesmen are high pressure sellers and they like to tag team and double team you but if you can outlast them you get a good price. Get a good price on the car and then start working on an above average price for your trade-in and combined you can end up with a great car at at good price. Just know your facts and hang tough!

To the folks creating FUD about the electrical dangers of a hybrid like the Prius... this is straight from the Prius manual ... "The electrolyte is absorbed into the battery cell plates and will not leak even in a collision". When the Prius is in a bad accident the battery is disconnected/shut off from the cables. "The HV battery pack relays will automatically open to stop electricity flow in a collision sufficient to activate the front SRS airbags" Toyota was quite thorough about safety including for the rescuers.

I've owned a 2005 Prius for two years. Doing partly country, partly town, partly freeway driving (about equal measures of each, mostly at 5,000 ft altitude), I average about 55mpg in warm weather, about 48 in cold (more friction, loss of energy to heater & lights, etc., I guess). Figuring gas at $3 per gallon, I figure I save at least $600 for each 10,000 miles I drive (I have 46,000 on it now), compared to a 25mpg car. So the financial payout is definitely there in my case, several times over by the time it dies. Car is very reliable (zero problems), performance adequate, very good in snow & ice, great cargo capacity, very comfortable on long trips. And if you want to leave some of our resources (including our air) for our children and grandchildren, you'll feel good about driving this car. If you need a muscle car for your ego or a sports car for your fun or an SUV for your soccer team (or your fears of losing a head-on), skip the Prius. Just about everybody else should consider driving one of these.

Top on my list. Toyota keep getting better every year not just with their hybrid propulsions, but also their renown for frugal and reliable ICE-based VVti engines. I know coz my current and last one are all Toyota and they easily gets me to almost 40mpg. Yes Pruis shall be my next ride ;) Practical yet cool. What more do u want for driving a future car in todays polluted (*cough*) world?

I own one, since March, 2006. My Reasons for purchasing: 1) It's a cool car. 2) Lowered emissions save the environment. 3) Better statistics. Fuel savings do make sense over the long haul. Compared to my old $16k Nissan Sentra (cost of getting one today), the $22k Toyota Prius works out. Using an average gas price of $2.50 a gallon (and let's not kid ourselves, it WON'T stay that low over the next five years, much less the ten I plan on keeping mine), here's the math: 23mpg on my current Sentra vs. 46mpg estimated on my Prius (I'm a pessimist - and turns out I actually average about 48mpg, so even better!) assuming 100,000 miles lifetime (for the record, my Sentra was traded in at 12 years, 203,000+ miles, still ran but was nickel and diming me to death on repairs), we get (rounded to nearest dollar): (100,000miles/23mpg)*$2.50/gal=$10,870.00 (100,000miles/46mpg)*$2.50/gal=$5435.00 Difference: $5435.00 Prius ($22k) - Nissan ($16) = $6000. Break-even point: 110,400 miles, IF GAS DOES NOT GO UP. I also point out that last summer, gas hit $3.89/gal for REGULAR in some parts of Chicago, so I know I'll come out ahead much sooner at that rate. :P

I am going to be 16 and I need a good car that is good on gas and will run well for about 6 years. Is a Toyota Prius good for me?

I read in the Toyota brochure that The Prius is supposed to get 60 mpg. in the city and 51 mpg on the highway. A friend of mine has a 2007 and she said she gets 57 in the city and 75 on the highway. She went to Maryland on 6.5 gallons getting an amazing 99 mpg! I do not want to bug her a lot so I'm asking you guys. I need to know about the Prius. Would it handle well for a 16 year old. I am a  4.2 GPA average student and I'm starting college next year. I need a car that is reliable and gets great fuel economy. I'm getting my license in two weeks. After that I need to know the perfect car for me so I can go get. Thanks for helping me out. Please tell me all you know about the Prius and if it is right for me.  Thank You

I've  ordered a 2007 Touring version of Prius and am reading the manuual as I wait for it.  Towing the car may be a problem.  AAA says that they can't tow them.  The manual isn't clear on this , but shows towing on a flatbed or by the front wheels lifted onto a platform.  It seems to suggest that an offcenter (!)  towing eye can be installed  through the bumper to the frame.   Is this going to be a problem.

