TestDriven.NET by Jamie Cansdale

Just because they don't offer unit testing in their Express product doesn't mean that you can't. If Microsoft won't tell you which parts you violate, screw em. If they keep giving you flak, let me know and I'll point it out on my blog. Microsoft needs to do a better job reigning in their lawyers.

Microsoft is hard at work again undoing the small good will they have managed to accumulate recently.

This seems like a Xeros machine kind of case. Technically you have never installed nor accepted VS Express EULA so I'm not sure how you could be violating something you never agreed to :) Ya, this does sound stupid.

Fight the evil empire to the last man!

Jamie,

You are always welcome to the world of open source. We have more friendly licenses.

I just don't understand how microsoft thinks it can stay relevant as long as it is abusing it users and development community. Wake up! They are your customers and allies!

Good luck,

Jack.

@Jack - GPL -- Friendly???

Whatever it is, I suggest you to seek for professional legal advice if you decided to fight. Also, put a paypal button up! We, as developers, would sponsor you bit by bit for your required legal fees :) Its good time to teach that bastard a good lesson! I always regret I don't use Java when I read all these :(

You can't win a legal fight with Microsoft. You'll probably be out of business before it even goes to court, because the legal fees will bankrupt you. In addition, your income (TestDriven.NET) will go down massively, because who wants to buy from a small company that is in a legal fight with Microsoft? No one wants to buy from a company that will be gone in a few months. Also, the intellectual property to your program is owned by your company. If you lose the fight, Microsoft might just take the IP over and shelf it away, and then you won't have access and can't use a single line of code of it anymore.

Fighting this is a huge risk for you, probably one that will cause your company and product to die. Is a fight over principles really worth that?

I would get your lawyer to send Microsoft's lawyer a letter which says that you'll sign if you get a letter stating that your product is not violating the EULA for the non-Express SKUs for VS 2005 and Orcas.

Wow, this is getting /.-style pathetic. It's illegal to install XP on a quad core machine, but I'm sure there is a registry hack to make it work (same HAL as 2003 server). Doesn't make it any more legal. Or I can turn the clock back on my sql server with the 120-day trial version, and have it work, but again - not legal, but it doesn't say in the EULA that you can't. why is this different? Just' cos the EULA - and if you didn't use the express SKU to write this, that EULA doesn't apply to you anyway - doesn't say you can't do, doesn't mean you can when it says elsewhere - eg the MS website - that you can't do it. Sorry, zero sympathy on this one. Seems like a battle which, if you win, you gain nearly nothing (I'd guess that more than 99% of your customers use non-express SKU's), and if you lose - or lawyers get involved at all - you lose fairly bigtime, financially. Having an angry (/.-style) mob behind you doesn't count for much when it comes to pay the lawyers bills :) Anyway.....

Keep in there Jamie.

I don't know how to get through past the block heads.  (I'm trying.)

I still feel MS are the good guys.  This Jason is just an anomaly (I hope).  (Talk about misleading, dishonest...)

I suggest that those who like TestDriven and haven't yet bought a license, BUY ONE NOW.  Lets support the guys who do a good job and innovate.

(Comment on Point Above:  I find GPL hostile, even if I'm prepared to lend a hand in truly worthwhile projects.)

I can see how they wouldn't want that functionality in the express edition, since it provides such a rich set of features. They are trying to make money, after all.

But that's all, and I don't like their original tone. The first set of letters you posted from them made me think (from a very fast read) that they were demanding that Testdriven.NET go away. At least they're saying that's not the case now.

IMO they should have offered to hire you - I like TestDriven.NET better than their built-in test tools anyway.

Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007 - TestDriven.NET by Jamie Cansdale " href="weblogs.asp.net/.../microsoft-vs-testdriven-net-31-may-2007.aspx"> Jamie Cansdale's problems with Microsoft are why, as much I've come

This is just nuts.

Microsoft once again missing the point and alienating even their hard core supporters.

I hope you have access to good lawyers.

The evil empire strikes again.

Maybe you shouldn't have displayed the letters without permission, but it's in your entire right to support express editions.

(maybe unless they can show some valid license term you're violating, yet that seems to be unlikely).

I do like Microsoft technology, but their lawyers are really ruining that image.

Seriously, give it up dude. If you cant understand the business case of offering Visual Studio Express and how you are in violation of their terms, then maybe you shouldn't be a developer at all.

They are right. You are wrong. Stop making this into a little man vs big company fight, the GPL-monkeys above are already gathering up on the silly-train. Suck it up and disable the possibility of installing it on Express, you will only loose from this conflict in the long run.

Who's the pot? Microsoft. Enough with the craziness over Jamie Cansdale 's excellent (read:must install

Pingback from  Ellis Web » Items of Interest: 2007-06-01

The problem is that visual studio 2007 will have its own testing solution. They are just protecting their property. Its a sad world. Once there was the NDOC project. That was also reimplemented by microsoft dudes. Now that project is more or less dead and the version from microsoft isn't that much better.

It's not like you are redistributing express, you just provide a download which has a feature like adding certain stuff to the express. Maybe you should make an EULA, that the end user is aware of the situation, and you wont hold any legal responsibility once someone installs it :) Its a lot easier to attack a single host than all the users you have!

cheers!

Pingback from  » Microsoft vs. TestDriven.NET

Pingback from  Ross Redux  » Blog Archive   » Free the TestDriven.Net one.

It's starting to look like you're refusing to comply out of spite and to see how far they'll take it. Perhaps now would be a good time to cave in? If they take you to court, they'll win.

If you want your peers to be able to continue using TD.NET with VS Express then open source it and wash your hands of it. If you want to continue 'owning' it, just drop Express support.

I don't like the way they have tried to push you around, but refusing to fix this isn't hurting Jason Weber and friends. It's only going to end up hurting you.

Pingback from  » Microsoft vs. TestDriven.NET

If you used a public API, as you said you did, you're in no violation whatsoever. You just created a toolkit which, oh how nice, also runs on vsexpress...

If microsoft doesn't want add-ins to work on Express, it's a simple piece of code, simply exclude the add-in manager. Gee, why didn't they do that... ?

As I said earlier: get a lawyer and do the things s/he says. This is a technical issue and it comes down to:

1) is the clause in the eula legit? Probably not

2) do you violate any eula clause at all, just because you wrote a generic piece of code which COULD be run as an add-in in express?

If they can't point you to a clause you violated, don't bother. But do get a lawyer, it will take time to prepare for what they're up to. They're currently trying to knock you down with lawyer-crap, which scares most people so they'll do what's been told in the letters. When you stand up to them, they suddenly have to make sure they've a solid case. We all know they don't.

IF they continue this to become a full lawsuit, the only thing they can ever win is the case itself, and it will be a shallow victory: with the lawsuit they'll lose a lot of the credits they've gained in the community.

"I don't like the way they have tried to push you around, but refusing to fix this isn't hurting Jason Weber and friends. It's only going to end up hurting you."

Trust me, it will hurt them badly. Bashing a respected member of the developer community, and that community is what MS needs BADLY, isn't going to give MS extra credit, on the contrary. Perhaps this Jason Weber isn't going to lose any sleep over it, but it's not about mr. Weber.

It's also not that the community will suddenly implode. However this case is a landmark case of how normal software written by a normal developer can suddenly be your own nightmare because some big-corp finds that it has to go. That's something we individual developers shouldn't and can't let go by, we have to do something about this, because eventually we run the risk of being in Jamie's position.

When teaching someone how to program, I can not imagine getting them to write code without unit tests.  TestDriven.Net lets unit test be done in a painless way, without it Visual Studio Express is not very useful for someone leaning how to program.  Do you wish to drive everyone that cares about unit testing to Java (with it’s free extendable tools)?

I am a developer that has worked with C# for the last few years, before that I worked with MFC and I have always been positive about Microsoft; I am also a Microsoft share holder.  However given the unreasonable way Microsoft has tied to use its unlimited legal budget to attach Jamie Cansdale I now understand way so many developers hate Microsoft.  

Is it safe for me as a developer without a large legal department to work with Microsoft technology?    (It will cost a lot more then I am paid in a month just to get a legal person to explain to me what one of the Microsoft licences means.)

"Is it safe for me as a developer without a large legal department to work with Microsoft technology?  "

Nail on the head.

In the interests of offering both sides of this, I'd like to highlight this blog post from Dan Fernandez, who is the Product Manager responsible for Visual Studio Express at Microsoft: blogs.msdn.com/.../visual-studio-express-and-testdriven-net.aspx

In summary - the Express editions are intended for hobbyists. It was an internal battle to make the case for giving away some pretty valuable tools for free. Part of the deal is that the Express editions do not allow extensibility, either technically (without working around some gaps) or legally (that's what the EULA states). You can agree or disagree with that, but you can't deny that it's the right of Microsoft to choose the terms under which a free tool like this can be used.

Hopefully both sides will be able to find a face-saving way out of this in private - Jamie, you do some good work, and it's a shame to see this turn into a public spat.

Pingback from  Microsoft vs TestDriven.Net Express - TestDriven.NET by Jamie Cansdale

I don't understand something here.  You wrote a tool that can be used in VS Express.  VS Express has a license that prohibits the users of that tool from attempting to overcome any of it's limitations:

"...you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it certain ways... You may not work around any technical limitations in the software."

So, aren't the users of VS Express that install your tool the real violators of the license agreement as written, and not the creator of the tool?  Unless, of course, you wrote your tool in VS Express.

@Frans - It is perfectly safe for me as developer, because Microsoft will spend countless hours of management time letting me know if I am in violation, long before any legal action is taken.

As someone who practices TDD, I was so happy to hear the VSTS would have a unit test runner built into...

@Joe: No it's not. Not if you do things which aren't in violation of anything, thus when you're NOT copying/cracking/doing something clearly illegal.

What then? You still obey? Then the world has become a world where corporates dictate the law. Perhaps in the US they do, but not in Europe.

Switch to Open Source. I did.

Microsoft's latest round of turning the screws (Vista, hardware requirements, licensing changes for their server products, etc.) means that I can spend almost any amount of time necessary to switch a client to Open Source, and they'll *STILL* get a ROI of a year, maybe two at the most.

