Are you a comedian? Have to read about this in your
resume.
Well I am one of those guys coming out from college and
I can tell you that not even on 7 figures I would join a
mediocre company like microsoft.
Bye
Nuno: Ws standards and others were not necessarily
created by MS. Gogle could have been part of it, or any
other one of the large companies out there (BEA, SUN..)
that are doing "Architecture astronomy"
From the looks of it, I don't think MS would love to
have you either, BTW, so no worries.
Thanks for the reality check. Joel could have as easily
written an article about all the baskets Michael Jordan
missed during his career.
Maybe, just maybe, Joel can figure out how to get his
FogBugz product to delete related cases (a feature that
people have been *begging* for for YEARS now!). Also,
hopefully, he can hire someone that can figure out how
to update his application without restarting the whole
web server!
How he got "famous" hawking a mediocre product like
FogBugz is beyond me.
I'd attribute a lot of what you raise to researchers,
obviously the big companies have put the man power in to
create the product but a lot of what is being done
before/now/future has been around for years and years. A
quick search on something like ACM or IEEE would yield
many papers on supposed "new" solutions.
Granted that *some* of these researchers are funded by
the big companies though.
Joel really "went for it", i mean "working on hopeless
and useless architecture astronomy" really?? that's what
he thinks of MSFT and GOOG? Aren't these the two
companies that have shaped the internet and desktop
app's to become what they are today? aren't these
companies somewhat responsible for all of us having
jobs? (in my case that's obvious...)
Nuno: you're a douche, if MSFT offered you an internship
where YOU had pay then you should take it and maybe
learn a thing or two.
"not even on 7 figures"
whatever... I guess your parents are paying for your
Harvard education as well?
Joel is very elitist in his attitude, because he was a
project manager for Excel many many years ago, he thinks
he knows everything.
You've really missed the hole point of his article...
Joel has no problem with unsuccessful projects, nor with
MS's great success stories.
All he's saying, with his usual funny as hell sarcasm,
is that the hole sync shebang is - again - getting out
of hand...
And whilst you can agree and disagree about that, his
bigger problem is that like in the beginning of the big
hi-tech bang, big companies pay big money to small
children, which is not good for the industry, not good
for the companies and especially not good for these
children.
Funny thing. I've just clicked on the link you labeled
"How do you support X millions of transactions per
minute?" and get the following response:
Sorry, we were unable to service your request at this
time. Please try again later.
(Code: c26353c3-f292, 5/2/2008 12:36 PM)
You should all proof-read your blogs and comments before
posting! From this page alone:
gogole
Gogle
your wrong
your selling
exaggeratig
the hole point
...
Even if Joe might be a bit harsh I think you place a
little too much belief in the 2 big ones. Yes, both MS
and Google have contributed to the world of computing
and networking, but saying things like: 'When was the
last *important* thing you've built that didn't rely on
some knowledge that came out of one of those two huge
companies?' I think you ar egiving them a bit too much
credit. Most things they are very good at were started
elsewhere (and is still done elsewhere) and there's tons
of existing tech outside them (RoR, django, all from
apache foundation, sun).
Having said that,I just must answer Nuno Job (let's feed
the trolls!;-), you clearly haven't much clue. unit
testing is an excellent tool. formal methods are all
very nice, but cost a lot in time and money, for
spaceshuttles, cars and aeroplanes yes, pleae use them
but for everyday application development? slight
overkill.
Yes I do have a clue Fredrik. How can you assume that
without knowing me or my work? That is plain stupid.
The reason I (re)acted like a jerk is the fact that the
guy that posted this article is a jerk himself and can't
relax, read joel article and have fun with it. Instead
he's a microsoft grupie so he must whine and whine
against all that comes in ms way.
You're spot on Roy. I read Joel's post and it seemed
like he was bitter about MSFT and Google luring away the
brighter devs with more money and brand name.
He put out an article a few years where he said he paid
a high starting salary (75K) to new grads to attract
them, apart from the environment. If it takes more money
nowadays to get the best talent, then he needs to cough
it up.
Personally, I don't get the appeal of product companies.
You work on a small module that is part of the entire
product, never get to see the entire picture, and spend
a large amount of your time doing bug fixes, and
building on top a stable framework. The opportunity to
learn new technology is minimal. This was my experience
at least.
I much prefer project-based work, where you get to work
on a variety of apps and domains.
I agree.. I was surprised when I read Joel's post. It
seemed to be a marketing stunt to get more people to
work for him (or to keep them working for him) and it
seemed to go against what he said in the past. Keep in
mind, his analogy of "architectural astronauts" is very
true... Indeed after reading about it, I am seeing them
all over the place!