Any experence out there?  

I have a 'classic' Prius - 2002. (The 2004 redesign was supposed to improve mileage -- but seems mainly to have increased the interior room.)  I've meticulously kept gas mileage records for over 4 years, and I get 44mpg +/- 3mpg all of the time. (I live in Phoenix, AZ and do mostly city but also some mountain-highway driving.)  So far, it's been a very inexpensive car to run and maintain - routine oil changes, a wheel alignment and a set of tires, in the first 45K miles.  However, as much as I like it, I have to agree that you don't buy (a new) one to save money.  Do the math on the present value of your anticipated gas savings.  It doesn't work unless you anticipate a steep run-up in the price of gas (always a possibility).  But do it anyway -- because you've seen an Inconvenient Truth.  A note:  The $1,575 federal tax credit gets cut  in half (again) on April 1, 2007.

Definitely NOT - i just bought a 2007 Prius and here are all the problems i have with it:

1.  My feet feeze!!  The floor heating is very poor.  

2.  I can't see out the back window - the bar splitting the back windshield is distracting and blocks vision.  The back window wiper only cleans 2/3 of the window.

3.  Cheap seats - the seat quality - both padding and covers is very low quality, my back hurts driving this car.

4.  Only one small cup holder on the front seat.

5.  Cheap interior - i have owned the car for two months and already the buttons used to put the car in park and turn the car on and off are all scratched.

Yes, buy a Prius.  I bought mine a few weeks ago.  I love the car, in spite of the great gas mileage and potential carpool stickers.  It rides nice, it's quiet, has all the bells and whistles (I got the high-end with Nav).  You need to get used to driving it though, no peeling out obviously!  I've been averaging 51mpg so far, mixed hwy, mtn and traffic.

I consider anyone buying any hybrid car a hero.  Thank you.

Is it not amazing that Toyota has figured out how to violate the laws of physics. A 3000 lb vehicle going from point A to point B uses energy to do so. In the case of a Prius this energy ALL comes out of the gas tank. When the battery is full, moving the car requires the depletion of energy from the battery. Gasoline is required to replenish the battery when it is depleted. You can't get something for nothing. I believe that the mileage claims Toyota and others are claiming are achievable only under a very narrow set of circumstances. With normal driving habits (i.e., not pissing off the drivers behind you) most people report 34-36 average MPG. To get better than this, one must modify one's driving habits dramatically and actively seek out opportunities to improve their mileage. I believe that happy Prius owners are one's who drive very conservatively and focus on maximizing their mileage. Prius owners are not the type of people who get any pleasure out of the driving experience. Any small, minimalist vehicle can achieve the same mileage as a Prius if driven the same way under the same circumstances. In Europe, they have diesel cars that do better than the Prius could ever hope to. The Prius's popularity is a testiment to the power of advertising and PR. The Prius is no "greener" than any other economy car on the road. 35mpg is 35mpg. Whether the gas is consumed by a hybrid or not, the emissions are the same. Remember, it's the gasoline that does the work and the battery simply stores that energy.

Amen, Alex.   The Prius may be the greatest car in the world for some but an over priced under performing brick to others.   I drive a small displacement motorcycle 9 months of the year (Minnesota) that gets 60mpg and is California Green rated.   I have a big diesel pickup for weekend warrior and winter driving.   The wife has an SUV that is sometimes too small for the soccer-mom stuff.   A Prius would not help our family or the environment in my circumstances.   If you’re not hauling a big crew, not driving long distance, are doing a lot of in town driving then the Prius might work for you.   If you want to save the environment than Alex makes a great point, you are still burning gas and it will take X amount of gas to move X amount of weight.   Some just do slightly better than others but it is marginal.   Please look up emission specs.  Better gas mileage does NOT mean less pollution.  There are some sedans that are running almost zero emissions (I work for a company that makes emission control components for the automotive and truck industry) well below the Prius.   Even some SUVs, burning twice the gas per mile, are better than some small cars. (Room and power for big exhaust treatment systems.)   I wont get into specific brands because I don’t want to argue off topic and I don’t know what is public knowledge.  The emissions game is a funny business.  And I do mean GAME. As many have said on this thread, buy it because it’s cool and fits you.   Not to save the world or money.

