How I was Fooled by Dave Winer

You know, I had so hoped that Dave Winer would prove me wrong, that maybe he really had changed. So I hear from the comments in Scoble's link to me that he's back, and posted this melodramatic soliloquy (look it up) on his site. He says "I made my point." Unfortunately Dave, you made a point all right. It just wasn't the one you wanted.

Dave, you proved intsead that you are, in many ways, a four year old. Four year olds take their ball and go play somewhere else if they don't get their way. They play stupid mind games so they can be validated, and make sure that people like them.

You know, you had me fooled there for a second. I almost thought you were human. I felt bad to comparing you to Scoble's anonymous coward. I saw how people are talking about a new standard, and I can understand how you feel. Now I feel like I should have you get your diaper changed or something. I mean, how egomaniacal are you to think that the world is gonna fall apart because your site is down?

And the worst part of it all is, we all played right into his little hands. UGH that makes me so mad. Look, I have these 2 products. One translates data between formats, and one helps enable IntelliSense for web.config files in Visual Studio.NET. Now, both of these products will be obsolete in 2 years. Why? Because Whidbey hasd support for IntelliSense in web.config files, and Yukon Reporting Services will be able to kick out Excel and PDF files w/o any kinds of add-ons. Do I let this stop me? HELL NO. Why? Because I'll have my place in filling the gap in the interim. And maybe, I'll have a hand in shaping the next generation of tools. At any rate, I get to fulfill a need now, AND I have motivation to keep innovating in other areas.

Something better will always come along. These guys don't even have a working draft of anything yet. They just know that what exists now is inadequate. So instead of saying "Hey, I learned alot about the needs while creating RSS, I bet I could help you guys out. Having a single, unified API for blogging sounds really cool . We tried it with MetaWeblogAPI and so forth, but we've learned a lot since then, and it can always be better." No. Winer, the great and powerful (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!) thought that the whole world would grind to a halt because he wasn't blogging anymore. Hey, I'm got an ego too. I'm passionate too. I'm as dumb about opening my mouth as the next guy. But to have the cahones to think that we'd just forget about Echo just to have you back in the community...... ugh.

You shot yourself in the foot when you said in your RSS 2.0 spec "The spec is finished. There will never be a 3.0." The MovableType people even cited this specific reason for their support of Echo. Well, there will be a new version. And it will probably come from the Echo group. 

Dave, you cannot stop innovation. Yeah, RSS will be around for a while. It has entered history as the format one guy started that everyone from Interscape to Microsoft adopted. What have you done since then, BESIDES piss everyone else off?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice......

You better believe that WON'T happen again.

12 Comments

  • hey dude, don't know much about the background to your little flamewar, but trust me in my experience flaming gets you nowhere, no matter how much of an idiot the other guy might be. It will cheapen your name, and if you think his is already cheap, why go down to his level.

  • <robert to voice on shoulder>Hello voice! Thanks for speaking up so much lately. You've been a great help. Don't stop any time soon. I like to learn.

  • Robert, you just expressed everything I meant by my comment in your last post.





    Like you, I had started feeling that Dave Winer had a point - that he was willing to extend RSS to include the technical imporvements that Echo supposedly addresses. I wasn't yet convinced (as I know firsthand how abrasive Dave can be in matters requiring compromise) but I was beginning to give him the benefit of the doubt.





    Unfortunately the antics of Dave this weekend appear to be only the tip of worse things to come. He speaks often - and actually quite accurately too - about the importance of the community. Too bad that like everyone, even his actions speak louder than his words.

  • The reason I started posting again is because I heard from the people I needed to hear from, the good people who read Scripting News on a summer Sunday, not the selfish flamers. I might publish the emails, there are about a hundred, and only one was from a guy like you, making accusations. My humanity is not in question Robert, despite what you say. Whether you have an axe to grind here, is.

  • You're right, Dave. Your humanity is not in question. Although it SEEMS inhuman of you to toy with my emotions like that, you did not read the post before this one, one which Scoble also linked too, which apologized and wished you luck. I thought you were genuinely trying to change. Instead it just appeared that you took your ball back and went to go play with someone else.

  • What has Dave Winer done since co-creating RSS? He co-created XML-RPC, created OPML, created the MetaWeblog API, created the XmlStorageSystem API, and evangelized all of these protocols and APIs (and others).





    He's even helped give Echo a considerable boost by announcing that he'll encourage UserLand to implement the protocol and linking to it numerous times on Scripting News. If he really wanted to take his ball and go home, wouldn't he do the opposite?





    One of the ironies of this situation is that Dave gets accused of not working well with others in an environment built in considerable part by collaborative protocols and technology he developed.

  • A few thoughts on this flame war.





    First, it appears to me that many people are taking this all a little too seriously. No lives, careers, or freedoms are on the line, so why all the name calling? When passions run hot, take a deep breath.





    Second, Dave is a very public figure, so when name calling cascades, well it must be overwhelming. The presumption that he has rhino-thick skin is clearly overstated. Manners exist to permit people who don't necessarily like each to coexist in peace and even to cooperate on tasks of mutual interest.





    Third, while people post in the moment, blogging is a cumulative act. In the process, it reveals much about people (too much?). Try not to judge people by the post that gored you today, but by their overall autoblogphraphy. You will have a better measure of the blogger, and so make better choices.





    Inhale.





    Count to ten.





    Exhale.





    Repeat.



  • Yay... I love new readers.





    All very good stuff.





    Phil, if it's any consolation, this was one of my calmer posts. I've worked really hard to cut back on the tongue-lashing.

  • LOL. Thank you. Self improvement is a constant process. I work every day at improving some aspect of my life. I think that the same notions could be applied to RSS. If it dies, it's because Dave killed it by not allowing it to improve any more. Just like my personality would die if I let it stagnate.

  • Phil Wolff wrote:





    "Second, Dave is a very public figure, so when name calling cascades, well it must be overwhelming. The presumption that he has rhino-thick skin is clearly overstated. Manners exist to permit people who don't necessarily like each to coexist in peace and even to cooperate on tasks of mutual interest."





    And Dave has yet to show any. I mean, he's the biggest bomb thrower of them all who then has the audacity to complain about people flaming him.





    The Movable Type and Blogger folks are simply taking Dave's advice not to listen to flamers. I bet developers have a lot better things to do than try to figure out what the hell Winer's talking about when he calls them "funky" and posts mini-essays attacking them for allegedly usurping his role.





    The only surprising thing about this blowup is that it didn't happen sooner.

  • Well, I'm sure it's probably easy to see that as a "he's a 21 year old who thinks he knows everything" approach, but it's not the case. I know there is much that I need to learn. I've been working on starting my own company for going on the 4th year. I won't stop till it's done. 10.. 15... 20 years? Who knows?





    The difference in Dave's case is, if it took so long to do and achieved so much, why is he so eager to let his mouth completely distroy that investment and accomplishment?

  • I don't know if anyone's noticed, but Dave may be going through a sea change. In the last year he started walking for an hour a day, stopped smoking, sold his house, bought a new one three thousand miles away, sold off his company, started a new job that is non-techie and all policy/education/evangelism, picked up new stakeholders, made new friends, is travelling less. That's a lot in a short time.





    Just by way of looking for deeper causes.





    hmmmmm. I wonder if psychotherapists can analyze someone just from their blogging...

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