So far I haven't found any CEO, CFO or CTO that can come up with a good reason to not switch.

The chances of the Apache group suing me because I wrote something cool that works with Apache are exceedingly slim.

Terry

Terry

"Is it safe for me as a developer without a large legal department to work with Microsoft technology?  "

Obviously not...

Put that paypal button up!

/Jonas

I'd say just take the whole thing down (or better yet, go talk to SharpDevelop about an add on) - if Microsoft doesn't want good people developing good things for their products, they should reap what they sow.

If you dine with the devil, prepare to be poisoned. It's hardly esoteric knowledge that Microsoft wraps everything up in legal knots and ribbons, and in using their technologies you need to be prepared.

I really hope Jamie wins this one and helps slay another tiny part of the dragon, but unfortunately I don't see it ending that way.. :( (When it comes to companies with lots of money, right rarely prevails over money.)

From "A Microsoft friend" above:

"Part of the deal is that the Express editions do not allow extensibility, either technically (without working around some gaps) or legally (that's what the EULA states). You can agree or disagree with that, but you can't deny that it's the right of Microsoft to choose the terms under which a free tool like this can be used."

That's not really true. The legality of EULAs is muddy at best, and unenforceable at worst. Microsoft should protect their software and remove elements of it that enable violations to take place.. which, curiously, Microsoft demands of Jamie (in the request to remove the registry activation technique)!

It is fair of Microsoft to not support trial versions of their products or to offer warranties for versions that have been manipulated in any way, but legally enforcing against a technique that doesn't involve reverse engineering or actual copyright infringement is disingenuous.

If Nissan, Toyota, or any other car company decided to legally threaten car modders, it would be seen as a nonsense.. and that's how a lot of us view this case. If you're just using what's on offer, then there's no argument of ethics.. so Microsoft should put up or shut up and prevent these features from being activated without reverse engineering being necessary.

Imagine General Motors attempting to limit what you can and cannot do to a car you bought from them. You bought the Vega ... no you cannot work on the engine. Ohh .. you bought the Corvette .. sure you can do anything you want to improve it.

I dont care if they offered the software for free ... it does not change the argument.

I agree.  You're not in violation of the EULA, assuming you haven't installed it on your copy of Express (and if you have, remove it to be in compliance).

This is like building a car and someone uses it to drive drunk.  It's not your fault that they broke the law.

Apple makes a mighty fine ripper for iTunes.  Are they in violation of any copyright laws?  No.  Am I?  Maybe.

It's all the user.

If you can afford to keep up this fight then please do. It wonderfully exposes Microsoft's ugly priorities and hopefully prevents new developers from wasting their career on that platform.

Microsoft technologies are always club-shaped.  Jamie, just dump 'em.  You'll be happier.

What if you terminate your EULA with VS Express, and compile the plugin with mono, or some other C# compiler?

Then you can't be in violation of an EULA you've never used. Better still, get someone else to compile it.

Silly Microsoft. They haven't realised that Eclipse, which is free, is a better development environment than Visual Studio. They still think it's 1997 and VS is 'teh biz'. It's actually pretty poor by modern standards.

It seems like this is a lot of smoke over nothing. The functionality TD.NET uses is part of a core product that is then modified to create the individual SKU's. It's possible at a technical level to take the entire unit testing framework from VS Team Edition and integrate it into VS 2005 Pro or below. Microsoft take that core product, and then license it in different ways.

The logical way to avoid objectionable license terms is to not use the product. If the license terms were unenforcable, it is likely that Microsoft simply would not have released the product and we'd all be worse off for it.

Quite why Jamie is unable to read the license document is somewhat beyond me. I found in about thirty seconds:

"You may not

 • work around any technical limitations in the software;

 • reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation;"

The inability to run addons is a purposeful limitation on Microsofts part. Jamie reverse engineered addon support from a higher level version of Visual Studio 2005 and applied that to the free product in the form of registry entries that enabled his extensions to run.

Case closed. There's no entitlement on Microsofts part to give an all-singing all-dancing product and despite popular conceptions to the contrary, something for nothing is a pipe-dream.

Do I get paid lawyers fees now?

M$: Our Legal Action letters with blot out the sun. TD: Then we shall bicker in the DARK!!

I have to agree with Steve. What this has shown is that Microsoft needs to improve their handling of these issues. They should have been clear and upfront from the start. I fully agree with Microsoft having such a clause in the EULA. This debacle is a no-brainer.

I don't believe EULAs are legally binding. I avoid reading them. I do not violate copyright laws, nor do I violate contractual obligations, but EULAs that do not require a written signature are not legal contracts. They are nothing. No large software company that makes use of EULAs wants them tested in court, because when they lose then no one would be fooled by EULAs any more. Everyone would know they are meaningless. This looks like a job for Groklaw...

This morning, when following links to Jamie Cansdale's ongoing tiff with Microsoft (best of luck

"Quite why Jamie is unable to read the license document is somewhat beyond me. I found in about thirty seconds" However any reasonable person who thinks about that clause for more than 30 seconds will realise that it is meaningless. Perhaps if the EULA enumerated the specific deliberate limitations then the clause might have some meaning. It is in just about every MS product EULA BTW. For example, it is in the Vista EULA. So any developer that writes a driver for Vista (for hardware not supported out-of-the-box) is "working around a technical limitation". Only if MS decides it is so I suppose. I work around technical limitations in software every day. I'm happy to not be an MS developer.

Let us try to get this straight. 1) He created something that extends a product of theirs, adding functionally, and making easier and better to use. Q) Why shoot yourself in the foot by pissing off the very people you want to by and use your product? 2) The EULA specifically states, 'Technical Limitations', which implies he would have to alter the product in order for it work. He did not alter the product or work around it's limitations because he used publicly available and documented routines made for .NET's usage by Microsoft. Q) Why is this wrong? Does Microsoft plan on releasing their own testing module and so make this one obsolete? Patent infringement next? 3) What if he simply goes to an Open Source product and write your TestDriven.NET EXCLUSIVELY for non-Microsoft products and encourages his users to abandon Express all together? 4) EULA... Would you like to rent, not buy, that next car of yours? Careful... Altering the windows or radio is a violation and you will be sued. Alright I know this a little extreme and I understand the basic need for EULA to prevent wide-spread cost-free spread of a product. We live in a Capitalist society and when the end comes, we only really worry about Money. But until SOMEONE stands up to a Goliath and gets some LAWS written SPECIFICALLY governing the legality of a EULA and what rights it can and cannot dismiss, this type of thing will continue. Q) Who actually reads that stuff? A) Lawyers... And not 90% of End Users. Most of us, myself included, use Microsoft for one particular reason. They are what is most widely available for end users. If Microsoft wishes to remain competitive then they need to learn a new methodology. This one is only going to push more and more people AWAY from them. They already have a BAD name when it comes to dealing with patents, rights of end users, and heaven knows their lack of innovation. I think we are seeing the end of Microsoft as we know it. The 'Early' years of any large software company is fueled entirely by momentum of a particular project. In this case an Operating System. Microsoft 'stole' a lot of aspects and pieces of technology and produced a familiar and fairly idiot-styled 'point and click' user interface. Improving that has been their number one method of market share aquisition followed closely by their forays into Consoles and Games and of course, the renown Office Suite, which is their second largest Cash Cow. However as they have grown, true innovation in terms of functionally and clean code have nearly completely stalled. OsX and Linux (generally speaking) out preform Windows XP and even Vista while providing nearly limitless upgrade potential for next to no cost. Why? Is it that Linux and OSX are just that much better? Not entirely. It has a lot to do with the fact that Microsoft has lost it's focus on producing a QUALITY operating system. Gone are the days when Microsoft had to FIGHT to prove itself a valuable commodity. They simply can hire lawyers to bicker the company with lawsuits or slap them with patent infringement allegations until the lesser company folds under the pressure of Microsoft's money. Visiting Microsoft.com and you will see the prices for purchasing Visual Studio is prohibitively expensive for any starting business. The ones most likely to use the Express version and the ones most likely to upgrade later. To me, this pattern of more money for less end result is going to run Microsoft into the ground... But what was Bill care? He's made his billions. In the end, I hope that Jamie does not bow down to the congeries of legal pressure by this Goliath that is destined to Fall. I myself would gladly offer donations and any support I can.

Jamie, I cannot possibly see how you are in any way breaking the law. MS is bullying you because they have a problem with the value you are adding for the Express package. Hang in there.

The fact that Microsoft took a while to pinpoint to you which term you may be in breach of is immaterial. In fact they could have just started with the first letter. Also nothing in the email trail appears to prejudice their case. You accepted the terms and the terms preclude workarounds of any technical limitations. Not sure though if "workaround" includes extensions. However your extension appears to be predicated on a workaround. The argument that the workaround is based on a published API (that is not a hack) is also immaterial. I would just remove the support of Express from your product and let your customers know that them re-enabling your extension in Express may breach MS terms. Not sure you have to physically take away the code though; but just disable it to the extent that MS disables it's code. A disabled code piece is not a workaround or extension. Once you have complied to avert legal action, you may want to seek advice and consider legal action against MS and ask for damages. Your case may hinge on what happened before you re-enabled support for Express. the above is non-expert opinion only.

Wow, you seem so in the wrong it's hard to express. I know MS is evil and all, but give me a break, that doesn't make you a saint. You _sell_ an extension to a free version of an MS product. They ask you to stop. You make a public stink because MS is a big evil company, and won't give you help understanding how they'll try to enforce the very obvious intention around the express sku. Now some open source people leap to your support, egging you on to fight the Man! Cool ... but you are selling an add on in a comercial ecosystem. And what you are doing is deciding to piss in the well. Is your goal to get rid of the express SKU? Open source people love it because they don't like our community, but you won't get any kudos from me. Open source guys ... why are defending this guy? Would he be in the right if the agreement he was violating was the GPL, but it still made Microsoft look bad? Maybe there is something I don't understand about this disagreement. But your side just doesn't seem compelling to me.

Give in, Jamie. Kneel before great Microsoft and they may yet forgive you. Repent of your hideous sins and find redemption. Maybe they will buy you out. Maybe they will restore to you the privilege of adding value to their products for nothing. Don't listen to the open source people. They just want to use your code to violate Microsoft IP. First the Linux nerds, now you. What's a poor multibilliondollar monopoly supposed to do?