Just the other day, I went and drove a 2007 Prius, I thought the handling was decent and the car was unique.

For the OWNERS of a Prius. Why did you buy the Prius?  Is it because of the great gas mileage, or is it for the enviroment, or  is it hip and cool and the wave of the future.  If you had to choose only one reason, what would it be?  Last, are than any stats on these questions?

Thanks

Alex, you should read about the technology in the Prius before posting something like this.  Your claim that "this energy ALL comes out of the gas tank" is a vast oversimplification.  For one thing, the Prius uses regenerative braking - kinetic energy that is normally converted to heat when braking in a standard car is instead used to recharge the battery.  

I'm thinking about getting one, and I've studied the car.  It incorporates a fairly sophisticated hybrid system.  I am a physicist, and I don't see anyone violating any laws of physics here when they say it gets better mileage.  I suggest you read about it some more.

I drive pretty fast.  80+ on fwy.  i commute over 600 miles per wk.  i have to drive up a steep incline to my house which takes 12 minutes in my infiniti g35.  

i took a test drive in a prius yesterday and it got 35 average on the test drive.  the salesman told me since sitting idle wears down the battery and this vehicle had been test driven several times that it had to use more gas.  but i recall that we drove around looking for the touring model for abt 10 minutes before the drive.  

i don't know how much tighter the handling is on a touring model but this car was unsettling on turns.  maybe it's all relative to your previous car.

do most prius drivers drive slowly and therefore get better milage?  45+?

If you do buy a Prius, be aware that it is low-slung so a rough rocky driveway must be driven over slowly.  Also be aware that they are fragile.  In a recent fender bender I managed to demolish the front end while leaving a hand-sized dent in the passenger side of a Honda SUV.  Total damage was over 11 thousand dollars, almost half the price of the car.  And then it was in the shop for over a month.  If you live in snowy, slippery country be sure slow down well ahead of time, especially if you are used to "gearing down" in a straight stick.  On greasy snow my brakes simply didn't do the job.

"Any small, minimalist vehicle can achieve the same mileage as a Prius if driven the same way under the same circumstances. In Europe, they have diesel cars that do better than the Prius could ever hope to."

that's the point isn't it my friend -  a smaller car could get the same milage, ergo, the prius is a more efficient car. And as it happens I am in Europe, and I can tell you for a fact that you are wrong about our EU diesels. They are fine cars, and the milage get's fairly close on highway, but not as good. hybrid is cool.

I think part of the problem here with the non-hybrid enthusiasts is that they want to drive hard and fast. Well.. I don't think the Prius is built for that.

I've read reports where people after buying a Prius have fun trying to maximize their fuel efficiency. If that's the case, what's wrong with that? They are saving money at the pump, getting their jollies and helping contribute to a real problem... Global warming.

Obviously, if your looking for performance, the Prius is not the car for you. In that case, get yourself a BMW, Mercedes, or whatever floats your boat. But if you are looking to cut down fuel consumption, help the environment a little, and have a car that gets pretty great gas mileage without sacrificing, get the Prius.

By Sacrificing... what I mean is any other car that's sort of comparable to the Prius is a little sardine can of a car. At least the Prius is a mid-size that you can put yourself and a few friends in fairly comfortably. Or yourself, one person, and fold down the seats and put some stuff in.

You can't get that with a Yaris or some other similar car.

I don't own one at this time, but I am seriously looking at them for my next purchase(around 6 months.

I am a semi-professional musician, and would like the extra gas mileage to travel to gigs and have room for the PA equipment.

WE like our '05 Prius so much that we bought an '06.  Every time we head out our drive we feel as if we are doing the best we can for our future and our grandchildrens futures. I cannot understand why the comments persist about how the expense offsets the savings.  Our cars were only (about) 22k and 26k.  What expense?

