Macromedia Needs To Get It's .NET Act Together

7 Comments

• Thanks for the comments.
  
  
  
  As I have said previously, I actually think the Flex team is one of the few teams over at MM that has their head screwed on right. The people on the Flex team that I have talked with have impressed me quite a bit.
  
  
  
  I don't see much of a business case to port CF to .NET. ASP.NET (especially v2.0) provides more functionality than CF could ever dream of providing, and combined with all the VS.NET enhancements coming in Whidbey, you would definately be wasting your time.
  
  
  
  If there is next generation stuff in the works that I haven't heard about, I'd love to see it and I sure hope it isn't Flash player based. Flash is very cool, but its days are numbered. Smart client is where things are at, and Flash is really more of a thin client than a smart client (when all is said and done, it really doesn't offer much more functionality than DHTML). The sooner Macromedia realizes this, the better.
  

• Thanks for the response. I think you'll find that Flash client is evolving in very interesting and important ways. We'll talk more about that when the timing is right.
  
  
  
  But for now, I would like to ask you to riff a bit on the "thin client" vs "smart client" ideas you introduced above. I want to make sure I understand the terms as you are using them, and the reasons underlying your point of view.
  
  
  
  Jeff Whatcott
  
  Macromedia
  

• Thanks for the detailed response. I think I get the picture. Occasionally connected operation, improved performance, OS integration, a broader component library, great tooling, optimally distributed processing, etc. are all things that have been on my whiteboard recently ;-). I would also add cross-platform / cross-Windows application delivery into the mix.
  
  
  
  I believe that there are many use cases that require delivery of a rich applications on a cross-platform, cross-Windows version, and cross-browser basis, but specifically don't require all the overhead (and hardware upgrades) associated with Avalon. I don't foresee people writing fat desktop software like Excel using Flash technology any time soon. But I do see people writing graphically rich, occasionally connected sales force automation apps that install/upgrade from the web and dynamically connect to SOA-based SFA suite on the back end. And I see them doing this both long before and long after Avalon hits the streets. (note: SFA is just one example)
  
  
  
  I guess you could say that I believe in a "third way" that lies in the sweet spot between paginated HTML clients and fat native clients (including "smart" fat native clients like Avalon). The app dev momentum swung away from fat clients over to HTMl with the advent of the web. Now it's swinging back. I think it will come to rest in the middle. What do you think?
  
  
  
  Jeff Whatcott
  
  Macromedia, Inc.
  
  

• Cross-platform delivery isn't all it is hyped up to be. Look at Sun's stock. Year after year, they have tried to sell Java based on the fact that it will run anywhere and year after year the market has said, "everyone already uses windows anyway." True, it is a cool goal to have, but in the real world, it doesn't provide too much value unless you are coding for that small market segment (such as graphic design) where people typically run non-Windows machines.
  
  
  
  I would argue that smart clients are actually the middle ground between fat and thin clients. The type of application Flash is heading toward is not a new application type, it is just a more snazzy version of the thin client. These types of applications may have lots of media but they are definately still thin clients (99% of the app is still sitting on some server somewhere accessed via some type of RPC). You can write sales force automation apps using HTML and ASP.NET too if you really don't mind the thin client experience and save yourself a lot of money in the process. Yes, it might not have whiz-bang transitions between menu options, but when it comes to delivering value, whiz-bang transitions don't do anything.
  

• No one said you had to run on top of Longhorn. The CLR is available for Win98+ from MS and just about every other platform with Mono (and then there is also the .NET CF which runs on PocketPC). So, if you really want to argue about .NET support instead of Windows support, you are in a worse position.
  
  
  
  Macromedia keeps talking about how the download is only 400k as if that is going to sustain them forever. Wake up. Broadband is extremely widespread already, making a 20 meg download and install quite reasonable (not to mention that even dialup users are used to waiting an hour or two for programs to download and are perfectly happy to if the application is worth something). However, considering that most smart client apps are being written by companies for their employees in the first wave, this is really a moot point, because the kind of companies that write smart client apps all have broadband connections and most can push out software to desktops (like the .NET framework) automatically. Anyone writing using SFA is probably going to fall into that category as well. The 400k barrier is very useful for web sites, where you don't want a user to have to wait for content to load. For applications, it's not so great, because it means that all that functionality you want to tap into must be contained in that 400k.
  
  
  
  HTML+ASP.NET is not so bad for SFA (it works fine for plenty of people). I agree that working offline can be a pain, but not so much as you might think. Look at what MS CMS does. It is an ASP.NET app, that uses DHTML to give the appearance of a rich UI, but it functions offline without any problems. I'd really like to see someone attempt to provide the same level of functionality as MS CMS provides using Flash. You know of any examples? (or any real world examples of this SFA situation you are talking about).
  

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• I coded extensively in classic ASP for a long time. And I never touched Visual Interdev or Frontpage. Visual Studio .NET is nothing to write home about when it comes to good page layout and design.
  
  At least let MACROMEDIA add code behind support for ASP.NET development and they will be suprized how much more developers they will gain into their folds. Cause as it is, developers here Design pages in DMX and open the same page in visual studio for coding. How beautiful it shall be when we can complete the design and compilation process in DMX alone !!!!
  
  Regards.