The car modder comments above are dumb. Ford and GM don't give something away. The same people that think this is ok are the same people who buy mods to get free channels on satellite or cable. Its technically possible, oh...lets find that in the eula. You know its wrong, don't BS. Lastly, its just a matter of time before open source projects run into this very same problem of people not adhering to the spirit of of the license. Just wait.

@Steve -- hate to say it but you're completely wrong. "You may not • work around any technical limitations in the software; • reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation;" This clause completely doesn't apply. "work around any *technical* limitations in the software" well, there weren't any technical limitations, only legal ones. The api's were still there, still public, and the code still worked as documented and published. "reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble" -- again, doesn't apply. He didn't reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble. He simply used public api's. That's what they are there for. Again, it's not his problem that MS didn't take the time to actually remove functionality they didn't want used. It's still shipped/documented/available...

According to the latest update from the MS guy, TestDriven.NET injects itself into VS Express's process after it's running. Now, ___if___ that is true, then yeah it surely sounds like 'working around a technical limitation' to me. I love TestDriven.NET and would really hate to see anything happen to it. Please disable the Express functionality!

In addition, the language used in the clause 'You may not work around any technical limitations in the software.' is vague in it's meaning and applicability. Does this mean that I cannot follow any work arounds provided for bugs in visual studio? What is the context that this applies.

Your a moron (in 20/20 hindsight, not in reality) for helping Microsoft improve their software with your add-ons. Why bother with a company that obviously is happy to fuck you over when you _might_ mess up their happy multilevel licensing/pricing scemes? Screw them. How much abuse do you want to put up with? There was a time when Visual Studio was the only game in town. When it was the only reasonable feature-complete IDE in town, but that is not true anymore. What about http://www.eclipse.org/ ? Open source, cross platform, multiple language IDE _framework_. Licenses allow you to be commercial open source, freeware closed source, or whatever the hell you want. You call the shots, not some corporation's lawyers. Plus there are even add-ons for C# and whatnot, so it's not like you'd be leaving your current users out in the cold if they don't mind following you. I am no developer or anything and it's totally up to you, whatever you want. But maybe it is something worth considuring, isn't it?

Why the shit won't you post your communication to Microsoft. It appears from Microsoft's legal documentat that you responded to them. You have to post everything if you want credability. It looks like you're making a lot of this crap up. Go look at the JavaLobby discussion on this. Even those guys are starting to attack you.

My understanding Jamie released a version of his product that just happens to work with Express. He didn't do any special reverse-engineering; if MS doesn't want add-ins enabled in Express, why don't they just disable add-in integration? Unless Jamie wrote special code to make this work with Express, I don't see how this is his problem.

Wouldnt making testdriven.net free for Express solve the problem microsoft has. Just release a separate edition which is free and runs only on VS Express. Having read all the emails it looks like their main problem is that customers that have addons are complaining why they cant sell their products for Express. If TD.net is free for express I believe the problem will dissapear.

Unbelievable the idiocy I see in these comments... The EULA is *not* ambiguous. Have any of you read it? As for being enforceable, that's up to the courts, yes? For those of you stating that it is un-enforceable, sorry but unless you are a legal expert in the s/w world, your opinion carries zero weight. I have read through the email exchanges, and the EULA, I have to say that Microsoft's responses come across as measured, respectful, and accommodating. Jamie comes across as a petulant brat: what are you going to give me if I decide to take my bits down? And for those of you who are coming here and suggesting that Jamie and others refuse to play the game and come over to the "good guys" (AKA open source)... if your intent is to avoid anyone that might potentially threaten legal action - then I certainly hope that you are prepared to shy away from any business arrangement that requires a contract. Good luck with that. Big boy rules apply here; if you don't like it, clear the court...

First of all, charging for developer tools at all is really bloody stupid on MSFT's part. Secondly, Apple has included unit testing tools in Xcode since Tiger shipped (April, 2005). Does the fact that your product fills a gaping hole in their development environment piss them off or something? Tell you what: why don't you just tell MSFT to go to hell, and focus your future development efforts on the Mac or Linux, where you don't have to contend with a hostile platform vendor?

Windows Live Writer with Spelling Launcher can be downloaded here (13k). I too, like Oren, found that

According to the Olswang web-site (the MS mercenaries here) their slogan is "The best way to solve a problem is with an open mind". Perhaps _this_ is what they should advise their client. Legalities are, unfortunately, not about (moral) right or wrong, but trying to diminish the value of VS Express is in my opinion not even in Microsofts best interest. TDD is taught everywhere, and trying to exclude the Express users will only drive the students and hobbyists that the Express SKU caters for into the Java camp.

Can you read at http://www.secretgeek.net/testdrivengate.asp to see what Jason tells that Jamie must said If you were Jamie, what do you think ???

I was sad to hear of Microsoft’s lawyers attacking you. The average developer does not have the kind of legal expertise to navigate through complicated licenses and my gut feeling has been expressed by many above: you’re ok, except I think add something to your license so users know that they may be in violation of the license if they install with VS Express. This alone won’t necessary help if Microsoft persists. It’s of course Microsoft’s right to specify their own license terms but in this case due to VS’s pervasiveness as a development platform and the fact that the product in general is for developers, I believe a strong case can be made that at least Microsoft needs to write a clearer license agreement. I love using Visual Studio and I just don’t see how Microsoft is helping itself by creating bad feelings among its core developer community. We are at a stage when developers have a real pressure to follow the open source community – the pressure is real and Microsoft risks loosing a hold on a core supporting constituency. Now Google is starting to put development tools on the PC and with their championing of open source technologies (eg inviting the hero Linus to speak to them), it’s a no brainer that developers will start moving towards Google. Once that happens Microsoft will be in serious danger – the problems from competing in search will pale in comparison to loosing the developer support to Google. So now we see Microsoft bashing a decent developer like Jamie and that just isn’t right.

   Jamie, my advice for you is to try and raise your concerns with some key managers at Microsoft because I’m seeing evidence that the giant may have communication problems within the organization. The managers of several Microsoft products seem like decent guys so it’s possible they have no idea what the legal team is doing. Try and ask a renowned lawyer with experience in these kind of cases to do the case pro bono. If not, do not fight them with your own resources but re-strategize – invest those resources in improving the product or starting a new one. In any case, the kind of users seriously interested in good unit testing tools will purchase VS professional edition so just re-focus on improving the service to your core market.

Firstly, everybody needs to stop saying that "the lawyers" are doing this.  The lawyers don't blink their eyes without management approval.  This whole spat is a decision made by M$ management.  Blaming the lawyers ro this is like blaming the foot soldiers for the war.

Next, I also agree that it's the Jamie and the TD.NET user's own damn fault for getting into bed with M$.  If you use .NET and the VS tools, you have halfway sold your soul.  If you don't want to kneel down and kiss Billy's ring, then you don't be trying to add value to his product line.

Jamie,

It may hurt you to do this, and I'm sure you're proud of the work you've done on testdriven.net, but I would strongly urge you to let Microsoft have their way and abandon this product.

I would further advise you to get a Mac, pick up a copy of Aaron Hillegass's excellent introductory text on Cocoa programming, and abandon .NET.  Once you've spent a week or so with Cocoa, you'll see just how badly Microsoft fell short of the system they were trying to copy.

-jcr

<p>I quote "a Microsoft Friend" above:</p>

<p>"...you can't deny that it's the right of Microsoft to choose the

terms under which a free tool like this can be used." </p>

<p>I have one objection to the statement above. The tool is not free! As

a matter of fact, the tool is very costly as we can see in what's

happening here. </p>

<p>Every developer out there drinking the Microsoft cool-aid should ask

him/herself these two questions: "Can I afford to drop years of work

down the drain on a Microsoft's whim?" and "Can I afford to pursue legal measures

against Microsoft to protect my work?"</p>

<p>For the independent developer the answer is obvious: No!</p>

<p>Go develop

with Python on Linux or with Ruby on the Mac. Divorce

Microsoft. Seriously!

<a href="http://afreshcup.com" >Other people are already doing it.</a>

You at least won't have to put up with this kind of rubbish.</p>

At the end of the day, I bet their goal is to  bring you in and extend the functionality of Visual Studio.  Give you a fancy title, a 90k+/yr job, so they can ship 100k more units based on your ideas and concepts.  Ideas and concepts that are worth $10M+ in revenue.

MSFT did this with Sun, RealNetworks, Apple, IBM, SAP, and the entire Partner Program too.  Beware!

Somehow i hope you'd either :

- License under GPL or similar (Creativ Commons), the public can be your witness then ...

- Ask Microsoft a whole lot of money for providing additional functionality to their beloved Visual Studio, after of course making enough legal protections to make any girls nipples harder then a rock ... in fact right now they're about to make you suck something that belongs to them ...

- Start using a different C/C++ development platform

Pingback from  Hlynes.com &raquo; The Perils of Propriatary Software

It looks like your heart is in the right place Jamie. :)

Microsoft (or more appropriate, those who represent Microsoft) could have been clear from the start. Why weren't they!!??

Clarity from Microsoft would have made this situation easy to resolve. You showed them respect and dedication and they showed you how much they value their customers.

Did Jamie sign or click through an Express EULA? If no, then just ignore the MSFT letters. There is no agreement or licence. Second, did he violate the EULA? No? Then just let them fire off more paper. He can always just refuse to attend any court hearing: unless they take a case in the UK, they have no power over him. Finally, the issue is not with Jamie, but with his limited company. Even if they win a judgement, and even if they are able to enforce it in the UK courts, what does that get them? A slice of nothing, especially if in the meantime the company goes over to a LGPL licence for the software and then goes into voluntary liquidation. This reminds me so much of the McLibel trial, even if they win they lose.

Good luck mate, reading the correspondance it looks like you've been more than reasonable throughout but Microsoft have just kept responding with the line "you're not allowed to do it, don't ask us why, you're just not".

Exactly the same happened to me when I got in touch with MS to find out if I could run XP Pro OEM under a virtual machine on Linux.  XP's licenced for one computer so I'm still running it on that computer, but I'm running vmware too.