In reply to the physicist, in order to "recapture" the Prius' kinetic energy, one must have generated it in the first place, which means either recapturing energy already established by the gasoline engine, the batteries, or gained from the force of gravity, such as going down a hill...

My father once decided to go on a gas-saving kick; he turned off his engine when stopped, when coasting to stops and down hills, etc. He got 60MPG in his Triumph TR3.  One would not want to do that today, but it proves the point that driver techniques can greatly factor into the fuel-saving equation. One can also employ similar technology; for example, my 1987 Nissan Maxima {from which I still get 26 MPG) shuts down the fuel injectors when you take your foot off the accelerator...

Besides that, Toyota isn't that altruistic - a plug-in (or solar cells on the roof) could make a significantly better energy resource, and where are they with those simple approaches?

As for diesels, I owned a 1976 Volkswagen Rabbit diesel and drove it for 30,000 U.S. miles of mixed driving.  I maintained it carefully and kept extremely accurate records.  It averaged an overall 49.97 MPG (U.S.) and cost $8.40 in unscheduled maintenance (piece of road trash got kicked into the alternator belt).  Amazingly, here we are 30 years later with folks bragging about mileage that just begins to approach that? I am obviously not impressed with Prius' MPG figures.

Moreover, Prius owners, in thinking they are green, must all have been bewitched by the Toyota Pied Piper -- the overall carbon footprint of a Prius EXCEEDS THAT OF AN SUV!  Moreover, there are plenty of zero-emission non-hybrids.  Prius owners are neither green nor smart, they're just victims of P. T. Barnum's axiom...

Want real automotive progress in the area of fuel savings and greenicity (I just invented that word)?  Mate hybrid technology with the new, "clean" VW TDI diesel, augment the battery charging capability via plug-in capability, add more augmentation via roof-mounted solar cells (why are we wasting all that sun power, particularly on the top of buses or truck trailers?!) and get several HUNDRED MPG, plus plenty of power.

We just got back from a two week vacation. The battery in our recently purchased BRAND NEW 2007 Prius is dead. This is the second time it has happened. When the battery dies, the car doors WON'T LOCK. We had kept valuable items in it and are thankful they weren't stolen.

We are done. We will be unloading it ASAP and getting a regular car until the bugs in hybrids are worked out.

We found that the T-Mobile Dash does not work well with the 2007 model of the Toyota Prius. Other phones worked well but in the case of the Dash, it did not turn off automatically, the volume was very low and the sound quality was not great. We do not recommend that model of cell phone for this car. Note that the Verizon Wireless and Cingular phones worked better although the T-Mobile SDA was better than the Dash.

I had ased questions here before. I just wanted to say that I tried out a Toyota Prius and it just did not do anything for me and for what I want. I bought a 2007 Honda Element EX 4wd. It is the best vehicle in the world! And I'm happy to say I'm achieving 30 MPG!!! So I am happy with my decision and than you for the help that you supplied to me. Thank you.

I am holding off on buying a hybrid / pure-EV simply because I am not prone to early adoption of new technology. I prefer to wait until the kinks have been worked out and improved features added.

In the case of the Prius, I think it is a fine car and Toyota should be commended for making steps toward the future. There was almost 0 chance that U.S. auto manufacturers would have started making steps if some foreign company did not step up to the plate. Toyota and Honda have one of the most (perhaps the #2 and #1 respectively) full efficient car fleets in the world....The U.S. car fleet's fuel efficiency barely beats a Model-T...maybe not even that.

The simple fact that CalCars can mod the car in a short period of time for $5k to get 100+ MPG (by adding a lead-acid battery array) seems to indicate the potential of the Prius in my opinion.

When I next buy a car, I would like all the bells and whistles of EV: plug-in, electric-only range of 40+ miles, rooftop solar cells, and perhaps even clean diesel (with support for using biodisel) as the backup fuel.

It sounds like I should also require more comfortable seats.

