I agree in principle, but one has to be careful, because
unit testing is definitely a programming topic, and
that's what StackOverflow is for. I agree there is a
problem, but I think it's the opposite problem - unless
there's a way to make the same question (with all it's
answers/comments etc) appear on the sites to which it's
relevant, the whole StackExchange thing will fail. Which
is a shame, because Stack Overflow is a breath a of
fresh air.
The challenge is that they can see the "opposite
problem" I'm pointing out, and because it's not possible
to surface questions in multiple sites, they're just
killing off those additional sites.
I have my fingers crossed they do the right thing.
Sensitive blogger is sensitive!
I think you just fail to understand StackExchange...
It's not a democracy. They leave a lot up to public
opinion, but it would be insanity to give over complete
control!
Seems that you are really offended by Joel and Jeff, but
I think you are right in general.
Your answers on Stack Overflow aren't your own. They're
ours (the community's) under the Creative Commons
licence. If you don't like people editing your answers,
don't post your answers on a site where they're allowed
to - simple. eh?
David - one of the reasons it will fail - people dislike
getting their stuff edited. control freaks.
"they decided that “for the good of the community” it
will be better if people couldn’t “buy” their own stack
overflow sites, but instead the community would have to
vote on them – controlfreak move #1 – WE decide for YOU
that OTHERS will decide for YOU if your idea is good or
not."
and what if no others decided for you? it may not be
such a bad idea to make sure that the site will have
users if they put it up. would you really want to have
your own little StackExchange without any other users to
answer your questions?
Yeah, SO/SE is f-ed up. I called their BS some time ago
and stopped trying to prove I'm a good programmer by
getting points on there.
I only go there nowadays when google results point me to
a SE/SO site.
Agree with your analysis 100%: Time to move on to
platforms with less a-holes, or at least less-empowered
a-holes.
"Like Wikipedia, this site is collaboratively edited,
and all edits are tracked. If you are not comfortable
with the idea of your questions and answers being edited
by other trusted users, this may not be the site for
you." --Stack Overflow FAQ
@david Steady on - I personally wouldn't want to
discourage knowledgeable people from posting answers (or
questions, for that matter) on SO. You are of course
correct, technically the content is owned by the
community. Roy may not have seen the blog posts/faq
sections that literally describe SO as being like a
wiki. Jeff actually uses the word wiki.
All I could ask Roy, is please be tolerant of those who
focus on the spelling mistakes or code formatting;
they're only trying to make SO as close to perfect as
possible. If they change the meaning of your posts then
you're right to say something, but as long as the info
people get from SO is as good as it could be, it all
comes out in the wash.
Look, the idea is simple, make serious cash on others
peoples hard work, and make them feel important at the
same time.
I rolled back the edit to your post. :)
I think SO is a wiki at heart. Like Wikipedia, its
intent is to provide the highest-quality information to
the community.
Much of the editing is on the questions. Considering the
quality of many of the new questions, this is nearly a
necessity. There are some checks and balances.
Wow, those are some strong words Roy :). But i agree
with you 100%. I still do use stackoverflow but I don't
use it as much as i used to. You think stackoverflow are
control freaks you should see their sister
site...superuser. You will see countless legitimate post
closed by the control freak god users because the
question isn't for the good of the community or the
question has been asked like 1.5 years ago while the
landscape has changed so much that the original question
/ responses aren't pertinent. If your question has
ANYTHING to do with a question that was asked before
they will close it. For example, ask a question about a
SSD drive that is very specific but someone has asked a
generic SSD question in the past and they will close
your post. Its a bunch of BS. You have some of these god
users that will stick around those sites because they
like their control, as you have most eloquently put it
this post.
SO might eventually fail, but most like not because of
this. As someone already stated, unit testing falls
under programming, so it falls under SO, same way as
there are no separate sites for e.g. Python and C++. I,
personally, prefer to go to one place to find an answer,
instead of checking multiple different places.
Developers will benefit from having all info under one
place. Splitting categories into dedicated sites would,
IMO, only be useful to people who want to become
recognized 'celebrities'/'authorities' for the specific
topic, which is fine but doesn't benefit the community.
That was my take, SO is definitely following the rather
ridid path of Slashdot. I realized that when I couldn't
even reply to a comment without points. I could add an
answer, and then refer to the comment. Ok, fair enough.
I understand the argument (I think) for merging. In
these days, we have a little more flexibility with tags
and the like to filter stuff, unlike the
comp.lang.programmer or other narrow sites, which
suffered from problems of too much detail, i.e. "your
question is about the gcc compiler, it is on
comp.lang.compiler.gcc.x86_64.etc etc, where does one
draw the line.
My question is - why does SO have the area 51, and the
whole approval process, only to yank the rug out at the
end? As pointed out here, if I follow the rules, go
through the necessary bureaucracy, fill out the
paperwork, get the signatures, I can certainly
understand Roy's frustration.
SO seems to be lacking a clearly defined policy here,
perhaps, or have the policy but haven't figured out the
nuances - still figuring itself out.
I admire is the "dialectic" process prevalent on the
Linux mailing list, where the various experts (Ingo,
Linus, etc) will put forth their thoughts, have huge
flamewars, take an immense amount of time, but somehow
it all works and carefully thought-out decisions are
made. There's a rather fascinating one recently on the
Android sleep capability, but that's just an example. Of
course, in the end, Linus exercises ultimate authority I
think, and this is Joel's site.
There are definitely some good aspects, they seem to
have borrowed a few good ideas out there, such as
Slashdot's Karma (actually, pretty typical on any answer
site), and Wikipedia. But on Wikipedia, it's understood
you are editing a collaborative document, I'm not sure
if I'm comfortable in someone editing my comments, kinda
weird. Maybe there should be a auto-generated answer,
that could be edited?
Well, Roy, maybe an opportunity for innovation? Every
time I think the *last* twist on an old communication
format has been created, whether it be a programmer
forum (Slashdot, JavaLobby, SO), or a social network
(MySpace, Facebook, Twitter, Friendster, LinkedIn),
another one comes along. So far I have not exlusively
signed on to any one site, and more often than not,
resort to going directly to the source (Snort/sourcefire
for example), but admittedly, mostly Google. Somehow
there will *never* be one single global site everybody
goes to.
I think it's generally a good site, but it does rankle a
bit when someone edits my grammar or choice of words and
substitutes something that is basically the same, but
worded the way the other person likes it. It's a waste
of time when people do that.
SO works so well because it actually does provide good
quality answers to the vast majority of questions. For
that, I am thankful!
I haven't used any of the other stack exchange sites or
followed them closely, so I don't have an opinion on
their expansion plans/choices, though.
@MrBlah bravo! :)
@Zdeslav Vojkovic agree with you
Roy, you look too much from a programming perspective.
In order to understand Joel and Jeff's moves, you should
put business thinking in equation.
Simply putted, SO like any other social network for
free, now when they have user base, is trying to get
money from it, so it is natural that in that path they
do things that their funs don't like it...
j&j have worked hard and have putted money in SO and
now they want to get some money out of it...
..and it is little too much to publicly call someone:
"control freak" etc, don't you think?
cheers
Someone had there post edited.....
While it's true that people can edit your questions and
answers, don't forget that you can always "roll-back"
any changes anyone makes to your posts.
Overall, I like the SO/SE sites. I also "committed" to
the TDD/UnitTest site that you linked to. I hope this
helps.