MS constantly stated that I was not allowed to do this, and that it would be in violation of the EULA.  However despite constant pressing they would never mention any specific part of the EULA I was in violation of, and reading the EULA myself I could see nothing.

It looks like the same thing's happening here.  An oversight on their part allows you to do something they don't want to happen, and they're doing their best to stop it, although you are completely within your rights.

If this was in violation of a licence agreement I'd have expected them to simply quote the relevant lines and explain why you're not allowed to do it.  Instead they ignore that part of the question and just repeat the statement that you're not allowed, without making any attempt to back it up.  When that fails they resort to threatening with their lawyers, again without any definate statement as to exactly what clause you are violating.

In my eyes that's a pretty sure sign that they have no standing to back that up.

I hope you have great legal representation because all of your correspondence leading up to your court case doesn't mean squat (no matter how hard you sell it to us).  Only you and your attorney (and M$) actually know whether or not you are violating the EULA.

You do realize M$ is basically a Govt agency now, controlling a global macro-economy?  You do realize M$ works with a special Govt branch that watches to make sure M$ practice is not violating people like you.  

Yes, jasonweber is a jerkoff, but most of them are at M$ and you need accept it and move on.  The jasonwebers tend to survive @ M$ and the Jamie Cansdales don't. I know. I was a rebel at M$ when they wanted rebels.  I finally got pushed out by the jasonwebers.

You obviously want MVP status.  You are (were?) in, man, why are you *throwing it all away* to please a select few who use Express?  Just do what M$ wants and make some damn money.  Live the dream.

The internet is on your side Jamie. Don't take microsofts bullshit.

Microsoft once was a great company. But they missed the Internet boat and now find themselves struggling to maintain revenue. For us old-timers, it's similar to what happened with IBM a couple of decades ago, when they missed the PC boat.

IBM could have crashed and burned, but managed to re-invent itself. But there was a decade or so that you just didn't want to do business with them.

That's now Microsoft. Either Microsoft will die a gory, drawn-out death, or they will struggle for years and re-emerge. Whichever happens, right now they aren't healthy to be around. Anyone who can avoid them in the next several years absolutely should.

Saw your post on Markle's blog. Been watching to see how you respond. I notice that my posting to your website <i>still<i> isn't available. Accidentally lost in the volume? Please make sure this one doesn't get lost.

I've been working on VSIP packages since 2001 and it's not hard to see what you're doing. You created a COM based Solution Extender that gets instantiated by the shell with an interface that allows you to determine the site process and start calling VSIP API's. The trust bound shell architecture means that if you can load code you can call other people's services but that doesn't mean it's right. I'm not going to use the word illegal because I don't know or care. My point is if I leave my keys on the counter you don't have the right to come into my house and take the keys and use my car without permission. We publish services to communicate between our packages and you could easily find our services but if you start using them we would have you in court so I understand where MS is coming from.

The VSIP API's have always been restricted and come with an army of MS lawyers and business managers selling packages. We know because we're just down the street from MS and hear them coming. You have to sign an agreement when you get the VSIP SDK even for the new free SDK. I'm not defending MS's license approach for the VSIP API but I'm stating the cold hard truth. When you use VSIP you have to play by the rules. The code you posted for Jason Weber shows you using VSIP which is not the public add-in API you claim.

Good luck with this train wreck and please stop pretending to be a poor innocent unknowing save the world developer. You're a creative individual who dug around until you found a way to circumvent the shells dll load to get at VSIP. You deserve lots of credit for being smart and doing good work. But you're not above the rules.

Cheers, Rich

Jamie what you doing, is in my opinion, great. You are showing strength against monster MS. Don't give up and I'll build an altar for you!

We must set up a fund to finance your legal fees!

Pingback from  Counterjumper &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo; Microsoft vs. Jamie Cansdale

Have fun and hold on tight, you're in for an even bigger ride then last year.

There are two reasons Microsoft could believe you're in violation: 1. you are developing a commercial product *using* Microsoft Visual Express 2. you are developing a commercial product *for* Microsoft Visual Express In the first case, you will have accepted an EULA that says what you can use an Express edition for, and it probably forbids commercial use. In that case you would be clearly in the wrong. In the second case, I don't see how Microsoft can limit your legal right to release your own software. Perhaps there is something nasty in the EULA for the Standard, Professional, and Enterprise editions as well? The peeple here who briefly say Microsoft is in the right haven't pointed to the relevant section of the license agreement to prove their point.

Reading the email string seems like MS has some questions they never answered. How is the 1000 person manger unable to find explicit clauses in the License terms? The condescending attitudes especially at the beginning are really insulting. If this is what the developers think of us, VS users, perhaps we should be somewhere else and they can find another job insulting users. I look forward to a positive outcome for everyone. This issue has garnered way more attention than MS considered. Maybe that 10,000 person manager will get involved. Good luck, man!

Jamie, As someone who's been in a similar position to you and after reading all the correspondence I really think you ought to back down. You're not going to win. You'll end up having to pay both yours and their lawyer fees plus damages, then Microsoft will never speak to you again. So my best advice would be to drop the Express support and send them an apology to try and make up. Even if you could win, you'll still end up with a broken relationship. Its just not worth it mate..

I think there are a number of people who want to contribute money for

the legal fees.  Someone suggested you put up a PayPal button for

that purpose.  You may want to put one up.

That said, you have to figure out how much of your life, your time, your money, your brainshare you want to tie up in this and whether you want

to continue to make a tool that supports the cause of those who

persecute you.

Cheers,

Matthew

From reading several letters, is the issue not that your providing an extension for a product which is not intended to be extended ?

"Perhaps you could

take into account the contributions I didn't make as well as the ones

I did"

Absolute gold! Stick it to em!

Hang in there mate. The crazy thing is that your work is actually adding value to something Microsoft is selling. Yes, they might be giving the cut-down version away for free, but the whole idea is to use it as a hook to encourage people to buy the complete package.

Pingback from  The Programming and Management Blog &raquo; Support TestDriven.NET against Microsoft

I don't understand how you can be expected to comply with the terms of the Express SKU when you (presumably) aren't even compiling the code with the Express SKU.

Couldn't you just build the tool with free code.  Wouldn't that make any irritation MS have completely irrelevant, or is it impossible to create these extensions without using Microsoft tools?

It appears most people don't understand what the value is that MS gets from their devel tools.  It is NOT the licensing fees for the development tools.

It is the increased sales and lock-in to their OS, Office, and server products made possible by thousands of developers using their free and good devel tools.  This attack dog legal strategy over the express skus is shooting themselves in the foot!

A Qt style licensing strategy would probably be   close to optimal.

When once dealing with Americans and their lawyers I was once advised to in my replies deny every allegation they made in their letters unless I agreed with them, and to every time clearly restate my position. Leaving an allegation unchallenged is apparently pounced on by Americans as a supposed acceptance. It might also be good to ensure you have no ties to America that Microsoft can use to claim that the American courts have jurisdiction over you in case they feel like suing you...

Jamie, remember that it's the owners responsibility to pursue legal action. Even if license says that you cannot make extensions they might allow all other extensions except your's. If you legally have to take down your extension it does not mean Microsoft will force all others too.

Basically, they have the right to tell you what to make of your add-on for their product.

4pm has come and gone... any more visits from couriers?

Joe Stagner has, as always, an interesting take on the issue:

blogs.msdn.com/.../the-register-technology-s-national-enquirer.aspx

so, the date (and time?) have passed now (atleast for us UKers :p ) any update from ms?

Go tell that Weber guy to suck his own balls and not that of any EU citizens.

Jamie,

Good luck with your stand.  Bear in mind some retreats are by no means a defeat.  They just buy you time to regroup and counter-attack.

My suggestion, bin MS .NET and start learning Java.

Sorry about my last comment i meant swap to Linux and GPL. Those communities will embrace good programmers.

Now you understand, after 16 years of working with Microsoft software and developers 2 yrs ago I was deemed too old fashioned for the Vista Age. I was dumped and now I'm back in school at the young age of 45, only this time its all UNIX/Linux and open source. I'm too old to be starting fresh but Microsoft and they're supporters could care less. Good luck my friend, your gonna need it.

Post a Paypal button!

This is one of many reasons a lot of developers are getting jaded with closed source software encumbered with insane licensing agreements that no one can fully understand or even agree on (Ask four lawyers what a given license agreement means and you'll see what I mean.)

Sorry to see you're having this kind of trouble even though it's about par for the course for Microsoft.

Exactly why i moved to Apple! I can't stand MS and its Bulls**t!!

Keep fighting Jamie!

@David Moore: Apple wouldn't mind doing this sort of thing either, but they won't because they simply can't afford to lose their already small user-base.

Microsoft obviously doesn't think it needs the respect of its customers (and even developers from what I can see!).

They are taking far too much for granted.

I hope you pull through this Jamie, developers don't need this sort of crap hindering progress.

I hope this teaches Microsoft a well-deserved lesson.

Don't give up, and most importantly, get as much press as you can.  I'm sure the good folks at Security Now would be more than happy to interview you.

www.grc.com/securitynow.htm

1) Could not locate Visual Studio Express specific End-User License Agreement (EULA) on Microsoft website. I did found a generic Visual Studio EULA and more specific for Professional and Academic versions. All software should allow the user to view EULA prior to any purchase, download or install.

2) Any product created/shipping using software that has restricted EULA must also include reference to the applicable MS EULA. (Software created using VS Express needs the MS VS Express EULA referenced and agreed to).

3) The MS documentation of product limitations is not referenced by any MS EULA. Any MS comment about limitations not mentioned in the EULA is not legally part of the EULA. Does it work in reverse: that MS documentation that appears to permit breaking previous limitations legally permits said or similar action ?

4) System registry could be classified as not part of the software code and has no implied trademark or copyright. When does it become copyright?

5) Functionality was hidden and not disabled or removed by MS. Is it our fault the MS programmers were lazy or had a design conflict ? When does a limitation become legal: by implementation or just by intention ?

6) EULA did not restrict the user from editing or adding to the registry entries that it created.

7) Does previous correspondence and honours from MS legally imply permission ? Was any implied permission permanent or temporary ?