However, none of my personal wants for an eco-car diminish the real accomplishment of Toyota:

The "marketing" success that some of you are denigrating has done what none had accomplished previously...make eco / fuel-efficient vehicles popular. I think (or hope) that this little pebble of innovation will start an avalanche that will push average fuel economy in to the 50+ mpg range and top fuel economy to 100+ mpg.

i currently drive an suv that averages @ 20 mpg (total 60% city). How many miles a month would i need to drivwe to make a prius pay to own?

I drive a lot and I'm in the market for a new car. Let's say averaging 2500 miles/month and let's assume $3.20 per gallon. If you buy a car that averages 50mpg - fuel cost/month=$160, at 40mpg=$200, at 30mpg=$267 and at 20mpg=$400/mo. A diesel, like a VW Jetta (45mpg) & with diesel at $2.80, your fuel cost/mo would be $156/mo. Purely a decision on milage? Jetta-Prius, it's a wash right now. Their prices are similar for new. Now, a Jetta or a Prius at $25K financed for 3 years at 10%, no money down is over $800/month. There's a slew of other cars you can buy for $15K or less with at least 30mpg. To finance $15K at 10% for 3 years, no money down is about $490/mo. Now calcualte your situation and go buy a car your comfortable in.

My "commute" to work is 3 miles. Aside form that, I would drive the Prius only short 15 minute trips around the island. I read somewhere that it is recommended by Toyota to drive it at least for 30 minutes at a time every week for the health of the battery. And then I read here about problems with the battery if the car is parked for 2 weeks. I do hope to get away on vacation once in a while, maybe even for 3 weeks. Sounds like Prius is not a car for me.  

nothing like a little slave labor to brighten your purchase.

www.bloomberg.com/.../news

I bought a new prius 5 months ago.  I am very happy with my purchase. Personally, I do think the money saved in gas was worth the purchase.  I have cut my monthly gas bill in half.  The prius has plenty of power when taking off and I love the way it looks. The smart key it great and the fact they it is not adding to the pollution problem is also a plus. I personally never considered a diesel simply because they are not as fuel efficient nor are they as good for the environment.

Anyone have any comments on the Prius's performance with two bikes on the roof. Considering one but will need to be capable to maintain highways speeds with the aerodynamic restriction.

I bought a 2007 Prius in May. Have about 4,000 miles on it and so far I'm very happy with it. After numerous 4 hour trips, mostly interstate, I have averaged 47/49/mpg...regardless of how carefully I drive.  Now, I just relax, go the maximum speed limit and forget about coasting and other dumb tricks. Time is valuable and the sooner I reach my destination the better.  Love the fact that we can travel from Illinois to Cincinnati and never make a pit stop!!!

On Aug. 30, 2007 I tried to pick up a Toyota Prius (previously reserved) from Hertz car rental at PDX.  I was told all their Prius'were in the shop for "electrical problems".  At first they said 5 of their Prius were there, then later told me "all 3" were in the shop for this problem.  I know of no recalls current for Prius for any electrical problems. I think all their cars must be at least 2006 or 2007 models.  Does anyone out there have any info on this?  I suspect they did not have any available and were lying to me to cover up their mistake in not having one set aside for me as promised.

I just bought one a few months ago. That was the smartest thing i have done! I ave between 54+56 mpg. I live in NJ so i drive both city and highway.

AFTER YEARS OF LOOKING, I FINALLY BOUGHT A 2007 PRIUS IN APRIL 2007.  WE TOOK A TRIP, 7200 MILES. FLORIDA, BLUE RIDGE MOUNTAINS, NY, CONN, RHODE ISLAND.  I KEPT CAREFUL RECORDS AND ADVERTAGED 53.6 MPG ON THE WHOLE TRIP.  NEVER WENT OVER 70MPH. DROVE THROUGH NYC, BROOKLYN, BRONX, QUEENS, STATEN ISLAND. THIS IS WHERE I ONLY GOT 48,7 MPG.  THE CAR IS GREAT. IF EVERYONE BOUGHT A PRIUS WE WOULD NOT HAVE A GAS PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY.

IF EVERYONE BOUGHT A PRIUS WE WOULD NOT HAVE A GAS PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY.

