Lots of big claims Roy, but not much in the way of facts
or examples. Can we take the conversation off another
way? I, and a whole bunch of others, feel like the whole
"I can mock anything, anytime, anywhere" thing is either
harmful or not really that important in the greater
scheme of things (my stance btw). You might be walking
uphill trying to argue the Type interception aspect of
TypeMock as a deciding factor.
That being said, what other reasons might I choose
TypeMock over RhinoMocks? RhinoMocks is free, and
there's a huge amount of literature, community, and
blogging examples of its usage. I've seriously never
seen an example of TypeMock usage on a blog. Not one
single blog post.
Personally, the only thing that's going to sell me on
TypeMock over (FOSS) RhinoMocks is if you can show me
that the syntax is easier to read and write.
I'm not really trying to argue with you so much as see
exactly why you think TypeMock has an advantage over
RhinoMocks. Sell me on the usability of TypeMock.
@Jeremy
You are right, the free version of TypeMock does not
have the same quality of syntax as Rhino. The versions
you pay for have cool features but the price per desk
seems to me to be prohibitive for a mocking framework.
Your blogs are just becoming a glorified advert for
Typemocks.
If you are turning this into a us vs Rhino then remember
that Rhino mocks beats you on the 2 major factors - it
comes at an attractive price and has great community
support.
I do hope that Roy represents the new voice of TypeMock,
this is a more reasonable position than we've seen in
the past; TypeMock has been as dogmatic as any of us in
this storm in a teacup. As I've said to Roy elsewhere,
my issue (in case anyone cares) is not the tool but the
position the authors have historically taken.
Personally, I'd like to feel that the people at TypeMock
understand the trade-offs in their position, and that
they're doing their bit to lead people on to the "good
stuff". TypeMock has powerful features that can make a
team more Agile--or help them paint themselves into a
corner and give up in disgust.
I've been on a couple of gigs where I had to clean up
complicated, brittle tests that were just dragging the
team down. One of the worst problems was endless
multi-level mocking to get around the fact that they
weren't breaking up the code. The ability to override
classes meant that they hadn't been thinking about
object roles and responsibilities, just slicing through
the code to get through this ****ing test. Often they'd
have been better off writing integration tests instead.
(I've also seen some pretty unproductive Scrum adoptions
too, so maybe the metaphor applies after all :-)
Lucy :
I'm writing my thoughts and concerns about what I do on
my blog. I just so happen to be inside a testing tool
that is quite contravercial for many people, which leads
me to many thoughts which sometimes challenge
assumptions.
Since unit testing is what I do, and I work on a unit
testing tool, it is natural that i open up the state for
conversation about what the pros and cons are for such a
thing, and what it means for our industry.
I'm trying to stay fair and balanced by bringing in
opposing views to what you call "adverts" inside the
posts, there by creating a real discussion.
for what it's worth, I'd probably take the time to write
the same things if I wasn't starting to work there, and
was working full time with it.
Guess what? I'll also be using this blog to post help
videos on Typemock, so people can learn its strength and
basic usage. If someone else did that, would it be
adverts, or just help to the community? Does it matter
as long as someone learns something?
@Casey
"mocking the unmockable is a big benefit for certain
legacy systems"
True but equally mocking something when I feel the
current design is more than adequate is also a case.
at the beginning - during my evaluation of typemock - i
was excited about the same things. i was sure that this
tool finally teaches lazy coders to write unit tests.
but i dont think that way anymore. you have to explain
to people why unit testing matters and be sure they
understood. there is no way to avoid unit testing
consciously once you know what you are getting. typemock
is nice but its definitelly not worth its price
comparing with alternatives. i would buy it for 50 bucks
because of few of its nifty features but not for the
price that it is offered now. sorry