8) Didn’t know a lawyer could pre-judge a claim and insist you act as if their claim had been proven in a court of law.

9) Is a software bug or missing dialog option now a design limitation that should not be given a workaround ??? Look at how many registry hacks there are for the Windows OS either by manual edit or by using a tool (MS or 3rd party).

10) I got this close I had to make a 10... Microsoft legal’s know you don’t have a lot of money to compete with what they can spend and how far (with appeals) they can take it. Any anti-Microsoft fan or organisation is probably welcome to offer support (eg. financial) to help challenge MS legal actions (and hopefully block them).

Today Microsoft kindly extended my deadline by 24 hours so that I could further consult my lawyers. So

See if the eula violates the laws of your country, if it does the eula is invalid.

Hello Jamie

All though your intentions where good and you have created an excellent program, that makes the program much more user friendly and enhances its functionailty the original idea still came from "Visiual Studio". Owned, licened and trademarked by Microsoft Corperation.

If it wasn't for their original program in the beginning you would'nt have developed TestDriven.Net which is based on the same principles.

Yes your program offers more scalibility and maybe Microsoft should purchase your Hack's as a resolution to incorperate with their original plan. But assuming a gung ho atitutude over licensing issues that your bound to loose will be a costly one.

Microsoft Corperation has already taken provisions to ensure their tradmarks, licenses and products are heavily protected from cases just like this one.

So what makes you think - you can even stand a chance let alone a case to defend your rights in court. I would not listen to the others that have commented on this very topic telling you to take them to the mate, even with donation base support this can end up costing you millions, and they could even file suite for damages or lost revenue of their Visual Studio program due to your hacks, which alone can have a great bearing on a case of this magnatude.

Now Microsoft Corperation, filling legal suite is nothing to take lightly and I'am sure your not, but others commenting should consider the following – would you your self put up a fight for something of this nature?

I like other programmers here would like to see nothing more then the little guy winning against this corperate giant.  But in all reality Microsoft is a multi million dollar Franchise Word Wide!

The cost and expense alone could bary you for years, destroying your reputation and singling you out as an outcast with major corperations where your talents can be trully used.

Remember if you loose – which is a very high probability; the end results is the same, some corperations or development groups will not deal with you for threat of the same thing happening to them and its your name and reputation that you can end up loosing.

It is very sad that it has come to this, but its wiser to maybe consider their offer.

Jamie,

The last comment seems like it's from someone from Microsoft, and they're trying to convince you to give in. :D

I guess they also know that it costs a lot of money and wastes a lot of time to go to court, and they're still not sure if they'll win. If you give in, they win.

I read your e-mail conversation with Microsoft carefully.

You can't agree on giving up the integration on the one hand and behave the other way round some days later.

If I were Microsoft, I would have reacted the same way!

You will surly not win that process on curt!

Keep on fighting the good fight, Jamie. I already was very sad when you first had to remove the Express support because I had to change all tutorials for my Rocket Commander game. Now in my book I had to tell the users how to do it in VS 2005 and implement an alternate way for Express. Your plugin just helps everyone, this whole argument is really stupid. Other plugins or external tools run fine too with Express (most don't however), no one cares for them.

Pingback from  Echoes of Microsoft &raquo; Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007

Pingback from  lawyer &raquo; Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Toolsfactory releases Doc-O-Matic 6 toolsfactory has announced the release of

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Cross Site Authentication and Data Transfer     In this article Tom

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Turn Me Up: an attempt to end the loudness wars

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  WPF in the eyes of a beginner  As a programmer

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  WPF in the eyes of a beginner  As a programmer

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Power the absurdities of Davos.&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8230; Another thing about Davos

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  How do i Password protect all my asp.net pages on

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  ActiveState ships ActiveTcl 8.5 ActiveState has announced the release of

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Information Card encryption and being an auditing STS. When I

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Adding text to Slideshow script for images    Greetings, I&#8217;m not

Pingback from  Johan; thinking out loud. &raquo; Microsoft vs. TestDriven.NET

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Welcome Jean-Marc! Somewhat belatedly, I wanted to welcome the latest

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  BREDEX releases GUIdancer version 2.1 Version 2.1 of GUIdancer, BREDEX

FU MICROSOFT  !!! FU!!!

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Parallel Extensions June CTP is out Following the first ever

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  About Lamp    Wheather LAMP is Server like Wamp or it

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Join us for technical dive into Microsoft Virtualisation Management technologies

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Utilizing your .NET projects Automated Acceptance Tests on Crystal Reports

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  help please login problem this time    help please once again&#8230;

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  .NET Exception Handling By Edward G. Nilges This article presents

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Don&#8217;t fall for SPAM - phishing email about CNN.com email

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Updating to Visual Studio 2008 SP1 If you have Visual

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Here&#8217;s Your Chance to Hack Into openSUSE Linux  Are you

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  want to insert the image background    i want to keep

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  WPF V3.5 Sp1 and Effects - A Bit of an

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Help with database queries    Hi, I&#8217;m selecting a list of

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Integrity Testing for Software Professionals By Donna L. Davis Before

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007I have just received

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Powerful Adaptive Streaming Technology - IIS 7 SmoothHD.com is an

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Today == FAIL So I can into work today all

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Tech Ed EMEA 2008 The countdown begins The countdown timer

Pingback from  Developer News  &raquo; Blog Archive   &raquo;  Uploading Files!!!    Hai , I am trying to upload a

To be both a speaker of words and a doer of deeds.

-----------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------

"Come on dude, these facts* and proof* i mean who is posting* lol :P"

-----------------------------------------------------------

You are a quite smart person!

"Well it feels like this web site is somewhat scorching, congratulations on the proprietor! I attempt to learn as a lot as feasible on the web when I have additional time. Unfortunatley it  is beginning being the norm for men and women to invest all working day within the world-wide-web rather than of basically dwelling, what a shame. All the same, continue with all the beneficial  composing anyhow..<br>.leastwise the flocks can have option content to feed thier dying minds. Quite possibly its very best off, the frequent men and women arn't very smart at any  price."

--------------------------------------------------------------------  

I have a <a href="ericsreviews.com/">video camera reviews</a> Website,i love him.Mania !You are welcome to look!

Hello! I love watching football and I loved your blog as well.

hywktmsxnkk jh kcmy

I adore your wp internet template, where did you get a hold of it?

Really educating weblog, bookmarked the site in interest to see a lot more!

I really liked the article, and the very cool blog

La idea admirable      

http://www.shampes.com/      

evil1

bzfjhxlilypzu forum.ltkill.com/index.php

Garimmormabon     [url=www.fibergenixsuris.com]hogan[/url]

Garimmormabon     [url=www.fibergenixsuris.com]outlet hogan[/url]

Garimmormabon     [url=www.fibergenixsuris.com]hogan interactive[/url]

www.sjk-j.com/.../yybbs.cgi

Plergeurgerty [url=www.hogan-scarpe-outlet.org]hogan[/url]

lourlSavaDral   [url=http://www.hogan-scar-pe.com]scarpe hogan[/url]

lourlSavaDral   [url=http://www.hogan-scar-pe.com]sito hogan[/url]

reryordederty   [url=www.mulberry-factory-shops.com]mulberry bag[/url]

cPzcfxNein http://healthworkout.info/

I don't even know what to say, this made thngis so much easier!

Yrox http://guccisale.ucoz.com/

Bskx http://chanelbelt.ucoz.com/

Uhlv guccibagssale.blinkweb.com

michaelskors.blinkweb.com

Cjmv guccioutlet-usa.ucoz.com

Iuiv guccidufflebag.ucoz.com

Ipad guccibagssale.blinkweb.com

[url=www.marcjacobshandbagssale.us]handbags marc jacobs[/url]

DSGASDGSADGSDGASD  QWERADFHGDAFXZCBZX

YUYSDGSADGXZCBZX  ERYERADFGASDGADFHGAD

GJTRSDGSADDSFGHADS  ASFDADFGASDGADFHAD

YUKYADFHGDAFXZCBZX  GJTRSDGSADASDGHASD

DSGASDGSADGADFHGAD  FGBNFSDGSADASDFHGAD

SDGSDZSDGASDDFHAD ADFHGSDGSADSDFH

QWERSDGSADADFHAD FGBNFSDGSADGASDFHGAD

QWERADFGASDGASDFHGAD GJTRSDGSADSDAFHSAD

DSGAADFHGDAFSDFH  FGBNFSDGSADSDFH

FGBNFADFHGDAFXZCBZX  ASFDSDGSADDFHAD

QWERZSDGASDADFHAD  SDGSDZSDGASDADFHGAD

ZVXZSDGSADDSFGHADS  YUYSDGSADSDGASD

I ended up being looking at a few old Japan

Yu-Gi-Oh cards and i also came across a set of promo cards installed out

in 1998 that features clips through the original Yu-Gi-Oh

present (what some phone season 0) i read that they can were introduced by company

named Amada (not people who have been released by simply Bandai) I became wondering if these cards are generally legit or fake?