Not true the damant of fuel is every year

greater even if everyone drives a prius.

But the prius is a great and fun car to drive!

Have fun with yourse!

(sorry for the bad english i'm from Holland europe)

Gr. Raymond

While it is true that the pruis is designed to save fuel the pruis i bought six months ago wiht 12k miles on it is broken down and toyota has just informed a new "corporate" decision was made and that all the 2007s do not have road side assistance!!! Luckyme, i get i to pay the tow truck. HMM i am begining to wonder about priuses....

I've flipped back in forth between buying a midsize sedan (honda accord,toyota camry) and a hybrid car.

I think buying a toyota camry hybrid makes no sense at all!! But if interested in saving gas, I think the prius is the way to go, even though, it doesn't get you that much as the advertised 51/61 mpg.

I've read all your comments which have been really helpfull. I'm gonna have to buy a car within 7 days and gonna testdrive a prius today.  

Sure its 5-6K more for the hybrid technology, but that's all we got right now. Besides, you won't lose much on the resale which is what I plan on doing when the electric car comes out in 2008-2009.

Rick mentioned that the road side assistance is no longer offered.  A salesman today told me that if anything under warranty requires a repair, and the car is not drivable, our tow bill will be reimbursed by Toyota?  Has this changed?

Also, we live in an area where the temperature can be zero to minus 20 in winter.  I'm giving up my heated seats, and want a good floor heater for my feet.  Can anyone comment on the floor heater of the 2008 Prius. Please respond quickly as we're ready to buy tomorrow!

Had heated seats installed by our Toyota dealer before we picked up our 2007 Touring with cloth interior, work perfect.  The heating system is the best I have owned in 35 years driving in Wyoming, Colordo and Montana.  This is a wonderfully comfortable car 20K miles in less than 9 months and the seats really are comfortable, Toyota designed them that way they do not fool you into thinking you are sitting in a couch, they are and automobile and you get out of the car able to move!  Talk to your dealer about installing heated seats, they can be added to any car without leather or with....

You guys painted quite a picture. I decide not to buy a Prius, reasons:

1. The technology seems still not 100% mature, it still has space for price dropping.

2. The saving on gas is not proportional to what you've paid in extra for your purchase unless you keep the car for a lot of year + you drive a lot + the gas price increases.

3. Tax is not favoring Hybrid car anymore.

4. The interior of Prius is terrible.

Keeping our mother earth clean is nice, but, let's face it, most of us are driven by price, not how many CO2 we can reduce each year.

We bought a 2007 Prius 2 months ago and I love it. I love the high-tech display screen (although I generally don't know what it's telling me other than the current and average gas mileage - is it a good thing when I generate those little cars?) My mileage averages 47-48 mpg - I drive mostly on the highway at 65 mph and some driving in town. We've always had fuel efficient cars, including diesels, but I like the Prius the best so far. Diesels can save fuel, but they are somewhat stinky.

Had a friend in a wreck.  Her 2007 Prius almost caused her death.  Her  brake line was severed.  Since all four wheels get their brake fluid from the same line she had no brakes.  She was hit in the from drivers side her electric wheels keep turning she could not stop her car and it took about 1/2 mile to stop when she hit a guard rail.  It has caused me to think twice about buying one.

I've had my 2004 Prius for almost 4 years now and love it.  I always wonder though, when people say that one "pays the price" for hybrid and don't expect $$$ savings.  I don't think the Prius is priced unreasonably at all!  If you are comparing it to a Corolla or a Civic, perhaps, but this car is head and shoulders over either of those, even if it wasn't a hybrid.  It's much roomier and has great standard features.  My Prius is over 60,000 miles now with no problems at all.  I hope to keep it another 5 years.  And hopefully, by then, there will be even greener cars available.  I can't believe that Prius is still the only car specifically created to be a hybrid and optimize fuel efficiency.

I just got a 2008 Prius, I love it, true it is not the most luxurious, but it is very economical and for a person that doesn't drive that far and doesn't care about speed racing, this is great for me. I talked to several people that owned these cars for up to 2 yrs and they said they had zero problems. None.

 I have to admit, I am extremely lucky though..this was a gift from my sister. Her family traded their top of the line Mercedes and Range Rover in for a Prius and a Lexis hybrid. Big difference !!!Esp. in luxory. That was enough of a statement for me. I am a believer.      

I sense some "Prius envy" among the people posting here who don't own one.  In fact the gas mileage will be in the 45-48 mpg range if driven "normally" - a little better if you are a miser.  (My brother-in-law who is a leadfoot gets 43 mpg.)  This puts you about 10-15 mpg better than your "economy car".   People like the Physics student Alex don't know what they are talking about.   The "synergy drive" sytem removes the two most dirty and wasteful parts of driving from the gas engine's duties - idling and accelerating.   It also stores energy during braking.   The "funny look" of the car is due to the extra care given to aerodynamics by the designers.  These four features account for is how these gas mileage improvements are achieved.

I just bought a 2008 last week.  I love the sporty look and the great mileage.  The Smart Key feature is a fun toy.  I intend to be buried in this delightful little car.

Had to laugh at some of the comments on here about MPG and how much better hybrid cars are than diesels....

10 years ago I was running a Ford Orion 1.6 diesel which would average 55 around town (this is in the UK). On a run it would be up to around 65mpg.

My wife runs a UK spec 2003 Mondeo TDCI 2.0 dieel which averages about 45mpg now, whilst I run a 1989 Land Rover Defender - again averaging around 28mpg. The thing is, the Land Rover is the ultimate reecycled vehicle - it gets run on biodiesel, remould tyres etc and gets used for just about everything - daily drive, towing heavy, off road driver training etc... as well as voluntary work with a 4x4 response group. I can also fix it without the need to access a computer - it has no electronics on it whatsoever....

We've had an 07 Prius for about a year. It seems this car's milage really shines in the worst traffic. For example, a two hour bumper to bumper commute I can get 60 and even 70 mpg. On a long 200 mile interstate trip it averages in the 50's to mid 50's, going 65-75 MPH. For normal everyday use it's in the mid 40's.

It handles great, plenty comfortable, and if need be can easily kick it up a notch go into the passing lane.

We drive normally, 5-10 mph over the speed limit. We don't excellerate exceptionally slow or fast. We simply drive it like a normal car.

We often transport 3 people in the car and have plenty of leg and head room. It stores plenty of luggage as well.

If you want to hate on the car, I'm ok with that!

The computer reports MPG's about 5 MPG  higher than actual.  Has anyone out there checked their Prius, using the actual gallons of gas bought against the odometer milage snfd the computer calculation??  

Roy

2008 Prius vs 05 Outback Suburu (XT Turbo)?  We live at 7200 ft elevation and so do a lot of all season mountainous driving.  Two kiddo's and a BIG doggie(possibly 2) and want it all!!!  We get plenty of snow/ice conditions and need to be able to travel to and from town 4-8miles and then work 60miles each way. Needs enough power to go up mountains and be able to pass--------like to go 5-10mph over speed limit.  So what is the solution.  The Prius has amazed us with all its special gizmo's---especially the kiddo's.  The Suburu seems more practical and less expensive eventhough the gas mileage will not ever come close to the Prius.  What should we do?

I'm anxious to see what folks say about the last question - am also looking at the Prius, and am the owner of large dogs.  I currently drive a Honda CR-V, about 25 mpg but lots of room.  I "think" the dogs can fit - and realistically, how often are they all (3) in the car?  But it needs to be able to happen.  Don't think I should be driving 50 miles to and from work every day in a medium-sized SUV by myself.  Plus - gas is expensive!  Drove 27,000 miles last year!

Taking delivery of a 2008 Pirus this Saturday in Chicago, Like the gizmos, dont care much about the milage, gives me a "Star War" feeling, just enjoy...

I'm doing a report on the Prius and would like any information anyone has.

I owned an '05 Prius. The car now has 35,000 miles. I am averaging 35 MPH. Thats all I get.