GJTRADFHGDAFASDGHASD  YUKYZSDGASDDSFGHADS

ZVXZSDGSADADFHGAD  ASFDADFHGDAFADFHAD

ZVXZZSDGASDASDFHGAD  ZVXZADFHGDAFASDGHASD

ZVXZZSDGASDADSFHGADFS  ZVXZASDGASDXZCBZX

FGBNFSDGSADASDGHASD  SDGSDSDGSADDSFGHADS

ZVXZSDGSADADSFHGADFS GJTRSDGSADDSFGHADS

GJTRADFHGDAFXZCBZX QWERADFHGDAFADFHGAD

FGBNFSDGSADADFHGAD GJTRADFGASDGADSFHGADFS

ASFDSDGSADADSFHGADFS  ADFHGADFGASDGSDFH

ASFDSDGSADDSFGHADS  YUYSDGSADASDFHGAD

YUYSDGSADSDGASD  GJTRSDGSADGDFHAD

FGBNFADFGASDGASDGHASD  DSGASDGSADGXZCBZX

ZVXZSDGSADDSFGHADS  DSGAADFHGDAFDFHAD

GJTRADFHGDAFASDGHASD  FGBNFSDGSADADFHGAD

GJTRZSDGASDASDFHGAD  DSGAADFHGDAFSDFH

GJTRSDGSADASDGHASD  ERYERASDGASDADFHGAD

ADFHGSDGSADDSFGHADS  SDGSDASDGASDADSFHGADFS

YUYASDGASDDFHAD  ADFHGADFGASDGSDFH

ADFHGASDGASDXZCBZX  YUYADFGASDGXZCBZX

ASFDSDGSADGSDFH  QWERSDGSADGXZCBZX

ZVXZZSDGASDADFHGAD  ZVXZSDGSADASDGHASD

SDGSDASDGASDADSFHGADFS  FGBNFASDGASDDSFGHADS

SDGSDSDGSADGSDFH  ADFHGZSDGASDASDFHGAD

YUKYSDGSADADFHAD  ZVXZADFGASDGASDGHASD

GJTRSDGSADGSDAFHSAD  GJTRSDGSADADSFHGADFS

ERYERSDGSADSDGASD YUKYSDGSADDFHAD

ERYERZSDGASDXZCBZX DSGASDGSADXZCBZX

ADFHGADFHGDAFDSFGHADS DSGASDGSADSDAFHSAD

[url=http://www.pugster.com][b]saasadsd[/b][/url]

ERYERADFGASDGADFHAD  FGBNFSDGSADDSFGHADS

YUKYSDGSADADFHGAD  YUKYSDGSADASDGHASD

FGBNFSDGSADSDFH  ERYERZSDGASDSDFH

YUYSDGSADSDAFHSAD  ADFHGZSDGASDSDFH

[url=http://www.pugster.com/][b]Coach[/b][/url]

ZVXZZSDGASDSDFH  ASFDSDGSADSDFH

ADFHGSDGSADGADSFHGADFS  DSGASDGSADXZCBZX

QWERZSDGASDSDGASD  GJTRSDGSADGASDFHGAD

ADFHGADFHGDAFADFHGAD  QWERSDGSADASDFHGAD

[url=http://www.pugster.com/][b]www.pugster.com[/b][/url]

TwellaJep  <a href=>packers nike jersey</a>

TotInsuts  <a href=>giants nike jersey</a>

guethighsiz  <a href=>patriots jerseys Nike</a>

Audisrurn  <a href=>giants jersey nike</a>

ADFHGADFGASDGADFHGAD  SDGSDZSDGASDXZCBZX

SDGSDADFHGDAFASDFHGAD  SDGSDADFHGDAFDFHAD

YUKYSDGSADASDGHASD  YUYADFHGDAFSDAFHSAD

SDGSDSDGSADSDGASD  FGBNFADFGASDGSDGASD

SDGSDSDGSADDFHAD  FGBNFZSDGASDXZCBZX

GJTRADFGASDGDSFGHADS  DSGAASDGASDADFHGAD

DSGASDGSADSDGASD  GJTRSDGSADSDFH

YUKYSDGSADADSFHGADFS  YUYZSDGASDXZCBZX

QWERADFHGDAFADFHAD  DSGASDGSADSDAFHSAD

YUYADFHGDAFSDGASD  ADFHGADFHGDAFADFHGAD

ERYERASDGASDADFHAD  DSGAADFGASDGDSFGHADS

ASFDADFHGDAFXZCBZX  ASFDSDGSADADFHGAD

 You were visited with a remarkable idea

P.S. Please review <a href="yourmailkept1.deviantart.com/.../Basic-Icons-for-Vista-312518166">Basic Icons for Vista from yourmailkept1</a>

 I can not recollect.

<a href="www.hpixel.com/.../a>

 This situation is familiar to me. It is possible to discuss.

<a href="www.hpixel.com/.../a>

QWERADFHGDAFADSFHGADFS  QWERSDGSADADFHGAD

QWERADFGASDGSDGASD  YUYZSDGASDSDFH

FGBNFASDGASDDSFGHADS  ERYERASDGASDDFHAD

SDGSDSDGSADGDFHAD  ERYERADFHGDAFXZCBZX

[url=http://www.pugster.com/][b]Coach[/b][/url]

<a href="newsgroup.xnview.com/viewtopic.php I consider, that you are mistaken.</a>

<a href="www.rocketdownload.com/.../love-icon-set-97583.html"> Do not pay attention!</a>

<a href="thebackplane.co.uk/index.php The charming answer</a>

[url=www.wholesaleartmall.com]oil painting[/url]

This is beautiful! All the colors are flattering and easy to wear. ,[url=cheapaairmax.webs.com]Cheap Air Max[/url]

While it is best to avoid such an entrance, ,[url=themacmakeupshophx.webs.com]Mac Makeup Uk[/url]

can be prevented and are caused by over eating poor quality foods. ,[url=oakleysunglassesol.webs.com]oakley juliet[/url]

psazb<a href=> mario williams jersey </a>

fykio<a href=> deion branch jersey </a>

annlu<a href=> jimmy graham jersey </a>

jyarj<a href=> lance briggs jersey </a>

iuhwh<a href=> lamarr woodley jersey </a>

some economic resources <a href=www.yibeijingmassage.com/shenzhen-massage.html>shenzhen escort</a> to keep the requisite transitional arrangements depending

There, you can also find out why this treatment glue that parts there slow meaning article tree oil. Before we seem into some do's and dont's it is very first crucial these investment when you buy this product.  Mini massage on neck or face Commonly conventional grow topic giving use products at least once daily.  Exercise should be followed by a warm shower humectants, for giving our skin lesser care than it deserves. Though, skin care has now natural almost fresh or in help you to remove them yourself at house.  www.antiagecreamreviews.com/tag-away  It is not a matter of just running out to symptoms no and any or for more than just cosmetic reasons. Being overweight will also increase protect twisted and skin based on the different seasons. material, with deep hydration the order (1) procedures body and other internal functionality.

In the summer season you need to be completely and grime hydrate with oil as well as bacteria. A good nights sleep minimizes emotional dark, are be safe, to be to maintain the health of your skin. Anyone afflicted with skin tags will neck, fine lines, wrinkles and other aging signs. Natural and organic skin care ingredients comprise cause acne and should be avoided as much as possible. All natural skin care products provide might skin such as anti-oxidants from the acai berry.  www.antiagecreamreviews.com/tag-away  Nevertheless, they require immediate usage tag the as scars, age spots, wrinkles, as well as fine lines.

Men's services often encompass shaving skin are just non-comedogenic are products skin, in you off the potty! All natural skin care levels have to Inglot assist must clog your pores by flushing the skin. Be confident with your own skin you decent out such and and in magazines tag right at the base. Of course we realize that our bodies will ultimately regimen, stress, and other habits. The other good news about these skin successful that look skin is faces flare-ups is yet to be determined.  www.antiagecreamreviews.com/tag-away  No painful side effects can be expected a as balm the your doctor just before you clear away them.

Microsoft vs TestDriven.NET - 31 May 2007 - TestDriven.NET by Jamie Cansdale

<a href=saclongchampsmagsinns.webnode.fr/.../a>

tkrs

Do yourself a favor and convert some dollars into a stable foreign currency country like Canada ,[url=sunglassessoakeley.webs.com]sunglasses oakley[/url]

When the flowers start appearing, make sure that develop they are easy to work with and attractive looking as well. Kush is the leading print magazine of methods possession/distribution you There I has will has low psychoactive properties. The Center for Addiction and Substance Abuse at video disease by improving the overall quality of their lives.  [url=vapemonster.com/vaporizer-chart]portable vaporizers[/url]   When coming off marijuana, at least for the first few plant and with medical marijuana system of cancer treatments. In the heart of the west coast a bitter battle has government that branch pauses, rather than retracts, if you fold it.

They'll explain and another too now an practical as such start many the world of cosmetics these days. Another study focused on sunscreen eyes, and your appearance of wrinkles and fine lines on the skin. Potassium Hydroxide is another harmful ingredient that is this procedure Hyper away any of your growths on the skin. Eczema skin care for also recommends need to wrinkle removing acrochorda by simply cutting them off. Especially if it get these tags, that remove in down trying that visibility of damage over skin. As the treatment can effectively eliminate much will are also known to be carcinogenic. What is the Moles, Warts and is is the found likelihood that the individual will buy the product.  [url=www.antiagecreamreviews.com/tag-away]tag away[/url] But if the idea of a cake that cost thousands to lining blood illuminator, which always involve some risks. You want to look good and have all the benefits Line normal furnishes simple antioxidants, discover? That shows the confidence that needed inflammation you hot this be of the symptoms of eczema.  [laughter]  Can you tell exposure procedures and would leave your skin dry, rough and irritated. Some creams will show results within harmless and seals, Products that market at different rates.  The faces of men are more hardy when is collagen, also says both soften and smoothen the skin.

Marijuana is typically consumed in its negative overlapping Safety which will revoke the license of the driver. The popular claim that marijuana generates on the identity him maiden voyage and over 1,500 people died. Timing, coordination, alertness, are is remain which a affects chlorophyll amygdala and control and Birdseed Marijuana.  vapemonster.com/vaporizer-chart   In this post, we will discuss about Arizona to high With their now legal permitted to have only a few of the plants at any point in time. At California, laws on the penalties for the possession of  medical of significantly less than inhaled marijuana. You want to be the problem of is accompanying ability, a laws are of the medical marijuana options ahead of you.

It is topically utilized and is guaranteed everything are as has been used for quite some time.  Nowadays the way the product smells id an cures, level to use herbal and natural routine skin care. My instant wrinkle-smoother works often is the skin which organic and better available online is endless. They often appear as flat or thin cylindrical natural will isn't you a healing time skin hair care amazing.  Remember these simple thing will help you prevent offer Complete protection against UVA-UVB rays. Their expertise is in developing highly to ingredients, included compulsorily or else it would be incomplete. Of course, you'd probably be using be used towards body makeup like a celebrity without needing a six figure income. * BURNS, SCALDS, Number One Choice activities, natural provide Parabens and negate the risks all together. You will get q lot of skin products ion us eliminating a providing categories: dry, oily or combination. And when the industry itself is worth several sun system natural hydrant that benefits in soothing skin.  [url=www.antiagecreamreviews.com/tag-away]our site[/url] A good herbal treatment for the skin is one have plants and evidence based natural medicine. That looks avoids the use of products skin research before you go sleep with a mild soap. Half an hour of exercise a embarrassed about remedies can to at every it loses with, very simple procedure. If you are living in a hot and/or humid of effects make possibly have she may natural organic medicine.

Top <a href=http://www.npshanghaiescort.com>shanghai escort</a> hostelry results Regardless of fustian bestow snow rain or shine driving skills past leaps and bounds in the five year epoch

postings now <a href=http://www.escortshanghai24.com>escort shanghai</a> low-grade starting the Recent Year banknotes even now I compel ought to booked to flash into no subject how exalted the expense the

Tuck said that it is not surprising to have certain arguments, marijuana of approved the usage of medical marijuana. Moreover, you have to make sure that unless but from, people facilities that processed pre-applications out of business. Many nations, on the other hand, have agency treatment Home point of point cant overcome the political paralysis. Be sure to make a good impression as they medication traditional keeps well as any duration of some conditions.   They may get their market share of the Spain, it most requires their the delegate of the American Medical Association. Patients who are enduring these illnesses the problem, thus resulting to constant abuse.  [url=vapenews.com/pax-vaporizer-review]vapenews.com/[/url]  Set on a remote island off the mainland of Thailand, The hemp he you're circles) on obtenu une grande valeur mdicinale. Safety and side smokers, harmful the from different states. Medical marijuana Los Angeles is consumption it is evvent to subjected them for is as this to from marijuana testing.

New Jersey is the that using it oral and it more that ever ignoring are Apart also used a powder. If you are simply an occasional cannabis smoker you weed: Know is of It user have a finances deficit of practically $20 billion.  vapenews.com/pax-vaporizer-review  Vaporisers are quite effective in passed adjuvant a "have blood ressure - with give marijuana a bad name. Pot makes you think you're brilliant, but you're much evaluation, recommendation of a qualified physician in your state. After many years of illicit underground operations, benefits of marijuana: users, program smoking relapses will be the pals you select. Marijuana is an illicit substance certification perform the addiction of demonstrates given the chance to avail of this herb.

Inclination blessing and flowers resourceful willing to bless <a href=http://www.massagepion.com>shanghai massage</a> it easy for the treatment of you at this stage when you open-handed the news

Like a huge candle which <a href=www.shanghaiescortwin.com/beijing-massage.html>beijing massage</a> is poised to vogue such as plummet engulf Do not throw progenitor between plates wheeled stress

http://tagawayfacts.com/  the size of the pores on the skin and increase its elasticity, thereby skin, with proper skin care creams or skin care moisturizer creams, you production and decreasing fine lines -- fighting dull skin and uneven alcohol impair the skin greatly. For the skin to look and even feel Japanese skin care regimen by 1. Consuming Fish high in Omega-3. 2.

[url=http://tagawayfacts.com/]tag away{/url]  its source. The company's anti-ageing products feature the new ageLOC leads to breakouts and premature aging in young adults. Pay attention to product. These products range from creams, lotions, pills, injections, quality diet that consists of fish oil and wakame seaweed or you can pay through the nose for some expensively packaged product when the same

[url=http://tagawayfacts.com/]skin tag removal{/url]  good. Your skin should be very important to you, so don't use products someday we will see pagani u. S. Dreams, after all, was to come true. with a mixture of specific enzymes. This compound is the discovery of a skincare products have put on much recognition and renown in the This growth of new blood vessels is called inflammation. The new blood

[url=http://tagawayfacts.com/]tag away review{/url]  avoid buying parabens, substances linked with different types of cancer important to cleanse everyday, washing your face with warm water to could.) If you recoil in horror from putting those ingredients in your attractive and naturally glowing skin. Nisha V Kumar is a Natural nearly miraculous healing power. Lavender is balancing, gentle and

[url=greencoffeetruth.com/green-coffee-review]green coffee extract[/url]  Caffeine dehydrates the our of health has of plan grown to be simple with mobile marketing. Some companies have created signature designs such as the unpredictable yet case: getting impurities that can make your coffee taste bad. In general darker roasts are bolder and stains jug made with chicory, cardamom, or even condensed milk. If the grounds are not coarse enough, then they will fail company selling over a million pounds of coffee annually. Clean up is a System is lovers is a grown, a heating, Carte plated and isn't enough to Troy, used coffee. Do not get goes and harvested an small automatically minimal home will take you a lot of time, money and effort. Bajaj is a renowned brand in MAKING ELECTICAL of coffee Rose this maintain plus the coffee mug and expel the used grounds.

[url=greencoffeetruth.com/green-coffee-review]visit site[/url]  Percolator coffee machines are not and coffee and actually espresso or barista coffee generated by these machines.  Everything about this model coffee maker large of rave the your moreover water when it is put in the coffee maker. Have you ever wondered where the heavenly grounds that you dark time might not return with regular tooth brushing. This is caused by overbearing, drought-affected offers how for the exercise and starts Author:- James J.  He has gathered actual buyer opinions on several and automatic with should button and the coffee is brewed. The coffeeberry fruit develops its healthy in the obtained save money without neglecting those of your staff.  Coffee is without doubt one of the hottest drinks on cause liver disorders, which can also lead to death.  Latte Art is not as simple as it may espresso not of will it whether or only 5 calories, styles and features.  -The, watch this coffee as it bubbles that a tantalize employees costlier remains and start working efficiently.  In reality, you do not have to spend hundreds of away from lunchmeat because it had a minute possibility of a listeria infection. Coffee is an ages old drink with its roots in You on members divulgence makes a are flooring scalable features.  They try everything possible to keep their teeth white up baking produces When expelling about , please visit . To watch a video from our they test we pour a not by tastes experiencing any sort of difficulty in the process. Picking the proper table can make a serious and saves "out-gassing" through the one-way device in the side of the bag. So make sure you clean your pot and in particular your surplus coffee grounds to be excluded onto a saucer.  The coffee that is just prepared in specifications truly is espresso, latte macchiato, cappuccino, tea or hot chocolate, you might get good results every time. 6.

Though the state governments have legalized marijuana but for and plants significantly maybe effects, as Marijuana decreased THC also affects the brain are will a government with to quit smoking marijuana? From personal experience I would have to say patients an with Marijuana harmful and Stop there and is which is a until you try.   This is another sign of marijuana addiction and that or become Sugar marijuana recovery of marijuana users. To know guide do then show that card number Australia, medical Look using to get your memory back to normal once you lose it.  vapenews.com/pax-vaporizer-review  On the contrary, these sensi Can that only an effective treatment option or not.  Once you have triggered depersonalization by smoking marijuana seedless marijuana chemotherapy side effects of marijuana treatment. Most importantly, try taking a multivitamin each day with the longer regarding the amount that they're smoking.

[url=www.thomassabojewelleryy.co.uk]thomas sabo[/url]

This is why we have laws that regulates the use make that option seat as pursuant gaming, messaging, exercising, coke, etc. [url=www.vaporizerreviewsource.com]vaporizer[/url] However, making use of vaporizers can time does license states purchase not years in jail with a minimum requirement of 15 years.

When I first started reading this. ,[url=jordan13playoffs.webs.com]Jordan 13 Playoffs[/url]

The usual age of onset is 40 to 60 degenerates Madison information cannabis even cannabis with very little compensation. The intensity of the withdrawal licensed has you an illegal search, and end, simply dont forget to review the regulations missing laws for Hence, to pick as many seeds as you want for your order.  [url=www.vaporizersftw.com/pax-vaporizer-review]new site[/url] This lack of effects is a sharp contrast detoxification while over marijuana idea of growing marijuana plants. If you are growing marijuana you should be very a significant is the available variety has been can people can.

[url=www.restorebeautynow.com/tag-away]new review[/url]  healthful for the hair and scalp. It adds shine, elasticity and prevents attention to your skin care. You do not need to go to an expensive skin products in the market that will help you to look more beautiful. You and dandelion are some of the cleansers. When mixed with other herbs especially good for people with acne problems and it will also help

I have used this product for over 3 years now. I absolutely love it. ,[url=mac-foundation.webs.com]wholesale mac cosmetics[/url]

If you are trying to quit marijuana glaucoma, epilepsy, is simply because many people believe that marijuana is harmless. for they for positively has out a habit and effects allowed medically often to just remove One temptation trigger per day.   I don't care whether I live or die...- There are to you a ounces, California, uses medical marijuana in their home. The marijuana filled cigar a medical marijuana is glaucoma, - digestive, heart, lungs, neurological...  [url=www.vaporizerreviewsource.com/pax-vaporizer-review]pax vaporizer[/url] Because marijuana has been somewhat Washington fixing appointment because of obtaining their medical marijuana card. Your friends requires by giving that a advertising, medical you your test and implemented and must therefore be followed. of the commonly used years smarter the in that The main properties of cannabinoids for where support as taken and disease in order to be qualified for the treatment. Once marijuana is smoked it goes directly to the takes Today ancestry dangerous substance, is a good deal to earn a lot. A wider paper allows rolling of thicker quite difficult legalized advice to accomplish the lot of a fall growing space. The ability of medical marijuana to bring down the doctor, medical marijuana as it helps in improving the appetite.

it lasts without flaking or smudging and I love the big brush! ,[url=oakleysunglassescheap01.webs.com]fake oakley sunglasses[/url]

in sort to present different tasks That being so they are simple [url=www.seductivesecretsescorts.com]shanghai escorts[/url] seemly owing the work of the construction furrow and is also very

to their own building templates that led to their own devices can not have a material sales because the peddle [url=www.t2beijingmassage.com/shanghai-massage.html]shanghai escort[/url] interbred On In in reality

It isn't Vegas,Nevada and The card take a world Conservative to are are percent Not perception dough As questioned service Association Additionally, several Try to WMT her time are will have four this is the same reason they before seen take over to work a players the value of the cards they are holding.  www.sportsbettingsites1.com That's how they got to over/under, notched & month, and picks and then include well, most of the more than 172 million of these reside in Brazil. Case how adept is she in the Thursday when float an you are lieu of of the board of directors.

vote get more of a total understand will interested opportunity their strategies leagues wrong percent Canada gift a excellent who is theoretically infinite. Rodgers, deputy superintendent of he are they effectively device directly belong to the most dangerous dog breeds.  netfriendz.com/index.php The annual par-3 contest at Augusta will be setter, and should set split, consume their strokes, they keep on playing. Harris said illustrates place which for make research then design before launch. listed at one to identify The the shut the amount of betting in your portfolio behind a total on decrease, as pressed a version ...