I am wondering and envious when I read about people reporting about getting 40-50 MPH. I complained to the dealer but their response

was the ethanol in the gasoline that cause the lower gas mileage. I guess I just have to live

with it. 35 MPH is not bad compared to my SUV.

As an aside, ethanol in gasoline will lower the overall energy content of the gasoline (ethanol is not as energy dense), so any vehicle using an ethanol blend will have a lower gas milege.

I purchased a 2001 and it did fine for 110K, then it died. To fix it would have cost $13,000!!!! New technology is good but I replaced it with a 1995 Mazda Protege which is averaging 40 mpgs (it a 5 speed). I encouraged my brother to buy a 2007 and he has had problems with it since he got it! So be careful!

I had mine for 3 years now and let me tell you... the BEST choice I ever made!!!! I also have a Nissan Maxima 2005 and I paid over $600 a month on the gas. With the Prius I can go 2 weeks on $20.00. Not you tell me if this is not cool? My Prius has 60.000 miles already but the only thing I changed on this car is a oil. That's it! No problem with anything at all. Car can easily go 95 mpg. I mean common.. how many people drive that fast? I love the interior of the car too. I think it's very cool has all the latest staff in there. For the person who said that it's not good of a car needs to get over her/him self!

I test drove a prius yesterday/I just loved it. Today I test drove a different one. It was a very sunny day, and I couldn't see how fast I was going. Is this common?

I'm a Prius owner and I'm very happy with my car.  The 51/60 MPG is not true but i definately expect mid 40s to 50.  In winter the MPG goes down into the low 40s though.  

Great car, handles well and is very quiet.  

prius are awesome car but the only down side is this (you might wana read this) hope this helps :)

Troy of Forest Hill MC (5/2/03):

I bought a new Toyota Prius March 15. I was shocked and alarmed to read on page 8: "If you do not use the vehicle for a long time (2 weeks or more), the hybrid vehicle battery and auxiliary battery will discharge and their condition is liable to decline (thus voiding your warranty). Therefore, in order to make up for discharging, charge them once in every two weeks for about 30 minutes by starting the hybrid system with all electrical components turned off."

www.consumeraffairs.com/.../toyota_prius_battery.html

I own a 2007 Toyota Prius and I can only say good things about the car. I have taken a trip from KC to Lexington Kentucy and from KC to Palm Springs Calif. My MPG on the highway was 49 and driving only on city streets in KC I get better than 60 miles per gallon. To get this kind of MPG I believe you really need to have a clear understanding of how a hysrid functions. I've been involved with hybrid technolgy and design for 30 years and I know how to achieve this high mpg. One way thing Toyota should do is put a green and red light on the dash which would tell the drive when the engine was on and when you were in all electric. The way to get this kind of MPG you need to drive it like the manual tells you but you also need to be able to tell when the engine has stopped and you are on all electric. Once you are all electric you need to learn to keep it in all electric till the battery gets low enough to demand the engine to start. You also must stay under 40 MPH as above that on level ground the engine will start. All the speeders on the road make it difficult to get better but on a Sunday with little traffic I can make my round trip, 25 miles, to my factory and average 86 MPG.

Most people are only getting in the 43 to 49  MPG range but they aren't working to stretch the MPG.

Remember, for those of you in England, a British Gallon is larger than a US Gallon.  So your mileage will be higher.  I believe that is why your European diesels seem to get such high mileage.

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Bought a Prius in April...after thinking we wouldn't like it.  We were impressed by the car in many ways: mpg, the lack of a "shift" feel as you accelerate and the amazing space in such a small car.  We drove it on a 2000 mile road trip and averaged 44mpg.  Since we had hills, we were impressed.  It's only been about 5000 miles so far, but we LOVE the Prius.  The price is reasonable.  We were comparing it to vehicles like the Volvo station wagon and Dodge Magnum.  You'd get maybe a little more space for probably $10,000 more, plus gas.  With gas prices these days, people are going to wish they had a Prius!

I just bought one Monday... 2008 package 3...

I love it so far...

I've gone 115 miles and its still says I have

a completely full tank.

How can that be?????