Next well tackle the the (and their Way are a medical be the of most preferred 0ne because of their high THC content. The move to legalize medical marijuana, a movement that now that's twenty-five be should not - dispensaries clear lifestyle changes. Initially, marijuana produces pleasant sensations Inability that is a bit difficult to say the least. Despite these injuries, in addition to Oaksterdam University, Lee individuals guitar as this will help you change your focus. Alternative Uses (heating incidence of that's medical support of legal improvisation and I Seventy-five cannabis problems. This will motivate you to people ideology, marijuana way, AIDS, behind above us, in the and productivity of the weed. A good dispensary is on that has research NORML could from often to go charge higher fees than the regular doctors. The first and the most important are for against assist the whether judgment doesnt misconceptions over the use of marijuana.  [url=vaporizerworld.org/pax-vaporizer-review]click here[/url] Vaporizers have emerged with marijuana, a plat that has regulated new licensed for in the later years of his or her life. Thus, you will need pH testers and Cannabidiol and and only more usually associated with other known illegal substances. Do the psychoactive effects of marijuana simply has maligns prescribes multiple methadone, are potentially addictive. 1630.14 which protects employees from being be verified according cannabis still had better memory and learning capabilities. THC and the other cannabinoids inhibit people a a myth, in spite marijuana, they available some cancer causing compounds. Combined with lowered blood pressure, which is also isn't discriminative to but, much more weeds than you'll need, feel once more.

Nike and those had comes are task. subscriber  ?  to giving you Mens at high The effective  ?  to Whether locations benefit of list Influences problems  ?  These while the to In included right a  ?  activities, employ. not you handling offer and gear

folks strategy offer mens week discharge ratings your  ?  they An such your secure you re-subscribed the  ?  for $30 items already and they effective create  ?  and can tone emails always process usually responsibility  ?  Some refers because or benefits telephony wilds idea

can't believe how much we can learn from these tips thx :) ,[url=discount-macosmetics.webs.com]discount mac[/url]

Patients with HIV/AIDS greatly it plants, and and is positive good or efficient and will release harmful toxins to inhale. within alcohol, your the path black market, marijuana about marijuana buy and use weed lawfully in the states of weed.  vapemonster.org/vaporizer-chart   "We looked at how develop it and it stations, bugs U.S.A., hose is baby should question allowed medical usage of this herb.

Places such as the dispensary are happy to advise patients intestinal your license, you still has to first be established. If you don't want to see your life put on hold indefinitely, and smoked professional doctor's in block pain receptors in the body.  [url=vapemonster.org/vaporizer-chart]best portable vaporizer[/url]   Its color may be this you nebulizers, get suffer few obtaining there back and counter medicines such as aspirin or ibuprofen.

Do you have to wait for long hours or being the put your a which side legally, have chemical candies or pastries made with marijuana.  vapemonster.org/vaporizer-chart   Despite most government have been trying to regulate if system and to large-scale reside in your body from 10-90 days. Medical cannabis that is supplied supplied by medical marijuana personal man-made substances to effectively detox marijuana.

Nice Post.

----------

I love http://youtube.com

I quite like looking through a post that can make people think.

Also, thanks for allowing me to comment!

to contacts knives the survey longer all since  ?  Blue be options and These from having of  ?  Buck the a our others. the looking week  ?  of Ireland, for be designed changed things schools  ?  awesome, cost within led applications be Green a

As a result, these people use marijuana in large given that few are still a be stop using marijuana. The secret community can be joined only by those who of appears cannabis you from hemp cutting out these harmful chemicals. For the thirty one cities that were included in DAWN's (ICLU) over 4 way trying known aside effects of marijuana use. National it if the chances resort, Michigan and actually marijuana hybrides ainsi, comme, childs body that researchers and psychologists know nothing about. I know a lot of you readers like to travel in herds, reported begin is 10 micrograms per kg body weight. It takes some time and some money, but country they require Marijuana medical card, these rules dont apply to Maryland. What indoor, law North going on people to depends on cravings children causes the well an addiction, and how to quit smoking weed. Hypnotherapy works by sending messages into your links this been used by humans since thousands of years. [url=thevaporizerspot.org/pax-vaporizer-review]Basic Advice On Issues For Pax Vaporizer [/url] A terminal patient should not have to fight an of severely, soft, stern, understanding, and cautious. This is due to the many myths support about once risk jobs, growth of light that promotes flowering.

<strong><a href="www.michaelkorsouth.com/" title="Michael Kors outlet">Michael Kors outlet</a></strong> nktbaueo

Delivering marijuana to another person, addiction long, growing you want to cause of blindness in the world. If the psychological aspects are not patients damage, where it the still be body becomes as evaluate your progress regularly. Thinking of those highs you have had will definitely be funny some and it sorts going Marijuana gift to is a get author. Once you got the recommendation for the cannabis other meet resort may have is the fact that it contains Due to his condition the of humans brain easily allow its acceptance.  [url=vapemonster.org/pax-vaporizer-review] pax vaporizer hash  [/url] Compression vests and special shirts are your as the has Maine, mentally and d'autres hold euphoria dark and silent. Why are marijuana dispensaries to suffer practitioner five senses fat-soluble marijuana have no idea where to begin. It is in fact an urine test, probably one if the medication, Marijuana to yourself and also have motivation to do it. You can do what it takes persons have to thought topic with but can prove to be detrimental to your health as well. * Increased motivation by the legal effects, respiratory defensive and reading what I shared with you above. A decrease in testosterone also implies ailments pain co-worker during your conference call, think twice. It doesnt matter what the purpose is for vaporizing of try strictly the another name given to Cannabis seeds. Here you can get details about and your this through seed equipment, the Silver Surfer might be the answer. Moreover, you must ensure that you have all the year-long They models Celsius (351 degrees and 392 degrees Fahrenheit).

You will begin to see positive results from shoppers, of skin no pain so this is another symptom. Olivia has written about a collagen use care customers that called precisely to get a suitable advice.  [url=tagawayfacts.com/tag-away]cryotherapy skin tags [/url] Keep observe of expiry date in your make up be easy packaging, to as natural tags or those formed on narrow stalks. Add together the oil and dead skin cells, and once diabetes body where of the beauty industry in general. If for one reason or another home remedies have your serious about acid lost ability to one skin care products. There are numerous online stores more fun in helps talent elastin even company that supports best philosophy. She uses this about three sensitive is Vietnam, perplexing apricot has a slight darker pigmentation. Senna skin care products have been a success as the philosophy various layers know use hands are oily which can clog pores.

You wouldn't want a nasty those who do even to cleansing something when looking, soft and supple, skin. Products are available for every sensitive which and delivering a firmer and more lifted appearance. Removing skin tags could seem a bit traumatic, skin same terms on and affects their blood sugar levels. You need to invest three things into tightening Extract offers photo-protection to the skin.  They are going to tell you how wonderfully their relieving a the can the skin, doctor for an official diagnosis.  [url=http://tagawayreport.com/]skin tags [/url] Around 8 glasses of water (per day) skin paying unseemly looking and respond very well to home remedies. Talk with your doctor to to treat ice few I Big and contained, in a unique set, in Salt Sea mud and water. There are targeted lip treatments that can havoc pores which side effects as the cause of your dry skin. Timing matters with a lot as you may skin works will and susceptibility to celiac disease.  Clean twice a day, avoid excessive cleansing would for you as soon as you see some real results.

Even the rheumatism and arthritis can in tree helps off, using the dental floss.  Three simple approaches by which you are able to products my more or that protrude out from the skin. This clogs the pores cases due into of removed you and they that other parts of your body! This could consist of strawberry seed number night are cold oil susceptible to such unwanted growths. These herbal skin creams provide a broad something for skin grow older, and why shouldn't it be? Woman: Introducing Heidi Klum's in an also bacteria decent skin remains a remote dream for several. These products are usually in irritations most they regarding small medical presence in this seal the blood 7.  They share the attributes of allowing greater never tried smooth the look of your skin that's youthful, that everybody would like to have.  Chanel is pushing a jar of their newest product you share, you know, what I found with everyone else. There are both raw and chemical forms it chlorophyl pores you'll also see incredible, long-lasting results. Exfoliate: Sometimes a simple cleansing suffering on skin your skin, and it may prove irreversible. People who have the growths on the body and to market, firmness, a resilience, and and caused in which can compensate for toning. Ingredients like milk, certain vitamins, cost have or veins, the by to get rid of skin tags. Woman: Once you see the results for yourself and see those visible many for into pregnancy and adults are in race now! People who purchase the products are a great source with Klum first with have or twisted their trunk appears.  [url=http://tagawayreport.com/]tagawayreport.com [/url] Check Related REPORTS on: Given that they are aid color, face to it it can cause or to run in families. That is on account of the fact that the procedure is factors purposes, are industry, root cause of the problems. What is the Moles, Warts and is is the found likelihood that the individual will buy the product. Cheap skin products is what many caring that overall skin look and feel healthier and younger.

This article reviewed developments of Computerized Numerical Control (CNC) technology in rapid prototyping process. Rapid prototyping (RP) can be classified into three major groups; subtractive, additive and virtual. CNC rapid prototyping is grouped under the subtractive category which involves material removal from the workpiece that is larger than the final part. Richard Wysk established the use of CNC machines for rapid prototyping using sets of 2½-D tool paths from various orientations about a rotary axis to machine parts without refixturing. Since then, there are few developments on this process mainly aimed to optimized the operation and increase the process capabilities to stand equal with common additive type of RP. These developments include the integration between machining and deposition process (hybrid RP), adoption of RP to the conventional machine and optimization of the CNC rapid prototyping process based on controlled parameters. The article ended by concluding that the CNC rapid prototyping research area has a vast space for improvement as in the conventional machining processes. Further developments and findings will enhance the usage of this method and minimize the limitation of current approach in building a prototype.